Gun bill takes fire
I wrote last weekend about S2081, a bill that would ban those who are ordered by a court into psychiatric treatment from purchasing guns.
That debate hit the Senate floor today, after a big lobbying push by Grass Roots North Carolina, which opposes the bill. The bill didn't die, but it got a bit weaker today in the mind of its sponsors.
First, if you need background on the bill, click here to listen to its sponsor, Sen. Tony Rand, explain the thing.
Here's the run down on what happened next: the bill got three amendments. Two were fairly technical and there was pretty much no disagreement.
But Amendment #1 by Sen. Phil Berger of Rockingham changed the measure substantially. If you're a gun rights activist, you'd say it stopped an over-reach. Rand said it left a big loophole.
The debate centers on this: people in North Carolina can be ordered by a court into outpatient treatment. Gun rights folks, including Berger, said that if someone isn't committed to a hospital they're not dangerous to themselves or others.
Rand argued that court-ordered mental treatment is a pretty good indication that something is wrong enough with someone they shouldn't be buying a weapon.
Click here for Berger's opening salvo on the amendment.
And click here for Rand's answer.
There was more debate, but things eventually rolled back around to Berger, who answered back to Rand.
"I think throwing around the concept mentally ill in an effort to try to create an emotional fear with reference to what's going on here is a very easy thing to do. But mental illness can be a very broad term, and it doesn't necessarily deal with things that result in people acting in a dangerous manner. It doesn't," Berger said. Click here for more.
Of course, Rand had an answer, including: "I quite smoking. I probably had a nicotine disorder. The only thing I was dangerous too was a cigarette or a cigar ... Or I might be dangerous to a Twinkie, but not to any of you. But this is a deadly serious matter as we talk about someone who has a mental illness, they have to be found to have a mental illness and it has to rise to a point where action is taken by others to make sure they get treated."
Then things got wonky.
Sen. Doug Berger, no relation to Phil, one of the Senate's more liberal members, made a libertarian argument for adopting the amendment - saying that the state shouldn't infringe on a constitutional right. Click here to listen to the other Berger.
It went on like that for quite a while. Click here for the end of the amendment on the debate, which features Doug Berger and Tony Rand going at it pretty good.
The Senate voted to adopt the amendment 30-19.
Notable yes votes (local and otherwise): Stan Bingham of Davidson, U.S. Senate candidate Kay Hagan of Greensboro, Dan Clodfelter of Charlotte, David Hoyle of Gaston, and R.C. Soles of Tabor City.
Notable no votes: President Pro Tempore Marc Basnight, Katie Dorsett of Greensboro, and Treasurer candidate Janet Cowell and Lt. Gov. candidate Walter Dalton.
Click here for the full vote on the amendment.
The bill itself passed unanimously and it has crossed over to the House.
Reps. Pricey Harrison and Rick Glaizer are handling the bill on the House side. Harrison told me that she thought the House might make an effort to change the bill back. Look for action on that next week.
Update: Click here for a release AG Roy Cooper sent out on the day's action.
After the jump, AP's take on things.
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From our friends at the Associated Press:
- By WHITNEY WOODWARD
Associated Press Writer
RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) _ Any person who has been committed to mental health treatment and deemed a threat by the courts would be barred from buying a gun under a proposal approved by the Senate Thursday.
The measure, which was unanimously approved, would require court clerks to report to a federal database the names of all people who have been involuntarily committed by the courts to inpatient or outpatient mental health treatment.
The National Instant Criminal Background Check, or NICS, is used by gun vendors to conduct background checks on would-be buyers. Those listed are barred from purchasing weapons.
But a provision pushed by Senate Minority Leader Phil Berger, R-Rockingham, limited the scope of the mandate by specifying that only people who have been deemed a threat to themselves or others would be reported to that FBI-maintained database.
"We need to make sure that when we're dealing with people's Constitutional rights ... (that) we are carefully crafting the legislation to meet the problem," Berger said when arguing for the change. "The language in the bill that would have every involuntary commitment - whether inpatient or outpatient - for those individuals to automatically be reported and ineligible to acquire a firearm, reaches too far."
Berger's amendment was approved on a 31-18 vote, after a sometimes-heated debate where opponents urged lawmakers to err on the side of caution.
Any person with a mental illness that's severe enough to require a judge to order treatment should not be able to buy weapons, said Sen. Martin Nesbitt, D-Buncombe, when arguing against Berger's change. The individual's condition could deteriorate to a point where they become dangerous - particularly if they're living in the community as an outpatient and then stop participating in treatment, he said.
"We can't let people who are going through these kinds of troubled waters go and buy a gun," Nesbitt said.
Berger questioned what diagnoses could prompt a commitment order. The book of mental disorders used by psychologists and psychiatrists to make diagnoses lists nicotine-related disorders and eating disorders, he said.
The ensuing debate about what constitutes a mental illnesses drew a sharp objection from Senate Majority Leader Tony Rand, D-Cumberland.
"This is not a silly subject. This is deadly serious about people purchasing firearms, and who you want to have them," Rand said. "And the question is, is the individual's right superior to society's right? Because if your loved one gets killed by somebody that's been involuntarily committed and goes and buys a gun, it ain't my fault."
The chamber approved another change from Berger which eases the process by which a person who has been involuntarily committed could petition to have their name stripped from NICS.
Under the plan, enrollees would need to show a "preponderance of the evidence" that they no longer suffer from the condition that garnered them the commitment. That legal term is less stringent than a previous draft, which called for people do show "clear and convincing" evidence that they no longer suffered from a mental illness.
Attorney General Roy Cooper has pushed for lawmakers to make NICS reporting mandatory. Doing so would fix a "glaring loophole" in state hole which was exposed by the April 2007 Virginia Tech campus shooting, he said.
Shooter Seung-Hui Cho was able to purchase guns in Virginia after being committed to outpatient treatment by the court. His name was not entered into the FBI background check database.
The plan now heads to the House for consideration. The chamber must approve the bill before it can be sent to Gov. Mike Easley's desk.
Comments (1)
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I don't know how you stand it.
Posted on July 11, 2008 8:26 AM