Crowded classrooms
You hear it often from parents, teachers and school administrators: School X has too many students and not enough seats.
But what are the most crowded schools in Guilford County? And what schools have empty seats? We thought we would find out:
Basically, the bigger the number, the more crowded a school is. If the number is negative, then the school is under capacity. Schools with the (M) symbol are magnet schools, meaning they draw students from across the county, not just from a neighborhood attendance zone.
SCHOOL OVER/UNDER
CAPACITY
Northwest High 471
Southwest High 436
Oak Ridge Elem 413
Northeast High 392
Southeast High 347
Northwest Middle 340
Florence Elem 307
Summerfield Elem 270
Stokesdale Elem 246
Dudley High 226
Grimsley High 214
Jesse Wharton Elem 203
Jamestown Middle 198
Pilot Elem 191
Allen Jay Middle 186
Smith High 163
Colfax Elem 157
Guilford Middle 156
Madison Elem 154
Southeast Middle 151
Western High 129
Allen Middle 126
Southwest Middle 121
Morehead Elem (M) 118
Kernodle 106
Shadybrook Elem 104
Ragsdale High 97
Eastern High 92
Millis Road Elem 90
Page High 86
Laughlin Primary 80
Oak View Elem 73
Northwood Elem 71
Hunter Elem 63
Jones Elem (M) 62
Jefferson Elem 49
Irving Park Elem 46
Guilford Primary 44
Frazier Elem 43
Parkview Elem (M) 38
Gibsonville Elem 37
Union Hill Elem 36
Brooks Global (M) 33
Mendenhall Middle 33
Claxton Elem 32
Northeast Middle 29
Peck Elem 29
Peeler Elem (M) 23
Alamance Elem 21
Eastern Middle 15
Southern High 9
Murphey Traditional (M) 5
Sedgefield Elem -3
Jamestown Elem -5
Pleasant Garden Elem -11
General Greene (M) -14
Aycock Middle -16
Monticello Brown Summit -20
Nathanael Greene -23
Oak Hill Elem -32
Southern Elem -33
Allen Jay Elem -34
Southwest Elem -35
Foust Elem -36
Bluford Elem (M) -40
Cone Elem -44
Joyner Elem -45
Rankin Elem -48
Sternberger Elem -49
Brightwood Elem -52
Archer Elem -56
Kirkman Park Elem -56
Alderman Elem -57
Sedalia Elem -59
Ferndale Middle -60
Hairston Middle -69
Penn-Griffin Middle (M) -88
Lindley Elem -102
Wiley Elem -103
Hampton Elem (M) -118
Falkener Elem (M) -126
Montlieu Elem (M) -131
Erwin Elem (M) -135
Fairview Elem -139
Gillespie Park -142
Jackson Middle -148
Vandalia Elem -158
Guilford Middle (Elem division) -167
Sumner Elem -185
Triangle Lake Elem (M) -199
Bessemer Elem -209
Kiser Middle -211
Welborn Middle -220
Andrews High -228
Washington Elem -246
HP Central High -249
Johnson St. Elem (M) -260
Brown Summit Middle (M) NA
A few notes on this chart: Many of the elementary schools at the bottom of the chart (the ones with the most empty seats) are low-income schools where the district has made a conscious effort to have smaller classes. So even though these schools have empty seats, enrollment is being kept down for academic reasons, since research shows that small classes in the early grades help poor kids get off to a good start.
Also, this chart reflects only current conditions. It doesn't include seats that are going to be added through the $300 million bond voters approved last year. That bond money will greatly help many of the most crowded schools.
Comments (20)
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Bruce, have the magnet programs been undone at the HP Schools? I didn't see any M's by them. I thought maybe there was a big announcement today that I missed.
According to your chart, HP Andrews and HP Central are under utilized. Is this due to a migration of students away from these schools or an exception to the rule of "if you build it they will come?" In High Point the sentiment could be if you build it and they don't come, then we shall force them to come.
Posted on November 5, 2004 11:27 PM
Tatersnmaters:
How does your garden grow? All kidding aside.
Going back to 1999 and redistricting....ask Anita Sharpe. This was the case. The school board put all the seats in Andrews in a landlocked school. She wanted them in the county where seats were needed. She has said this publicly on many occasions. The powers that be in HP had all the control in 1999. I was sat through many of those mapping meetings with my neighbors. The final answer at Weaver Center when redistricting maps were drawn was given by the Central Rep. The question was, "How many student are you losing? Just give me an estimate?" The answer given was,"ZERO". The crowd stood up and roared. That was the last straw. Seems like Old HP controlled everyone then and still is.
And they wonder why the city is divided?
They wonder why people are continually moving out and housing are losing market value by the minute?
People want to know where their children will attend school.
There is nothing wrong with ideas to solve problems, but it takes a big person to admit that just maybe you made a little mistake - a little too rushed - a little underfunded - a little too unaccepted by the community. Do you think so?
Posted on November 6, 2004 4:00 PM
I'm curious: if the school system were to put more students in the schools with the lowest class sizes, would this redistribution help the situation or would continued "white flight" simply destroy their efforts?
Posted on November 6, 2004 4:23 PM
Billy,
Obviously, you have not been involved in this as long as I have and have not been part of much research and data that is fact.
In 1999, both black communitities and white communities wanted neighborhood schools when the Guiding Principles were established. Safety studies were done and test run of distances to get to schools. Unlike GCS who refused to do virtual runs this summer of bus rides and did not tell parents the truth about the times it would take to get to schools, there are many parents out there who do actually conducts studies and do research. I have heard GCS do "as the crow flies" distances. Parents did actual research and studies. Does 4 hour bus rides the first day of school sound familiar to you? Does this sound like GCS did their homework? GCS posted in writing bus times which were not correct. Little children were left unattended at HUBS. Kids just had their Guardian Angels with them that day and were lucky to get home.
This is just one issue. Parents feel they have a right to choose where to live, buy a home and go to school. This is America. Also every school in Guilford County should be good and safe and free of violence and have A/P courses and great teachers, resources, etc. Just to make "no suspension rate" look good on paper does not solve the problem. This county is too vast and there is much disparity among the schools. Why is this? Why did it take this county 17 years to build a school (Pilot Elementary)? To outsiders who moved in, this is just unbelievable! Why have parents been turned away as volunteers at Andrews - both SW parents last year and their own Andrews' parents this year. I just don't understand this. Why would any school refuse to have parents in it to help? Involved parents is a primary factor to succesful schools.
It is obvious to me that your assumptions are based on what an expensive PR campaign can buy in the newspapers. You don't know the schools, parents or children involved. You are fixated on this "race" thing which is not the problem. You have no "ears". You are hearing what you want to hear from people you want to hear it from.
I would stick to your poetry because it is clear to me you have no clue as to the many issues at stake here.
Posted on November 7, 2004 9:26 AM
tatersnmaters,
No, the school board has not undone the High Point reassignment plan -- believe me, we would have written about that!!
But for the purposes of this document, GCS didn't classify High Point Central, Andrews and Southwest high schools as magnet schools.
Sometimes, the school system classifies these schools as "high school options." Other times, such as when the school system applied for a federal grant, they are classified as magnet schools.
They've never the difference between the two categories exactly clear, but it this case, it's just semantics, because both terms have been used to describe the High Point high schools.
Posted on November 8, 2004 11:39 AM
Barbara Ann and Taters can find plenty of blame for the overbuilt seats in High Point. They will blame Dot Kearns and Kris Cooke until the cows come home, but the facts do not support them. Skip Alston struck the deal with Dewey Tedder and Pam Allen to build seats where "HE" wanted them. They caved in and the rest is history. Dot, Kris, Darlene, Alan and Anita could not override this as the bully of the playground, Dewey, would not let it happen. Back then, all the deals were done by Dewey in the back room!
Posted on November 8, 2004 12:46 PM
Bruce,
I guess then since the High Point High Schools are not classified and "Magnets" and GCS administration would be laughed out of town if they dared to call them "Options", that they better come up with another category for these World-Class Schools. Oh, oh, I know, how 'bout calling them the: "No Choice" category.
Posted on November 8, 2004 1:57 PM
That's a great point. It's really not fair to blame the current school board (or give them credit, depending on your point of view) for the 2000 school bond because the make-up and political dynamics of the board have changed so much.
Current board chairman Alan Duncan wasn't even on the board when the decisions were made about the 2000 bond. Kris Cooke and Dot Kearns were, but they didn't have much political clout at the time.
For years, a six-person voting bloc determined the direction of the board. But Susan Mendenhall is the only board member left from that group.
There's no doubt that the 2000 bond built seats in schools where they weren't needed, largely in an effort to spread the wealth and win votes. Many people complained at the time that fast-growing areas, such as northwest Guilford, weren't getting enough bond money.
The other side of the coin is that Guilford County hadn't passed a school bond since 1979 and the most recent bond, proposed in 1994, went down in flames. The school board, at the time, felt it had to have a bond package that could win over voters in Greensboro and High Point. And board members felt they had to get the bond passed. So they made some compromises for the sake of getting the bond passed.
Posted on November 8, 2004 2:14 PM
Ry, guess what the cows just came home. Unfortunately these cows do not say "eat more chikin" like the fast food restaurant. The cows just came home in the form of a letter to all the parents of Guilford County stating that the Guilford County School system has FAILED to make AYP for a second year in a row.
I think this lofty goal was achieved thanks to the leadership of the two individuals you like to support.
It is very unfortunate that a letter dated October 28 was not distributed until after the election. If either of the 2 victorious incumbents honestly cared about the children of Guilford County they would submit their resignations at the next Board of Education meeting.
Unfortunately for the children of Guilford County their egos will prevent them from doing the right thing. Instead the children are going to be the benefactors of 4 MORE YEARS of being cork screwed into the ground.
Posted on November 8, 2004 8:37 PM
Ry,
Thank you for that insight into 1999 politics. I had always read about the "Block of Six" and it being broken up later on. I just move here from a superb school system in Virginia in 1996 and was in shock when I saw the lack of school facilities here and all the trailers. So I was very "green" then about the school board and local politics of the South.
My point has always been this: Why should the children of today endure being put in a forced lottery because of unnecessary seats that the School Board put in and wasted taxpayers' money?
I have heard Anita Sharpe comment many times about those unnecessary seats. Before the vote on Black Tuesday, I heard Darlene Garrett address this fact also. I admire Darlene so much because she does her homework, listens, has common sense and the courage to speak up. Anita the same.
Marti Sykes replied to Darlene's inquiry with a comment something like, "I wasn't around on the School Board then." WHAT KIND OF A LAME EXCUSE IS THAT???
Are our kids able to say, we weren't in the school system then, so why are we the ones put in this lottery in 2004? Just because you weren't there then, you can read school board notes of meetings and do your homework.
I will say this in all fairness about Kris C, she asked some good questions about busing before the vote and then what happened??? Remember the stated times and cost by the School Administration? Remember the first day of school and kids being lost and on 4 hour bus rides?
Now Kris has stated publicly at the UNCG forum and on another website that she is reviewing the lottery plan. I hope she stands by her word for the sake of our children.
TATERSNMATERS: I am appalled that this letter just arrived. This could have definitely influenced the elections. I am confirming with my daughter tomorrow am when she received this letter. UNBELIEVBLE!!! Then again, based on past correspondence from GCS and the busing times and cost presented that were not true, not a surprise either. I am livid over this.
Posted on November 9, 2004 1:03 AM
Bruce,
Some light relief - sorry if this is not "education" - my friend wanted me to post this so we can practice for karioke on Friday. Singing and beer. She thought "My Way" was appropriate - except the part that the end is near - only the continuing saga for many parents with the School Board. It is the "Never ending story". Rest of lyrics apply. Thank you, Frank. You would be proud of us parents. We did it "Our Way"!
And now, the end is near;
And so I face the final curtain.
My friend, I’ll say it clear,
I’ll state my case, of which I’m certain.
I’ve lived a life that’s full.
I’ve traveled each and ev’ry highway;
And more, much more than this,
I did it my way.
Regrets, I’ve had a few;
But then again, too few to mention.
I did what I had to do
And saw it through without exemption.
I planned each charted course;
Each careful step along the byway,
But more, much more than this,
I did it my way.
Yes, there were times, I’m sure you knew
When I bit off more than I could chew.
But through it all, when there was doubt,
I ate it up and spit it out.
I faced it all and I stood tall;
And did it my way.
I’ve loved, I’ve laughed and cried.
I’ve had my fill; my share of losing.
And now, as tears subside,
I find it all so amusing.
To think I did all that;
And may I say - not in a shy way,
No, oh no not me,
I did it my way.
For what is a man, what has he got?
If not himself, then he has naught.
To say the things he truly feels;
And not the words of one who kneels.
The record shows I took the blows -
And did it my way!
Posted on November 9, 2004 10:11 PM
Well, my musical tastes tend to run more toward Pearl Jam than Frank Sinatra, but thanks!
And I'd like to take a minute to welcome Barbara Ann to The Chalkboard. She's one of the Triad's most prolific bloggers and follows education issues as closely as anyone. Glad you found us!
Posted on November 9, 2004 10:27 PM
Bruce,
You make me laugh. Had to throw a little break in there. Now today all the parents are livid about getting that letter just recently about Title I and Guilford County failing AYP's.
I went to the Community Dialogue in Education Group this morning in East Greensboro. Parents are not happy campers. The parents who attended the meeting this morning just received their letters Monday. Now the Board of Education is having a meeting tomorrow a.m. on Eugene Street. Many parents work and some do not have transporation so they cannot make it. I too have two other meetings tomorrow.
One parents addressed the PR lady from Guilford County Schools Central Office why they only had two days notice about this meeting. I can't repeat an exact word in writing here something like what the #@?#%! is that. You get the point. No, no one is happy about the "timely" notice.
Once again, not much notice for the parents who will be effected by this the most. It is very frustrating to these parents to say the least.
Conincidently, the letter was dated 10/28/04 and SWH got their letters Friday afternoon. They were delivered by courier Friday morning to the school. How convenient is that, Bruce? A few days after the elections. What a coincidence. Darn and my friend told me SOS had more ad money.
Take care Bruce. I am ever aware of the issues.
Barbara Ann
Posted on November 10, 2004 12:24 AM
Barbara Ann,
I was simply asking a question? But rather than offer any insight you choose to grill me. While it may be that you are more knowledgeable in school matters your insistence on fighting with everyone will get you nowhere. Answer my question: If the Administration moves students to schools with smaller classrooms in poorer neighborhoods will "white flight" simply void their efforts?
You, Barbara Ann, are part of the problem, not the solution. I personally see neighborhood schools as the best way to go but you'd rather attack me and others simply because we ask questions, than actually work to solve our problems.
Remember, Barbara Ann, I vote too and your causes will never get my vote until you treat me with the respect I deserve. Now answer my question or simply avoid it by attacking those who ask questions. Remember: My vote might be the one that gets your cause over the top.
Posted on November 11, 2004 7:28 AM
Taking your numbers, let me point out who is receiving money from the 2003 bond-- keep in mind that the new 'north' hs/ms will help with overcrowding at both NW and NE-- not correct, but help
Northwest High 471-recieved $12M in 2000-- still way over capacity
Southwest High 436-money from magnet fiasco
Oak Ridge Elem 413-(2000 bond-leftover money)
Northeast High 392--receiveing money leftover 2000 bond
Southeast High 347-not sure ?
Northwest Middle 340-no help
Florence Elem 307-on the 2003 bond
Summerfield Elem 270-no help
Stokesdale Elem 246-using leftover 2000 bond money
Dudley High 226-2000 bond money, will be under capacity when opened
Posted on November 11, 2004 1:44 PM
Billy,
You are certainly entitled to your "opinion" as I am to mine.
With regard to "white flight" if you study any metropolitan area in this country, this is how it is. You cannot stop "white flight". People move to another district; people send their children to private schools. I have found in North Carolina that many, many people simply choose home schooling. A new concept to me coming from a thriving, one of the best in the country school districts in Virginia Beach.
I believe in the public school system for many reasons. My husband now does not and if he had to do it over again would have put our daughter in private school. This is not me. I choose to right the wrong where I see it and work for kids.
There is data that does indeed prove that smaller classrooms work. However, PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT is the number one factor for success in schools. How do you get parents involved? Good question. You tell me.
How can we expect parents to get involved when they have two days notice to go to a day meeting about Title I and the "parent volunteers" have already been selected when they get there. Parents get discouraged. Meetings are set during times and places that are not best for many parents.
With regard to smaller classrooms, we read about the governor coming to visit in a class of 18 and how great this is. I have been substitute teaching for 5 years. I have never and I stress the word NEVER had a class with say less than 23 or so. The average is at least 24 and more likely 27. The second week of school, I worked in a Title I school that had 30 kids, 4th grade -- no assistant. There was no art or music teacher at this school. The teacher morale is there was very low. They couldn't get a "break" because there were two "specials" the kids did not have. You stayed with the kids at lunch -30 kids - I ate in 5 mins. You couldn't leave for the bathroom. A teacher told me the first week of school every female had a urinary tract infection. This is reality; not the schools where the governor visits "18". This is why I get angry when I see the low teacher morale. Great teachers want to stay and help but the just can't handle but so much. We are losing them faster than rats leaving a sinking ship. I have learned that teachers leaving aren't reported until 6 months. No wonder the data looks "good" depending on who you listen too. THEY ARE EVEN LASTING 6 MONTHS AT SOME SCHOOLS. At the school where I had 30 kids, a 4th grade male teacher just walked out and left the kids with no teacher.
I know how it really is in the schools. Are you in them weekly? One just gets tired of reading about "prizes and awards" and a few incidences where things are working, but others know the truth in our schools. And yes, I get angry when I see kids who aren't getting a fair shake. I get angry when I see teachers unappreciated who are so dedicateed to kids.
As for "arguing" - I think when 5 people attack someone on another website, they have a right to "argue". Even a cornered rat strikes out.
Posted on November 12, 2004 7:14 AM
Billy,
p.s. about "your vote" getting "my cause" over the top. I think not. You don't know "my cause". The issues are too many to list here. I am involved in several community action groups. The HP Choice Plan is just one problem. There are many, many, many more that I am concerned with. Don't think your vote or mine will count as many things never get to a "vote". Things are decided for us by a panel of 11 with some not caring about parental input.
On the other hand, because of all the mistrust of the School Board, it will be a long time before this county accepts a bond for kids again. Who looses out on this? Once again the kids get the short end here because of politics and the mistrust that has build up in this county.
The biggest mistake of the School Board on many issues is "no community buy-in".
I think they have learned this the hard way.
Posted on November 12, 2004 7:29 AM
Debora,
Thank you so much for sharing those capacity numbers vs bond money. Of special interest is the number for Dudley and will be under capacity????
Sounds like what they did to Andrews in 1999. Build the seats and force people to come.
Looks like the "Pilot" plan that started in High Point is "Coming soon to a theater near you."
Since it is such a wonderful, innovative idea and will make all schools "equal", I am sure that Greensboro can't wait to hop on the train to Lottery Land.
It can help Dudley average out all their test scores too to look good. Remember all those A/P courses and the testing results after the tests for college credit were taken? Sounds like help will be on the way soon to make those scores look better and average out.
Posted on November 12, 2004 11:00 AM
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