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I feel a successful student would make it on either system. As you mentioned, the key is strong parenting and dedicated teachers as part of the formula for success.

At first, our family was skeptical of block scheduling because it was new to us. I can say that my daughter has adjusted very well, but she was very successful on a traditional schedule too. The block scheduling is more like college; also you have fewer books to carry around; it's more focused; and it is great to have the tests finished before Christmas holiday.

One disadvantage is when it comes to a subject like a foreign language or a higher math which rely heavily on building on what was previously learned it is a little more difficult. If you haven't had say, Latin, in over a year, you have to do a lot of reviewing on your own. If you have a language all year round, you don't have this problem.

Regardless, I think the entire school should be on the same type of scheduling even if they have 9th grade academies. Everyone should be changing classes at the same time to help maintain order.

Thanks Barbara Ann,
I am hoping for more specifics-- not having a child in HS yet, here is what I see.

block makes for fewer class changes, less chance of violence in hallways(this from teachers)

longer lessons per day (good and bad, had a friend as a senior at Page say that he like it, since 30 minutes of the period he could do homework --- not good use of instructional time)If teachers use time wisely it might be good; I guestion if 9/10th attention span can absorb things for 90 minutes without a break

if you take AP; seems like you would do better on tests for credit if you didn't have a long gap between the class and the test. In block if you are finished in Dec and don't test until May; is that a problem? Remember next year, they won't finish before the Christmas break with school starting late (at least that is my memory of the schedule)

More chance for electives on block? I'm not sure that is true since if you take band you have to take it both blocks so that is actually 2 electives instead of one.

Anyway; just some thoughts; hoping for input from lots of people. The new high school hasn't decided which schedule to use. I would like to have some overall view before that happens so I can have informed info.

Debora is right about next year's schedule.

The state legislature passed a bill requiring school to start no earlier than Aug. 25. In most N.C. school districts, including Guilford County, school has been starting around Aug. 10, give or take a couple of days.

That bill was designed to give families a longer summer together. But it may hurt schools on the block schedule, since kids won't be able to take their exams until after Christmas break.

Even if it doesn't hurt student performance, high school students won't be able to fully relax during the break, since they'll have these exams hanging over their heads when they get back.

Debra,

With regard to A/P classes that end in Dec. and you test in May. My daughter had some ending in Dec. and some that will end in May. At SW, the teachers/counselors set up review classes for a week or two before the tests in May. These review classes are after school, a very organized schedule so kids who took several classes can attend as many as they want. They cover the classes that ended in Dec. as well. This is an excellent tool offered to all the kids who took A/P. Most A/P students who are successful in their classes have tons of notes they took and use those also to study from.

Btuce,

Regardless if exams aren't until after Christmas, if you are taking higher level classes, sometimes there is required reading to do before the next semester. It feels like they never really get much of a break.

I do like the tests before Christmas, but this year the Christmas break occurred in the middle of a week and really messed up a lot of folks' vacation plans to go ut of town so they could fit the tests in. But the bottom line is this, if you were lucky enough to have a great teacher and learned all year, you either know it or you don't, no matter when the test is given. Cramming doesn't help.

I know that both block and traditional have pros and cons. However, for our family block has been wonderful.
My daughter was on traditional her freshman year and block in her 10th - 12th grade years. She took honors and AP courses. The 9th grade year was really tough with so many classes. The first night of her freshmen year, she was up way past midnight doing homework that she started immediately upon arriving home. The years that followed were much better. The teacher actually had time to start and finish a lesson - 50 minutes is really not much time.
My son is in the 9th this year and on block. Improvements have happened. Because block was new with my daughter, there were some things that didn't work and needed to be tweaked. For example, she couldn't take but one foreign language each year. Now, with my son, he can take 1 each block if he wants to. The same is true with other subjects as well.
I also think that it allows teachers and students a little more opportunity to build relationships. There is time to "communicate" with each other instead of just rushing through the lesson.
The block schedule also makes it easier if the student participates in extracurricular activities.
For our family, the block schedule provides many postitves!

Being on block system in my opinion, adds alot of unnecessary stress to our high schoolers. Lets say you had 2 AP classes in the fall and 2 in the spring. Since AP are national exams and only given once a year in the spring, your child is now not only keeping up with his/her regular work assignments, but also preparing before school (review sessions), during school, and after school (more review). This makes for a very hectic schedule and alot of pressure to prepare for these difficult exams. I think a traditional year long schedule is much more effective for all levels of classes, since the students would be immersed in the subject matter every day leading up to the exams. I think this is part of the reason that Grimsley and Northwest fare much better on AP scores than the high schools on block.

There is another downside to block that no one seems to talk about. We have students struggling in CP classes in every school. These students may be at risk of reaching a maximum frustration level and dropping out. Why do we think that condensing the classes and asking teachers to get through them in 4 months as opposed to the full school year is helping anything?? It would seem to be common sense that students would perform better if given more time to grasp material, study it a little more in depth, or perhaps in English - have the time to do more papers and learn research skills that will truly help them in college.

As the parent of a college freshman, my child, along with her peers, cruised easily through her hs classes (including AP), got A's in most cases, and then most did not pass the AP exams. These same students had high SAT's, graduated in the top 5% of their class. Now in college they are finding that they lack study and writing skills so important at the college level.

How did this happen?? In my opinion, they are so rushed to get through material that they learn it for the "moment" and then forget it and move on to the next information of the "moment". When it comes time for the AP tests, they are preparing for too much at one time.

I would think that students enrolled in any level classe and having difficulty, would become more frustrated when trying to grasp the material in such a short time. I think we are especially doing these students a diservice by continuing with the block system. I truly believe this is adversely effecting our test scores.

For these reasons I say drop block, take some of the stress away. Heaven forbid our kids actually have some time to pursue an interest or sport that they enjoy!!

I think you hit one of my thoughts. It seems like some of our high schools (Bruce did a report last summer I think) have many kids making A/B's in AP but the vast majority aren't passing the college credit. Are they really covering the material? Are the kids mature enough to understand and grasp and learn/retain the knowledge? Are we being fair to students that are taking these AP classes yet they arent doing well enough for college credit. Remember these are still kids.

At the last BOE meeting, the principal of Western said that 1/3 of his students going to college had to have remedial classes. He clearly saw this as a problem.

I would agree that many students can't truley learn the material in a 4 month period. Of course, I don't remember Calculus after 30 years either, but we do expect more of our students than when I was in school. I believe block is actually about 30 hours(total) less instructional time per subject than traditional.That doesn't take into consideration that many teachers don't 'teach' the entire time. Thanks for the input, and hopefully we will hear more!

Sandys point on WRITING skills (or lack of them) is key.

As far as block vs. traditional, it seems what works well for one family/student might not for the next. My family has had more time for extra activities where as Sandys appears to have less.
My child was an average student in high school, with avg. SAT, and B'c and C's in AP courses.
However at the college level is doing extremely well. I attribute this to her writing skills.

Maybe we need to have more opportunuties for writing experiences (whether in block or traditional) and less in regurgitating facts.

Kay,

You are so right about building relationships with teachers. I have found this to be true with the block schedule too. The kids aren't so rushed to get in and out.

You point is well taken that block or traditional depends on each family's schedule. I find we have had more time with block too outside of school. With less classes to study for, the homework is more focused and paced.

As mentioned, we were very skeptical at first. But once you get used to it, we have enjoyed the pluses.

Whovever said about writing skills, you hit the nail on the head. Many of our kids cannot write well. May daughter said the writing test today for 10th grade was a joke and so easy. I guess these skills depend on what teachers they had along the way and also how much time they spend on this at home for writing projects.

I think with passing the A/P exams, the key would be keeping good notes all year and making an A or B in an A/P course.

Jennifer or Bruce,
Aug 2nd, there was an editorial article on AP classes and scores, can you guys get us the data from that article. I believe that would add to this discussion about block-vs-traditional; it would be good for comparison.
Thanks

Debora,

Here is a link to the school district's Web site with the 2003-04 AP/IB numbers by school.

I don't have a way to link to the editorial, so I apologize for the long post that follows.

And so this doesn't get lost in the aforementioned long post, thanks for visiting the Chalkboard. Keep up the great discussion!

Here is the Aug. 2 editorial you mentioned:

MORE STUDENTS NEED CHALLENGING COURSES
GUILFORD COUNTY HAS BOOSTED ENROLLMENT IN ADVANCED CLASSES, BUT POOR SCORES IN SOME SCHOOLS POINT TO INADEQUATE PREPARATION OR TEACHING.

The drive to enroll more Guilford County high school students in Advanced Placement courses is a great success. But enrollment numbers don't tell the whole story. Students also have to perform well on AP exams.

That's where results are decidedly mixed, ranging from excellent to dismal.

At Grimsley High School, 509 students took 905 AP courses during the 2003-04 academic year. Eighty percent of exams produced a score of 3 or better on a 5-point scale, usually good enough to qualify for college credit.

At Dudley High School, 194 students took 390 AP courses, with only 5 percent of tests scoring 3 or better.

Overall, 3,565 Guilford County students enrolled in AP classes, nearly double the number of only three years ago. But the rate of scoring 3 or higher was just 45 percent, a slight decline.

The bottom line is that many more students are turning in solid AP scores now than when enrollment was much lower. And students generally benefit from AP courses even if they don't end up with good scores. Studies show that the more AP classes students take in high school, the better their chances of graduating from college.

But low AP scores at some schools point to problems. Students may not be properly prepared for the rigorous course work, or teachers may not be adequately trained to teach the AP curriculum.

Superintendent Terry Grier said his staff is addressing those issues. The system provides a week of training for AP teachers and holds Saturday seminars where teachers gather for "share- the-success sessions" led by those who have produced good results, Grier said.

Where low scores persist, it indicates administrators have not monitored classes closely enough or worked diligently to implement high standards, Grier admitted. His staff is looking into whether course grades match the exam scores. Students who earn a 1 or 2 on the AP test "ought to be getting C's in the course" rather than A's or B's, Grier asserted.

One step that might ensure greater success in AP courses is the system's new policy requiring this year's ninth-graders to enroll in honors classes if they scored at the highest level on statewide math and reading exams in eighth grade. Honors classes should offer better preparation for AP courses taken later in high school.

Guilford County is increasing academic rigor, as demonstrated by the AP enrollment boost. But that's only the beginning. The system must place qualified teachers in every AP class at every school and make sure that more students meet higher standards.

Block scheduling is good!!!!

Can anyone give comments about MS block scheduling. 84 minutes a day every other day for all subjects, including language and math?