News-Record.com

As a High Point resident, I can only dream what these Grimsley parents feel. Wow - they actually spoke out, people listened, and the decision was made in their favor.

I wonder if they could take up the High Point charge? There are so many things wrong in High Point that it would take many of them working full time to make an impact.

quest,

Unfortunately, this only is more evidence of the disparity in the treatment of schools between Greensboro and High Point. Members of the board understand that they can't anger Greensboro citizens and parents, after all Grimley's board representative, Ms. Sykes, is up for re-election soon. The board can ride roughshod over High Point without fear of recrimination all day long. Ms. Kearns and Ms. Mendenhall don't give a flip what happens to the High Point schools, other than Central High. You can be assured that Central will be protected quietly and on the side, but Andrews and Southwest are fair game.

Dot Kearns Socialists Agenda lives on in High Point schools.

Citizens of High Point should not complain about oppression or Educational neglect as long as we allow Dot Kearns to have a stranglehold on our childrens future.

Socialism has failed in most parts the world and it is time for Dot to take her foot off the throats of the children she claims to stand up for.

Dot,the children are not idiots.They do not need your special programs and no longer need to be patronized by your liberal arrogance.

Dot,we the people of High Point plea to you to resign from the school board and then maybe freedom and common sense can be restored in our schools.

quest,

The difference is these people live in Greensboro
and have different political connections and agendas. Remember they did not come out to speak at the board meeting, not one of them. They knew beforehand it was "in the bag".

As you know, you won't ever see this in High Point.

The small learning communities and the grant money can stay. They just won't be "academies".

I had such high hopes for Amos Quick. Now I know he can be bought.

It appeared he was against removing the Title I designations from the 4 high schools. As soon as Grier offered more money to Dudley and Smith, Amos was sold.

Who looks out for Andrews & Central??

Darlene can't do it alone.

I am afraid Amos will be surprised to learn that there will likley be no money to push to Smith & Dudley if the County doesn't approve Dr. G's $16 million request.

Barbara,
I am confused by the comment that because the Grimsley parents are from GSO they didn't need to come before the board. Isn't that out of line? Over half the speakers Tuesday (myself included) were from Greensboro and surrounding areas. The Board was not being asked to consider a policy change Tuesday night to allow the 9th grade academies. Do not insult the Grimsley parents for fighting their battle outside the board room if that was the best avenue.

To Jonathan: To answer your question who looks out for HP? "No one" as you can see from all that has happened these past years.

Kim:

Regarding the budget. They always know they won't get the full money they ask for and this has been considered. Also many phone calls and little meetings go on with various commissioners before the "public budget" This is how it works. They have money from various sources and I am sure that Dudley and Smith will probably be taken care of. We will have to wait and see in May. It is a different political game than what goes on in HP.

With regard to Grimsley, sorry Kim you misunderstood. I was not referring to the meeting this week on March 8th, but to two school board meetings ago. Not one person came out to speak at the school board meeting after you all had your Grimsley parents meeting. See past posts somewhere on this Chaulkboard and Bruce Buchanan's comments. He thought it was very strange also.

It does not necessary matter what is on that particular agenda, you can come out any time and speak.

My point is if no one comes out after you have the "little" meeting with the parents, it is an assumption that you have been listened to and taken care of.

I am truly happy for you and the other Grimsley that you have school board members and connections who listen to you. You know best what your school needs to succeed. Bravo!

Unfortunately this is not the case in High Point. Over 800 parents came out last year against the "Choice Plan"; a year's worth of research; letters; e-mails and speeches where made; countless hours of efforts by 100's of dedicated parents. You all came out to one small meeting and were heard. Good for you.

You can see why people are continually moving out of High Point; homeschooling; or putting the kids in private schools.

Be glad you live where you do. Let's leave it at that.

The Grimsley Acadmay was never going happen!!!!

oops....meant to say Academy....whatever

"We'll see how this turns out, but it looks like the Grimsley parents have won out."

Posted by bruce

That's Bruce's "take" on it. Here's mine:

...I say that it looks like someone did a "favor" for someone....

Barbara Ann,

I am not a Grimsley parent. I never went to any of their "little" or big meetings. And I have no stake in that issue. I took exception to the notion that because we do not live in High Point, the BOE will listen to us, "and take care of us" regardless of our complaint. I am currently deeply involved in the Advanced Learner issue regarding stopping 2nd grade testing. And NOBODY is taking care of us. We have plenty of parents from all over the county involved, and only 1 board memeber who supports us. The same under the table agenda is pushing the AL decision as did the High Point shaft plan. So, let's not make this a geography issue. It doesn't matter what part of Guilford Cty you are in, if Dr. T. decides you do not have enough minority enrollment in your program/school, he will take steps to fix that. Either by reasonable measures, or unreasonable ones. That's what is really going on here. And NOONE wants to talk about that. WHY?

Kim:

What goes on here is called a socialist agenda. Barbara Ann will tell you that I can recite a speech given on 2/10/04 by a School Board member that will scare the living daylights out of you. Apparently 52% of Guilford County did not have a problem with the speech because this person is still around after the past election.

Everyone knows it is quite frustrating when they give you that glazed over look at the School Board meetings; that is if you can get anyone of them to look you in the eye while you are talking to them.

Kim,

You are so right. The AL program does affect the entire county. I guess no one wants to "talk about it" because it would not be "politically correct" in this county. I think Darlene Garrett did an EXCELLENT job at the last meeting. She has the guts to ask the right questions. Notice she got the run-around from the staff at the meeting. They never answered her questions. See yesterday's Rhino. They have a great take on what is REALLY going on. That might help you out.

My daughter was in the AL program long ago. She is now in 10th grade. It is a shame it will more than likely be watered down and testing delayed. You are right to fight but it will be interesting to see if it does any good.

You are right about the admin and school board doing what they want. First a program is changed or put in place; then there are the token parental "forums" to show they are "listening". Then they don't really care what the parents want and just do what they want and had an agenda to do long ago.

Partly, you can see BJ's point - some parts of the county do get a "favor".

I tend to agree with the article in today's News & Record, page B4. " 'It's very much intended to restructure the whole high school,' Rodenbough said." and the mention of no time to build public support (where have we heard that before) since the grant is due in 30 to 45 days. Then you hear the standard "No final decisions have been made." - "Let the committee do their work..the uproar would settle down" (sound familiar - fix the PR problem)

If you follow the history of the GCS, this seems to be the pattern:

Sent for any grant money you can get your hands on (yes the schools do always need money)

Make a program to "fit" the grant application.

Then get the "public input" after you have applied.

Show you are "listening" to the public. (You don't have to do what they want - just show you are "listening")

Then tweak it a little and get the grant money and put the program in place.

In my humble opinon, there is no way that grant money is going back and as today's newpaper states, "Rodenbough said she doesn't believe minor changes will satisfy the grant requirements." and "It's very much intended to restructure the whole high school."

She is a very smart lady.

Bruce did a super job in reporting this.

Maybe I'm just naive, but is it really so far-fetched to believe that some decisions are still made by on the school level? Or that sometimes a well-organized group of parents can make things happen, not due to favoritism but simply by working with school leaders?

You may well be able to make a case that High Point schools and Greensboro schools aren't treated equally. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

But comparing this situation to the High Point reassignment plan and saying, "See, Greensboro parents got special treatment while High Point parents got ignored," isn't a valid comparison. The High Point reassignment plan was a school board decision. But the decision on whether or not to pursue a ninth-grade academy is being made by each high school's principal, not the board.

At Grimsley, it was clear from the beginning that parents and, just as importantly, teachers weren't behind this plan at all. Howard Gradet, a Johns Hopkins University expert who is helping GCS implement these ninth-grade academies, told me that if you don't have school-wide buy-in, these ninth-grade academies won't work. The teachers have to believe in them.

Based on what I can tell, it appears Grimsley officials realized the support just wasn't there and they punted. The parents didn't need to call in any favors from the school board. They had the trump card (i.e. the support of the faculty) from the start.

Having said all that, I have no doubt that if the Grimsley parents hadn't been able to resolve this in-house, they would have taken their case to the school board. That is the right of every citizen in Guilford County. And who knows what the school board would've done?

Oh, and thanks for the kind words, Barbara Ann.

And thanks to everyone who reads the education coverage in the News & Record.

Bruce,
I almost laughed out loud...yes I think it is naive to think decisions are being made at the school level and to think that a well-organized group of parents can make things happen! You know better than that. First look at the 800 parents who attended the High Point High school lottery forum and were not listened to. And talk about organized, for over a year a group of over 1,000 parents have been trying to get the school board to listen. Like the Grimsley issue, the HP high school lottery plan also did not have support from parents as well as many teachers, yet the school board went ahead with the plan. Lets see what happens ultimately at Grimsley. The cancer is spreading to G'boro. Grier and his moonie board members will proceed with their socialist agendas regardless of whether any particular plan is the right thing for the children. If there is grant money then it's a go.

I like the words that Bruce chose when talking about the ninth grade academies: "The teachers have to believe in them."

I don't see many situations, where changes are concerned, that teachers are consulted.

I wonder, for instance, how the 3rd grade teachers are feeling, if this NEW AL PLAN goes forth. (Instead of the "illegal" testing of 2nd graders, 3rd grade teachers will be given the task of "recommending" students worthy of VSN).

I would hate to be a third-grade teacher in Guilford County now. The burden will be placed solely on them. And you KNOW that the behind-the-scene instruction will be that they MUST recommend a "diverse" group of students.

Yea, I can't wait to see the parents flying up to the school to let these teachers have it. This VSN program means the world to many families and to NOT have a TOOL for use in selecting students will create mayhem for 3rd grade teachers.

Also, with Bruce's quote: "The teachers have to believe in them." Possibly the root of the troubles at Andrews?? and with the lottery plan in High Point?? From my take on this, teachers are NON-BELIEVERS but have their hands tied as far as verbalizing that. Also, I don't recall that THEIR imput was ever requested.

So, if the school board is all of a sudden giving the impression that decisions are left up to schools or principals, I'm a non-believer.

In the case with Grimsley, they are getting the sought-after money regardless of what they call theses ninth-grade communitites. So sure, it looks like the principal was the decision-maker.

Sicktomystomach,

I hear what you are saying. Certainly, the High Point plan was incredibly unpopular with parents, to put it mildly.

Again, the key difference is that the HP plan was decided and implemented at the school board level. The Grimsley ninth-grade academy debate wasn't.

With 107 schools, the school board can't make every decision for every school. Principals and school leadership teams always have had a certain amount of decision-making power (which teachers to hire, which courses to offer, etc.) and the Grimsley decision fits in that category.

Lots of smart people out there today.

"Communities", "Academies", "Small Learning Groups", "Clusters", "9th grade Co-ops"

"TomAto" or "Tomaaato"

"What's in a name?"

Let's call a spade a spade. "Free" money (your federal tax dollars at work) is not going back. It will be used to fit the parameters of the grant (in my humble opinion)

And all of a sudden input is being sought at lower levels.

Notice all the newspapers articles - both HPE and N & R these past days - interesting article on what Andrew's Walter Childs has to say. They all went to the Principals and they made the decision about the Title I money going to elementary schools. Some did not want a "stigma".

I have one question for those of you out in blogg land: If the Federal government ever steps in to question shifting the Title I funds midstream, do the principals now get blamed when the Feds come to Guilford County to investigate? Something to think about.

Barbara Ann,

Re: feds coming in because of shifting Title I money midstream...

That seems unlikely. I spoke to a spokesman with the US Department of Ed the other day. (They got back with me after the articles on Title I were published.) Anyway, he said that as long as the money is being moved legally, the department has nothing to say about it. They won't go into whether its morally correct or not. It's legal, so the schools can do it.

He noted that for critics who say No Child Left Behind is not flexible, here is an example of the law's flexibility.

After much Thought,I have come up with a new experiment to better diversify the socio-economic balance in Guilford County Schools.

Our Administrators have spent endless hours working to balance socio-economics in our student population.

In appreciation of their hard work,I offer my services to help and administer my new experiment.

The Name of my new plan is "The Income Redistribution Lottery".

In this plan we will take the top ten wage earners in GCS (including Dr. Grier) and the bottom ten wage earners in GCS. All incomes will be put into an account that will be administered by an independent consulting firm.

The next step in this plan will allow the ten bottom wage earners ten chances each to pick a new income out of the twenty incomes that are in the lottery account.

Next,after the consultant(who just happens to be my brother) is paid,the top ten wage earners will be allowed to "choose" their incomes from what is left in the account.

Our goal with this plan is to make everyone feel good about what they do for a living and spread the wealth evenly among GCS employees.

It will take several years to see if this plan will work,so please be patient.

When we see the GCS Janitor leaving "The Chop House" after lunch, heading toward Norman Stockton in his new black Lexus,passing Dr. Grier at the bus stop along the way, we will know that The Lottery plan has been a success.

I love this plan. Will there be public input about it or is it already a done deal?

Maybe a citizens retreat to Rancho Mirage on Griers expense account would allow us to fine tune this plan.

I'll call ahead for Tee times.

The following appeared in the September 2004 issue of GCS Grants in the News:

Three other schools applied for a Smaller Learning Communities Implementation Grant this year. Andrews High School, High Point Central High School, and Southwest High School applied for funding in July and should hear shortly if their project will be funded.

As it turns out the Andrews, Central and Southwest were awarded $842,720.00 on 9/29/04 for implementation of smaller learning communities.

I've noticed that much is being made about the decision at Grimsley being in the hands of their principal not the school board.

I question who made the decision for High Point.

Was it the High Point principals?

Was it the school board?

If anyone knows the answer, I would appreciate them posting.

My daughter will be a freshman in 2005-2006 school year. I do not recall being asked for any input on this program. Heck, I do not even remember anyone mentioning it until it the money was awarded.

I will also throw in that while Jeff Thigpen was a county commissioner he motioned Guilford County Schools to involve the county commissioners when implementing new programs that receive federal funding. The motion was passed unanimously by the county commissioners. This was a very smart move on Mr. Thigpen's part because ultimately the county could be left funding new programs when the federal money runs out or if the grant is not awarded.

Ronda,

Do you know who can enforce the Commissioners' vote? Do we need the Commissioners to remind the School Board of the vote, or is it incumbent upon the School Board to do this? Now that Thigpen has resigned, I fear the ball has dropped.

Bruce/Jennifer,

This looks like a great piece of detective work for you. The vote will be reflected in the public record for you to verify. Could you request comments from Duncan, et. al?

Slakattak,
Put me down for the Rancho Mirage retreat. If I speak on the issue, could I be paid a consulting fee?

Also, to Ronda...High Point is the armpit of Guilford county schools. Didn't you know that? Those in High Point are too dumb and illiterate to make their own decisions. All decisions for High Point are given to Ms. Dot Kearns to decide. She's been around a loooooong time and she knows best what the poor children of High Point need.

She is the best person to ask the next time you have a question. But better block out an hour or two on your schedule before you give her a call. Her answers are VERY lengthy and always begin with a story about her High Point friends from waaaaaaay back that lived in tenant shelters, and how she will spend the rest of her life making sure that she repays them.

Publioutrage:

The people in those tenant shelters were actually displaced farmers from Georgia she "helped" a century ago when she was a social worker.

If you have any questions google social communes.

If you have any questions about how her math works it goes like this:

"1 for you, 2 for me; 1 for you 3 for me......"

It's a shame that Ms. Kearns doesn't feel the same compassion for the children of High Point as she does Georgian farmers.

Jen,

Of course it is "legal" to move the funds. Your tax dollars pay all those attorney fees that GCS hires to find this out first hand in between them playing on their lap tops during school board meetings, looking up sport scores, searching for hotels, etc.

Aren't you glad to know your tax dollars are well spent.

Now "ethical" is another question.

Barbara Ann

Ronda,

Great question. Remember the article appeared in the HPE with Dot's photo next to it saying that the grant was awarded for the HP high schools; how great it was; that the money was also going to be distributed EVENLY among the three schools.

I have make three inquiries now to the school board and Dr. Grier and have been told that they will get back to me; they are busy with the "budget". I will let you all know when I hear of the "even" distribution.

But you are right, Ronda, it was great PR strategy for Dot at campaign time, but I don't remember any parents forums; principals being asked. No, didn't read that in the newspapers.

Guess you have to live in Greensboro to be asked.

JENNIFER, HERE IS A CUT & PASTE FROM ANOTHER STRAND THAT WE ARE STILL WAITING TO HEAR ABOUT. ANY LUCK?

Jennifer,

Here's another plea for investigation. I would like you to contact Nina Shokraii Rees, Assistant Deputy Secretary for Innovation and Improvement, Department of Education.

She will have interesting information to give you about Grier's plan.

You may wish to search the N&R archives during the summer of 2004. There was an op-ed written by the N&R after the GCS School Board voted on the opt out schools for those Title 1 schools last year that had not met AYP for 2 consecutive years. In that op-ed, your staff stated that "the wrong students" were opting out of the school.

Ms. Reese followed up the next day or 2 with a letter to the editor criticizing the op-ed and providing you with a real education about NCLB.

I would be quite interested to read an interview that you and/or Bruce conducted with her about this matter.

Posted by: Gamblin Man at March 4, 2005 05:47 PM

Bruce,

We are still awaiting your response to Ronda's observations about the lack of involvement at the High Point schools in the implementation of 9th grade small learning communities. You are adamant that these decisions are at the local level, not the board level. If that is so, why the disparity in how it was handled at Grimsley and the three HP schools?

Now, the answer may very well be that the three HP principals had the authority to make that decision in those schools, and if they did, then they were negligent in getting feedback from parents and involving them in the decision. If you are right that the board didn't have a role in this, then Terry Grier and the three principals have to be held to account. But, if that is true, who is going to hold them to account? The only people who can do that is the board, and they won't do it. It takes you right back again to the fact that the HP schools are treated differently by the school administration and the board. Parents of influence are listened to in Greensboro and parents in HP are stiffed. Susan M. and D. Kearns do not represent the interests of all of the parents in HP. For whatever reason, those two individuals are allowing the HP schools to be ravaged beyond recognition.

Why, oh why, don't we have recall for the school board in Guilford County? There are many school districts in this country that provide for recall of miscreant board members. We need it here!

I heard the famous Dot Kearns Georgia Farmers' Grapes of Wrath story, but I'm not sure that I really understood it. Can someone explain to me why Dot was helping Georgia farmers in their tenant shelters? I really have never understood the connection.

Teddy,

The explanation about our ever-so-gracious, social worker/board member is easy to understand: She'll do anything for a vote.

Teddy, I saw this story about the displaced GA farmers coming to High Point a couple of years ago on public television.

It turns out that about a century ago Dot was on a commune with Marx(that's Karl, not Groucho or Harpo). She eventually came back to this country and continued her studies right here in this county at a very large public institution.

Eventually she even got a city named after her like her friends Lenin and Stalin. Haven't you ever heard of Kearnsersville? Eventually the people of this town became ashamed of her, dropped a few letters out of the town name, and even requested that a neighboring county accept them, leaving Dot to work her magic Guilford County.

Apparently the Carter family of Plains, GA became very successful growing peanuts and brewing beer. In fact during the 1960's this family ran all the other peanut farmers out of GA and they all fled to High Point, NC.

And that is how our beloved Aunt Dottie was able to take farmers from GA and place them in the furniture factories and hosiery mills of High Point.

Aunt Dottie must not of totally burned the bridges between here and Kernersville.

After Dot screwed Andrews High School beyond repair,It should not surprise you that Dots' Niece and Nephews gave up on Andrews and now pay tuition to attend Glenn High School in the former "Kearnserville".

I guess thats one "Opt Out School" the other 1200 students at Andrews may have to look into when the walls totally fall down on McGuinn Ave.

Bruce/Jen:

Excellent Counterpoint in today's newspaper by Ms. Rodenbough. I love the part about extensive preparation and parental involvement.

This reminds me, no one has still answered Ronda's question on who decided this for HP high schools? It was announced in the newspapers the end of September. Can you help?

Also I have written to the board and Dr. Grier 3 times now to inquire about the even distribution of this money and what each school would receive and how these funds would be used. To date, I have not heard from any of them on this. Can you and Jen help with this also? I am sure people on the Chaulkboard would love to know: 1: who decided for High Point? 2: Why weren't parents consulted? 3: Did the principals decide for High Point high schools too (if so, one is now gone) 4: Since preparation is supposed to go in, how are they prepared to use these funds?

The readers would still love to have this information.

Thank you.

Barbara,

Actually, two of the three HP principals that started the year are now gone from Central and Andrews.

I took the liberty of sharing Ms. Rodenbough's letter to the folks at the chalkboard.

By Melanie Rodenbough
(copied from the letters to the editorial):

The March 8 editorial, "Making the grade," correctly states that parents at Grimsley are worried about the proposed ninth-grade academy (plans for which have since been abandoned).

That you endorse the ninth-grade academy concept as an isolated remedy for students who are failing and dropping out highlights one of our principal concerns: Few in our community understand the radical changes proposed for our high schools.

Virtually systemwide, yet another serious and far-reaching policy change is being driven by the availability of a federal grant whose requirements go far beyond implementing ninth-grade academies. The small learning communities (SLC) grant changes a large school into a group of SLCs or academies. The grant funds "extensive restructuring" of the school through an SLC project that "will include every student within the school by no later than the end of the fifth school year of implementation." The option of just implementing a ninth-grade academy does not exist if the school is in the grant. And since the grant provides up to $800,000 per school, the incentive to jump into the big pot of money is high.

But, at what cost do we continue to chase after every available grant to fund programs that have not been thought through and do not have community support? Our county commissioners, reflecting the growing sentiment of the public whose tax dollars fund the schools, are disenchanted with leadership that grabs for every new program but still fails to educate our children. We have students who are failing and dropping out in droves in Guilford County. By one count, 61 percent of black boys and 32 percent of white boys fail to graduate. There is little evidence that just putting them into academies will solve their problems.

The grant states that, "Effectively implementing an SLC project requires significant prior planning and preparation, as well as extensive consultation with, and participation by, school personnel, parents, students and community leaders. It is not a discrete activity that can be carried out by a handful of teachers and school personnel without the involvement of the larger school community."

The latter describes precisely what almost happened at Grimsley.

The writer lives in Greensboro.

Posted by News & Record at March 14, 2005 03:00 AM

COMMENTS:

Ms. Rodenbough correctly states the wording of the SLC grant:

"Effectively implementing an SLC project requires significant prior planning and preparation, as well as extensive consultation with, and participation by, school personnel, parents, students and community leaders. It is not a discrete activity that can be carried out by a handful of teachers and school personnel without the involvement of the larger school community."

She also describes how this criteria was almost NOT followed at Grimsley. Whew! That was a close one!! I bet the parents are STILL breathing a sigh of relief for what ALMOST happened.

NOW...for just one minute....let's all put on the shoes of the parents and students that live in High Point. This HAS happened to them!! Exactly what the grant above warns NOT to do, WAS done a over a YEAR ago to the Guilford County High Schools in High Point--ALL of them.

Does this help ANYONE understand the plight over here? We are NOT being heard, NOT being understood, and it seems NO ONE cares--not our School Board or superintendent, NOT the city leaders of High Point.....NO ONE seems to care!!!

So, Ms. Rodenbough, breathe your sigh of relief, then please help spread the word that the very episode that you narrowly escaped is alive and well in High Point.

Can anyone empathize with the children of High Point or are they less worthy than the kids in Greensboro???????

Posted by: public outrage at March 14, 2005 10:01 AM

Teddy,

I'm not sure I understand what you were saying. The ninth-grade academy situation was handled at the three High Point schools just like it was handled at every other school in Guilford County - the decision was made on the school level.

High Point Central has a ninth-grade academy. Southwest doesn't. Andrews had one last year, but dropped it because the new principal didn't want it. In all three cases, the school leadership made a decision to either have a ninth-grade academy or not have one.

The situation wasn't any different at Grimsley. It's just that the Grimsley parents and teachers, when they heard about the idea, strongly opposed the plan and got organized.

Bruce, Bruce, Bruce,

Where have you been? What Teddy and Ronda are saying is it was announced in the newpapers the end of Sept. and Oct. 1 about the SLC (small learning communities). The money was to be used for all THREE high schools and disributed evenly. The parameters of the grant were the same - have community buy-in and involve parents. The parents never knew about this before it hit the papers; the Grimsley parents did. .

What Teddy is saying is if indeed the principals knew about it and made the decision, the parents were not informed nor the community involved in the decision making process of a five year restructure.

According to the fall newspapers the money was to be distrubited evenly and for small learning communties. If the one at Andrews was dropped and there is one at Central and we still don't have an answer on SWH, how is this grant money being used for all three high schools and being distributed evenly per the article in HPE with Dot's photo on it before the elections?

Teddy is right - the principal at Central and Andrews have left so even if they were asked for their opinion, now they are gone.

Parents in HP are still unaware of what is going on with this and it was announced in the Fall?

I don't call that including parents.

And as mentioned, after 3 inquiries to the school board and Dr. Grier, I have not gotten an answer regarding how these funds will be used.

Yep, still in the dark. Business as usual. Can you find this out?

Barbara Ann

Ah, I think I understand now. You're saying that parents weren't involved in the decision-making at the three High Point high schools. That may well be the case; I'll take your word on that.

But the Grimsley parents I've talked to say they weren't involved in the decision-making process either, at least at the beginning. They say they had to demand a place at the table - and they made so much noise that the school's leadership couldn't ignore them. That's a lot different than a willing partnership between school leaders and parents.

However, Grimsley principal Rob Gasparello says there never was an effort to shut people out and the ninth-grade academy was never a done deal. He says he and other Grimsley leaders were listening all along. So clearly, the two sides don't see eye-to-eye on this one.

This is where it gets a little confusing (at least to me). The SLC grant money at the three HP schools won't be used for ninth-grade academies, as it will be at other high schools.

Instead, it will be used to help fund the academic portion of the reassignment plan - those specialized programs like arts at Southwest and technology at Andrews. The school district is arguing that these career strands are the equivalent of a "small learning community."

Bruce, you say this about the Grimsley parents:

"They say they had to demand a place at the table - and they made so much noise that the school's leadership couldn't ignore them"

....WHAT??? Are you serious? And how do you explain all the "noise" that got ignored in High Point last year?? Did Grier call you again last night and give you that lame rationalization? And how will you rationalize the "noise" of the AL parents when their requests to LEAVE THE PROGRAM ALONE go unheard?

I have a better explanation for Grimsley. Marti Sykes. You see, not that I like her, but when you have a school board Rep. that walks you through the process of making the "right" kind of noise, you get heard.

Over here in High Point we could get thousands of parents and students to jump up and down on the boardroom table, and we still wouldn't be heard.

Bruce, I'm guessing you live in Greensboro. Otherwise you wouldn't be so blind to the injustice that High Point has to deal with. Maybe you should move over here so you can get a better perspective if you plan to continue being the education reporter. Just don't have kids unless you plant to go private.

Furniture Gal,

Glad to have you here at The Chalkboard. If you re-read my previous post, I said:

"You're saying that parents weren't involved in the decision-making at the three High Point high schools. That may well be the case; I'll take your word on that."

I also remember all the noise the Southwest parents made during the reassignment debate. Believe me; I was there for those meetings and talked for countless hours with concerned parents. I know their frustration was - and is - genuine.

But here's the difference: The High Point parents were trying to change the minds of the school board. The Grimsley parents had to change the mind of the Grimsley principal and the Grimsley leadership.

For whatever reason, he was willing to back off the ninth-grade academy, which he says was never a done deal to begin with. The school board wasn't willing to back off the reassignment plan.

The Grimsley and High Point parents were appealing to two different authorities - you are comparing apples and oranges by comparing the two situations.

And for whatever it's worth, I live in the Southwest district.

Just got a call from a friend in Florida.
She has friends in the sunshine state who are looking to move to the area due to a job transfer.

She knew we lived in High Point and suggested we talk to her friends about the schools in the area.

This family has four elementary age children.

It is a shame that it has gotten to the point that I will steer this family to either Davidson or Forsyth County to seek a school system that still operates under a Democratic form of government.

As Dell,Fed Ex,and all new business brings new people to the triad,we can all thank Grier, Dot and the rest of the socialists on the school board for making Guilford County, and especially High Point the "LAST RESORT"to raise a family.

Correction Bruce, you lived in the Southwest district. After 2/10/04 you live in the High Point Choice Plan district.

Welcome to the neighborhood

Bruce,

Thank you for seeing that High Point's pain is genuine. I apologize that I assumed that you lived in Greensboro. I'm surprised that I've never heard you say before that you are in the famed, "Lottery" district.

In your reply to me, you comment that those in High Point were trying to "change the mind" of our school board. That is my point EXACTLY. Why does our board already have decisions MADE by the time the public hears about them? School Boards should NOT have their minds MADE UP before an idea is presented to the public. The School Board is composed of representatives to the community, who are supposed to LISTEN to the community and THEN decide and issue.

Why is our School Board acting as if it only reports to itself?

Apples, oranges, kiwi....whatever, our Board is just that, OUR board. To me, there MUST be underlying reasons to be so adamant about a decision if they ALREADY have their minds made up about it.

And for what it's worth, will you stay in the infamous, Former Southwest district?

Oh, and thanks for the "Chalkboard" it's a great place to get info.

There have been several references, in the comments on this post and to others on the Chalkboard, about the school board *never* listening when High Point parents speak. I don't think that's entirely accurate, although it might feel that way.

The board did listen in January and February 2003 when High Point parents, mostly from Southwest (and Jamestown parents from Ragsdale), protested proposals to redraw attendance lines. There were, I believe, four proposals in all, that affected anywhere from a few hundred students at two schools to 500 students at three schools. The schools involved were Andrews, Central, Southwest and Ragsdale.

After all of those plans were scrapped, the boar came up with the current reassignment plan, encompassing Andrews, Central and Southwest.

And remember, there were parents who asked for a change at Andrews. So the board did listen to them and they are from High Point.

Also, there had been attendance line changes proposed for Shadybrook around the time the concerns about Andrews came up. Parents protested because Shadybrook was such a successful school they didn't see the need for change. The board conceded (partly) by not redistricting some of the students and allowing those who were redistricted the option to go back to Shadybrook.

So, while not all High Point parents get what they want, their requests aren't always ignored either.

Jennifer, I think I should bring it to your attention that someone from the School Board is using your name and posting responses on this site.

If you did write this most recent post you know well and good that the majority of the School Board did not listen to the majority of the taxpayers in High Point and Jamestown over the past 14 months.

You are correct about one thing, though it was a boar or 2 or 3 that came up with the current reassignment plan. Or did you mean to type board and just accidently typed the correct word?

I am truly sorry that the parents of Andrews may have had problems that needed to be fixed. Under no circumstances do I believe it is just that part of the solution to fix these problems involves my daughter.

If a grant is involved, the board is deaf. If no money is involved or no other hidden agenda, then sometimes the board will scrap a plan at the request of parents.

Okay Jennifer, do you want to hear that you're right? Sure, yea, sometimes the board looks as if they are listening. But really, it's because no money was at risk.

I would say that an accountable board would listen to its constitutents MOST of the time. I suppose I could go dig in the archives and find instances where the board actually adhered to a request, but they are far and few in-between.

Also, Jennifer, we are talking about our children, who have to spend EVERY day in a building or program. So what you see on paper that our board does is FAR different than LIVING it. You see the board saying yes to this or no to that....don't forget that these are CHILDREN.

To you it may look like there are a few vocal parents that always want to point out the wrong. To us, you are too eager to defend the
Board's actions. My guess is you don't have children at stake.

The Board should LISTEN EVERY time and when they can't please EVERYONE then at least they can say that they tried. I don't see them even trying.

Go right ahead and keep defending ignorance.

What a crock. Which board member called you and told you to print that. Or was it our not-so-superintendent? I hope you were paid well.

Next you'll be fact-finding and trying to convince readers that Dot Kearns is a great board member, and that Susan Mendenhall is just super-dooper.

Oh maybe you'll write that pigs can fly or that the Easter Bunny is REAL!!!

Give me a break Jennifer. Hey Bruce, you're off the hook. I'll send her the pom-poms so SHE can be the official cheerleader for our phenomenal "bored" of education!!!

I'm STILL LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hardly think that Jennifer was "defending ignorance" - or defending anything for that matter. She never said the reassignment plan was a good idea.

What she said was that there are several notable instances where the school board did respond to the wishes of High Point parents.

And no matter what you may think of the school board, I hope you don't believe that they intend to cause any children harm by the reassignment plan. You may disagree with it, but the board members in favor of it honestly believe they are doing the right thing.

I agreee with Jennifer's comments. The school board did listen to our concerns as Andrews parents when we went to them back in the winter of 2002. We wanted to increase the number of AP classes being offered at Andrews by filling up our empty seats with students from the overcrowded Southwest high school. At that time Southwest had 29 AP classes offered and Andrews had 14. (Central had 31.) It just seemed to make sense to increase the number of students that wanted to take AP classes at Andrews by moving some of them from Southwest, which was overcrowded. The school board tried to redraw the attendance lines but all the parents from Southwest fought it. So they came up with the High Point Choice Plan instead. I really think some of the board members voted it in because they did not want to have to redraw attendance lines knowing how much of an uproar their previous proposals had caused.

I am not saying the HIgh POint Choice Plan is the best answer. I would have just liked to have seen the lines redrawn and be done with it but it was not to be. I don't think the High POint area will ever go back to the way things were before the Choice Plan came into effect. Something was going to be done and the Choice Plan is it, for now anyway.

What do The Late Strom Thurmond, Senator Robert Byrd and Dot Kearns have in common?

All three Waited Way to long to get out of public service.

At least they just propped Strom up in the corner,and woke him up to vote.

Dot and Robert Byrd still have enough steam left in them to bore you to death with some left wing
jibberish that goes on for hours.

DOT, Please retire while you still have a little dignity left.

Sandy says, "I am not saying the High Point Choice Plan is the best answer."

How many times have we heard that sentence?

Why do we put up with and rationalize plans that we know are not the "BEST" that we can do?

Sure it gets old, fighting for what we think is right, but as long as we have breath in our bodies, we should do right by our kids.

I can't continue waking up every morning knowing that the kids in High Point got "the best that the board could come up with..." or "a plan created to avoid another redistricting debacle..." or "...a plan that was thrown together to meet a grant deadline..."

WE are the adults here. Our kids are depending on us. We have to set the example. Becoming complacent and accepting what we know is "not the best plan" teaches our kids to strive for the easy out. Let's teach them to go for the gold, even if the road to get there is a little more difficult.

I cannot accept a half-baked plan for High Point, or anywhere for that matter. Does anyone agree that we MUST continue to insist on the "BEST"??

When's the last time you sent your kid out to the soccer field, or to the gymnastic meet, or to an SAT test and said, "Okay son/daughter, go give it your second best!" or "Exert as little energy as possible cuz I hate to see you work so hard."

Come on parents, step up to the plate! If a program is not the best it could possibly be then admit it needs to be trashed!--or turn in your parenting license.

Bruce,

You do get it. I have not heard of any of the HP parents ever being informed. Also looks like many of the Grimsley parents weren't either. They found out about it AFTER THE FACT, then had to come out loud and clear to be heard. To quote the Counterpoint today:

The grant states that, "Effectively implementing an SLC project requires significant prior planning and preparation, as well as extensive consultation with, and participation by, school personnel, parents, students and community leaders. It is not a discrete activity that can be carried out by a handful of teachers and school personnel without the involvement of the larger school community."

The grant does not say, "tell the principal and hand picked committee; make the decision for the entire school for a five year overhall; then do an effective PR snow job and sock it to the rest of the parents once you get your grant money in your pocket; they will understand." No, I didn't see that written anywhere in the grant app.

Bruce, back to your comment, "where it gets a little confusing" referring to the HP grant money. You are so right, again. It is confusing.

Oct. 1, N & R, "Area high schools get grant". The article states, "EACH SCHOOL will be able to decide how it wants to spend the money, as long as it is directed toward struggling ninth-graders. But Grier said some options might include reducing class sizes, buying supplies and paying for teacher training."....."The grant encourages schools to divide students into smaller groups so they can get more individual attention."

Has each school decided? The parents have not heard.

How is "fund the academic portion of the reassignment plan - those specialized programs like art at Southwest and technology at Andrews. The school district arguing that these careeer strands are the equivalent of a "small learning community" as you mentioned today, the same as "directed towards struggling ninth graders"??

I think the key word here is "arguing" - sounds more like "rationlizing" or making the grant's parameters fit the programs to get the money. First of all, the magnet like programs where supposed to be "world class" so kids would want them. If that is the case, the classes would not be small but kids would be beating down the doors to get in.

Maybe the smaller classrooms come from so few kids taking mime and puppetry and they will be struggling to apply their pancake make-up or struggling to fit their hands inside the puppets? Now that could be where the "struggling" part comes in. They could also be stuggling to convince their parents they can get a job in the mime or puppetry field.

Maybe they will be "struggling" at Andrews to actual learn something while the card games are going on in the classrooms; the teachers keep leaving the school; the cops keep breaking up the fights; and the principals come and go? That is a form of struggling too. So I guess this could be rationalized about the struggling 9th graders.

Maybe this is why after 3 inquiries to date to Dr. Grier and the school board, no one has been able to tell me how the $847,000 will be divided EVENLY as the HPE had stated and what exactly will it be used for.

As noted in the Counterpoint letter today, much planning is to go into using the grant money. If the planning has already been done, why can't they answer my question?

Still need some help on that one Bruce.

Barbara Ann

If the Lottery Plan isn't working in High Point, have any of you put forth an alternate plan? I mean you sure have ample time to hurl accusations to whoever doesn't agree with you.

Instead of projecting hate, hate and more hate, why don't you channel that energy into creating a plan that works, sharing it with the public and presenting that to the school board?

Bruce,

Please post a link to the Charles Davenport article in today's (Tuesday) paper.

EXCELLENT - he speaks the TRUTH!!!!!

SC,

Obviously you've been under a rock for the past year and 1/2.

The school board has an entire DOCUMENT that was given to them BEFORE the assinine Chaos "choice" plan was voted on. It pointed out flaws--the one's we are seeing NOW--in the High Point Plan and MANY alternative solutions.

I'm guessing that the board just threw them AWAY.

And what makes me LAUGH is the fact that a BIG ol' PLAN is NOT what is needed at all!

What's needed is COMMON SENSE. If you have any ideas on how to secretly slip that into the heads of the members of the School Board, your help will be greatly appreciated.

Obviously you haven't been to school board meetings if you think that they are receptive to a presentation by parents on how to do their job.

They do NOT listen. I could bring Dr. Phil, the Pope and God himself with a better way to do it and I know of at least 9 board members who would have their heads in their laptops, shopping on ebay DURING the meeting.

We can only hit our heads against the wall for so long. Since you seem to have all of the answers--PLEASE come forward and give it a try. At least I have walked the streets, worked polls, spoke at board meetings, etc...

What have you done?

Sandy,

Has the Choice planned helped Andrews? Did the 55 ninth graders that were moved there in the lottery help them get the AP classes they were looking for?

Will Andrews be better off now with a new, new principal and less money because of the Title I change? Won't all the transportation costs eventually take money AWAY from the school?

Did the violence decrease? Are the teachers happier? Are the students happier or feeling more safe?

If there are problems at Andrews, it starts with Terry Grier and the board. No, I don't have the answers, but then again, I didn't run for the School Board either or take the job as superintendent.

If TG was interested in improving conditions at Andrews, he could do that. He is ONLY interested in improving the AVERAGE of the test scores because that affects him and his future.

You have to see by now that Dot, Susan nor Terry care about the number of AP classes at Andrews!

DEMAND that they use "proven methods" for improving your school!

Help me understand this?

Last year the 'choice plan' was invented to **FILL** up Andrews and Central....

Now Grier is seeking GRANTS to make **SMALL** learning communities?

And who sees to it that Grant money is being used for the purpose intended? Wouldn't the Feds, who award these grants, be a little interested to see the creative interpretation that Guilford County gives them?

I'm confused....

Another confusion...

Bruce, yoohoo....hey Bruce...now WHERE do you live? Did you say that you live in the Southwest district (or what USED to be the SW district)? Are you sure?

Did you just recently move there?

Just wonderining.

SC, seeking solutions were exhausted last year. It is very hard to have a discussion with people who will not even do the courtesy of looking you in the eye when you are speaking to them or reply to telephone calls and e-mails.

In summary there is a core group on this School Board that are a waste of protoplasm and that makes it easy to understand why they gravitate to that vagabond of superintendent that can suck the life out of a school system and then move on to his next group of victims which just happens to be another group of children.

And please do not waste the keystrokes calling my comments hate when I am merely looking out for the best interests of my daughter and the similar interests of 1000's of others who share the same feelings.

It's truly unfornunate that the elections were held last November and not today. If they were held today there is no doubt in my mind Mr. Kirkpatrick could have garnered another 3% and that would have been the end of Ms. Kearns.

Memo to Sandy,

I have empathy for you as an Andrews parent, as the events of the past year prove that Andrews is, indeed, a troubled school in need of the attention of the school administration and board.

But, I take exception with you and any other Andrews parent that think that the solution to your school's problems can be solved by dipping into the brain trust of another school (Southwest, as you have identified)to solve this problem. It seems a stretch of logic to me that the solution to your school's lack of AP offerings is to import some unpaid educational mercenaries from Southwest to fill up classes. How does this actually improve the educational experience of existing Andrews students? It doesn't; it only makes the school's test scores look better. You state that Southwest was overcrowded, so they were the logical target for this plan. Actually, Ragsdale is immediately adjacent to the Andrews district, and it is overcrowded as well. Why did Terry Grier refuse to discuss that school's role in the solution? His statement that Ragsdale was not a High Point school is rediculous and doesn't make a lick of sense, as it is my understanding that the "High Point Schools" are part of GCS. Why should these three schools be isolated and treated totally different than all of the other schools in the district?

As you may recall, when the choice plan was introduced, the administration stated that they were attempting to solve two problems, 1) improve socieconomic diversity among the three schools, and 2) relieve overcrowding in Southwest. They may have accomplished objective #1 of equalizing socioeconomic diversity, but it appears that hasn't actually improved the educational performance of Andrews. And, from all reports, it appears that Southwest is still overcrowded, maybe more so than the previous year. The administration never stated that increasing the number of AP classes was an objective of the choice plan.

Now, after making such a to-do about the new world-class magnet schools in High Point, the administration has quietly deleted the use of the word "magnet" to describe the schools. According to an administration official and a review of the GCS website, the schools are not magnet schools; they are now "Choice Schools", whatever that is. The choice plan was trumpeted as a marvelous innovation and that High Point students would have the opportunity to attend world-class magnet programs. Unfortunately, the reality is that they are not world-class, nor, it appears, that they are even magnet schools.

If you want to see a school district that seems to have its act together, all you have to do is look next door at the Winston-Salem/Forsyth Schools. They have quality schools, and the have a true "choice" program for all high school students. High school students have the option of attending their "residential" school, applying to attend "any" other school in the district or a magnet school. In short, they have an open enrollment policy for high school students. Now, that is truly a choice program. That school district has a more limited offering of magnet programs at the high school level, but the truth is that they are selective in their investment in magnet programs, implementing fewer, but much more effective programs, and spending the majority of their funds to make the educational experience of all students in the district worthwhile. Unlike, GCS, they don't throw every conceivable magnet (or choice school) program against the wall and see what sticks. It's too bad that our parents and citizens allow Terry Grier and the school board to ruin and destroy the public schools in this county. But, maybe it's been so long that parents and students know what a quality public education system looks like. Perhaps, they are willing to settle for the mediocrity offered up in Guilford County as a result.

SC,

It is comments from people like you that reminds me, from time to time I must praise the good lord above that there are still people out there fighting for the rights of Guilford County School Children.

Thank Yous' go out to the Soldiers that have not given up the fight against Dr. Griers Socialists movement.

Even though the fight gets tough and seems as if there is no way to defeat this irrational dictator,we must continue our duty to bring down the "IRON CURTAIN" in Guilford County.

sc,

Are we to assume from your previous post that you are satisfied with the "Lottery Plan"? It appears that you are, and, for the life of me, I fail to understand why. Can you point to one single positive outcome that has occurred in the past year under the plan? Student achievement has not improved and gives no appearance of doing so soon. Violence is increasing dramatically. Two of the three "High Point" school principals have left their post without even finishing the first year. Terry Grier had to devise a plan to strip Andrews and Central from its Title I status and associated funding to avoid the deadly "school improvement" sanctions. What was proclaimed as the coming of world-class magnet programs has declined into mediocre and ineffective "choice schools". Terry Grier failed to acquire magnet funding for the magnet programs because no one knew the magnet grant rules. Where is there even one victory to proclaim in this travesity?

As has been reported by others earlier, an alternative plan was submitted to the Board before the ill-fated approval of the "Lottery Plan". Those that you consider idle critics did much work to be positive and bring forward a viable alternative. If you were at the 2/14/05 Board Meeting, you would have heard Alan Duncan acknowledge that an alternative plan had been submitted. His judgment was that the plan wouldn't work because the board had no assurance that sufficient students would apply for the magnet plans to make tham viable (They won't come voluntarily, but we can make them come with a lottery?) Well, maybe he was right; the proposed world-class magnet programs were just a figment of some fuzzy thinking. What students would have voluntarily changed schools to attend a mediocre watered-down program that we have today in the "choice schools"?

So, before you speak in an uniformed manner and criticize others for hate speech, perhaps you should learn a little more about the issues and the solutions being presented by these critics. The situation in GCS today is deteriorating rapidly, and I do not see any glimmer of hope that things will turnaround in the near future. If you see some positives that should be highlighted about what is happening in the "High Point" schools in the last year, I am sure all of these critics would like to hear about them. But, be sure to have your facts right with good documentation before you advance them.

I took it upon myself to take this post from "Thinking Outloud" and bring it over here to the Chalkboard. It's LOOOOOOOng but worth the read. We need more Melanie's in Guilford county.

Way to go Melanie, I don't know you from Adam, but you are good people, I can tell!!

Re: Allen Johnson's 4 lessons learned:

1) Lots of parents of lots of different kinds of kids opposed the 9th grade academy at Grimsley. Interesting that Allen attributes the disagreement to the "have's" vs. the "have-nots." Perhaps he'd care to speak w/ the mom of a child coming to Grimsley for the lifeskills classes who was afraid her child would be shortchanged by the academy, or the poor grandmother who came to the parent forum even though she was not comfortable speaking out about her disapproval of the 9th grade academy when the rest of us were "using all those big words." When you try to reduce a substantive disagreement to a simple formula you miss a lot of people who don't fit your pre-conceived ideas. Polarizing a community with simplistic labels is an easy way to respond to criticism or disagreement that avoids the uncomfortable work of trying to listen and understand what folks are actually saying. Grimsely parents opposed the 9th grade academy for lots of reasons, one of them being that it seemed to us to be the wrong remedy for the problems our kids are having. The literature about 9th grade academies talks a lot about 9th graders havng trouble with the transition to high school, but the problem that was identified at Grimsley was that we have many kids failing and dropping out who have struggled in school for years. How is that a transition problem? Moreover, the solution we were looking at held very little promise for our struggling students: just putting kids on teams (just like they've been on and failed with for the 3 previous years in middle school)seemed to us to hold very little promise of educating those kids. When you are a 16 year old reading on a 2nd grade level what you need is serious, focused, just about one-on-one intervention with a good reading teacher. Would the grant provide that? No. The grant does not pay for teachers. There is no magic in a 9th grade academy; it is the content of what the school does that might make a difference in a kid's life, not the structure of the school.
It is true that completely breaking up large urban high schools into academies or smaller learning communities holds some promise for those totally failing high schools, and it is those schools (in Baltimore, NYC, Philadelphia, etc.)that are the subject of many of the SLC studies.
Again, we just didn't think that was what Grimsley needed.
On a personal level, I love it when people who don't know me from Adam dismiss me as a "have" as opposed to a "have not." It's been a long road from the children's home where I grew up, but I am grateful indeed to now be included with the "have's." I just also happen to think the "have-nots" deserve to have some real effort made to give them the one ticket out of one category and into the other, the ticket that made all the difference in the world for me: an education.

2) I don't quite understand Allen's "money talks" lesson. The small learning communities grant in the High Point schools is going to fund a lot of consultant hours, as well as travel and sub pay for teachers. It does look like it will put some materials in the classrooms also. But it won't pay for teachers, and teachers are the most powerful and important piece of education. So how important is the extra grant money, and at what cost does it come? Personally, I'd rather hear some real leadership talking around here than money doing the talking.

3)Now we parents have gone from being "have's" to "disgruntled parents!" (How about "thinking parents?") Yes, we all need to be engaged in finding solutions, because there aren't a lot of them out there, are there? If it were easy to fix the problems of students who fail and drop out, I believe some of our excellent administrators and teachers and ministers and other community leaders would have already done just that. Many parents at Grimsley and elsewhere would want to be part of those solutions, but are increasingly getting the message that their concerns about their own children are not recognized as legitimate or worthy of concern. Here's a novel idea: Those of us who seek answers might do well to work to bring parents from different backgrounds together around what unites them, as opposed to driving them apart based upon their differences. .

4)Communication wasn't the problem so much as the process was the problem at Grimsley. The administration knew last summer that we had received this grant to study smaller learning communities. The grant calls for the whole school community to be involved in any plans to restrucure the school -- parents, students, teachers and even the outside community. Yet nothing was said about the SLC grant or its implications until late December, when a small committee was chosen (not elected)to come up with what turned out to be a pre-determined remedy for the school: the 9th grade academy. The process called for very little real opportunity for input from the school community because the time was too short. Faculty members felt they were not being listened to, and most parents as well as students knew absolutely nothing about it. Then we found out, after finally obtaining a copy of the grant we were unwittingly working toward satisfying, that the 9th grade academy was only the beginning: if we wanted in the grant, we had to come up with a plan to put the whole school into smaller learning communities by the end of the grant period. As the experience in High Point shows, it's no problem for the central administration to come up with ways to re-design schools without much input from anyone - but we didn't think that should happen again. The Grimsley proces was antithetical to what the grant speaks of as necessary and vital to the school reform's success -- having a school community involved and supportive. If recognizing that makes me disgruntled, then I'll cheefully plead guilty.
And of course, "teacher" may be right in the end.

Posted by: Melanie Rodenbough at March 14, 2005 11:27 PM

Post a comment

Holy CRAP Chalkboard friends!

This topic will never end! I think this High Point school stuff needs a theme song.

Continue on....just thought I needed to interject since I've been away for a bit.

Sherry, Buck, Slak, and other "Soldiers",

Let me come out from under my rock to address your questions.

"What have you done"? ...I've written a letter to a blog trying to get people to stop complaining and start acting.

"And please do not waste the keystrokes calling my comments hate when I am merely looking out for the best interests of my daughter and the similar interests of 1000's of others who share the same feelings." ...You mean the similar interests of the upper class people who want to attend their upper class school and not be bothered by those other schools? Some people in High Point don't even have a CHOICE to buy in your neighborhood.

"It is comments from people like you that reminds me, from time to time I must praise the good lord above that there are still people out there fighting for the rights of Guilford County School Children"...it seems to me that you're only interested in the "rights" of kids in the Southwest zone. The ---- with the rest of us.

I understand that you accused the school board of diving High Point. Instead, I'm inclined to think that it's YOU that has divided our city.

Southwest parents are not the center of the universe. It's not all about you--it's about all of us. If you hate the plan so much, come up with a better one that benefits EVERYBODY in High Point. When you gave your alternate plan to the school board, did you let everyone else know what the plan was? (Because maybe I was under my rock that day and didn't see anything in the paper, in any flyers, in any stores--or was your plan outlined only to Southwest parents?) Maybe you would have gotten additional support.

Although you have had some good points in some of your arguements, your attitude and that negative ABC campaign turned a lot of people off. Maybe if you channeled your energy into something positive, you might receive more support from a unified High Point.

SC,

I'm assuming that you live in High Point? Then welcome to the mess.

You claim to want to put a stop to the animosity and negative words, yet you begin each post with an attack.

Take a pill and come back in the morning.

sc,

Did you bother to read my previous post to you before you spouted off again?

1) I informed you that crticis had submited an alternate plan to the Board before the decision on the lottery plan was approved. So, if you want to know more about what was in that plan, I'm sure that there are those responsible who would be glad to provide you a copy. And, for your information, it would have been a win-win for everyone in High Point. No winners and losers. I can also tell you that those people have been at many board meetings and have communicated thousands of times with board members on the issues to no avail or response from the board. Your mighty effort to make one brief post to chastise the critics seems minute in comparison.

2) I challenged you earlier to identify even one positive outcome of the lottery plan, which your last post doesn't provide. Writing one short post blasting the critics does not qualify as getting involved in my book. Again, if you are serious about this issue, tell us how it has benefited anyone in High Point, especially Andrews' students. I don't really think that you can.

Finally, you say that the critics and ABC should have channeled its efforts into something positive, and they would have enjoyed a unified front in High Point. Please let us know what that positive channeling would have been. We'd all like to know what you have to say that is helpful. As you would say, anyone can make hate posts without actually doing anything positive to solve the problem. If you have a plan, we'd like to see it.

SC,

Are you a fake, a phoney, a ficticious person???? I'd bet my lowly-paid, teacher salary that you are a board member. I think I could even guess which one.

YOU are what webloggers refer to as a TROLL. Now scamper off like a good little troll.

sc,

One final response to you. You made this statement, "You mean the similar interests of the upper class people who want to attend their upper class school and not be bothered by those other schools? Some people in High Point don't even have a CHOICE to buy in your neighborhood."

Have you ever heard of Title VIII of the Civil Rights Act of 1968 (Fair Housing Act)? In case you have not, the essence of it is that it "prohibits discrimination in the sale, rental, and financing of dwellings, and in other housing-related transactions, based on race, color, national origin, religion, sex, familial status (including children under the age of 18 living with parents of legal custodians, pregnant women, and people securing custody of children under the age of 18), and handicap (disability)."

So, you have a right to buy in the neighborhood by federal law. Whether you make that CHOICE or not is simply a function of your residential preferences. Nothing is stopping you.

Teacher,

Actually, SC is welcome here, as are you and everyone else who posts. This isn't a members-only club.

SC

Let me see if I can answer your points:

"I've written a letter to a blog trying to get people to stop complaining and start acting"
Trust me when I say people are discussing not complaining and they are going to take action sooner, rather than later.

"You mean the similar interests of the upper class people who want to attend their upper class school and not be bothered by those other schools? Some people in High Point don't even have a CHOICE to buy in your neighborhood"
I picked my neighborhood based on proximity to work. If I remember right these "upper class schools" you talk about came later. I've been in the neighborhood since the mid 70's please don't try and tell me otherwise.

As far as a "CHOICE" to buy in my neighborhood there are plenty of choices, the house accross the street, 2 houses a block away and 2 more around the corner. It's springtime when housing choices are plentiful.

I take it you didn't mean "CHOICE" SC, but rather meant OPPORTUNITY. As long as it is not squandered, there is plenty of opportunity to go around. Since you take exception to opinion that you perceive at complaining I'll let you know that I take exception to the opportunties that I perceive that you have squandered and then whine about.

"it seems to me that you're only interested in the "rights" of kids in the Southwest zone. The ---- with the rest of us."
If you are referring to when the Southwest Middle School gets had their free speech suppressed last year then all I can say is "guilty as charged." I thought there was a lunch counter somewhere in Guilford County as a multi-million dollar testimony to suppression and equality, but I could be wrong.

"I understand that you accused the school board of diving High Point. Instead, I'm inclined to think that it's YOU that has divided our city"
The School Board is "diving" High Point? If you mean pushing the city right off a cliff you are exactly right and are definitely on to something.

If this was not a Fruedian slip but rather a typo and you did mean divided the city, then you stand to be corrected. I believe Main Street divides the city east and west, thus Hwy 68 changes from Eastchester to Westchester when you cross Hwy 311. I further believe that the Norfolk & Southern railroad divides the city by north and south.

"Southwest parents are not the center of the universe. It's not all about you--"
You are correct again, the southwest parents are not the center of the universe; however they are not to be faulted for rightly believing that their children are in their own little corner of the world.

"Although you have had some good points in some of your arguements, your attitude and that negative ABC campaign turned a lot of people off. Maybe if you channeled your energy into something positive, you might receive more support from a unified High Point"
I prefer to look at this as convinced 48% of the people in Guilford County that Dot Kearns was the wrong answer for the children of Guilford County. I am not discouraged by the outcome of the election, the other 3% will not be hard to get. You'll see that if Dot's lap puppet decides to run again in '06.

Wow, long posts require Spellcheck and grammar check. Take out the "gets" and put in "kids" in part of my response about kids.

SC said: "You mean the similar interests of the upper class people who want to attend their upper class school and not be bothered by those other schools? Some people in High Point don't even have a CHOICE to buy in your neighborhood."

I took a part-time job and my husband took a part-time job in addition to his full-time job so that we could live in our $130,000 house in what used to be the SW district. Please don't generalize. We are hardly upper class.

Bruce--

In fact, I'm starting to think it might be a members-only club. I don't think these people realize that some folks can't even afford a house in North High Point. I'm very glad that KG and her spouse could make ends meet, but not every family has two parents.

I never said that I liked the Lottery Plan. (Never saw the alternate plan presented to the school board--maybe in the future, they will share the alternate plan with you and you could maybe print it in the paper.)

I sure don't have a plan to solve this problem, but I wish I did, and I wish I saw some more possible solutions on this board. But I think when you get caught up one of side of the tracks, it's hard to see over to the other side.

I'm going to leave these folks to their opinion--because I'm wasting my time. I really don't think it matters what I say if it is in contrast to their opinion.

Peace, Bruce.

sc,

Sorry, to see you bow out of this discussion. I sure wish that you had taken me up on my challenge to just identify and document one positive thing that has come of the Lottery Plan before you go. Just one thing that we can all agree upon that it has accomplished to benefit every student in High Point. We've identified a lot of problems and issues that the Lottery Plan has created, so it would have been nice if you could have given us one, just one, positive outcome of the plan. I suspect that you haven't, because you can't provide that which doesn't exist.

sc, you say that you don't have any plan to solve this problem. Which problem is that? Many of the critics feel that the problem "is" the lottery and simply sending it to never-never land would be the final solution to the problem. Let the choice schools stand as they are, make them the best that they can be so High Point students will scramble to get admitted to the schools. Create an open enrollment policy in the three schools, staff the schools with qualified teachers, enforce the district's discipline policy, and let the students enjoy the learning experience. If you do all of that, there is no problem. Problem solved!

sc, if you will post your true email address in this site, I will send you the alternate plan that was submitted to the Board that was disregarded.

SC,

I think you are confusing the "chalk" board with the "school" board.

I appreciate that you want answers, and if you don't like the lottery plan as you say, why aren't YOU asking these questions of the SCHOOLBOARD? They are ELECTED to do the job of coming up with a better plan. They didn't like the plan that the citizens brought to the table, why are you not insisting that THEY fix the problem?

You say that you are looking for possibe solutions on "this" board. Please go to the SCHOOL BOARD to have your questions answered. I'm not being sarcastic. Really, the more people that demand answers of our school board, the better.

I think you might better be able to feel our frustration when you find that even THEY, our trusty, elected officials, have NO answers.

I agree too with "Richard" from ?East or West when he suggested another Weaver-type school for High Point. But this VERY exact idea was proposed to the board and they all just stare at you like you are standing there naked or something.

I'm sorry that you've been put through the chalkboard hazing, but you have to understand that we are STRESSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! of our school board toying with us, our schools and our kids.

Thanks for trying to understand. It really shouldn't matter *who* lives *where* We should all demand schools worthy of sitting in 7-8 hours a day.

teachdr,

Where is "Thinking Out Loud" that Melanie's post came from - great work!

SC,

I hope you are still out there. I am just catching up on all the posts today. Regarding some of your comments. "some folks can't even afford a house in North High Point" and "not every family has two parents". Whose fault is that?

Just because a person "cannot afford" to live some place is that any reason to destroy a school by watering down their curriculum and shipping their kids on a 1 hour plus bus ride? If people are good citizens, work hard and are honest people, should they be begrudged where they live and for what they have worked hard to achieve?

By the same token, is it right to put the Andrews kids on a 1 hour bus ride and give them classes in mime, fingerpainting and puppetry because a FRL status makes them likely candidates for the "Arts". All kids regardless of income level deserve a good, basic education. Should some of them be pushed in a specialty field at age 13 that could screw up their future by the luck of the draw?

I had heard from many 8th grade parents who attended separate little meetings while the "Choice" Plan was being discussed heard racial inuendos being cast and from sources you wouldn't believe. This was very hurtful to many SW parents and rightly so as these were simply untrue statements.

Just because a person moves close to a school, job, shopping, a church and their kid makes friends and connections and has a stable, happy environment and they don't want their kid on a bus for 2 hours a day, does that make them a racist? I THINK NOT. This is American. You can live where you want.

The Alternative Solutions Plan was presented the Sunday evening at the SW Forum before the vote. It was written by three very knowledgable, dedicated and positive people; involved parents. Along with that a 2 inch thick binder which represented thousands of research hours was presented to each board member. Since that time, the commissioners have had a copy of the Solutions Proposal. The original proposal included a map with no satellite zones, etc. Which, by the way, for years the school board told us they were ILLEGAL when redistricting was discussed leading up to 1999. Finally the night of "the vote" on 2/10/04 (aka "Black Tuesday" because of the shadow that has since been cast on High Point) or around that time, the school's attorney told us they are NOT ILLEGAL after all. Wow, what a surprise!

As far as the elections and a negative campaign. I don't think 48% sounds like a divided community to me or the high percentage of votes an unknown received running against Kris C. Not too shabby. It makes a very strong statement. But that is history now. People can improve on strategies and be ready for 2006 which is not far away.

Back to the Alternative Solutions Proposal. Here is a cut & paste copy for you. The Arts magnet being at Central was flexible. It was discussed at length with a board member prior to the vote on 2/10/04 and could have been put at Andrews.

This proposal was flexible and a Win-Win for all, but certain members of the School Board had their own agendas. And now you see where we are. CUT & PASTE BEGINS:

Solutions
“A Real Choice Alternative”
To address overcrowding and diversity

I. Immediate Solutions
A. Create TRUE magnets at Central and Andrews -Apply for Federal Magnet money for these two schools only. Leave present school district lines in place, to serve as home schools, with some modifications (see #3.)
1. Federal Magnet Grant to include for both schools:
a. Retain CP classes at both schools. Use magnet money to hire additional teachers whose goal is to move students from levels I and II to levels III and IV.
b. Line item for one-on-one tutors. This is proven to work at the elementary school level and there is promising evidence that high school students can benefit as well.
c. Hire qualified AP teachers and plan to retain them at their present position for the first few years. This would ensure that if even only a few students wish to take an offered AP class, it is available to them! As students naturally move up in their learning capacity, the classes will gradually fill up.

B. High School programs would be exciting and diverse – meeting the needs of ALL students:
1. Central: Arts Magnet AND IB Program
a. Arts program makes sense at Central because:
1. Proximity to downtown area and local theaters, etc.
2. Children performing would be in the heart of the city, where most performing arts schools are located, rather than a suburban setting.
3. Penn-Griffin makes an excellent feeder school into this program. The success there will funnel into the arts program at Central. Students could strengthen their talents as a result of positive experiences gained at the arts middle school and make a smooth transition to high school.
b. Cutting edge arts program to include innovative ideas such as:
1. “Artist in Residence” (presently done in L.A.) where a local artist partners with the school and provides invaluable expertise and skill to the high school curriculum. Examples could be:
a. Local dance company could choreograph school musicals. The school design department could make sets and costumes!
b. Local actors could assist students in screenplay writing etc.
c. Make-up artists could teach classes on theatre make-up.
2. Partnering with other educational institutions:
a. UNCG partnership in theater department--
would allow the college students to act as teachers and mentors to the high school students.
b. Local theaters could partner and allow the school to use its theatre facilities (i.e. High Point University, High Point Theater.) until the program is PROVEN SUCCESSFUL and construction of a school theater would be scheduled.
c. I.B. program remain and be strengthened through the use of federal dollars from the magnet grant.
1. International dance programs can easily be intertwined with foreign language curriculum.

2. Andrews: Academy AND Technology Magnet
a. Rigorously promote the Academy
1. Mass marketing and informational sessions to accentuate the value of this program!
2. Sponsor middle school fieldtrips to academy or other magnets to foster excitement for the programs!
3. Leave Academy intact at Andrews – do not move it to another location. This will allow a sense of community and interaction between all students at the facility. Put a three year growth plan into action to chart the Academy’s progress!
b. Cutting edge technology at Technology Magnet and providing real skills to the next generation at the Academy.
1. Partner with business and community leaders to access technology for magnet; i.e., local business providing computers, equipment, etc.
c. High achieving children will get the challenging classes and specialized training they crave.
d. Low achieving students will get the extra help they need.
1. Smaller class size is a PROVEN way to raise achievement for these children. This situation also helps maintain discipline.
2. Hire additional tutors to provide additional help for the child who needs it. Also encourage community involvement through mentoring/tutoring organizations such as Big Brother/Big Sisters.
3. College prep classes geared to help level I and II students become level III and IV.

3. Southwest: Traditional high school
a. Retains both the core/elective classes and the AP/honors classes of a traditional high school.
b. Additions to high school building will accommodate future growth of the school – in the areas where growth is occurring in the city!!
1. 7.8 million dollars allocated from recent bond
2. $5 million that was going to be used to purchase the Sara Lee building to house the Academy.
3. Subtotal would be 13 million to address overcrowding.
4. Plus additional money available from Gates Foundation and private donors (per Dot Kearns)

II. Continued Solutions
A. Recent new developments are “annexed” into Andrews school district. – see exhibit “A” (next page.)

1. Developments in North High Point approved within the last few months are contiguous and will add the following to Southwest School District population (5 year plan for future growth):
a. Piedmont Crossing (300 acres at Barrow Road to Willard Dairy road)1000-1200 homes.
b. Addition to Ashton Oaks (Kendale Road) – 250 homes.
c. New Development At Willard Dairy Road – 250 homes.
These new contiguous developments