News-Record.com

Let,s see......

Dr. Grier takes his budget proposal to Alan Duncan,who in turn takes it to Bruce Davis,who....

Could this be another episode of the "Three Stooges"?

Slak,

Get your wallet out because this group of Commissioners is going to give Grier everything he wants and then some. The 3 new Democrats are quite a collection of sock puppets.

My only hope is that Gibson remembers that he told Grier that he likes his hair style because it hides his horns well. (Quote in Rhino about a month or 2 ago).

Jennifer,

Is it possible for you to find out the difference between an options school and a magnet school? I presented this question not long ago the BOE and never did receive an answer other than if federal funding is involved the schools are referred to as magnets.

I found this response to be lame at best and certainly not acceptable to a parent whom children attend schools with a status that changes with a toggle key.

The Taxpayers of Guilford County should not allow another budget increase for our School superintendents'self serving programs.

Grier has proven time and again,when money gets tight,he spends like a drunken sailor on shore leave.

I wish our County Commissioners would stop the lynching of our tax director long enough to request an outside AUDIT of Guilford County School System.

Sodexo,Rancho Mirage,Montesorri Furniture,Nova Southern University,Crossroads Ministries,etc......

How many red flags have to be stuck up your ]&%% before you see the light.

Maybe the kickbacks are spread around well enough that nobody cares.

Our Superintendent is a Con Man,half our school board is out of tune with reality,and our county commissioners can't stop fighting long enough to make any pertinent decisions.

This County is quickly becoming the laughing stock of the entire country.

Whoops..Gotta Go pay some more taxes..see ya.

Pilfered citizen,

I'm confused, where did those red flags go? And how many do you have? ELEVEN did you say? I hope 12, so Grier can have one too.

That picture is priceless.

Adding 8 school buses for High Point indicates poor planning last year and this year. So we spend money again to correct what should have been known last year.

Hiring two central office positions to deal with appeals and suspensions. Could the problem be the existing policies of the Guilford County school system? Correct the policies and watch the appeals and suspensions decline. Nope let us swell the budget some is the solution Grier wants.

Hire twenty people to help teachers get planning periods. Come on, why not put a call out for unpaid volunteers!

Grier wants fourteen permanent substitute teacher/testing coordinator positions from the 740 teaching assistants for 5,000 more each. Either the teaching assistants aren't doing enough work or the teachers and principals don't know how to give tests or find substitute teachers. Ask for unpaid volunteers again or maybe just possible use central office administrators. Grier is slick with this one.

Gee, my heart goes out to them. Guidance counselors have been shackled with testing duties. Are there not enough teachers, teaching assistants, principals, administrators, coordinators to give tests to the students. I know this sounds weird but I going to try it. Local colleges are training teachers, retired individuals could help, volunteers might assist if we only ask them. Sounds like you don't want to test and if you do test penalize the tax payer for making you test.

"We share this information every year," Grier said. "People get angry and say 'You're trying to pressure us.' No; we're trying to inform you. ... It's not smoke and mirrors. This is reality and we have to face it." Mr. Grier it depends on what side of the facts you see or don't see. Your perception just might be valid in your view of the world. Taxes are not a bottomless pool for your usage is another realistic view. Don't want to pressure you but your product is growing beyond the bounds of rational thought.

I'm not sure about the substitute teacher thing(why it is needed), but I do know that for major testing (eog's and others) that you have to have a trained person in charge of everything from handing the papers out to reading the instructions-yes there is an exact way to read the instructions and they can not be changed---as a person that has volunteered (proctored) many times at elementary school I found it hard to believe that a person had to be trained to read instructions. On the other side of that, if your child failed the eog's and you found out a volunteer was in charge, how would you feel? I think alot of this is done to protect the intergrity of the test. I can think of alot of area that volunteers can help, but many schools have no volunteers at all!

Ronald,

You have hit the nail on the head again. Create the problem; then whine for more money to fix the problem. The circle never ends.

I have thoroughly enjoyed reading your website and your research.

Many of the best schools are not fixed by continuting to poor money into them.

It seems like the pattern is GC is give more money; that that doesn't work, try a new program, hire outside consultants and pay even more money; if that doesnt' work; nix that program; create more positions to fix those problems.

It never ends.

Debora is right about having a trained person overseeing the tests.

A few years ago, there was a big testing scandal at Andrews High, where a couple of teachers had swiped copies of the tests and gave the questions out to students ahead of time. However, they couldn't have gotten away with it if the testing coordinators had provided the appropriate oversight.

Security on the EOG/EOC tests is tight for good reason - a lot is riding on the outcome (teacher pay bonuses, student promotions, a school's reputation, etc.) So I doubt school officials would be very comfortable in putting volunteers in charge of the process.

On the other hand, I certainly have talked to many guidance counselors who bemoan the fact they have to spend so much time on testing - time that could be spent counseling students.

And Ronda, I'm not sure that there is a clear-cut difference between magnet schools and options schools or schools of choice. I've heard the terms used interchangeably by school officials.

Even the "magnet schools get federal funds" definition doesn't always hold up. Morehead Elementary never received federal funds and it's been classified as a magnet school since the 1980s.

Bruce,

You may not feel that there is a clear-cut difference between magnet schools and schools of choice, but GCS sure believes there is, and I guess if they think there is a difference, then there is a difference. Following you will see some quotes from an email from Amy Holcome, Director of Federal Programs, GCS:

"The High Point Choice Plan schools are not magnet schools. The News & Record donates a Magnet School Program Guide to us every year. Because the HP Choice schools are not magnets, we do not include them in this supplement. Additionally, the deadline for applying to the HP choice schools has passed so it would not be advantageous to list those at this point."

" There is some confusion over the term ?magnet.? The High Point Choice Schools are classified as ?choice programs,? and are not federally funded as are magnet programs. Magnet schools are attended through application. Choice Schools are, as you know, attended through a whole different process."

So, does Amy Holcomb not know what she is talking about? She is the Director of Federal Programs for GCS. She appears to be very specific that there is a difference. If you can help us understand where the ambiguity is, it would be appreciated. GCS is handling the application process differently for the Choice Schools in High Point, so there is a clear-cut difference here. Ronda is right.

Teddy,

What I am saying is there are mixed messages coming from GCS.

The "magnet schools = federal funding" definition doesn't always hold true. Morehead Elementary is and always has been classified as a "magnet school." Same thing with Jones Elementary. Read the descriptions of either school and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Neither receives federal magnet money for their programs. Both programs have been in existence for 15+ years. GCS didn't get its first magnet grant until around 2002.

Bruce,

So, what I think that we are saying is that GCS uses it's terminology and semantics to its own advantage, where it chooses to do so, ust like so many other things. It is choosing to not call the High Point schools magnets, so they can handle the application process differently. It's all about GCS controlling students and using them like pawns on a chess board, as they need to do to achieve its own goals. Which, by the way, have nothing to do with educating children.

Home run for Teddy Ballgame!

Bruce,

Think you might have misunderstood my post...I was told the term magnet school is used if federal funding is involved.

The High Point High Schools are now referred to as "option" schools.

My question…what is the difference?

There must be difference; only certain programs within Central, Andrews, and Southwest were listed during the magnet fair.

Ronda,

I'm sure you were told that the term magnet school is used if the school gets federal funding. But what I'm saying is that isn't always true.

The problem is GCS uses the terms "magnet school" and "choice school" inconsistently and, sometimes, interchangeably. So you really can't say, "Here's the difference between the two," because the terms aren't used consistently.

Go to the GCS website and click on "magnet schools." On the list, you'll see Morehead Elementary listed as a magnet school. And this is from the website (I added the ALL CAPS for emphasis): "Bring out your creative side through our culturally diverse expressive arts MAGNET program...Morehead, the expressive arts MAGNET school."

So it's clear that GCS - or at least someone at the central office - considers Morehead to be a magnet school.

However, Morehead doesn't get federal magnet funds. Never has.

In fact, this was the center of a huge controversy back in 2002. The school board voted to move Morehead's arts program, which dates back to the 1980s, to Peeler Elementary, with the primary reason being that Peeler qualifies for federal magnet grants and Morehead doesn't.

However, Morehead parents mobilized and fought the decision. They correctly pointed out that Morehead was one of the district's most academically successful schools (and it still is) with a racially diverse student body and an award-winning PTA. "Why mess up a good thing?" they asked.

They succeeded in getting their magnet program/choice program/whatever you want to call it program restored - paid for with local money, not a federal grant.

Given the "magnet schools get federal money" definition, Morehead (and several other schools) should be classified as choice schools, but they are called magnet schools.

I think the key words Bruce used is "someone at Central Office".

Haven't many of you found this to be true - it depends on who you talk to and what day you talk to them.

Remember Kay who gave a super speech several board meetings back regarding the curriculum for the Education program at SWH and questions she had. It was about getting out of the program once you were a freshman because it seems the program was not what was promised. She concluded by saying someone at Central Office told her, "I know like we are making this up as we go along. I guess that is because we are" or some words to that effect.

It depends on who you talk to.

I got it:

"Choice" school means you have NO choice. (seriously)--you HAVE to play lotto.

"Magnet" or "Option" means anyone, from any part of the county can apply.

Back to the original subject of this strand - the budget. See N & R today - great letter by Cheryl Smith regarding separation of church and state and $45,000 spent so far to may Crossroad Ministries who teaching are very questionable, to say the least. The letter is a MUST READ. Then go to Jennifer F's great chart on some of the highlights on budget requests. $500K is being requested for someone who in the past has been said to teach that white people are sinners; alcoholics; spoiled and pampered; benefit from others's who suffer - all this from the Tuscaloosa Times from 8 university professors who protested the Crossroads workshops on their campus. Do we want $500,000 of our tax dollars for our kids to learn this???

Next workshops are 4/21 and 23 per the letter and are open to the public. We need a time and place if anyone knows. I remember reading in the Rhino that the press was refused before even though it was supposed to be an open meeting.

We need to stay aware of this issue.

It is high time that schools run as a business!!!!! There is no information provided that says more money cures any thing but political pockets. A democracy is a great freedom but when it finds a way to vote money it corrupts badly. We don't need Grier any more he needs to leave town ASAP!!!!!

An important thing to remember, Terry Grier is here because the majority of the school board wants him here. He is a GCS employee. They hired him. The school board makes the final decisions - the buck stops with them on school issues. Good example: Craven fiasco.

The school board gets some of their funds from the county which is approved by the commissioners.

In theory, the commissioners and the school board work for you, the tax payers. You can have your say at the polls; by speaking out at meetings and writing letters. Granted, they only listen to what they want and do what they want in the end but.....

I sure hope you all will remember all this discussion come next election.

Ralph,

My husband always says:

"Power corrupts and absolute power corrects absolutely."

Something like that - I know he borrowed it.

Bruce,

here is what I was told

"Magnet schools are attended through application. Choice Schools are, as you know, attended through a whole different process. "

Ronda

Bruce,

Where is your quote "magnet schools get federal money" coming from?

Ronda

From a couple of earlier posts: "if federal funding is involved the schools are referred to as magnets."

Also: "The High Point Choice Schools are classified as 'choice programs' and are not federally funded as are magnet programs."

That is a pretty good rule of thumb. But it's not always applicable, as the Morehead example shows. And I've heard people call Morehead and other locally-funded magnets as "schools of choice."

Help me out with this one: I don't quite understand why there is so much debate about how GCS defines magnet schools and choice schools.

I mean, it's clear the High Point high schools operate under a different set of rules, no matter if they call them magnets or choice schools or lottery schools or, as Barbara Ann might say, fat chance schools. Is there some reason (legal, political or otherwise) why it matters what GCS calls these schools?

Bruce,

First, I am not trying to argue with you I am trying to determine if the rest of Guilford County is being short changed by not being able to apply to our "world class" schools.

The point is they were referred to as "magnet schools" until the federal funding was rejected

Therefore, the question remains were the High Point High Schools only being referred to as magnets pending federal funding.

If federal funding had been approved, would the High Point High Schools be "magnet schools"?

If they were classified as magnet schools would all students in, our district (Guilford County Schools) be permitted to apply.

Ronda

After watching the replay of the Board Meeting today, I am confused.

A common complaint of The Board is that at budget time, they have a very small amount of money in which to allocate to the things that they feel are needed in order to make our schools successful. The talk is that many things are mandated by the state and other expenses are related to things out of their control (fuel, heat, etc.)

Am I being to simplistic in thinking that every vote that they make during the year has a direct impact on the amount of budgeted dollars? A "yes" vote on The High Point Plan was a vote to reduce the dollars that could be spent elsewhere. A "no" vote on using Craven allowed dollars to be spent elsewhere. The list could continue............

Have Guilford County voters elected a board that thinks they can make decisions all year that have no economic impact on the budget?

In my home, we have a certain amt. of dollars to use wisely or unwisely. If fuel bills go up, we don't go out to eat as often. If fuel bills go down, maybe we can go out to dinner an extra time during the month.

Where is the accountability? The greatest lesson I was ever taught is that with every action, there is a consequence - either positive or negative.

How can we educate Guilford County voters about the spending of their tax dollars?

Kay,
You are correct about the votes having a impact on the budget! Of course it does, but unfortunately no one seems to understand that. Anita Sharpe and Darlene Garrett routinely question about the money, but most of the board doesn't seem to worry about where the money comes from. Every new magnet school at Lincoln, Aycock, Early colleges etc planned this year, make costs go up-- transportation, equipment, hiring new teachers etc. No one asks who/what/where will the money come from, nor what will the standard school have to give up. You probably remember that it costs more than twice the amount to transport magnet school kids than neighborhood kids (not even including HP mess)--GCS has used bond money to build stages instead of getting rid of trailers... the list goes on!

Here is another GCS budget conundrum:
This week many teachers' assistants discovered that they were being moved to other schools or let go. In my school, we have assistants for K-2. These assistants also help with grades 3-5 during the day. Now, according to the paper today,

"extra employees would be hired to ensure that all fourth and fifth grade teachers get a 45 minute planning period."

Why are we getting rid of our teachers' assistants, when they could do this job without having to hire anyone new???? Teachers' assistants are (probably) the lowest paid GCS employees and do a tremendous amount of work and are truly assets to their schools.

Oh, I know you weren't trying to be argumentative, Ronda - I wasn't, either. I just was trying to understand where you were coming from and you explained it.

It's true that GCS applied for federal magnet money for the High Point reassignment plan. But to my knowledge, there never were any plans to open up Andrews, Central and Southwest to students from outside of High Point, even if the federal money came through. I can't recall it ever being discussed.

Yes, GCS magnet schools traditionally have been open to students from all across the county. But I think we can all agree that the HP reassignment plan has been a whole 'nother animal.

Whether you think it's a good idea or a bad idea, these three schools operate under a different set of rules than any other schools in the district.

I don't understand the new hires for planning time either. At our elementary school they already get 40 minutes off when the kids ar in 'specials'-- maybe this doesn't happen at each school. Dr Grier did say last night that the money would be used to hire teachers (spanish, art etc)

Not all elementary schools get Spanish at this time. I know Florence Elem had their chance from what I was told and it would have given teachers some more time; but the would have had to cut a teacher somewhere else. Kids at Colfax and Pilot Elementary Schools go to class for Spanish.

Some schools like SW Elementary do ALL their specials on the same day so the teachers do their grade level planning on that one day per week.

I find it ironic that it has been listed in the state rules for education that a second language will be provided in elementary school, at least it used to be that way.

When we moved here in 1996, my sister sent me this information from one of the government pubs that one of her subsidiary companies puts out of Washington. Sure enough, I called Raleigh and this was the case. But if the money is not there, the second language isn't provided. The rules may have changed since then.

It seems there are many ways to get by state mandates; another being the maximum number of students allowed per classroom.

The inconsistency from school to school in this county never ends.

I certainly agree the HP plan is a whole other animal...but WHY???

Our children are not being allowed the same privileges that the rest of the county's children do, in my opinion the administration/board has taken extreme measures to ensure we stay pigeon holed in this mess.

Soon as it came to light NCLB sanctions would enable students to opt out of non-choice high schools and attend their neighborhood school, the title I status was changed. That change not only redirected funding away from Andrews and Central but also took away the student's right to choose AGAIN!!

Our children cannot opt to stay at their neighborhood school like the rest of county...it's not right! my daughter has cried her eyes out for the friends that have to leave her and go to a different school. It's nuts her friends live a fews houses away from us or live a few steps from their neighborhood school.

School pride builds over years, it's experiences, it's memories, it's looking forward to the future and building on those memories and experiences, and "for now" it's over for Southwest and the rest of High Point.

High School is supposed to be fun and educational,and hope I never hear anyone from the administration/board say how important the freshman year is again. A mockery has been made of that statement!!!

Does North High Point have a school board representative that answers our questions and has concern for our children. If we do, who is it?someone please me give me his or her name!!

Terrina, do you have any appointments open?

Ronda,

I have also been pondering the reality that High Point has DIFFERENT SCHOOLS AND DIFFERENT RULES.

WHY? Can our children NOT learn the SAME as the kids in GREENSBORO?

I want the school board to explain the rationale behind creating a separate system of schools in High Point. Was the original merger of schools JUST for the money? It seems that they forgot that children and schools came along with that merger.

Ronda,

YOU GO GIRL! You have said it all. After hearing Mike G's passionate speech to the SB about how his family life is being destroyed by Guilford County Schools, I was upset all day. After he spoke, I turned the meeting off!

This is what disgusts me about the whole mess. They are ruining families's lives and they just don't care.

Rich,

You are right. It is about money; politics; past promises made; building up Central High School in a downtown urban area where people have gone private; hiding kids behind a bunch of numbers and not taking responsbility to educate the same children who they continue to fail. It is easier to just spread them out; hide them; look good for NCLB reasons and not actually educate them.

It starts way before high school. All the kids are being left behind.

It is truly a nightmare in the Twilight Zone District.

High Point is different because unlike the rest of Guilford County, they have two reps from downtown High Point who represent Central; not what 800+ parents came out to voice opposition about.

Ironically, this plan will kill High Point economically. It is happening as we all sit here and discuss the same things. What goes around; comes around and this will surely make full circle.

They have no ears!

Barbara Ann,
Thanks for that info about SW that is an interesting way to get a day of planning. Let me give you Summerfield's set up-- I would love to hear about other schools, don't the teachers already have free time during their 'specials'

At Summerfield, they don't have Spanish(have been trying to get it, but with budget cuts; no go)
The children go to PE, art, music, for 35 of so minutes once a week-- also they have guidance/media center/computer lab-- these rotate is some fashion so that each classroom has a 'special' daily. That is the real classrooms 'planning time' Now I would love it if the money would be spent for a spanish teacher (if they could be found)but my guess is that our school won't qualify for the money. I don't think the proposal calls for a teacher per elem. school so I am interested in learning the specifics.

Currently Summerfield will lose 7 of their 12 assistants; all of which have passed the NCLB test. All of which live in this area, none of which want to go anywhere else. Dr Grier said that the teachers would leave if we forced them to work somewhere they didn't want to; I am not sure why the TA's wouldn't also leave;;;; oh, yeah! that's the idea!

Deb,

I do know this. It has been the talk among the TA's for years that he wants to reduce the number used or spread the use around. I have seen their use getting leaner and leaner.

Most schools that I have subbed have the same specials: Art, Music, PE, Media and once in a blue moon Guidance and the teachers have planning time then.

I wouldn't like the specials all in one day; but some teachers do as they can do their grade level planning.

Last year Florence's PTA donated money to pay subs so teachers could to grade level planning during school time. The teachers were estatic.

Now on the other side of the spectrum....At the beginning of this school year, I subbed at Jamestown Elementary. Keep in mind this school used to have an excellent reputation.

I had 4th grade; 30 kids - the majority of the class with major behavior problems. There was no assistant. You couldn't go to the bathroom. You took them to lunch and ate with them and gulped your food in 10 minutes in between settling arguments and getting stuff for the kids. While I ate my lunch, another 4th grade teacher told me they did not have Art and another special - thus didn't get two of their breaks. This really hit home as the newspapers had just printed a story about 15 per classroom and the governor visiting.

Also, I think Jamestown is a Title I school. Where was there 15 per class - 30 is double that and over the state limit.

Darlene Garrett (you guys are so LUCKY to have her) got that school an Art teacher and the other special teacher within a few weeks and authorized subs for those classes in the meantime. She called me on the way to her kid's soccer game to tell me this. This is not even "her" school, that is how truly blessed you Northern folks are.

When I went back to sub again, the class was 24; one teacher had quit the 4th grade; the once I subbed for has now left; another is leaving next year.

I doubt I will sub there again; neither will others subs I know - this discussionf or another time.

For a school like Jamestown, I think they would just be happy to have an assistant to help handle the discipline issues and break up the fights, planning time would be too much to hope for.

First I find it interesting about the PTA donating money. I don't see how this is legally possible, as they are employees of the state and have benefits. I have been to many PTA workshops and never heard of this-- not doubting; just wonder how that worked within a 'legal' sense.

We know how lucky we are to have Darlene, but I fear that she is getting more and more discontented due being on the 'losing' side so ofen. I encourage her to keep doing what she knows is right for the children!

I know that with losing assistants, volunteers will be more needed, like you said; lunch duty, play ground supervision etc. I hope that the local PTA's are paying close attention, but I fear that the people on this blog are the only ones that even realize this! My friend and I were the only parents at the BOE meeting that stayed longer than the Sodexho talk. Kris Cooke wanted to know what we were doing there (in a nice joking way-and I mean that, I am not talking tongue in cheek) I would think that the real question was why aren't other people interested in what is going on.

Darlene is wonderful - I wish we could clone her. She seems to be the only one that understands how valuable teachers' assts are. When I watched some of the meeting, I noticed she tried to get an answer at to what other school sytems were doing on requiring "blanket coverage" for all TAs to be NCLB certified. As usual, she got no answer from Dr G.
It really flames me that GC required all TA to be certified and will be displacing those that aren't. Since Dr G/Board has changed the GC definition of Title 1 schools - how many teacher assts are there actually at Title 1 schools? How many people does it really apply to? When Dr G bumps the percentage up to 75% (and I feel sure that's coming down the road), I calculate there w/b less than 20 Title 1 schools. Many of these are already 15:1 in the lower grades - you are probably talking about much less than 100 people who have to be NCLB certified.
Just another example of Dr G's damage to the GC schools.
Just sign me,
Really Incensed (by) Grier's Obnoxious Rhetoric

Deb,

I don't know the ins and outs of how PTA paid for subs - I guess through a direct donation - not sure but I know I did hear that. The teachers really appreciated it.

About school board meetings, I believe know many people are still very interested and involved in different ways; always will be to help our kids. I just think folks are real tired of not being heard; tired of the SB playing games; tired of forums where there is to be "discussion" and then only few board members give and answer - only a big PR session; tired of no e-mails being returned.

In conclusion just tired of all the b.s. Some of us had have been at this for years.

I, too, was surprised by the lack of attendance but then again, seeing how it always seems to go, I was not.

Hello , I was at the BOE meeting and even being a grown man almost cried listening to Mike G's speech . It really hit home because I have exactly the same experiences. What puzzles me is why so few people were there? When I told people at my place of work that my daughter had been assigned to HPC they were genuinely shocked. I could see in their faces the thought:"this could happen to me". These were people who hadn't previously cared very much when I talked to them about what could happen.
So what about the ones that got re-assigned? Do you think they have all appealed and did not want their faces at the school board meeting .Were they thinking it might affect thier appeal?

Martin,

I did watch Mike G's speech on TV and cried off and on all day yesterday. I don't even have a kid who will get shipped off on a long bus ride. It just was so real and brought all the anger and frustration back over a political panel of 11 having so much power; many of them do not seem to care one bit how much hurt they have caused. I remember the night of Black Tuesday so vividly still and these kids so hurt.

You brought up a great point. I saw on the news last night (think it was last night) that many had appealed. This could very well explain the low turn-out. They have to go before the almighty school board and plead their case.

RIDICULOUS and shameful when you think of it. To have to beg for a school near your home. It is sad that it has come this far.

I too was surprised that there wasn't much fuss at the BOE- but it could be that they are appealing. I hope that people will come out in force if the eog's and final grades are as bad as the first semesters! No one can argue with facts and figures, of course I know the 'it takes several years' argument!

If you haven't picked up the 4/14 Rhino yet - this is a must. Go to page 12 for The Yostie Awards. See who received "Most Relentless Protesters" - bunch of Energizer Bunnies.....(hint has something to do with HPC) also of interest "Most Boring Place in Guilford County" Runner up: School Board meetings and Biggest Money Blackhole: The Guilford County Schools

There are some other great award categories too.

The runner up for Most Boring Place To Be might explain the lack of folks at the board meetings. The Most Relentless Protesters Award just proves good parents never quit!