News-Record.com

Bruce,

Of the 143 students who were admitted to Southwest as "Early Placement", how many were due to sibling preference and how many were due to Penn Arts preference?

Cheers!
Ian

That's a good question, Ian. Unfortunately, I don't know the answer.

This report doesn't break down why people chose early placement; it only gives the raw numbers per school. But I'll see if I can track down an answer for you and if I get one, I'll post it here at The Chalkboard.

Bruce, put some percentages alongside those figures on the "Zones" spreadsheet. It is very indicative of the "racism" that exists within the School Board.

Skippy,

I posted the spreadsheet exactly as it was written by Guilford County Schools - it is completely unedited or altered by the News & Record. But you (or anyone else) is certainly welcome to calculate some percentages and post them here.

Hey, I got the answer to Ian's question.

Of the 143 students who got into Southwest via early admission, 71 students got early admission using sibling preference. Another 61 got early admission because they have arts certificates from Penn-Griffin Middle and the remaining 11 got in for Southwest's Early College of Education program.

By the way, 32 students used the sibling preference exception to get early admission to Central, while 18 did so for Andrews.

Thanks to Sonya Conway, Guilford County Schools' executive director of district relations, for getting me this information so quickly.

Bruce,

Thanks for the quick response to the question. Another springs to mind - What constitutes an "arts certificate" from Penn Griffin? Can you go there for 1 semester and get one?

Cheers!
Ian

Bruce,

I apologize for the imposition of yet another follow on question, but here is goes.

Is there a limit to the number of Arts Certificates given (if so, how many) or can each and every 8th grade student at Penn Griffin achieve a certificate and thus early admittance into SWHS?

Cheers!
Ian

Two things that are obvious: The students of attendance zone Andrews, overwhelmingly don't want to go to Andrews. This is a sad state of affairs. The other thing is that the seats at Andrews aren't being filled: 9th Grade capacity is 434, assignments are 295. Only about 28%(roughly) of these children picked Andrews as 1st choice. I don't think that the BOE or GCS has given anyone (not just SW) a good choice. It seems that only 306 kids out of 1320 picked either Central or Andrews. That shows that we aren't offering anything near a 'quality' education to anyone! In theory the tech school at Andrews should be great-- lots of money spent on it--Does anyone have any input as to how those classes are going? We have over 5500 people in this county choose magnets, so if that was a quality program does anyone think they could entice students? Why not? My thought runs to the violence problem- as well as the argument for neighborhood schools-as well as long bus rides (although alot of magnet kids ride a long way)

Looking forward to ya'lls input.

Debora, that is a very good post you have written. I would sure like to see someone from the School Board give an answer.

Okay, get this:

I called over to Penn-Griffin and tried to get an answer to Ian's question: How many courses do you need to take in order to get an arts certificate? It seems to a simple, factual question. It's certainly not a loaded question like the old joke about, "So, sir, are you still beating your wife?"

I was transferred to a Penn-Griffin guidance counselor who said, "We usually let the county office handle these requests" and refused to answer my question. Not that he didn't know the answer; he wouldn't tell me.

So I said, "Well, it's not a big deal. A reader just wanted to know if you need three or four or whatever the number of arts classes. Can't you tell me?" The counselor said no and again referred me to the GCS communications office.

I sent an e-mail to the communcations office requesting an answer to this question. And I will get an answer: I've been doing this for nine years and I know a little about how to track down information.

But what about those parents who don't know how to track down information from the central office? What would they do? And why would a school employee be so closed-lipped about such a simple piece of information?

I'm not mad - asking questions is what I do for a living. But it is somewhat concerning that a taxpayer-supported public school is being so secretive, particularly with such a mundane, trivial piece of information.

Bruce: I already had the percentages I was just playing with you. I dropped the formulas into the spreadsheet. I'm not as literate when it comes to merging a spreadsheet back into this post, I guess I need to go to that technology program at Andrews, but here goes:

Andrews Placements by Zone
Andrews 63%
Central 10%
Southwest 27%

Central Placements by Zone
Andrews 15%
Central 60%
Southwest 25%

Southwest Placements by Zone
Andrews 24%
Central 21%
Southwest 51%
Other 4%

Zones for 1st Choice Applicants
Andrews 1st Choice
Andrews 72%
Central 22%
Southwest 6%

Central 1st Choice
Andrews 24%
Central 68%
Southwest 8%

Southwest 1st Choice
Andrews 22%
Central 18%
Southwest 57%
Other 3%

I will not offer you any other social commentary, but I will say this:

Given a choice the lowest percentage selection by either students at Central or Southwest was the school the furthest away.

However, forced between the next closest location, Andrews, or a commute of twice the distance, the majority of the students opted for the longer commute. What does that mean?

Bruce,

You are step on with your post.

Do I dare to read into it any form of, perhaps, a cover-up by the GCS CO? Surely the rules for acquiring an arts certificate were set prior to the lottery?

How would a perspective family of a 5th grader get this information if they were interested in their child attending Penn Griffin as a 6th grader? Isn't this the magnet application time of year?

Many obvious implications arise with your dialogue. I applaud your tenacity and look forward to additional information.

Thank you and
Cheers!
Ian

Bruce, you have been working hard today, so I left you a message over on "The Spotter".

Okay, after the weird "No comment" response from Penn-Griffin, Sonya Conway again was able to track down the information I need.

In order to receive an arts certificate from Penn-Griffin, students must take four arts classes out of their six encore classes during their eighth-grade year. Encore classes are those middle school courses outside of the core (math, language arts, science, social studies) curriculum.

And I don't think there's a cap on the number of students who can qualify for an arts certificate.

However, it's not like a flood of students is trying to get in to Southwest this way, at least so far. Last year, only 30 students got early admission to Southwest using an arts certificate and this year, it's 61.

Bruce, there has been no flood because you just opened the flood gates! I think you can consider it a "done deal" that there will be an attempt to close this "loop hole" post haste. Because now the HP parents are aware of a method by which to attend their neighborhood school without the lottery. Hence the reason you got "no comment". They knew this would eventually rise to the surface. So, I applaud your ability to run down this rabbit. But, GCS will be sure to put a stop to it before next year. And how will they go about that? By limiting the number of arts students at Penn-Griffin, or by adding a dance studio to the budget and making Andrews an arts school too? I would love to see Dr. G. in a pair of ballet slippers dancing his way out of this one! Good work Bruce!

I with you Kim, I'm for seeing Dr. G in a tutu and slippers as well; especially if the alternative is Dot.

Bruce,

What about the kids at Southwest Middle, Ferndale or Welborn that have also taken 4 art classes? Why can't they get an arts certificate?

I would like to report a robbery. Someone stole my "Get Terry Grier Outta Here" car magnet and is trying to sell it on Ebay.

I wish I still had this magnet because it would be quite a return on my initial investment of $5 last year. Apparently someone is willing to pay $20 for it.

If you don't believe me kindly do a search under lower case for terry grier.

I still have my Dot Kearns car magnet under wraps. I wonder how much that relic would bring.

Bruce,

These charts and this information is great. Thank you for getting it to the public so fast. Sure beats calling Central Office - they probably appreciate it too - less phone calls.

I have one question ref. "file 2"

What is "other zones 15" under Southwest?

Now is this the other part of the Twilight Zone Plan? Why does no one else have "other zones"?
Is it the "end zone"; the "ozone" - what is it?

Buckmtn,

Is that the Dot K magnet that everyone was fighting over and was passed around last summer? That is a relic.

Talk about supply and demand. Not many of that one around.

What does that magnet say?

I have been scratching the numbers for Southwest Kids... We are missing a key number so I backed into it. What percentage of Kids from SW zone that were Non-Free and Reduced Lunch NFRL and Not Specially admitted by Sibling or program, yup the ordinary kid without connections, that didn't want a specialty in puppetry on his college application, what was their chance of winning the lottery?

I was able to back into this number with School Board Figures for last Year. Also one small assumption.

For the 39% FRL ratio - every FRL child applying for SW got SW, yup you got it 100% guarantee WOW 336 admitted X .39 = 131 , oops only 130 FRL's applied. Can't do better than 100% now can we. (Mr. Grier's math probably could)

Next Little goodie...
143 Early Admissions - We assume 75% were NFRL for total of 108 slots. Remember the other 35 EA's were included in our 130 Fix was in group.

That gives us 238 kids in without allowing for any from Central and Andrews that were NFRL. Well if Districts 20% ratio for SW attendance zone still has merit, then of 277 SW zones applying kids 55 would have been FRL.

So here goes...
Southwest FRL kids staying 55
FRL kids from Andrews & Central 75
NFRL kids from A & C 76
Early Admissions Kids not FRL 108
Space Remaining 22
_____
Total admitted 336

Because all FRL children were admitted, all second choice kids were Non Free and Reduced Lunch. Add 22 admitted in space remaining to 107 SW zone kids forced out and you have 129 NFRL (normal middle class kids) entering a lottery offering an 83% chance of loosing. That?s worse than 1 in 5.

While we are playing the HP lotto, let's try this. Of Andrews and Central zone kids applying 193, 75 are FRL guaranteed. 193 Applying - 75 FRL - 42 NFRL's rejected, leaves 76 NFRL's admitted. Assume 40% of Early admissions were A & C (143 X.4) is 57. Of this 50% were Early Admins or 28. That leaves 29 NFRL kids from A&C early. So 193 A&C kids apply, all 75 FRL's are in, 29 Early Admins are in, 42 NFRL's are out leaving 47 (middle class kids) from outside SW zone winning the lotto. Odds... 47/(47 + 42)= 53% win at the lotto from outside SW zone.
Compare with similar SW zone (middle class Kids) 22/(22+107)=17% win. ie 1/3 chance of simialr outside the zone child.

Summary:
A middle class child outside the SW attendance zone that didn't have a sibling already there and didn't want to enter a performing arts career, had one-third the chance similar kids outside the SW attendance zone. Message: LEAVE NORTH HIGH POINT if you want a neighborhood school. If your thinking of moving to North High Point, Don't!
(I want a good Realtor before the rush!)

okay - an idea - warm weather will soon be here to stay - time for an outing at Babci's and we can all do a magnet swap - T can bring her new designs in clothes for wet weather - I hear she has some new lines for a trousseu (spelling? - Bruce we need "spell check") for those leaving Guilford County - only I have is "W the President" and I am not trading.

Garth,

Thank you for figuring this out - my head is spinning - will copy and read. We are so fortunate to have a numbers person.

You were on target with all those busing costs from the first time we heard you speak at the SW forum. Common sense would tell anyone their numbers were wrong.

Now what about the rising cost of gasoline? Look at the new buses that had to be ordered to hopefully keep rides under 65 minutes as stated in today's newspapers That is another concern for taxpayers and parents.

Can you imagine the first day of school THIS year. Better take of work; have all the cell phones on and put one of those tracking devices on your kid.

You have just ended another dimension "The Busing Zone".

Any by the way, does anyone know when that shelter that Susan Mendenhall was asked about at Roy Collier will be completed for SW kids? Jeff any luck on getting your answer??

Bruce do you know anything about that? I saw an architect's rendering at school but haven't heard of a date.

Saw the recent pole - okay, who's 1.3% is that who still wants the plan? - EK's, SA's and the school board members who voted for the Twilight Zone Plan? Them, themselves, and they?? Sorry not the best English but then Dr. Seuss might not mind.

Barbara Ann, the Dot magnet I have is the one that says:

"Save a few $100 mill, erase Dot Kearns"

Or something like that. Its the black & white one.

A question came up about the 15 "other zone" kids going to Southwest.

Those are magnet students from outside of High Point who attended Penn-Griffin and earned an arts certificate. They are using that certificate now to attend Southwest in order to continue studying the arts. That's why you don't see that group at the other two high schools.

And someone asked why kids at Southwest, Ferndale and Welborn middle schools can't get an arts certificate. That's just not the way the school board set it up.

Penn-Griffin is the county's arts magnet school for middle school students. The school board's idea is that students who are interested enough in the arts to attend a special arts-intensive middle school should be able to continue their education at a specialized high school (Southwest). In fact, with Parkview Elementary, students in High Point can get a specialized arts education K-12 now.

Bruce,

I guess these students must be chomping at the bit for those world class mime and puppetry classes!

Someone please wake us all up from this nightmare that Grier and the SB has created!!

I'm curious about this "arts-intensive" middle school certificate that Penn-Griffin gives to 8th graders for a free ride into Southwest High.

If the school is geared towards the arts, and it's assumed that a student is taking art during the 6th, 7th and 8th grades, then why do they only look at the arts classes taken in 8th grade to determine eligibility for the "arts Certificate"?

It looks like the school doesn't really care if the student has been "artsy" until time to graduate to high school.

If you ask me, this is another hidden way to get minorities over to SWH, and steer them away from where they used to be assigned, Andrews and Central. It's not really about "art" is it?

This is just a cut & paste below from the other strand on CB. I was questioning the busing costs as many of us did last year. Some of you may remember Garth. He is a CPA and gave the awesome presentation last year at the SW forum based on a software program designed for this purpose and after much research. His numbers and the school boards were so "off" last year. The night of the vote on Black Tuesday, Jim Moen was questioned by Dr. T and Jim said he stood by his numbers for the cost of busing to my best recollection. Doesn't seem so "off" now and that was before gas hit $2.20 per gallon.

Also in the newspaper the school admin has requested funds to order new buses so the HP rides won't be longer than 65 mins one way.

Which just this moment brings another question to mind. I thought the money for buses came from the state and not from local funds. Bruce, can you help on this one?? Do they need money from the GC commissioners for new buses or does that come from the state? If they aren't spending this money on buses, why is it in the budget projections for the county? BA

Garth's numbers below: CUT & PASTE BEGINS:

(Observations on Grier's new math)

Last year I showed the School Board how many kids would be bussed in the High Point fiasco.
I was ridiculed as being a bit off so forgive this humorous Blogging...

From the numbers in the letter to Mr. Grier...
Bused
Andrews 79 + 30
Central 64 + 107
Southwest 79+72+15
Total freshman to be shuffled next year 446
Number they gave public last year in (attachment E) 114, inflation at it’s best! We were not lied too!
Add to that the upcoming Sophomores

Est. Last years 212 – almost twice the 110 we were led to believe in (exhibit E)continue in the program - Total Bussed Kids for 2005-2006 could be 446+212=658
Last years estimated operating cost per student bused was $7.67 (provided by you and Mr. Moen in (attachment E). Now cram 65 kids for 130 minutes a day on each of your new improved super buses and the High Point Plan in year 2 will require at least 10 buses crisscrossing town to our new, modern, well managed and supervised hubs serving your world class failure. Est. Cost with last years fuel bill… 658 kids at 7.67 a day is $5,046.86 a day. I guess for the whole year it would be $5,046.86 X 180 days, oh, about $908,434. Are we not a tad over budget Mr. Grier? Some times math stinks! Oh, you thought the $70,000 cost per superbus was lost did you? 10 X 70,000= 700,000. Let’s see now, that’s $908,434 + $700,000 = $1,608,434 less $85,806 (the amount you had Mr. Moen present to the School Board, as the annual cost, in fact I believe you both reaffirmed it was correct when an obnoxious accountant tried to point out it might be a wee bit off ). Answer $1,522,628 over the amount presented to the gullible School Board and the trusting taxpayers of Guilford County. Can we say oops. I am sure glad fuel hasn’t gone up 50% in price since January 23, 2004 (attachment E date). I’m sure your new School budget doesn’t have increased fuel expenses anywhere near $800,000 and aren’t you glad we only needed the 1 new bus. As a taxpayer I am a bit disheartened. As a parent I am questioning my own sanity more than I question your math. What kind of parent would trust their kids in a school system run as openly and professionally as ours?

Note to self…look for good psychiatrist after April 15th.

Thank goodnes (attachment e) isn't still around, and the obnoxious accountant's material was

Posted by: Garth at April 8, 2005 01:46 AM

BUCKMTN:

Ref: The Magnet

That one was very popular as I recall and not that many were around as I recall. A rare find indeed. That would bring top dollar on E-bay or you could trade at Babci's for banana splits for your family at the magnet swap.

BA

Bruce,

Thanks for getting back to us so quickly on the zone question with 15 kids.

BA

Bruce,

There is someting that is troubling me about the choice plan, and perhaps, you can shed some light on it or get some information from GCS.

One of the stated objectives of the choice plan is to achieve socioeconomic balance between the three high schools. And, GCS has said that they are using the Free & Reduced Lunch Program to identify the disadvanted students (assuming those not on F&R are middle class students). My understanding is that, by law, the schools are not supposed to know what race a student might be in the program, only that they may qualify based upon financial need. Further, it has been said by the board and Grier that race is not a factor in the attempt to achieve diversity in the plan, it's solely based upon socioeconomic factors. A mingling of the classes, if you will.

I am informed that the 9th grade application that students had to complete, indicating their 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice, asked for the student's race. My question is that if the plan is designed to achieve socioeconomic balance in the three schools, why does the schools need to know the student's race? The random sort for assignment is supposed to be based upon the Free & Reduced Lunch status, not race, so why ask for it? It is probable that if a student had not indicated race, then the application would have been incomplete and placed in the pile of incomplete, did not return applications. And, when the random sort was run in California, was the answer to the race question taken into consideration?

Bruce, the answers to these questions would be very instructive on the process that GCS is using to achieve objectives in this plan, and what those obectives actualy may be. More information would be appreciated. If I don't have a complete and full understanding or corect information, please help me out here.

Dear Community,

So far we are talking about numbers and percentages.

The reason this plan is flat wrong is the practical implications this has for children and families in our community.

We are talking about human adolescents and uprooting them at a time when they are most vulnerable. Adolescents' brains are actually "under construction" at this time. They are the least able to handle the logistical, social, and psychological implications of this plan.

400 seats were added to Andrews by mistake.

This year's 8th grade class did not do that. Neither did their parents.

I am aware of one family that now has a child who walks 5 minutes from SW Middle to her Grandmother's house. Next year her parents planned for her to walk 10 minutes to her Grandmother's house. This way this child is safe, and gets homework done before her parents get home from work. This child also gets to enjoy her Nana while she can.

This same child is now being told by GCS that public education is only available for her across town. She is not allowed to attend SW High School. She will be refused entry to her closest school.

So, if this family wants to educate their child in Guilford County they have some choices:

*Put their young teenager on a bus for 3 hours a day
* Sell their home, (at a monetary loss due to the HP real estate market) AND move away from an elderly relative.
* Quit their job and home school

IS THIS OKAY WITH THIS COMMUNITY? Are we okay with the BOE making these kinds of decisions FOR parents?

For me, this is the real issue with the Random Assignment plan.

These are children, not statistics on a spreadsheet.

Mr. Duncan, (if you are out there) you often say it is your(our) moral obligation to be good stuards of our children and do the best we can to provide excellent public education. I believe you when you say it. I appreciate all the time and thought you and other board members put in to this endeavor.

Are you aware of these personal and specific hardships? Is this okay with you? You may not be aware of these personal, and practical hardships.

I am asking that you and the rest of the BOE make a point to be aware.

Be aware of the real impact your plan will have on our children and our parents.

Respectfully,
Terrina Picarello

PS. If your child did not get their first choice, please share your story with the community. Please tell us specifically how this will impact your child and your family schedule. Maybe the BOE really doesn't know. Please tell them.

I believe all the points were made aware to the BOE last year in letter after letter, email after email, speech after speech, over and over again. Unless they had ear plugs on and deleted every email and shredded every letter, they know. I specfically spoke on the hardships on our kids; I know Terrina did an excellent speech about long bus rides and psychological effects. How could they not know? They know.

If I were an 8th grade parent, I would write and speak-up and email and appeal and do whatever it takes to make my situation known.

But in the end - with a specific agenda o the powers that me in mind; a specific purpose; pressure of NCLB and getting the right numbers to "look" good on paper, will that really matter?

The better the numbers on paper, the better you "look" to outsiders moving in.

Ironically, economic development of HP and the building up of Central HS, an inner city school were key elements to this plan. In the end, folks who can, will leave HP faster than rats leaving a sinking ship. HP will suffer big time. It will be too late for the politicians and money people to see it. They will not realize it until real estate sales take a dive in HP. New companies are already telling folks to move to Greensboro.

For those who leave, the kids still lose - they have to adjust to a new location and new freinds.

For those who stay and play their games of wasted tax dollars on long bus rides and inadequate curriculums, the kids still lose.

Bottom line is: It hurts children; numbers matter here; children do not seem to matter.

No one has still answered the question: What academic achievement has the HP "choice" plan accomplished? No answers yet because they can't.

The plan was not formulated to help children. That has become quite clear to all of us.

p.s. There was no "mistake" intended in adding those seats to Andrews. There was a definite purpose; there was a specific agenda.

Irresponsible - yes; A mistake - no way, as it was calculated.

It has proven to be a huge mistake; now others who didn't cause it are paying the price of some past and present school board members who had their own agenda.

In 1999 the other pieces of the puzzle just did not fit for those who tried to move all of HP around then.

Now it has come to this - still trying to fit square pegs in a round hole. So far, in all aspects the Fat Chance Plan has failed. How long will this experiment in social engineering be allowed to continue? That is the question.

Bruce/Jennifer,

Can you please post a link to George Will's column in today's (Sunday's) N&R. The title is "A 65 percent solution for education spending".

The article states that "NC spends 63.3% of its operational budget in classrooms". What does GCS spend?

This article is very interesting.

Thanks

Jennifer,

Good article in today's paper "No Free Rides For Yellow Bus".

How much is actually expected to be spent next year on the HP plan alone? This number should include the cost of purchasing extra buses, insurance, salaries, and the ever rising cost of diesel fuel.

When Moen states, "There's nothing else I can cut. I've cut everything", I can think of much more that can be cut.

How about cutting the HP Plan?

How about cutting two trips during exams! When did this start? When I was in school (dark ages) I had to either stay in school even if I had no exam that day, or provide my own transportation. Think how many miles this is. I thought a student had to stay in school for 1/2 day to get credit for that day. Someone please enlighten me as why GCS provides several bus trips for HS students, and while doing so many kindergarten kids have to wait longer than their normal day to get home. Do the teacher not want the kids there? That is my guess.

Bruce,

Given Jim Moen's inability to make accurate forcasts about budgets, scheduling, etc. Anything he says is highly questionable. Thie is the guy who said that it would only cost $85,000.00 last yea fo the choice plan. And what was the actual cost? we don't know. Of course, I'm sue he wasn't counting the cost of supervision at the hubs..hub constuction, and of course the new busses. you know, the ones he said we would not need. Either Jim does a poor job, or he is a mouthpiece for Terry Grier.

MikeG,

You are right on the money.

It is a catch 22. GCS promised bus ride no longer than 60 minutes one way. If they don't get the money for the new buses, they can say, "See we asked for money for new buses. We did not get our money, so the kids will have to be on long bus rides." The children, once again, will suffer. More buses will certainly be needed so the tax payers suffer.

What we would still like to know is - BRUCE HELP US OUT HERE PLEASE - I thought the money for new buses came from state funds. If this is the case, why was this mentioned in the N & R that GCS is asking for money for buses for the HP Plan from the commissioners?

Also, not included in last year's so called projections (beside all the items Mike G listed) what about the "mega buses" - these certainly cost a lot more.

Also with regard to the assistants being hired to watch the children at the hubs, don't forget about what they are telling us all these background checks will cost. And these most definitely are needed.

Bruce, have you heard anything about GCS changing their policy of hiring felons under certain circumstances? Any updates on this and doing more extensive background checks?

Barbara,
I think I saw something about hiring policies on the agends for BOE April 12
d

I will tape the meeting. As my friend said the other day - not enough margueritas out there to sit though another meeting for a long while. I hope the 8th grade parents come out in full force.
I will watch the show on TV.

Thanks for the tip, Deb.

Please be sure to ask the question, "What is the total cost of the bus program? " Don't forget that a majority of the transportation cost is picked up at the state level. We all live in NC and pay state taxes. All-in-all it's a waste of taxpayer money - both local dollars and state tax dollars. The current # of extra busses is 9. Moen is quoted last year as saying the need will be 1-2. Quite a miscalculation!

Additionally, there was a full page ad in today's High Point Enterprise that made some GREAT points. The ad included contact information for all local elected officials. Please pick up a copy and give the contact info to anyone that has been affected (any HP resident) so they can contact ALL of the representatives. FYI- Have them attempt to contact Susan Mendenhall but tell them not to hold their breath ..... they may need it to speak to someone who cares!

Budget time is around the corner..... the county commissioners would love to know how you feel about how Guilford County Schools is spending your tax dollars! They're asking for $13+ million more than last year!

Also in the total busing costs is the cost of the shelters to be built. Jeff R addressed the SWH shelter being build to Susan Mendenhall at the Ray Collier forum. We still have not heard anything on that.

How many more assistants will be needed for the hubs? Cost of background checks, etc. Will more hubs be needed? Will new buses be the mega buses? How much more are they? What projected cost are they using for fuel?

btw - I emailed a quick email to some of the commissioners today. Billy Yow's e-mail address has changed from what the GC website states and that which was in the ads. I am in process of getting the corrected address and will post here when I get it.

Best to all who are speaking Tuesday evening.

I also saw a full page ad in the N & R with the contact information for all school board members and commissioners.

Bruce & Jennifer: About the buses...

Last year, while we waited 2 weeks for my son's "hub bus" to actually stop at our house to take him to school, I did a lot of questioning at the bus office (in person). I was told the hub plan was put in place because GCS needed to reduce it's fleet of buses in order to maintain funding from the state because their "load ratio" (ie: kids per bus) was too low. As I understood it, state funding for buses is based on those load ratios (they pay based on how many kids you are transporting per bus, etc.). So, I was told that GCS had to get their load per bus up or funding would be cut by the state. SO... the "Moen Hub Plan" appeared. Remeber all the PR about how many buses would be "saved" by the hubs? Then the plan FAILED MISSERABLY and busses had to be added to actually get kids to school and home again in the same day. I can only assume based on my son's bus, that load ratios are no better now. He has less than 12 kids on the full sized bus that brings him home from the hub each day. He no longer rides the AM bus. We chose not to have him on a bus 2-3 hours a day.

I am fully open to all my assumptions about the hub plan bieng wrong, but I would appreciate you guys asking some questions. If the load ratios are lower than before the Hubs, what about state funding now? Is that why Moen & Co. are asking for local money for buses? I know a lot more parents are driving their kids now so they actually get home before bedtime. I can't imagine that has improved load ratios. Maybe that's why state money isn't available to transport the social engineering plan in HP?

I have stated before that Mr. Moen should've been fired after the neglegence displayed with the poor planning and implementation of the hubs. I certainly do not trust his leadership in dealing with this issue. Neither should the commissioners.

Bruce and Jennifer,

I see you have a lot of requests for information. That says to me that our School Board is NOT doing their job in communicating with the public. Perhaps they should discuss a salary for you two since you have taken on the job of Communication Liasons.

Sorry to add yet another question to the pool: Can you find out how many letters of resignation have been submitted to the central office that will be affective starting in June. I know of several.

Also, I might be wrong, but I've seen no press coverage about the child that got left on the bus the other day and the driver that was terminiated. Do you have any specifics on that?

Quest,

Here is the link to that George Will column. I agree that it's worth reading:

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/will1.asp

Richard,

Jennifer wrote a story about the kid being left on the bus. It ran in Friday's paper.

I'll try to track down an answer about the number of upcoming resignations. However, June typically is the month people resign - it's the end of the school year and most folks with any sense of professionalism wait until the end of the school year before leaving a school.

So it wouldn't be unusual to see the number of resignations jump in June. And since it's only April 11, I wouldn't be surprised if more resignations rolled in before the end of the school year.

Richard,

Here is at least a partial answer to your resignation question:

http://www.guilford.k12.nc.us/boe/2005/4_12/personel_report.pdf

Bruce,
I agree that professionalism would dictate that people wait until June to resign/retire; but per your above info you can tell that many don't wait-- not even the principal at Andrews. More and more I fear for the public education of our children!

Thank you for the information. I'll see what I can do about getting you and Jennifer that stipend from the school board since you act more like board members than most of them.

Bruce,

You still have not answered my question - sorry to keep bugging you - why is GCS asking for money in the budget to the commissioners for more buses??? I thought bus funding came from the state? Please help.

Also I think you and Jennifer need to do an extensive story on bus safety besides the cost of busing for the HP Plan. There are numerous safety concerns that need to be addressed.

About a week ago on the news there were bus drivers from W-S who were extremely upset about all the "stuff" that is happening on their buses. They want assistants on those buses. Of course, it is "not in the budget". They are considering cameras. The driver said all kinds of things go on and he has found trash, condoms, etc. The drivers are complaining the cannot drive safely and concentrate on the road. They plan to organize because they are afraid of the potential dangers.

BA

As a teacher, you are to NEVER leave a class unattended, never. This is anywhere from 20 to 24 or more kids. Now consider how many kids ride a bus at one time; sometimes 3 in a seat; young kids; then 6th graders mixed with high school; and now after the HUB plan, who knows what ages.

Who is watching the kids while the driver drives? As a parent, you know how even 3 young kids in a car can misbehave. How can the driver drive and watch kids?

Now consider the new mega buses. How many kids can they fit?

The question should be: "It is 3:00 p.m, do you know where your children are and who is watching them?" The answer is NOBODY. You cannot drive and watch kids at the same time.

Can you and Jennifer please do a story on bus safety?

off the subject - my friend who is without computer this week due to market asked me to post the following:

Watch WXII NEWS, Channel 11 tonight - the story on the Ebay Grier magnet is supposed to be on again.

My child, and next year children, go/will go to Penn Griffin. They are dedicating three years of their lives to the study of art and music, and their father and I support them in this. I didn't know what constituted an arts certificate until I read this blog. It does seem a bit unfair, and I would be worried about them not getting in to the school if there were too many applicants trying to close the loophole that has been created, only they are also zoned to go to that school. But, I have a couple other questions. Why IS a person's race listed on the high school applications? Does it have an asterisk that makes that question optional? Secondly, didn't they just make Lincoln an arts magnet for GSO so that those kids would not be provided transportation to Penn Griffin, and be forced to go somewhere in GSO after they had been at Penn Griffin for only one year? What is the logic in that??

Nancy Le, It seems that you do not have to dedicate 3 years of your children's lives to art in order to receive the prestigious Arts Certificate. From what I've heard, it ONLY matters that your child take 4 Artsy classes in the 8th grade, then they are handed their FREE PASS to Southwest High.

At SOME point, if too many NON FRL's start using this FREE pass, I expect the rules to change. But that is par for the course in GCS.

Good luck and make room in your house for clay sculptures and woven baskets.

It is a moot point that the race question is on the 9th grade application. GCS has this information on all students. You will it out when you fill out your emergency information each year for the schools. It is printed on the white emergency cards.

Also they have this to keep up with the records on closing the "gap". How else would they know if it where closing or not. They have to have the data.

Race has been on school forms for years.

Best to you and all your children in their future pursuits, Nancy. It is at best, a game on a roulette wheel to know what the future will hold in the Twilight Zone District.

Barbara Ann,

Hey, I'm certainly not ignoring you question on why GCS is asking the commissioners for bus money. It's just that 1. I've been pretty busy the last couple of days and I'm just now getting caught up with The Chalkboard and 2. I don't exactly know the answer.

But here's what I think the answer is: Yes, the state does provide bus money. But they only provide a certain amount and if that isn't enough to cover all of the costs, they the local school system must cover the shortfall.

That's the way most state funds are distributed. They don’t give school systems a blank check nor do they ask them what their needs are. The state says, "This is how much you get and if you need more, you have to pay for it yourself."

However, I've heard many parents and taxpayers say that GCS could use its existing transportation money more efficiently.

I'll see if I can find a more definite answer, though.

I just found this in the budget: Dr. Grier is asking the county commissioners to fund eight extra buses (for $281,600) for the High Point high schools. The purpose is to keep all bus rides to a maximum of 65 minutes.

So these would be in addition to the buses already funded by the state. The idea is to pay for extra buses and cut down on the length of time kids are on the bus.

Thank you Bruce regarding your first answer. I knew you would come through.

Regarding the second post so it is just as we thought. You implement a plan one year; say it will cost only so much in busing kids and guarantee no more than 1 hour rides; then when you really find out it will be about 90 minutes or so, you then say that you need more buses so the kids won't be on more than 65 minutes. You go the county commissioners and tell them that if you don't want kids to be on for more than 65 minutes and if you do not want to hurt kids, you better give us some money for more buses or it will be your fault if these kids are on the buses more than 65 minutes because you didn't give us the money for the buses. Maybe they will just forget the part about "by the way, we did create these busing problems in the first place with the creation of the HP plan". Just a minor detail. Give us the money anyway.

Think that about covers it.

Catch 22.

I think we were talking about this earlier in this thread, but forgive me if this seems off-point...

I found out earlier today from GCS that all of the 149 students who didn't get their first choice in the lottery were middle-class (meaning they don't qualify for free/reduced-price lunches.

That confirms Garth's calculations - not that I doubted him! Just thought you might find that interesting.

And to answer Teddy's question, I have no idea why GCS would've asked students for their race on the lottery forms - because the school system already has that information.

They can tell you if John Doe at Acme Elementary is black, white, Hispanic, Asian, American Indian, free-lunch, non-free lunch, disabled, non-disabled, an immigrant, a native-born American, etc. All that stuff already is on file and can be pulled up easily.

In other words, if GCS wanted to use race to make lottery assignments, they wouldn't need to ask for it. They already know who is minority and who isn't.

Bruce,

Thanks again for all your hard work. I really think you need a raise.

I wouldn't ever doubt Garth when it comes to calculations not after hearing him speak on busing projections last year vs what GCS's transportation came up with. I think they were just a "little" off - both in money and in transportation times. Garth does number for a living so he's a natural.

Regarding race, right again - they have it. It is on every emergency card.

We could all start filling in "multi-racial" as you know what most of us have several different nationalities - does Polish, German, Irish, English count for "multi-racial"? or we could all just leave blank.

Back to busing and the Catch 22. If it gets down to spending money for more buses so kids won't be on more than an hour; we need those buses. We can't expect to have a kid forced on a bus for 90 minutes one way. It is bad enough he is being forced to leave what he had felt was his "home" school.

We all knew their numbers were off last year. It was so obvious.

It is not the kids' fault for this farce of a so called "plan". With a "plan" you have a "plan" - there was no plan with regarding to the busing.

Kind of let's wing it and see what happens. I asked time after time in writing last year to run simulations before the first day of school. I was told it would be a waste of time, etc. I still have the e-mails. We all remember the first day of school 2004.

What will this year be like?