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So who gets the credit for this, the students, their parents, and their teachers; or Dr. Grier and his photo-op side kicks better known as the School Board?

What's important is not who gets credit for these kids' success but how the schools will nurture their abilities in the future.

My kids participated in the TIP program during the summer after seventh grade. In a three-week session, they completed a year's course in Algebra I, which was what they were scheduled to take in eighth grade. So what did their middle school do with them when they showed up in the fall?

Fortunately, they were able to walk to the nearby high school and take ninth-grade geometry. Credit goes to the administrators and teachers for their flexibility.

But by the time they got to 12th grade, they'd run through the normal math sequence. They more or less did independent study under the guidance of a teacher who volunteered her time to helping. The curriculum really wasn't structured to serve their particular needs.

That was several years ago. What would happen today?

Doug,

You have brought up some very good points. The kids who enter middle school in the transition math program often run out of math courses to take in high school. A middle school counselor pointed that out to us. My daugher also scored at the state level recogition for TIPS in 7th grade, but we had kept her out of the transition math route. She seems to be on target now for all her higher maths.

Instead of funds and extra programs being put into our schools for the high achievers, it appears that all the efforts are being put into raising the bar for low achievers. (Remember testing of kids for AL being delayed now in middle school?) High achievers are often encouraged to attend early college, thus the curve flattens out for the so called "achievement gap" in the regular high schools. Do the kids in the middle get educationed? Or are they just being blended in the flattend curve?

Doug,

Perhaps they'd go to Early College at Guilford and start college early?

meant to say "educated" and "flattened" - in a hurry - sorry didn't check before I hit the button - have to run now

Jen,

Problem with Early College, it is not for everyone. My daughter wanted nothing to do with it. She wanted her every day high school life with friends her age; the clubs; student council; high school sports; every day stuff.

Also, as parents, we didn't want a 20 some year old man "hitting on her" when she was 16 years old in classes with them. There are other social and developmental and maturity issues that come into play besides the academics.

Most kids still enjoy being with friends their own age.

Jennifer,

The Early College is an excellent path for high achievers. The sad thing is that there is not room for all that apply. The small number of students there is partly the reason it is so nice.

Perhaps this program can be duplicated at other campuses to give more students this same opportunity. Or, possibly a program where the college/university teachers come to the high schools.

I agree with Barbara Ann that it seems that Guilford County schools focus most of their attention to the low achievers and the high achievers are left to fend for themselves at times. We should not be relying on a volunteer to teach our highest achieving math students as Doug Clark's experience.

I must disagree with Barbara Ann's comments on the Early College. Students there are VERY safe. I would wager to say that they are safer than at other high schools. The 9th and 10th grade classes are in their own building. They are not roaming the campus being "hit on" by older students.

The 11th and 12th graders are free to take regular college courses but they are still under the watchful eye of the Early College principal.

Also, to Barbara Ann, I agree too that the Early College experience is not for everyone. But to clarify, The Early college offers an abundance of clubs, dances, functions etc... including Student Council. There are the same activities that you would find at traditional high schools, possibly even more. And students can participate in sports at their "zoned" high school if desired.

All of our children in Guilford County have different needs. Thank goodness that there are choices. I think part of the reason that The Early College is such a success is because students CHOOSE to go there. No one is forced to go. I truly wish that all of the students in Guilford County had the oppurtunity to find a school that "fits" them.

It is tough for some parents to accept, but the schools should concentrate on the low achievers instead of the high achievers. When you raise the lower part of the class, you end up raising the entire class. You see, the people at the tope of the class will not tolerate being passed. The people at the top of the class are often able to teach themselves. Or they prefer to learn at their own pace. When you see NW go up by 78 points on the SAT since 2000 and Dudley is down 55 points during the same period, I am not worried about the top of the class. In an ideal world, all sections of the class would move up together. This is not happening in Guilford County. Kids that are able to do work that is more advanced than they receive in school can supplement their work with independent reading. It is hard for some to accept, but the most powerful force is for a student to learn how to teach themselves. It they do this, it will serve them well. I did not sent my children to magnet schools. I did not want them to be burnt out before they got thru college. We have way too many magnet schools and way too many pushey parents. We are running a public school not a private school.

I still Do not like the idea of segregating the smartest students from the gerneral population in our public schools.

I feel that these high achievers will miss out on some of lifes important lessons.

My Son, a middle of the road student at Southwest High, has learned many new things since his school started recieving the most troubled students in High Point, through the Socialist Choice Plan.

Here are just a few:

1. Don't lay anything down,it will be stolen!!

2. Be ready to fight if you accidentally get bumped in the hall.

3. M. F. and Hoe is acceptable language.

4. You may wear your pants below your knees if you so desire.

Why would anyone want their child to miss this type of experience in exchange for a controlled, elitist environment.

Back to my first post - and I really was in a hurry this a.m. - meant to say A/L testing being delayed in ELEMENTARY schools (not second grade anymore).

To Reader, I didn't say I didn't like the idea of early college. It is a great opportunity for some and definitely can save money - two years of college tuition - a real plus today. My neighbor's daughter got a full scholarship to Guilford College. They are thrilled. She was never into the "high school" scene.

One other constant concern, is what if the funding runs out? Then what? How will these few fit back into every day high school life.

Also, I am not saying early college is not safe. Believe me, as 5-Star Gen. Slak (see he got a promotion) points out the every day conditions in our high schools (and you can read the local police reports), early college is much safer. Kids are there by choice and you won't see the trouble makers getting a spot there either.

Participating in sports from off campus is not the same. Transporation is just one issue.

Also 11th and 12th graders do take classes with young men and women over 21. You can't tell me a principal can look out for a 16 year old, nor is it there job to watch who is asking whom out. It is not like a private Catholic hospital nursing school, for example, where rules of dating interns would be prohibited but it still goes on. I would not want my daughter at dances with college kids when she is 16.

I think kids have enough to deal and develop at different necessary psychological stages and should enjoy things with peers closer to their age; dating; social dramas; making good friends; and avoiding the trouble that is around them.

The things the General speaks of are true. Kids do learn that this, unfortunately, is a part of the world that is there. It teaches them how to deal with it and survive. Do you want to conduct yourself in this manner with this kind of language, for example, or rise above it? Also what kids learn is, they don't want to be this way and gravitate toward friends who they want to be like. Proof of this was last night's sports banquet at SWH. There were a lot of hard working, great kids who have proven that with hard work and drive, you can succeed.

And no Joe, smart kids should not just be left alone. Their parents do pay taxes and have a right to a public school education just like all kids do. Their needs should be met - whether they have physical challenges, are slow learners or are gifted. The high achievers will be the leaders of tomorrow. Why should efforts not be put into developing their talents to the fullest capacity. Why should time and money not be put into the kids who want to learn - any kids who want to learn. Yes, smart kids can buy books and read, but it would be nice to have good teacher to teach the sciences and higher maths and languages, etc. The public schools have used the smarter kids to tutor other kids (saves them money on hiring teachers); they have pulled boys out of "shop" (ask the General) to be dance partners at the SWH Arthur Murray school of dance. They have used North HP kids as a commody to fix other schools. It is GCS and the City of HP who has put different values on different kids with all the mixing in the "Choice" Plan. To put different values on different kids is wrong. All kids are valuable; and all of them have a right to a public education if they want it.

Joe,

A couple of points....

Agreed and so does the rest of the county - there are too many magnet schools. What about a basic, strong education in core subjects?

Regarding Dudley, I thought you had posted on a previous stand about $30 mill being a lot of money to spend on a renovation. Do you think this $30 million will help that school raise their scores? SAT? AYP's? Does a new, pretty building help?

Also you say we are not running private schools; it is public. One constant main concern I am hearing from downtown old High Point people (Central) and from the Mendenhall SB rep is the fear of people leaving the public schools system for private. They want to keep this part of the population in the schools. Unfortunately, more and more do keep leaving in High Point.

HP is not like Greensboro were Mendenhall, for example, gets to keep their neighborhood school.

There is a place for both private and public schools. However, if you send your child to private school and he/she finishes in the bottom half of the class--the opportunities are limited.
Put another way, many students in the top 10% of a public school class will fall in the lower middle of a good private school. In this position, going to a first rate college like Duke, Yale or Harvard is out of the question. If the child had been in public school, graduated in the top 10% of the class, the future is much better. Harvard takes 1 or 0 students from Guilford County each year. The chances that the individual will come from a private school is not good. I like public school chances better. You see many of the great universities consider all of Guilford County as a backwater area. A top student in a public school is considered a great prospect because they have overcome a poor school system. Those people who want to send their children to private schools should do so.
It helps raise the position of high performers in the public system

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