News-Record.com

Hearing about all the back door politics that go on; the hidden agendas; and not being able to take some people at their word, why am I not surprised?

High Point, have you figured out you are not the majority interest on this board.

Jennifer, I held the title to your post up to the mirror and came up with:

"High Point votes to End School Board"

I for one do not want to deal with this choice plan or any other version of a choice plan when it comes to the Gate City and please do not tell me it will not be here one day because it is going to. Time and again this School Board has demonstrated that it cannot be trusted. I envision a vote on such a plan for all of Guilford County shortly after the 2006 elections.

As far as the reason why the Darlene Garrett motion was voted down is obvious. This pack of vultures was not going to let go of the extra money they gave themselves at the prior meeting. When they see a carcass on the side of the road they pick it clean.

If Dot Kearns had voted to double her pay last year I have no doubt that Guilford County would have found the extra 3% of the vote to erase Dot.

Likewise if Dot Kearns and her shadow Susan Mendenhall lived in Greensboro I'd move. It's bad enough here with Grier, Sykes, Duncan and Cooke.

I think that the HP mess will be revisited once all scores etc are in... I know that if they aren't I will be asking about it, for I fear that the children of this county in HP are being under-educated and over-spent on! Don't spend hundreds of thousands busing kids; use that money to educate them!

Amen Debora

Jennifer,

I somewhat dread reading the article in Sunday's paper. How will you possibly spin this one to make it appear that the HPCP is a good thing?

More importantly, will you finally answer the one question we have all been waiting to have answered:

Name one single academic achievement of the High Point Reassignment Plan.

I am tired of it all--the HP plan, the raises for the board, the cover up of low scores, etc. If it wasn't for my love of teaching and desire to help my kids, I would have already left. Unfortunately, we are going to see an even greater increase in the number of teachers leaving Guilford County Schools if these problems continue to go on. Many of our new teachers (who have taught three years or less) and lateral entry teachers will leave the teaching profession altogether after this year.

While I know now that leaving is not the answer for me, I sometimes feel helpless and wonder if there's anything I can really do to make a difference. I encourage all educators, parents, and anyone involved in the education field to continue to stay involved and let your voice be heard.

FYI: You can check out each school's teacher turnover rate by going to the GCS website and clicking on the menu for schools. You choose your school and click on the school report card link on that school's site. Finally, click on the top tab for "Quality Teachers" and the turnover rate is listed on that page.

Quest,

We talked to kids from all three schools and wrote down what they said, plus background on how this all started and what the lottery results are for next year.

We've also compiled some data, from what little is available. Remember, they've just finished testing so there is no full year of data available on that score, so to speak. (So that answers your question about one single 'positive academic achievement.' We don't have any data at this time that points to that. Unless of course you're talking about individual students who have found success at the schools this year.)

Whatever spin you get will be your interpretation of what the kids say and what you get out of the data.

I'm just trying to figure out where we've tried to put a pro-HP plan spin on anything. Let's look at some recent News & Record stories...

"MORE STUDENTS TRY FOR SOUTHWEST HIGH"
- April 7, 2005

"FEWER STUDENTS ASSIGNED TO SCHOOL OF CHOICE"
- April 6, 2005

"CHOICE PLAN MEETS TROUBLE IN STUDY"
- Feb. 19, 2005

"TURBULENT YEAR FOR GUILFORD SCHOOLS "
- Dec. 31, 2005

If we're supposed to be putting a pro-HP plan spin on things, we're not doing a very good job of it.

Bruce & Jennifer,

Have you ever done a story on Dr Grier and the strange changes to the number of students retained during his reign?

I was looking thru the school improvement plan for my son's middle school and noted that there were 126 (14.3%) retained for the 2001-2002 school year, 12 (1.3%) for 02/03 and 1 for 03/04.

I can promise you that the demographics of the school have not changed in any way to support these numbers. With all the flight to private schools/neighboring counties, I would expect the numbers to be higher (based on test scores of feeder schools to this middle school).

I have also heard tales of parents in elementary schools wishing to retain their child based on the child's maturity and they are not allowed to do this.

I guess Dr G's answer is shove them thru middle school and then set up a middle college program for them so they won't drop out of high school. No wonder they don't want to be in high school; they haven't a prayer of being able to do the work.

Also, do you know the laws on holding a public protest? specifically on school property?

Bruce and Jennifer,

In researching your HP High School story, did you interview any of the families that opted out of the HP plan altogether?

Did you randomly choose students from each High School to interview? Or did Terry Grier give you a list of names to choose from?

How many families/students declined to be interviewed?

Did you interview teachers or other staff at each of the three High Schools?

How about the bus drivers? I suspect they hear a good deal of student conversations during their routes.

Did you get any interviews of students that are taking advantage of the new hubbing system? How do they like standing in the rain waiting for their transfer? Or talk to the kids that aren't allowed to bring their instruments on the bus? How do they get their instruments to and from school?

Did you talk to any families that are taking the extra time and money to transport their children themselves to avoid the hubbing system. How's that working out?

Did you talk to any of the kids at Penn Griffin to ask them just when it was that their love for the arts began? Was it in elementary school, middle school, or the last semester of their 8th grade year when they are able to obtain their "arts certificate."

Did you talk to any kids at Southwest High that wanted to take Spanish as a freshman?

Did you actually go to the school grounds to conduct your interview or did you do them in the comfort of their own homes?

I guess I just can't wait until the story hits the press. Sorry if I'm impatient. And sorry to be another one leary of your findings.

Amy,

Dr. Grier is an expert at the " Numbers Game ".

Over the years he has been able to juggle statistics in order to win many awards for himself.

The most recent success story of Dr. Grier s' was when NEWSWEEK named the three High Point High Schools as being in the top 350 High Schools in America.

What a JOKE!!!!

Dr. Grier may be able to blow smoke up DOT KEARNS and the rest of his boards Rear Ends,but thank goodness the General Public is aware of his Misdeeds and will not stop fighting until he is long gone!!!!

LAUGH***OUT****LOUD***

I just had a mental image of the phrase above: "Grier may be able to blow smoke..."

Amy,
Middle school seems to be an area that the GCS seems to ignore- at least academically. I don't believe that the amount of children retained dropped that fast, well maybe it did, but there has to be a reason! A real reason-- have the EOG's gotten that much easier? The only year that is a gateway is the 8th grade as far as eog's are concerned. Have the teachers improved that much? I would absolutely love to think that was true, but I doubt that too!

There is pressure to pass on kids. I know for a fact that if a parent of elementary school wants their child held back then it can happen, but you have to jump through hoops-- write letters etc! After all who knows the maturity/social things about our children better than we do?

Vivitar,

Thanks for your interest. I'll try to answer as many of your questions as possible, but why don't we wait until after it runs Sunday? Some of your questions may be answered after reading it. Obviously, we didn't delve into every issue you address, although they are valid questions - otherwise we'd have to write a book!

But quickly: We didn't talk to people who opted out completely because we wanted to find out first-hand from students how the schools are working. That means talking to kids who actually are in those schools.

Not that it isn't valid to talk to folks who opted out completely; we've written about some of those students before. That's just not the point of this particular story.

The majority of students we quoted were kids we tracked down ourselves, independent of the school system. Those interviews were done in their homes, not at school.

We did interview some kids on campus at Andrews and High Point Central, though, so obviously, we had to ask the principal's permission. But we made sure we spoke to a diverse mix of kids - black, white, male, female and from a variety of different neighborhoods. Also, they had to have written parental permission to be interviewed. But these students still were very forthcoming - they told us what they didn't like about the HP plan and what they thought was working well.

The kids at all three schools had plenty of interesting things to say. Oh, and Terry Grier didn't have any input into who was and wasn't interviewed, other than agreeing to be interviewed himself.

Amy,

To answer your question about public protests, you can't do it on school property.

While it is technically public property in the sense that we, the taxpayers own it, laws don't allow free access to school campuses. That's why, for example, all visitors are expected to sign in at the main office.

However, you certainly can protest near a public school in, say, a public right-of-way or sidewalk. I saw kids at Jamestown Middle stage a protest after a popular teacher quit/was fired. They simply moved across the street from the main entrance. I've also seen protestors on the sidewalk in front of the GCS central office. Both of these examples are completely legal.

Does anyone know when the BOE will revie the High Point plan. One year? Four years? The people of Guilford County deserve to know in what month the review will take place.

In reference to Amy's post:

When I worked at a local middle school, I was bascially told not to bother with holding any students back regardless of their academic performance. To hold a student back, I would have to have a meeting with administration, provide documentation (I'm not sure what), and possibly walk over hot coals. The failing average the student made for the year was not enough. My administration told me this and said that they were told to do this from downtown. The goal was to keep moving students forward.

I believe this is why one year I had several middle school students reading on a second to fourth grade level. During elective time, they got special reading help and were also pulled out of language arts and math class for additional reading help. I understand if a student has a learning problem and needs additional help. However, I do not understand the point of passing a student on to the next grade and setting them up for failure because they can't keep up. What are we doing to our students?

On a different subject, thank you Bruce and Jennifer for doing the article on the HP plan. I'm curious to read what the students have to say. I think you both do a great job.

Joe,

I think the HP Plan will be reviewed as soon as Dot Kearns is convinced that Southwest High School is so far below Central that they will never catch up in Dot's lifetime.

The cost does not matter. The success or failure of Andrews does not matter. It has always been about Central. Dot made a promise to her neighbors that Central would rise to the status that it once was. She made a comment to me before the plan was implemented that she could no longer sell houses in Old Emerywood because everyone wanted to buy houses in the Southwest district.

Says a lot doesn't it?

You keep attending the school board meetings, I'll keep checking the obits.

Thank you Bruce for your reply. I look forward to reading the article on Sunday. I especially can't wait to hear Dr. Grier's comments on the plan. I'm sure from his point of view it's successful.

I hope you threw in a question about his new salary increase and how he can justify that when there is so much need within our 107 schools. Or is it 108 by now? I can't keep track.

Anyway, thanks. And I echo Andi, you all do a fine job keeping the community informed. Much better than the school board.

Andi,
I know that you must realize that the reason that kids are passed with no quidelines is 'social promotion' because it hurts their self esteem to be older than kids in their class. I can't help but wonder how good their self esteem is when they are singled out to get extra tutoring, guided studies, continuing to fail the eog's etc. I don't think this is going away soon, it is a decade old problem.

We must decide to truely education the kids starting in grade 1 and hold them accountable to a specific level(and the level must be the same at each and every school!). When they meet that level and only then can they move to another grade. So much money is spent on remedial ed. when we failed these kids in the first place! The failure continues all the way to grade 12. Look at how many kids take AP at Smith and only a very small percentage can pass the EOC for college credit (I believe its about 10%)-- now do you think they failed that course, or are they receiving passing marks? If so what standard are they teaching/grading at? Not the same as Page/Grimsley/NW etc, since something like 75% of those kids get a 3 or 4 on the test. It's not that those kids can't learn; but somewhere along the line the standards of 'quality education' have differed from school to school. IMHO it must be a combination of teachers/parents/admin/students view of success is different! How do we continue to not address this?

Andi/Deb - question:

How do the students get past the Gateways in 8th grade?

One factor Deb about passing those A/P tests and this was at my daughter's school, SWH. There were multiple dates and times for tutoring offered as an option for the A/P's. Her one friend didn't go because "it takes her too long to do her make-up" and she didn't want to get up at 5:00 a.m. because her "make-up" was more important. She had had A/P World the first semester and forgot a lot of it. Also for some students, their social life - dating becomes more important than the discipline it takes to study for these tests.

Some of the kids don't have the transporation nor the desire to go to the tutoring which would help them. It is especially more difficult if you had the course the first semester on a Block Schedule.
However, the same tutoring opportunities are offered to ALL students. Whether they care enough to take advantage of the many opportunities offered them is up to that individual.

I think parents are one of THE main factors for successful students.

Bruce, I have enjoyed all the stories the past year and I look forward to Sunday's special feature. I particularly liked the Harvard Study this week about the LOW graduation rate. Now that is definitely not a positive slant.

Barbara Ann

Along those same lines,block scheduling and lose of memory of the material is a huge concern. We had this discussion a few months ago, but it still bothers me that the two school on regular schedule seem to have much better AP scores and SAT scores. Am I the only one that sees a relevance to this? Those are both important to getting into colleges.

Check out the May 26th BOE schedule, they will be discussing a 10 pt grading option instead of 7!

Doea nyone know when the County Commissioners will review the School Budget?

Deb,

IMHO I think Block or Regular Schedule doesn't matter. There are advantages to both. There is enough review time and tutoring offered on Block. Also kids have their notes. It is the effort they want to put in; the opportunity is there.

I think the problem is that kids who are not capable nor have a desire to go to college are now starting to be pressured to take these higher classes so we look good in Newsweek. They sit there lost. I know kids who didn't take an A/P as their older siblings said it was too hard and the saw the effort one had to put in to get the full benefits. I know one kid who freaks if he doesn't make an "A". He is extremely smart and one of the top sophomores. He would rather make an A in Honors than a B in A/P. Go figure.

There are so many "distractions" in high schools -clubs, sports, social, dating dramas - a kid needs to have the ability to focus,organize and prioritize. Many kids don't have these skills; nor do they have parents who can teach them these skill. The home environment and example is a huge factor.

Can you explain about 10pt grading instead of 7pt please.

With regard to the budget, I believe the budget goes to the Commissioners soon but they actual approval is in July. They meet and discuss up to that point.

The upcoming Commissioner meetings should be interesting to attend or listen to once the process begins, esp when Trudy and Linda start looking at the numbers.

Deb/Andi,

What about the Gateways and kids getting past them in 8th grade?

Do you guys know what happens there?

That's an excellent question Barbara Ann and I don't really know the answer. I do know that at one middle school we had two or three students in the eighth grade moved on to high school in the middle of the year. I was not their teacher, so I'm not sure of the circumstances, but they obviously didn't have to take a test to move on to high school. I do know that the other tests the students take, at least in middle school, are so "watered down" that it's not too difficult for students to pass if they have had any testing experience. In other words, they may not know the answer, but they can narrow their choices down enough to guess well. I won't even mention all the time I was told to spend on reading exercises and test taking strategies the last two months of school. Sorry, I really didn't answer your question. That's all I know.

BA,
remember to get a 3 you only have to get about 40% of the questions correctly-- so in my opinion that is still not doing very well; so you can be failing school and pass eog's!

Andi/Deb,

Thanks. I do know even in elementary school it is practice book after practice book a few months before the test roll around. No wonder many kids can't "think" on their own to solve a problem.

Kids are funny. They will come up and say, "I don't understand this," during a regular test. What they really want you to do is tell them the answer.

Another thing I don't understand is when some kids can have the test read to them. What will they do in the real world when they can't read a math question or a "reading" test?

When I went for my appeal against the reassignment I met the people in front and the people behind.
First couple:
One child at Andrews in 9th and second currently at SW middle reassigned to Andrews. They were appealing on the grounds that the child at Andrews had had many bad experiences. So bad she was now scared to go to school...
Second couple:Daughter reassigned to HPC from SW. Daughter played three musical instruments. Extremely talented.
Mine was another story but all of us lived within WALKING distance of SW High.
The school board is condeming our children to approx 500+ bus riding hours per year against 18 hours of walking per year.
That is the brutal human cost.
These people have no hearts....I hope they have difficulty sleeping at nights.

Where were these stories in the article?

Debora,

The Commisioners meeting will be on Thursday June 2nd.

As far as going from 7 point to 10 point grading scale I was told by a BOE member that many students have not gotten scholarships to many different schools because they look at a ten point scale and they see the students getting b's instead of A's when they have a 92 average in the class. One student from Guilford County was denied a $20,000 scholarship and he is one of seven children in the family and the parents were a little irrated. I would be also.

Let me know if this helps.

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