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Don't worry all you teachers out there and Chewie and Mr. Sun and Billy the Blogging Poet,this blog will soon move to the archives.

Your teacher jobs are safe.

Are you singling out this site to prohibit anonymity, only? I've witnessed much worse dialogue on the Letter to the Editor blog. So, are you going to change the rules for that and your other blogs? If not, why do you want to stiffle posts on this blog? Sounds like you want to stop discourse on this subjectbecause you don't like the truth being told, and this happens to be your most popular blog. Well, I'll comply and cease posting to your blogs.

Teddy, of course that makes sense. You know who reads this.

It is sad, isn't it that a newspaper would try to stifle freedom of speech. I guess the truth hurts too much.

Teddy,

If you take the time to read the discussions on other blogs, which I gave you the link to in my original post here, you'll see that this decision does not center around the anonymous posters on the Chalkboard.

In fact, this issue did not even begin with a school-related discussion (although I'm sure we'd all like to put schools first in everything. I guess that's just because I'm a schools reporter!)

Take a deep breath and go back and read the rather lengthy discussions on Allen's and John's blogs. Grab a doughnut and coffee; it might take awhile to plough through it all.

Perhaps reading all of that will help you understand how the newspaper came to this decision. It does not just affect the Chalkboard; all of the blogs now follow this rule.

If that doesn't help, feel free to ask questions either here or at John' or Allen's blog sites.

Jennifer,

You say that this decision does not center around anonymous posters on the Chalkboard, but I would refer you to your original statement, "We've had some good discussions about anonymity, pen names, civil discussion and defamation on this site and on Allen's. The way that I read that statement is that you have made this decison based on things on this blog and Allen's, so it seems that your decison did center around thngs on this board, did it not?

Hey, Teddy. Jennifer did like me and just cut and paste JR's posting from his blog. So the "this" in this case is JR's blog, not the chalkboard.

Dang. I feel like Bill Clinton defining "is."

What we're striving for is civil discourse on issues of interest to the community. Obviously, right now, people can write under false names and e-mail addresses. While I don't personally object to that -- particularly if they have something insightful to say -- I know that anonymity occasionally encourages abusive and irresponsible comments, too. This new "policy" is our hope that trolls might pause for a moment before throwing a conversation off track.

If it doesn't work, we'll do something else.

As for the issue of freedom of speech, we're hardly stiffling it. There are many, many places to voice opinion at the newspaper, including on the comment sections of blogs.

Thanks Justin and John for helping me to explain.

Teddy, I guess I wasn't clear enough in the first post. I should have explained that I'd gotten the comments from his blog and directed readers there. I'll try to be more clear next time.

Sorry about the confusion.

Yes, it is really me. Are you all requiring lie detector tests now too? Also I am A- blood, a rare find if anyone needs any.

If Teddy, who is one of the most prolific and informed writers leaves this Chalkboard, it would be like Deb M leaving too. The are packed full of knowledge. I think people will just quit posting. Who can they talk to.

Maybe Teddy or Deb can start their own website, or a joint one. That would be super. Teddy seems like he sure reads a lot and I see Deb on TV at every board meeting.

If you feel so compelled to use your real name, please don't respond to my post. Thank you for not wanting spam mail.

People understand who know how real blogs work.

I am one of the people that uses their own name, so this is not an issue for me directly, but fear it will be indirectly if it stiffels discussion. Jennifer/Bruce; What about the GCS employees that might want to add to this discussion, but fear consequences. Is there some way that they can give you their id info but keep it secret from the public view? We want people to add to this discussion, if they don't then there is no reason for a blog.

I meant to add that we should see if the posting slows down/quits after this rule. Over the last two days I haven't noticed many posts so I am afraid my fears are coming true.

I don't think people are getting the "new" policy. It says use a "name". It doesn't say use your "real name". So a pseudonym is fine. Run a yahoo or hotmail address if you're afraid that people will know who you are. There are many ways to mask your identity. Believe me, we proved it on John's blog. *laugh*

Primarily, this is just to deter the "blank name" posters as I can see.

Makes since to me Ben, That gives everyone a chance to post without fear.

The silence is deafening, and pretty silly, too.

Teddy, et al... if you would actually read the policy change you would understand that no one is out to get you.

The N&R blogs ask for a name, as you can see I could have just as well signed this Teddy Ballgame. They want an email address as well, I put in JohnQ#triad.rr.com.

Without some safeguards someone could come in and post under your name and you would get credit/blame for it.

This is not complicated

Ben we get the new policy and we know why. We just aren't going to listen if we don't want to. We know how "news" and "PR" works.

To John Robinson, Bruce and Jennifer:

I was told that Dave Hoggard had been making posts to this blog using my User ID and my email address. This was done without my permission, and as a result, I have been getting unwanted emails. I am filing an official complaint against Mr. Hoggard for assuming my identity and using it in this manner on your blog. This action is inappropriate at best, or even may represent an illegal act of stolen identity.

I am expecting a formal public censure of Mr. Hoggard for this action on this blog. You are the blog host, and it is your duty to police such actions taken against your customers. If there is any question of the actual identity of this post as being legitimately mine, Bruce knows my real identity, and I'll verify to him that I am the real Teddy Ball Game.

Teddy

From the Editor's "log":

You may gulp at anonymous commentators. We gulp at some of the "real" commentators. What's in a name???? Whether you use a real name or a fake name, who knows whether you are using your real name or not. People could have several email addresses.

So really this is all ridiculous and pointless.

Anything you read on a blog site is not a verified reference book. If you know the person or know them from posting, you can then be the judge of considering them credible or stupid or just some nut.

Posted by: Sue at May 8, 2005 10:02 PM

Post a comment

Teddy,

The only post Mr. Hoggard made using your user name and e-mail address came earlier in this thread. In the body of his message, he identified himself as David Hoggard. I think he was trying to make a point that the new News & Record posting rules aren't as strict as some folks are making them out to be.

I have deleted that post, though, because you have been getting unwanted e-mails. I'm truly sorry if this has caused you any inconvenience. Clearly, this is something I need to talk over with my bosses on Monday morning.

But for now, let's just all agree that we won't post using someone else's name or e-mail address. Please?

I'll consider myself censured, Teddy.

You are correct, Bruce. I was making the point that anyone can comment under any name so everyone shouldn't get their panties in a wad when the N&R tries to excert some minimum control and/or accountability.

The point is, Teddy: We have no idea who you are, but you know exactly who I am and I identified myself clearly in the now-deleted post. You said you would stop posting if the paper required even the simplist of identification to protect you against the very thing that you now demand densure for. I find your outrage confusing and misplaced.

You have made hundreds of posts here and now you claim that all of a sudden you started getting unwanted emails because I used your ficticious ID one time? Puleeze.

And lastly, you tell us that a news reporter knows your true identity but the rest of us should not be privvy to such information? Don't you think you might be revealing yourself to the fox who is guarding the henhouse? Again... confusing to this poster who is not afraid to stand behind everything he says... in person.

Bruce,

That is not a satisfactory response to me. I really don't care what Mr. Hoggard's purpose was in assuming my User ID and email address. His actions were inappropriate, misguided and possibly an illegal violation of my privacy and stolen identity. As I said, I want the News-Record to publicly censure Mr. Hoggard for his actions. The News-Record is the host, and you have the responsibility to police such violations. I consider this a much more serious offense than people posting under aliases, which is where all of this nonsense started. Mr. Hoggard's remaining post even advocates this tactic be done by others. This is most reckless on his part, and if this starts on your blogs, you will have some serious matters to deal with.

Teddy

Teddy,
What do you envision as a proper censure? Should my modem be confiscated? A headline 'Hoggard is a dirty rotten identity thief'? Me thinks you protest too much. My point is made and I have no intention of using your, or anyone else's 'handle' in the future. But others might and that is the whole point of all of this.

The N&R wants to put some control over who comments and you initially responded by saying you are going to take your ball and go home if they do so. Your feined outrage is tiring.

Are you just now figuring out that anyone can post under any name? like you do?

Do you not see the silliness of your argument? An anonymous poster (you) is trying to bring his/her wrath down on a real-name poster (me) for pointing out the pitfalls of anonymous posting.

Get over it.

If you don't want your modem anymore Hogg, I always have use for more bandwidth. *laugh* If Teddy gets your modem confiscated, let me know so you won't be wasting all that precious bandwidth that you pay for. *grin*

I'm not even going to start on the anonymous posting thing anymore. Obviously some with pseudonyms don't get it. Amusing. It's further accentuated by the illogical arguments. I wonder if their Myer-Briggs say that they're driven by (F)eelings instead of (L)ogic. haha.

It IS amusing - Ballgame thinks I should get in hot water/legal trouble for using his/her false identity.

"I feel so silly about all of this, and will make an enormous effort to be a better citizen and contributor here in the future. Thanks for your patience while I sort out my myriad issues."

Welcome to why the N&R wants some sort of authentication, Mr. BallGame. Public lessons smart, but make you smarter. Join in, everyone's happy to have civilized discussion.

How will you be able to stop someone from posting under someone else's name? Can it be done?

Bruce and Jennifer,

Why don't you delete that ficticious apology. I can't imagine that Teddy Ballgame really said that.

It seems you have invited trouble with your new "strict" policy.

My mommy always said, "Don't fix what ain't broke."

Sue, I seriously doubt the apology you cite was indeed from Ballgame - the email address is bogus. But, I would like to think Teddy would get the point of all of this in just such a manner instead of threatening to go away at the mention of the N&R's modest security attempts. Attempts, I might add, that are first steps to end exactly the type of "identity theft" that he/she is so up-in-arms about.
But, unless he/she straightens me out on this, I imagine Teddy's mind is already made up and the facts, nor the intent, surrounding this thread will sway his/her position that...

Hoggard is a scoundrel for borrowing Ballgame's false identity and that is all there is to it.
****************

Chris, I can forsee a two tiered commenting system here with two different levels of confidence in who they may or may not be.

One set of commenters would be validated by the N&R through the poster's IP address before their post is allowed to appear. Their identity could still be hidden to the world (but, I presume, available to the N&R if they so choose.) The second might allow anonymous posting with no validation.

I believe that Blogger, among other services, offers exactly those two options right now.

Hoggard,

It's killing you that you don't know who Teddy Ballgame really is, isn't it?

The only reason a few of you bloggers are pressing the "need to know" issue is because you're really just boring people with no lives. The fact that you think your presence is needed over here trying to "save" the Chalkboard is evidence that if your little blogging world fell apart, you would too.

You crossed the line when you used Mr.Teddy Ballgame's name. You could've made your point without stealing his identity--real or created.

Would you post as "Mr. Sun"?--funny how you don't have a problem with his false identity. And I stand corrected if his name really is "Mr. Sun", and he really is a "mysterious, blinding figure."

Get a life Hog. It ain't here and it ain't on the council either.

Okay, I checked it out and the supposed apology from "Teddy Ballgame" was, in fact, a hoax. So I have deleted it.

It's time to knock it off, folks. No more using other folks IDs, names (real or pen names)or e-mail addresses.

You all need to get a life. I think Hoggard is missing the life that left his website since the Chalkboard.

Now this site has become ridiculous too.

No one will want to post if others are using their names.

The saddes things of mice and men is to thing what could have been.

Goodbye great education blog site.

Since it seems my actions have but the brakes on some folks, let me apologize to Teddy, Bruce, Jennifer and everyone.

I was trying to make a point to Teddy who was so quick to throw his hands up and quit after Jennifer started this thread. My point is this: nothing has changed since everyone started posting here. JR's policy change was only to require a name... any name, be assigned to comments. His pronouncement was not some sinister method of stifling discussion nor of trying to discern the identity of posters. Actually the opposite is true... they encourage free and open exchange more so than any other newspaper on the planet. Apparently stifling conversation was percieved by many as my job, although the stifling was quite unintended on my part.

Truth is, Ellen, every site has its own set of posters and commenters where they feel comfortable and this one is purely about education. No one is more passionate about public education than I so I check in daily just like you do. Do I miss your comments at my place? Sure. But as long as you are staying involved in this important experiment I could really care less where you pop up and make yourself heard. (And, just for the record, my readership has soared in the last few months thanks in no small part to the N&R's blogs)

Again... please accept my apologies. Nothing has changed execept perhaps folks are a lot wiser to the pitfalls of this medium.

How do we know the post on 5/9/05 at 09:56 PM is really David Hoggard? Bruce, was this really David apologizing?

You win on "the pitfalls of this medium". How true.

Hogg said, "JR's policy change was only to require a name... any name, be assigned to comments."

I disagree. You've always been required to enter "a" name and email address. It seems clear that N&R was looking for a real name, somehow verifiable, and a valid email address. A "new rule" as the title says means that something is supposed to be done differently.

Now, are they going to change anything? Or have they decided that things were OK the way they were? If things are OK the way they were, why haven't they just admitted it?

Oh, and Hogg, I read in the N&R yesterday a comment from Earl Jones. It said "To apologize and then not extend some type of compensation, I think, would be just as much a slap in the face." Can we make suggestions here as to what compensation we want from you?

Sure Chris... go for it. What might you require? Please make your required compensation equal to any percieved or real damages, though.

Oh boy, this could be fun. Let me have a couple hours to think about it. I can think of one right off the bat. A little place you could go but you might not like the climate. It's very HOT and there are no "winders". Then again, I'm sure this trip has been suggested to you many times before.

Actually no one has suggested that I go to hell for many many years, probably since middle school.

I made an error of taking you seriously. My mistake. Crap like that is easy to do under disguise, isn't it?

Take your own advice, Chris.

INCORRECT!
I'm sure many, many people have suggested that you do just that.

I haven't heard anybody use the word "crap" since middle school.

Chris/Teddy/whoever you are - it's time for you to shut up now. If you want to harass Hoggard, take it elsewhere, like his email box. That's not what this forum is for.

And you were wrong, not surprisingly, on the policy change. You said:

"You've always been required to enter "a" name and email address. It seems clear that N&R was looking for a real name, somehow verifiable, and a valid email address. A "new rule" as the title says means that something is supposed to be done differently."

In fact, under the old way of doing things, you were required to enter neither a name nor an email address. You could simply leave everything blank.

If your facts are wrong and you're just here telling people to go to hell, I think it would be best if you found something else to do and somewhere else to do it.

Enough,

I think Hoggard is very capable of fighting his own battles -- a battle that ended just a couple short hours after it started.

He's a big boy and I don't think either of us were going to take it too far. Relax!

fyi- I tried to post without a name and email address and this is the message I got:

Your comment submission failed for the following reasons:

Name and email address are required.

Enough,

I doubt that "Chris" is Teddy. That has not seemed like his style on the Chalkboard before.

Are you children done yet? And I would think that Hoggard can fight his own battles and so can Teddy.

Chris, requiring a name and an email are the NEW rules. They didn't used to be required -- that was the whole change. So that proof you offered proves exactly nothing.

"fyi- I tried to post without a name and email address and this is the message I got:

Your comment submission failed for the following reasons:

Name and email address are required."

And yes, I'm done.

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