News-Record.com

Bruce,

I read the article and with all due respect, I was disappointed.

A clarification in tomorrow's paper is in order.

Last year all students who correctly submitted their application received their first choice. On page 11 in the illustration, under year 1 2004-2005 you state, "Total moved forcibly: 50". This number represents those who did not correctly submit their application. 25 of the 50 were moved from Southwest to Andrews and 25 from Andrews to Southwest.

On the same illustration under year 2, 2005-2006, you state, "Total moved forcibly: 149". THIS IS NOT CORRECT. There were actually 205 students forcibly moved!

If you read the details of the April 6, 2005 letter from Delores Fogg, 267 applications were not submitted correctly. Of those, 99 from Andrews were assigned to Andrews, 112 from Central were assigned to Central. HOWEVER, the 56 from SOUTHWEST were re-assigned to either Andrews or Southwest.

Thus, you must use the same logic in your illustration for both plan years. If 50 were forcibly moved last year, then 205 were forcibly moved this year. (149+56=205)

I respectfully request that you make a clarification in Monday's paper.

Also, obviously absent, was the answer to the following question:

Can you name one single academic achievement of the HPCP?

For the uninformed (and that is definitely the vast majority of people in the county),this article will be very informative. Not sure about Quest's numbers, but I think he is correct. I think the people that frequent this blog are out of the norm and very much more informed than most. In that frame, I wish their had been more specifics, classes offered/not-- interviews with students from Andrews that picked other schools. I see Andrews as being the real problem in this mess-- no one wants to go there and that has to be fixed. I would still like to see each of these be a magnet school or a small school (academy or small school promoted by Bill Gates) with a neighbor hood component. From a numbers view point I doubt that would work.. but then again, I don't think this is working either!

My biggest problem with this "plan" is the diversity issue. No one has yet proven to me that forced diversity equates to better educated kids.

Isn't that the point of the schools? To educate our kids?

Where, what evidence, what data, where are the facts that says that diversity, beyond what occurs naturally, makes our kids smarter?

I will NEVER agree to such a plan until someone can convince me that equalizing the rich/poor and black/white, forcibly, has benefits.

I am NOT for all black schools, or all white schools etc. I can hear the naysayers already. That is NOT what I'm saying. Just give me a minute before you pull out the race card. What I AM for is a little common sense in our schools. Busing across town for the sake of color and income, does NOT make sense.

I know that Dr. Grier paid some author to come to town last year to try to sell us the idea of socio-economic balance in our schools and the benefits of it. This author is highly controversial, just like the plan. I am even more skeptical after hearing that author speak. In fact, he said that a plan such as ours, where only a SMALL section of the district is given "choice", will probably fail. Yes, he said, "It may not work."

Just as we cannot choose our children's friends, just as we cannot choose our relatives, we cannot pick and choose for our schools. What's next, applications at the entrance of our neighborhoods to make sure we get a perfect 50-50 mixture of the right income and colors?

This claim for diversity that our school board tauts, is a cover-up for their failures. It's to hide from that fact that they have failed our children. It's an easy-out to the difficult task of REAL teaching and educating.

It's so simple is stupid. You have 3 cages of rats...two of the cages have rats dying off, the 3rd cage has rats reproducing in record numbers. So, instead of finding out what's killing the rats in the other 2 cages, just replace them from the over-abundant cage.

There, problem fixed! All 3 cages have equal numbers of rats now. Do we care what ailment was killing the rats? Or do we just care that we have the right numbers now?

YES, yes, yes, I UNDERSTAND that our students are NOT rats, and NO ONE is dying. And if even ONE moron posts and gets all bent out of shape over my analogy, then they've missed the bigger picture.

NOT ONE SINGLE ACADEMIC POSTIVE has come from the stirring up of our kids. When will our school board ADMIT that and get on with the difficult challenge of diagnosing the REAL PROBLEM? I don't believe it's income or color. And I don't believe the "income-color shuffle" will cure any ailments.

I suggest to our school board that they get on with truly educating our children. If this task is too difficult for them, they might either try blindfolding themselves, so color is not such an issue. If that doesn't work, resignation is another fine option.

If I paid for advertising in the N&R I would be very disappointed in the quality of such a front page article. I'll place this article in the bottom of the cat's litter box which is where this article belongs, perhaps it can inspire the family cat.

I was not aware that the New & Record was utilized as a mouthpiece for the Guilford County School Board.

"Examined" which you used in the headline is a pretty strong word for what little you had to follow.

A few quotes from students and one from Grier does not in my book, make an "examiniation."

The Guilford County schools are supposed to be all about educating our children. They are not. As education reporters, this article should have been all about "is the new plan educating our children", it was not.

"A full year of data isn't available, but first semester comparisons to last year's 9th graders aren't promising."

One sentence. The whole article that was supposed to "examine" the first year, and that quote above was the only thing I saw that even addressed the academics of the plan.

If you didn't have the data for the whole year, then the article wasn't fit to print.

There was nothing in this article that we haven't heard already. The Year 1 and Year 2 triangles were nice. It showed how ridiculously far our children are traveling.

Give me some ACADEMIC results. During this "examination" the N&R reporters couldn't come up with anything but the logistics of the plan and a few comments? The headline is very deceiving. I thought I was actually going to read about how this plan affects our community academically.

Maybe it wasn't the N&R's fault. Maybe there is, and never will be anything academic to report about this plan. If so, my apologies to the writers.

Sorry, meant to say above:

"maybe there ISN'T, and never will be, anything academic to report about this plan."

It bears repeating anyway.

I think that one of the reasons that so many people are not satisfied with articles that have been published is that they don't even touch the surface of what is really happening.

Dr. Grier, because of his knowledge of how the system works can make numbers do and say anything and they are reported with great accolades without examination behind those numbers.Example would be all the high schools in Guilford County ranking in the top 684 according to Newsweek.Sounds wonderful to those who don't know the real story. There was a rebuttal in the paper which I appreciated, but if an education reporter had really dug in, several great stories could have unfolded.
1.) If Central, SW, and Andrews were so strong academically...why the choice plan in High Point? Seven other High Schools ranked below them. Why not Southern, Ragsdale, and Smith? I know the issue about overcrowding, but The Choice Plan hasn't solved that one either.
2.)If our high schools are offering such quality education that they all rank in the top 684 in the country, how are our students faring in college compared to lower ranking schools and their graduates?
I could go on, but due to space, I'll stop with these two.

Another thing that I think is important that wasn't addressed in todays article (or any that I have seen), is the effect on the athletic depts at the High Point Schools. The girls softball team at SWMS this year was great and next year, these girls are being divided in many directions. This team (if allowed to stay together) could possibly brought home a state championship in their high school years.....now that probably won't happen. Last year one of the best boys basketball players at the middle school level went to a high school that was not his assigned school. He sat the bench for most of the season. I think this student is finishing his last year of public school and will go to private school next year.
I know many don't understand the correlation between athletics and academics, but with my son, I have found it to be great. In our athletic depts., students have to maintain a certain avg., if not....tutoring is required. Our coaches and older players are great mentors. I know students have the opportunity to play at any of the schools, but in sports, the longer you can play as a team, the better your team becomes and the greater the accountability between players that you have established relationships with. I could go on and on about this one, but I'll get off my soapbox....you get the idea.

When we as parents are left to address issues such as these, uninformed citizens don't give us as much credibility as they would to an education reporter. Also, only those who are really interested in education read the chalkboard.If print subscribers get the opportunity to read about our "top high schools", print readers should also have the opportunity to read the real story behind the numbers.

One more example of a good story idea and then I'll go....
How does Dr. Griers raise effect the morale of our teachers?

Thanks for all you do...... just dig deeper!

Bruce,

Personally, I liked the article. It was a good recap. But now after reading all these comments....as you know I call it "Bruce's job security"....look at all the additional stories you get to write. Lots of angles to be covered. So keep on writing and keep on researching. Never thought about the athletics issue that Kay brought up. That is a big point. (Funny how all these top girl basketball players seem to end up at Central.)

Granted, the question of "can you name one thing the HP Reassignment Plan has done academically?" was not addressed. But I think reading between the lines of the article, people could see that it has done nothing so far. A wise person I know has said, "you can either have education for the goal in public schools; or social engineering; but you can't do both." When I see how the HP Plan is working out and see the numbers, how true this seems.

I loved Mrs. T's anaology. And I think we can all clearly see that education was NEVER the goal of this plan. If it was, it is failing miserably. It was just about the right "numbers".

Loved Kay's points on the Newsweek article regarding the three HP Schools. Also, if they were so great, why the shifting of the Title I funds because certain schools may not have met their AYP's? If people did read the Newsweek article, they would realize this is just only one indicator. I think the Newsweek people should be invited to visit Andrews and read all the reports on the HP Plan (violence; suspensions; teachers leaving; failing AYP's) that were written the past 16 months and then see if they think the HP schools are top.

Quest's logic of numbers makes sense. Can you research this do a correction please.

Bruce, liked the charts and graphs. Just verify the number please.

Thanks for all your hard work. Keep digging.

Barbara Ann

I hope there w/b follow up articles - there is still much unsaid. I also am pretty certain that one of the Central students interviewed is "where she wants to be" because she is paying to be in the IB program (lives in Davidson County) - story definitely could use more viewpoints.

Did anyone else see the small story on Delores Fogg going to work for Wake County schools to be closer to relatives in Eastern NC?

Amy,

Miss that story on D Fogg. Where and when was it?

I figured she was leaving as I saw several high paying jobs listed on the GCS website.

Thanks for filling us in on the Central student. A student in the IB program by choice would not be the best typical interview when talking about kids forced in a lottery situation.

And yes, most definitely, there is much, much more that needs to be said and written. After reading the previous posts, Bruce has his work cut out for him.

Just a quick response to a question Amy raised: All of the HPC students interviewed live in Guilford County. The two students I think you are referring to both live in what was the Central attendance area - at least, that's my understanding.

And I actually talked to plenty more students, but I couldn't fit them all in due to space restraints.

Unfortunately, it's impossible to talk to everyone or answer every question in a 40-inch newspaper story. We just tried to get as many viewpoints as possible and address some of the major questions of how this plan is or isn't working.

But I'm sure this won't be the last story we write about the HP Plan!

Reassignment Plan : Year 1

FAILURE!!!

It still amazes me that Grier has the News and Record packed tightly in his back pocket.

If you want stories, go to the school parking lots and talk to the average students who are witnessing the unreported crimes that happen on a daily basis.

Assault,Drug Dealing and Theft are but a few of the crimes that are handled in house by our principals.

Most of these students do not belong in the general population in public schools, but in order to keep the suspension rate and dropout rate down we must tolerate these hoodlums walking the halls.

Alternative schools could be an answer to this problem or youth prison might be a better option for some.

If the system continues to pander to the Socialist beliefs of some of our school board members, eventually one of Dot s' Darling will commit a crime that cannot be swept under the rug and Guilford County School System will lose a Law Suit that they will never be able to pay off.

What Educational Benefit has this plan had on the students of High Point???

The Answer is NONE...

Bruce,

I am one of the parents who you interviewed for this story and I am very disappointed with the article. For one thing, I stated that my child goes to Central for the IB program because I am able to take her there everyday since I work in the area. If that was not possible, she would not be going to Central. Why didn't you focus more on the transportation issue? That's the reason everyone is so upset with this plan. Why must the N&R always put a positive spin on this issue?

Actually, I had a section written on the transportation issues, but we had to cut it out due to space limitations. I'll post it here:

Transportation blues

One common complaint among High Point parents is that the reassignment plan created bus rides that were too long. It's a complaint that won’t be going away soon.

Board members decided against putting nearly $300,000 in their 2005-06 budget request to shorten bus rides for High Point high school students. The money would have paid for eight additional buses.

Board members told parents last year they could expect rides of no longer than 65 minutes. Now, they say that is a goal, not a guarantee.

Jonna Kurr-Murphy has ridden the buses enough for her liking. Kurr-Murphy attends High Point Central for the IB program but lives in the Southwest area. If she took the bus, she would spend three hours a day traveling to and from school. So her mom takes her instead.

Nancy Mickler says flat-out, "If (Chrissy) had to take the bus, I’d pull her out of Central."

And as for this supposed positive spin. Let's see, we...

1. Led off with an eighth-grader who is being shuffled off to Central, despite the fact she lives within eyesight of Southwest. We also talked to her best friend, from whom she will be separated this fall.

2. Pointed out that 149 kids didn't get into SW this year and will be forced to attend a school they don't want.

3. Noted that "the academic programs aren't as strong as they need to be" and that many advertised courses aren't being offered.

4. Revealed that the 2004 lottery didn't achieve racial or socio-economic balance - which was the stated purpose of the whole reassignment plan to begin with. In other words, the first lottery didn't do what the school board said it was supposed to do.

5. Included a parent quote that only 109 kids chose Andrews, a sign that the technology program isn't strong enough to attract students.

6. Quoted a Central student who said, "I have a couple of friends who don't want to be there."

7. Revealed that GCS has spent $2.8 million to implement this plan over the past two years.

8. Talked about how on-campus violence exploded at Andrews and Central this year, including 10 arrests and a principal getting KO'd. We also included numbers on the skyrocketing suspensions among freshmen at Andrews and Central.

9. Pointed out that the number of High Point freshmen failing at least one class during first semester rose by 54 percent from last year. We would've had more academic data, but that's all that is available at this time.

10. Printed a map showing how students are being moved around High Point.

I hardly see that as a rose-colored glasses view. And we gave the school board and administration a chance to tell their side of it, too. If including both sides is bias, well, I guess we're guilty as charged.

Bruce,

I must apologize for my post above.

After reading this mornings paper, I bet Dr. Grier is Locked up in his office, quivering in fear under his desk.

With two Hard-Ass reporters like you and Jen on his trail, he's probably ready to pack the Lexus and get " OUTTA HERE ".

We're not trying to run anyone out of town. I was just pointing out that your statement (and similar statements made by a couple of other posters) that "Grier has the News and Record packed tightly in his back pocket" isn't rooted in fact.

But if you didn't like the article, that's your opinion and you have every right to it.

Bruce, the bullet points listed in your post above were quite impressive. It would have been more impressive if that is how the article was written or if a representative of the school system responded in order to how you have posted on this site.

Quite frankly they have ruined peoples lives and they laugh it off by giving themselves a raise that goes through the roof.

I hope that none of these students (including my daughter) are in harm's way next year by being forced into an environment they wanted no part of.

Bruce,

I appreciate that you posted the transportation information that had to be cut from Sunday's paper.

It was an important piece and I think deemed more weight than the picture of the woman modeling the nice bra that also appeared on that page on Sunday. I'm not sure how much the N&R gets from this bra advertisment, but I would rather have read the facts and comments from those parents that said that they would NOT allow their children to be transported by a Grierford County Bus.

Also, please note that the transportation costs are a little more involved if you dig just a tad deeper:

It's been reported that the school board decided NOT to spend $281,600 for the additional 8 new buses for the "choice" plan.

Actually, using some data stated in the board meeting, it costs them $51,739 annually to operate each of those buses due to the cost of drivers, overtime pay, benefits, fuel and parts, so the additional annual cost for the 8 buses would have been $413,912.

So, the REAL cost in the next year would have been $695,512, and $413,912 annually after that. No one discusses that expense level...

...Just like no one discusses the FACT that socio-economic diversity improving education is just a THEORY, an UNPROVEN theory, a really controversial theory.

...Just like no one wants to address the FACT that the "choice" plan has NO educational benefit. And NO ONE seems too interested in holding the school board accountable for a "plan" that is a dis-service to it's students.

...Just like no one wants to address why our school board cannot find money to repair or build schools, but mention raises and a hidden treasure is found.

...Just like no one will address why the school board is allowed to make a ministry assembly MANDATORY. If I'm remembering the constitution correctly, there is supposed to be some sort of a separation of church and state?

...Just like no one questions the results of a Newsweek story that can catagorize schools into a BEST catagory just by how many AP tests are taken. No, we won't question the validity of that, we'll just take the fact that Grierford County Schools were on the list and we'll run with it. (Does anyone else laugh at the fact that it doesn't matter if even one person PASSES the tests that are used to create "America's Top Schools"?)

BTW, I've cancelled my subscription the to N&R. It's not even good for wrapping dead fish in anymore. When did Terry Grier become the editor?

Bruce - this email went out to a few folks regarding transporation costs. Can you investigate and work up the true costs. I think it would be great if you could do an entire separate story on TRANSPORTATION for HP Plan: true actual costs, time kids potentially on a bus; and safety of all these hormone flying high and no assistants to help with discipline; are cameras going to be added; do all buses now have two-way radios, cost of gasoline, repairs, etc.

CUT & PASTE BEGINS:

Bruce made the comment that the board decided not to spend $281,600 for the additional 8 new buses for the choice plan. Actually, using some data stated in the board meeting, it costs them $51,739 annually to operate each of those buses due to the cost of drivers, overtime pay, benefits, fuel and parts, so the additional annual cost for the 8 buses would have been $413,912. So the real cost in the next year would have been $695,512, and $413,912 annually after that. No one discusses that expense level. No wonder they didn’t approve the 8 new buses.

CUT & PASTE ENDS.

Some people think the the buses weren't approved because the school board (majority Greensboro) doesn't care the time HP kids are on the bus. It doesn't affect Greensboro any. Others feel that they might have just "said" they needed the buses to keep the time the same; would get their money; then say, "oh well, our transportation department did such a great job with the scheuduling and that new software package we bought helped, so we won't need the buses after all. Mmmmmm....what can we spend the additional $281K for - more racial healing for those folks in HP."

Holy water might be cheaper.

Just to be clear, the last line was my attempt at sarcasm.

People in north HP don't need "healed." They live in diverse neighborhoods aldready. They embrace and enjoy this diversity.

They don't have the privilege of being able to join the country club in downtown HP and send their kids off to private schools instead of their neighborhood school.

Did anyone see the news yesterday about school bus drivers speeding.
I dare say this was the school boards solution for the long bus rides.
Oh dear . The ride to and from SW to HPC will now be four hours a day instead of three!
My daughter is so lucky...
Much better to be on the bus instead of at home with the rest of her family!

Yes a mind is a terrible thing to waste on a child. Let's just waste time on a long bus ride.

I posted yesterday on the blog for last weeks article on the "choice" plan but it dissapeared.
My point was:
Where were the stories on the current appeals. The people that live 5 mins walk away from SW and now have to get a 3 hour bus ride. That is 500 + hours a year travel time vs 20 or so walking time. What about the parents who's children were appealing because their daughter was too afraid to go to school anymore?
What about the brilliant muscian that was assigned to Central?
Those were only two people's stories. There were 96 more appeals/stories of hardship/sadness/and absolute stupidity......

Reassigned,

You must've read a different article. Here's how the one we wrote started:

HIGH POINT -- Kristen Frankena points through the window of her north High Point home. There, just past a clump of pine trees, is Southwest High School, an easy five-minute walk from her house.

Both her parents went to Southwest, and she grew up going to Cowboys football and basketball games. She always figured that now, as she finishes up eighth grade at Southwest Middle School, she would be headed to the high school down the street.

Instead, Kristen has been assigned to High Point Central High School. She is one of 149 students who won't get to attend Southwest in the controversial High Point high school reassignment plan.

"I wanted to cry," Kristen said of the day she learned that her request to attend Southwest had been denied. Lindsey Fulton, her close friend since kindergarten, got into Southwest.

"I think (the reassignment plan) is ridiculous," Lindsey said.

Reassigned,

The point you posted is still on the CB and point well taken. It goes to "Arhives" - see May Archives on right or "Recent Articles" and click on the title of article. It was under "No to HP Plan" something like that.

My neighbor has a son who plays excellent violin in the orchestra. That orchestra level is not offered at Central and Andrews. The 3 board members that interviewed them asked no questions. She is hoping for the best as no questions asked, but it is the waiting in the process too which is also stressful on families.

Bruce,
sorry but the human cost and tragedy here is far more brutal than you have portrayed.

Unfortunately, we can't profile everyone who is going through this lottery - that's several hundred students, after all. As noted above, we tried to review the main goals of the plan and talked to as many students as we could.

Bruce,

Do you know how many total people appealed their HP Reassignment this year?

Do you know how many were successful in their appeal? How many were denied?

The letters are beginning to be delivered via registered letter this week.

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