News-Record.com

And since we're rolling out this week's poll question, it's time to update last week's results.

The question last week was, "What should Guilford County Schools do with its teacher assistants?"

Most of the votes - about 49 percent - were in favor of adding back more teacher assistants. Those jobs have been cut in recent years, with the savings redirected to lowering class sizes.

Around 29 percent said the district should keep the current level of teacher assistant staffing.

And 19 percent are in favor of more teacher assistant cuts, with those savings being used for further class size reducations. Oh, and 3.5 percent said they don't know what should be done.

In all, 313 votes were cast in this unscientific poll. Thanks for your response and be sure to vote in this week's poll.

Dr. Grier and the school board a raise??? What about the teacher assistants and their raise?? Check to see how long it has been since they have received one!! The school board's raise is more than double their current salary and it is my understanding Grier is getting a $29,000 raise...teacher assistants make about $19,000-$20,000 a year!!! I'm in the wrong position apparently!!

Now let me see if I have this correct ... if we deduct the $9K car allowance, Grier gets a $20K raise. This is on the heels of the transportation fiasco, charges of conflict of interest, the High Point High Schools "shell game" and missing a deadline to apply for a $12 million federal grant (isn't that the same amount of his requested budget increase?). I guess that's the reward for shuffling numbers just in time for the NEWSWEEK issue. Any one of those errors would result in termination for the average worker ... unless, of course, that "average worker" is hired by a "rubber stamp", unresponsive Board!

Dr. Grier showed some real class (easy to do at $185K+) recommending AGAINST his potential raise last year. He may in fact be due a little tweak. How he ever gets by on that pittance, I will never know.

With recent studies showing this area has LOST real wages to the tune of 2.5% or more the last four years, however, giving him a 17% raise is truly insulting to those of us struggling to feed and clothe our children, pay the mortgage or rent, and soaring gas prices. He deserves a Cost of Living adjustment plus a couple points for doing such a wondrous job. 17% is outrageous in a time of fiscal crunch.

As for the board: A 120% raise?? They have lost their whole sense of...sense. I do NOT believe ANYONE deserves that kind of increase EVER for a public position. And, aside from one or two on the board, are they even really qualified to be making educational policy? Any of them have a doctorate in education? A few may have taught, I grant you. How many days do they meet a month? And what is the entry-level teacher's salary: pretty near the $29,000 offered to Dr. Grier? That's a bit more than $2700 a month. These board members want a THIRD of what a full-time teacher receives, working from 7 AM until (usually) 5 PM, plus nights and weekends preparing?

Insane and insulting.

True, President Bush got a 100% raise a few years back, from $200K to $400K. Do the school board members think they are on a par with our vaunted commander-in-chief?

Hmmmm....get rid of accountability (SACs), force children to ride across town in gas sucking buses when they could walk across the street to school, pay a MINISTRY $45,000 to insult people and stir up racism, ask for half a million more to do it again next year, cut media specialists, teacher assistants, magnet school staff (yet bleed us dry providing busing to anyone anywhere in the county, even if it means only one or 2 children on a bus), force children to attend schools they DO NOT WANT TO ATTEND, announce that lower classroom sizes = better conditions for learning (DUH) (and where is the money coming from to create those classrooms? more trailers?), make an $800,000 deficit disappear without any explanation or questioning, claim that classrooms with teacher assistants test LOWER than those without (based on what, ONE school???), spend millions on the fullan program (anybody seen any positive results from that?), waste more money on STARs workshops, manipulate the data so that schools that perform consistantly well have lower test scores so that they will have something to strive for, have many discipline problems explode without consequences because if reported schools' numbers look bad and bonuses are affected, have conflicts of interest, shuffle title I monies, force schools to purchase equipment from the county warehouse when it would be thousands of dollars cheaper to order from competing companies, and on and on and - -

you get a big fat pay raise that could pay for many new TAs per year, or hire new teachers, or buy supplies for schools (yes, there are schools in our county without paper and regular school supplies).

Aren't you livid? Isn't there anything we can do about this?

A raise was in order, however...

As the N&R pointed out "they knew what the job paid when they ran". They, or any governing body, should make pay raises effective only after the next election cycle.

The body should also build in periodic reviews and conditions of future raises to keep them in line with reality without the creating the hoopla that normally comes with salary adjustments for elected officials.

I believe Dr. Grier and the school board are giving the children a marvelous education. They have shown them that by denying responsibility, blaming others, spinning news, having questionable ethics, kissing political butts and having no accountability, you can go far in this county. You can also make a hefty profit off of tax payers if you're the administrator. Good job!
Now, you teachers and school workers, get back to work and help Dr. Grier make that $200K plus salary!

I am in favor of an adjustment in BOE compensation. My proposal was $500 per month plus $100 for each meeting. This would result in an annual compensation in the 8k-9k range. Alan Duncan was in favor of some after the next election. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Joe,

What about our compensation for having to sit through these meetings?

If you paid per meeting, how many more meetings to you think they could squeeze in? I don't think that would work very well.

The real Barbara Ann

I feel strongly that all boards should have term limits, especially this one. Give them one term of two years, no reelection. This is what public service is all about. They serve their term with the salary that is in place when elected and then give someone else a turn. This avoids the Dot Kearns of the world staying on a board forever and gaining too much political power. All board members who voted themselves a raise should resign. They are a disgrace to Guilford County. Greer should be fired instead of getting a raise. His leadership continues to make our schools worse every day.

I am completely disgusted by this whole deal. I am a third year teacher and make 29,000 dollars gross a year (rounded figure). Aside from taxes, household expenses, college loans, and other every day expenses, I also have to buy a lot of my own supplies/materials for my classroom. Terry Grier's bonus is my entire year's income! In the past, I have also bought students' lunches, yearbooks, and school supplies. I'm finding I can no longer do this because I simply don't have the extra money.

Along with teaching, I work a second job in the evenings and on weekends to support my family, which is true for many teachers I work with. We will also find jobs to work at this summer to support our incomes since teachers do not get paid in the summer (you can choose to have your income divided up into 12 months instead of ten, but that doesn't help when you have bills to pay). Even so, I was aware of the pay scale when I took the job. I love teaching and I wouldn't be teaching still if it was about the money. If teachers are willing to sacrifice for the sake of our kids and their education, the board should be expected to do no less.

Andi,

You are so right about teaching not being about the money. I don't know of a teacher who does it for that reason; it is the kids. For working moms; the hours.

It is sad that male teachers have to work two jobs to support a family. And by the end of the day you are tired. At my age, 5 days of 2nd grade tired me out, but I loved being with the kids. It is refreshing.

Thanks for having the courage so speak out. I wish more teachers would post.

Have you heard anything about the freeze of teachers leaving Andrews. I had heard it two weeks ago from a friend in High Point and now saw it somewhere in today's Rhino. Is this true?

It is a shame the support and help wasn't given a lot earlier in the game and teachers given moral support to stay; and receive the help they needed. We cannot afford to lose more teachers to other counties. Perhaps adding teacher assistants and smaller classrooms would help with the discipline issues.

The Real Barbara Ann

It seems as though Dr. Grier wasn’t well liked in his former position in TN. Some interesting reading can be found in the archives of The Nashville Tennessean. There is a charge for the individual articles, but there is no charge just to read the intro paragraphs.

Here’s the link:
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_action=list&p_theme=gannett&s_site=tennessean&p_product=NTNB&p_topdoc=1

It’s well worth a look!

Not everyone disliked TG, however. Some loved him so much, they followed him here. According to the above ref, they are:

Tony Burks
Beth Copenhaver
Bill Hurt
Jennifer Jones
Joe Yeager

Of course, any board member (or administrator) is free to donate any or all of their raise (or compensation) to the school of their choice as a demonstration of "Putting Children First".

They "voted" to give themselves a raise? It's hard to explain this kind of voting to immigrants trying to learn about democracy. They think a little too logically to swallow that kind of pill and call it voting.

And Hoggard's comment of May 12th, I agree wholeheartedly, what more needs to be said?

I think the $98,400 required for the board members to get a raise would be far better spent in the classroom, especially when the superintendant is reducing the number of teaching assistants in the classroom. That money would pay for 2-3 positions, right?
I understand that the school board members devote time to their positions, but they asked to do so when they decided to run for office.
If the salary of $1,250 each month is for twelve months of work, that's $15,000 for each board member. More for the chairman. If it's based on ten months of work, that's $12,500 a year.
Are the board members serving on the board in order to make $15,000 extra a year, or are they concerned with the education of our children?

I will have to go against the majority here for several reasons. 1)If you are an active (many are not) BOE member, you sit on many committees including project teams for renovation,new schools, reviews of kids thrown out of school, go to local meetings, schools, education seminars etc. there are many hours involved; not just the board meetings. 2) No one should have to pay money out of their pocket to be on the Board -- if you drive all over this county many times a week,wear and tear on tires, cars etc, have a extra phone line for a fax, pay for a cell phone,
etc that would easily be over $500 per month. I feel that this probably keeps great people from running for the board. If we truely want change on the board then people should at least break even on their expenses. Most of us volunteer at schools, even donate money but no one should have to pay for their volunteer work

Maybe a better way would be to pay them the $500 but have a mileage allowance monthly. I don't think they have anything like that-- There is a line item for travel to large conventions (not sure what all this covers, but I don't think its mileage)I agreee that the position is not about making a large amount of money, but about fairly compensating them for their expenses; IMHO

As for Dr Grier, the timing of his raise was WRONG! He had been reviewed last summer and this review should be for this years performance and should not happen until the statistics are in for this year! Tieing his raise to the teachers is good, but the additional retirement buyout was not appropriate in my opinion. As Andi said that is more money than many of our teachers make in the entire year. Yes he handles 68000 employees, but a little sensitivity would be a smart move.

Okay everyone, let me have it. I know this will be an unpopular view- but I want people to run for the board and not have a financial hardship if they are elected.

Does anyone know if Dr. Grier has agreed to the contract extension?

Joe, I don't know for sure, but I can't think of a reason he wouldn't agree to the new terms.

After all, he's getting a big raise and two more years of guaranteed security. And if for some reason he wants to leave before it expires, these contracts are pretty easy to get out of. Nothing but upside for Dr. Grier.

Debora, you are correct that BOE members don't receive a reimbursement for mileage. Several board members told me that they don't expect to make money, but they don't want to go in the hole on gas, tires, wear and tear on their cars, etc.

And some board members do put in a lot of miles during the course of a month.

Joe,
I agree there is only an upside for Dr Grier-- he can always ask to be relieved of his contract. I think most people in his positions are always looking for a a better job in a bigger county.

Only in America can an elected, public body give itself a raise. The U.S. Congress allows itself an automatic increase every year which requires no action on their part. So why not local school boards? The GC Board of Education just gave itself a 150% salary increase. Wow! Do you think this same board would ever pass a motion that an incumbent body cannot vote itself a raise but would only take effect once that person's term is up or until they are voted out of office? What really irritates me is that no matter what we the public say or do or think about what this board did, it doesn't matter. The board members who voted for it knew there would be an uproar and they also knew that within a few days or weeks, the uproar would blow over and be forgotten. Long hours? Many meetings? Extra mileage on personal vehicles? Expected attendance at various functions? Surely they read the job description before choosing to run for election. In reality though, we can't really blame them as we have only ourselves to blame. Why? Because we keep voting the same people in.

Hopefully, the NEWSWEEK rankings will prompt some other BOE's to seek out TG to work the same "miracles" for their school system. However, why should he go elsewhere to break in and train a new BOE? He has everything he could ever want right here in good ol' GRIERsboro!

Maybe Joe is right and he hasn't signed the contract.

Call me naive but I'm still holding onto that small, teeny bit of hope that Grier will use the raise to up the ante of some other school district that he has talked to.

Many great points have been raised so far so I thought it was time I weigh in.

As usual, Deb, has made some very valid points. There should be some type of compensation so a board member would not go in the hole on this job. Otherwise, it may keep some very good people from running. I would think it would be more on an expense type reimbursement. After all, it is a call to "serve" not supposed to be a lifelong "career", like some have seemed to make it. Term limits: ABSOLUTELY. Others should get a chance to serve. They could bring fresh ideas to the table.

I believe I read that Alan Duncan said the raises should go into effect with the new board. That makes sense and is only fair. Otherwise where does it stop to keep giving oneselve raises.

As far as periodic reviews to see if they are doing a great job. Who would do these so called reviews? The commissioners? (another story - won't go there) Great thought but WHO would be in charge of that; themselves. You know what the majority of the school board's answer would be.

There is a lot of time involved in this job and I do agree with whoever said they knew this when they took on this position, but for some it might even be called "hazardous duty" pay, because they have had to listen to all the repercussions and answer thousands of e-mails because of some poor decisions, at times, by majority votes of other members. Some members always return phone calls and e-mails; others just keep that computer on automatic "delete". Some are at every meeting; others are not. I think expense reimbursements and a small stipend are in order.

One thing I would like to see are some additional educational/experience requirements for consideration to serve. One would be that every potential member would have to have served in the classroom for a certain number of hours either as a teacher or as a substitute teacher and possibly as a volunteer, but it must be CLASSROOM HOURS. Volunteering at different grade levels and in different schools might also be advantageous. (Similar to the business world where, for example, for a realtor to become a broker in most states must have sold real estate for so many years.)

They should also be REQUIRED to take so many classroom hours in business courses, Accounting being one of them. If they are expected to run a huge school system and be responsible for budgets, programs and the many areas it takes to oversee running a school system, they should know how to interpret numbers. Simply understanding about education or children is not enough. The job involves spending people's tax dollars and they need some training in the business world.

We are put requirements on our teachers, subs and teachers assistants. I feel the School Board should have certain requirements also.

I will cover the superintendent's raise in a next post as some of you have touched on this subject also.

For a moment let's take emotions out of the equation and look at what does happen in the real business world. Let's think about some of the possible scenerios that have already been posted here and what this could possible mean. Also let's think of where the buck really stops. And who decides on the superintendent's raise, performance, etc.

Do I think the timing is bad as Deb said? ABSOLUTELY. Do I think find the timing very curious because Dr. Grier has had his review already? ABSOLUTELY. Will it matter in the end what WE think? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

For whatever faults Dr. Grier may have, I feel being a weak business person is not one of them. Any superintendent who can make the big bucks will. It is supply and demand of what the market brings. If he gets this raise, it is because the SCHOOL BOARD has allowed it to happen and wants to keep him. That is quite obvious.

What else would you have to pay another superintendent for the same job? It is economics.

I do find the timing curious that a similar job may be open in Charlotte. As Chris said maybe this was to help him seek more money elsewhere, who knows?

Could this also be why now he is being offered the raise now, i.e. to stay here, especially because of the contract extension?

On another note, a credible contact of mine has told me that in the State of North Carolina only ONE year employee contracts are valid. Basically, that no matter how long an employee contract is, it is only valid for one year.

Also, if NC is a right-to-work state like Virginia (I think it is), employee contracts are easy to break. Someone else mentioned how easy it is to move on.

In conclusion, it is the School Board's decision and any career person would be playing the game the same way. Why? Because they can. It puts that person in a strong position also for future bargaining powers.

What CAN you do if you disagree and want to make a difference? Make yourself heard at election time by getting involved and working for some new leaders for Guilford County schools.

There is always 2006; also currently I have heard that there is a possible recall bill going before our state legislatures. So there is hope after all.

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