News-Record.com

What these numbers prove is that, for the 2nd year in a row, THERE IS ONLY ONE SCHOOL IN GUILFORD COUNTY THAT HAS STUDENTS ASSIGNED BY A LOTTERY!

Two schools have "True Choice".

The remaining 106 schools have attendence zones.

This certainly explains why the High Point citizens are split over keeping the "Choice" plan. The ones that want to keep it have TRUE CHOICE and only the Southwest kids are being abducted and bussed across town.

Did anyone notice at the forum how the Central and Andrews folks referred to it as the CHOICE PLAN while the Southwest folks were referring to it as the LOTTERY?

It doesn't matter if its just one student that loses his or her appeal, IT IS WRONG!!! PERIOD!!

Why can attendance zone circles be drawn around over 100 schools in the county, but Susan Mendenhall says they are too difficult to draw around these 3 high schools? (HP Enterprise frontpage either yesterday or Wednesday).

Honestly, the county schools could save some money if they eliminate the media relations position that is now vacant and just let the N&R staff handle it.

Bruce, I look at it a different way..sounds to me like 101 kids are not going to the school of their first choice. My daughter, who is now happily in private school, is one of those that was deported, and than later had her appeal denied. She, of course, would rather have gone to SW.

on another subject, perhaps you ought to do a comparison between the cost of a private school education in relation to how much money GCS wastes educating each child in public school. the more expensive private schools cost about 12 grand a year.The private parochial schools are much less. GCS is spending over 7 grand per student. in light of that, they don't seem to be very good stewards of our money after all, do they?

Mike, I'm certainly not trying to defend the board's actions or suggest that the HP plan is a good idea. I'm sure you are correct that most of the kids who ended up either at private schools or other GCS schools would rather have been at Southwest.

In fact, you can look at it this way: By granting these appeals, the board is creating the worst of both worlds. They are stirring up the community by keeping the HP plan in place, but by granting all of these appeals, they aren't going to get the diversity they want. Kind of makes you wonder what the point is.

That's just one way to look at it, though.

Bruce,

I give credit where it's due and you deserve extra credit for you last post.

Thank you for pointing out the two worlds that our BOE has created.

And thank you for your persistence in getting those appeal numbers.

Maybe, just maybe you're not that bad after all.

Bruce, I totally agree. It's diversity of convenience. especially when you factor in the lack of diversity at some of the other High Schools in the county. Or, in other words, the board and administration will do what they feel they can ram down people's throats with as little fallout as possible. Wonder what would happen if Grimsley were singled out like SW has been?

Bruce, those are good points that you made to Mikeg.

Have you ever considered asking those same questions of well you know, a couple different ladies over in High Point? Or may of few of their friends.

Bruce,

That is intersting information and a good observation regarding what is the BOE's point in hanging onto the choice plan/lottery, if they are granting so many appeals.

One thought that occurs to me is that they are creating the possibility of lawsuits for illegal discrimination. If they are assigning students to a school via the lottery not of their first choice, and then allowing great numbers of those students to appeal themselves out of the assignment, isn't that illegal discrimination? I would think that if you are assigning a class of students on a legal criteria and being consistent in administering it, then they would likely be in compliance with the law. But, when they start granting large numbers of exceptions to a portion of the group and not to others, isn't that illegal discrimination? I'm not even sure that they have an objective criteria for granting an appeal, but rather pick and choose as they see fit. Isn't that cause for legal action alone?

In any event, your question is a good one. Why would they cling to a system that is questionable at best legally, and then break it down after the fact with exceptions on less than an objective criteria? Does Dot Kearns exercise that much power in GCS? Something is wacky in Guilford County. No wonder they were reluctant to release this information until they had to do so. Now, will you advance this question to the BOE to get their answer?

Bruce,

One other thing occurs to me after reading JMO's comments about Andrews and Central having true Choice options. In essence what the students from those areas have is open enrollment options.

The school districts with which I am familar that offer open enrollment at the high school levels, students are responsible for their own transportation, if they choose to attend a school that is not in their attendance zone. This is fair as it gives students school choice, but it doesn't burden the school district with transportation costs.

What we have in GCS in those two schools is an open enrollment policy, preference over Southwest area students, AND free transportation. Isn't this a double or triple dip for those students? And, with GCS' fuel costs ready to take a hike to new elevations, why are we offering open enrolment and transportation? How can this district afford to do that? So, if GCS is stubbornly committed to having open enrollment in these two schools, it seems that they should change the policy and make the students responsible for their own transportation. Then, we would learn which of them REALLY want to attend Southwest. Even better, let's just establish an attendance zone by drawing a circle around each of these "three" schools and offer open enrollment for all students on a space available basis with the student providing their own transportation. Then, we would be with the rest of the education world and saving on our fuel costs. We could put those fuel dollars to work in hiring some more teachers and teaching assistants, and maybe not even have to ration paper products.

Bruce,

Please - ask the board to provide details regarding from which "zone" each of the appeals came. In other words of the 48 appeals granted, how many came from the Southwest zone, Andrews zone, and Central zone. Also, of the remaining 101, how many came from each of the zones.

We all want to know if the appeals process was administered fairly across all zones or was it just the Southwest kids who failed in their appeals.

Stormy,

I like your idea. Give everybody open enrollment. They don't even need to draw new attendance lines. They could keep it like it was before the SW Lottery Plan.

If there are only 69 kids attending schools that they didn't choose, and since all of them wanted SW, they can be easily accomodated in the new classrooms being built. Every one of those 69 should be given a guaranteed transfer to SW next year.

And you're right, anybody choosing a school out of their attendance zone provides their own transportation. Who could argue with that?

School board...are you listening? This is a great idea!

JMO, only caring individuals such as Dottie, Krissie, Alan, Marti, and yours truly are allowed to rule on anything that is as clear as BLACK & WHITE.

Get it, I made a funny. HEHEHEHEHEHE.

I asked Alan Duncan that very question: Doesn't granting all of these appeals undermine the whole purpose of the HP plan? If so, what's the point of having a HP plan?

His response was that the board must consider each of these appeals on their individual merits, not how it might affect a broad district policy like the HP plan. That sounds fair, I guess, but it does seem to be working at cross purposes.

It's also important to note that the appeals are heard by panels consisting of three board members; you just need two to win your appeal. So it's entirely possible that board members who didn't support the HP plan to begin with are responsible for granting most of the appeals. It's also possible that HP plan supporters on the board voted against these appeals, but were outvoted.

In other words, winning an appeal before a panel is a different animal than winning a vote before the entire 11-member board.

Numbersgame, I don't have those numbers, but I'll see if I can get them. I do know that 107 of the 149 students who requested Southwest but were turned down live in the Southwest attendance zone.

Bruce,

Do you think that the BOE's present subjective system for granting appeals without a defined objective criteria will hold up against legal scrutiny? This whole process sounds very arbitrary and not on sound legal footing. If I were the parent of a student who was assigned to Andrews, which was not my first choice, my appeal was denied, and others in similar situatoions were approved, then I think that I would be dialing the number of my family attorney. Their process just is too subjective to be maintained under legal scrutiny. They don't have a consistent process, and the success of your appeal depends upon which board members you get. Does that sound like a defensible process? A recent law school graduate could make a good case on this one.

That's a good question, Stormy, but one that can't be definitively answered until someone challenges the process in court.

It certainly is a subjective process, as you say, because every case is different and no two board members see things the same way. I guess the question then becomes, "Is subjective the same as unfair and illegal?"

GCS has legal representation and I'm sure their lawyers helped set up this process. And Alan Duncan is an attorney himself.

But that's not saying a parent couldn't win this case in court. You never know until you get before a judge and jury.

Bruce,

What you say is true, but what I've seen of this process and how they are using it, I'd say that subjective is definitely unfair and very possibly illegal. All we need is one determined parent to challenge it in court. That's all it took to get the pledge of allegiance banned from schools.

Bruce,
How about a story on the use of my kids' free and reduced lunch status in the lottery. My ears heard the School System attorney tell the board that Dept. of Agriculture policy prohibited the use of this info for ANY purpose other than determining who gets free/reduced lunch. Is this illegal? Is it a violation of my childrens privacy rights?

GCS attorney Jill Wilson did say something about the use of free/reduced on a case by case thing being illegial as per the Agric. division; or something like that. It was 2 board meetings ago. Kris Cooke then asked about how that affected "IT" and was told that the retreat (wonder why) was a good place to talk about that since it wasn't under discussion at the time. Jill said she would be gone at the last board meeting and if racial/free/reduced things were to be discussed it was better to do so when she was there.

Is the retreat being televised?

Its suppose to be televised live, starting at 12:30 Sunday.

Bruce,

In reference to "Numbers Game Question" didn't we know that all kids who chose Central and Andrews got their first choice? It would be interesting to see of who lived in the original Central zone and who lived in the original Andrews zone how many wanted SWH and got it.

In reference to JMO's and Stormy's posts I mentioned the option of true choice/open enrollment in my speech on Tuesday. I mentioned that this is done in other parts of the country but that the families must provide their own transportation and I said "Why not Guilford County?" Our friends in Wisconsin have this in their district and utilized it so their son could go to a smaller school but further away. He must drive himself. Jim Kirkpatrick discussed this same premise in detail before the elections were held.

The idea behind open choice is that it forces schools to perform. It forces all schools to be good so students will want to come. There may be other stipulations for "open choice" and that is if there are available seats at the chosen school.

Also, in many parts of the country they are not decades behind in building schools. They don't wait 17 years to build a school (i.e. Pilot Elementary School) When they need a school, they build a school where the GROWTH is. They charge builders impact fees or make them donate land for schools. But here in the land of Guilford, I guess that would just make too much common sense and the politicians wouldn't like it.

Check out the road trip opportunity!

http://www.scps.virginia.edu/cep/grade9.pdf

Bruce/Jennifer,

Looks like you have another troll/spammer on your blog (see antonio above). Please remove.

truthwillprevail,

Very interesting info on the UVA Seminar in which mr. grier will speak.

Where do the proceeds that mr. grier will recieve end up????????

Is mr. grier taking vacation to attend this function?????????

Is mr. grier listed as a part-time employee of Guilford County??????????

It doesn't say much for the people at UVA to hire a speaker to talk about the solutions for success in education, when this speaker has not had a whole lot of success in his past.

The only topic mr. grier could honestly speak on would be his ability to twist numbers in order to hide his failures.

A CON-MANS work is never done.

Bruce/Jennifer,

One more thing - could you post a link to the Second Opinion article in today's (Saturday's) paper? It is an extremely well-written, thought-provoking article by a mother of children in GCS. It depicts many of the same issues that readers of this blog discuss each day.

Also, there's an acknowledgement of the paper shortage at Jefferson too.

Just out of curiosity, why is there a 'Chalkboard Ad' in every printed article about education but, in many instances, no blog entry?

IMHO, it seem that if it's worth printing, it's worth allowing comments here.

jwg,

I have oftened wondered that myself when I read the N & R. Good Point. It would make sense to have all printed articles that are in the newspaper also posted on the CB.

Bruce, that Second Opinion article today from the parent at Jefferson just made so much sense. This is the second school this week where I have heard there is a paper shortage in the classroom.
Hope you will provide the link.

Also thank you for finally getting the Appeals results on the "IT" plan. We are awaiting the rest of the detailed report which would show how many kids from Central and Andrews who got first choice wanted SWH, Central and Andrews. In other words of every kid who got their first choice, what original school district are they from.

Meant to say 1) what school district are they from and 2) which one was their first choice for each student who received his/her first choice.

Detailed charts. Thank you.

Bruce,

Have you heard with the predicted increased price of gas and possible gas shortage, what effect will that have on the bus situation for all of our schools?

Particularly, the "IT" Plan.

okay it's 12:48 and there is no live broadcast-- I am about 98% sure they said the retreat was to be broadcast! Where is it!

Deb,

Good question, I also tuned in and set the DVR!

I'm sure others have too!

I can't find a link to that Op-Ed from yesterday, but I would be happy to post it:

Does Public Care About Its Schools?
By Sheila Siler

Last spring, I had the privilege of being voted a parent representative to the Leadership Team at Jefferson Elementary in Greensboro. In my naivete, I thought I would be asked to share my insight and goals as to school direction, ways to improve parent/teacher relations, quality of education and other lofty goals.

At my first meeting in August, the very first issue we had to deal with was how to assign the remaining teacher assistants we had, since we had been cut once again. After that, we discussed why Jefferson didn’t get any recognition awards this year when we have 95.4 percent of our students on grade level and met all 21 of our target goals for Adequate Yearly Progress — it seems we didn't show enough "improvement." So, our teachers will not receive any salary bonus from the state this year, and morale is hurt.

September's meeting was what I had envisioned with topics like character education, accelerated reader, how to structure instructional time and that sort of thing on the agenda. Then came Sept. 19, when we were summoned to the school for an unscheduled meeting because the budget was in and we had to make some decisions. Again, in my naivete, I thought, aha, maybe we received enough money to hire another assistant, because we've grown from 725 students at the start of school to 801. Instead, I arrived to discover the task at hand was to cut $31,929.57 from the operating budget, almost $40 per child.

The only accounts we could cut were staff development and instructional money. Teachers agreed to strip staff development of anything that wasn’t committed, and we took the remaining 92 percent from our instructional fund.

Instructional money covers the media center (I still call it the library), copier maintenance, toner and the supply room (copy paper, classroom supplies). Bottom line - we now have an operating budget of $8,000 to serve more than 800 students for the rest of the school year. This means the media center can purchase no new books, parents will be asked to donate paper, and teachers will dip into their own pockets once again to provide resources for their class.

We say we want the best for our children, we say we want them to be successful, to compete in a global society. Yet, we continually strip away from the classroom, chip away at teacher morale and undermine parents' confidence in the system. I chose to put my children in public school at a time when most of my friends were (and are) home schooling because I believe in public school.

My husband and I don't expect the school to do everything. We are active volunteers in PTA, character education programs, the Boy Scouts and our church. We believe in being partners with our school. School is only one component in the raising and educating of our children, but it is a vital one. Most teachers teach because they love it, not for the money. They are overworked, underpaid and often underestimated in what they give to our children. Let's give them the resources they need to do not only an adequate job, but an excellent job. I am not against the magnet school program, specialized instruction or any of the new and innovative programs this school system has implemented, but when the fundamentals are being stripped away, something needs to change.

I know there are no easy answers, but the path we are on is hurting our community - socially, economically and its very heart. This issue affects all of us. If you have a child, a grandchild, niece, nephew or neighbor in school, go ask their principal what happened to their budget this week. Then go talk to your state legislator, county commissioner, city council representative and school board representative. Make your voice heard. The answer isn't more taxes - it's a matter of our priorities.

The writer is a parent of two students at Jefferson Elementary and one at Guilford Middle School.

Deb,

I thought it was to be live too. Maybe it is because Jill Wilson asked them to wait and she would discuss the legalities of using FRL for the "IT" Plan. Kris Cooke did ask that question in reference to the "IT" plan.

Also from everything that I have read the outcome of the busing case in Seattle is still pending.

I noticed the meeting was posted on the GCS channel and it was a long retreat.

Do you think they are taping it?

Bruce, thank you for posting that Second Opinion article - awesome.

I'm not sure why the retreat didn't air, but in a not-so-subtle plug, Jennifer is there and will have a full report in tomorrow's News & Record.

Just out of curiosity, did taxpayers just spend millions and millions of dollars (somewhere close to $7 million) to force 69 children into magnet schools they did not choose to attend? Private school costs are much less than than that, their SAT scores are better & they meet Federal and state educational requirements.

I know that after 2 years of the choice plan, the board has not moved any closer to their goals for this plan: fill empty seats at central & andrews, ease overcrowding at swhs, and create more diversity.

Facts prove that instead of meeting their goals, this ill-conceived, experimental plan has actually CREATED more empty seats at andrews and central. Enrollment at swhs has INCREASED. The added bonus: more students failed classes after the choice plan was implemented! The board has grabbed gobs of money from their money tree, forced a handful of children out of their traditional neighborhood schools and actually moved in the opposite direction they wanted.

Yet, they just keep on going, like the energizer bunny - with no well-defined path, no focus on education or helping kids learn - just running in circles attempting to fulfill individual board member's itineraries.....

Jill was suppose to be at this meeting- and I know it was suppose to be televised. I will let everyone know if I hear why not! Looking forward to hearing from Jennifer about the retreat, and hope it was taped!

I just got back from the board retreat a little while ago. They did not air it live or even tape it. In fact, I don't think they've ever taped the retreats. I don't remember cameras there last year.

Anyway, I'll have something on it in tomorrow's paper.

BTW: There was no discussion on FRL. I stepped out of the room a couple of times - including once to warm up since I couldn't feel my nose or my toes! - but not long enough to miss anything like that.

It wasn't on the agenda, either.

Jen,

Thanks for the very brief update. We will look forward to the newspaper article tomorrow.

WAS JILL WILSON THERE OR STILL OUT OF TOWN?

If she was there, then I wonder why FRL did not come up? Kris specifically asked this and with good reason.

What many citizens have said is how time after time after time, individual board members ask for data at board meetings; it is not available at that time from Central office staff members. They "promise to get it". Does this ever happen?(I am not talking about Anita's proposal for an entire county map, but simple requests)
I think that if a board member asked for some data or questions at a meeting that it should definitely be available by the next meeting to ALL board members. In this way, all members can hear the same information at the same time. We will have to start remembering these requests as we watch the meetings on TV.

Cheryl, that is real funny about the "money tree". I never thought of it that way. Sounds like the theme for a new game show. The sad thing is with all the money that has been spent, the direction is headed just as you stated. Our children are the losers in this game.

Cheryl,

Great point on individual board members itineraries. This was so blatently apparent at the 9/20 forum at P-G.

Local community leaders made this point quite clear as to why they voted (and I would imagine why the groups they represent) voted too.

Amazing how individual parents got up and spoke from their hearts. But other "leaders" just got up and said how they voted because of this "plan". Do you think we should start getting our priests, ministers and rabies involved in speaking for their congregations?

I really thought that at-large board members are supposed to represent the interests of the entire county. I looked up the code of ethics that someone posted for school board members. It is quite interesting to read. I hope everyone will take time to read these.

PRIVATE SCHOOLS WON BIG 21% of children being bussed against their will got the worse choice for everyone. They now attend a private school taking $224,000 from public schools, taking 32 kids with passing scores from Griers portfolio and taking friends relationships and trust in the system away from us all.
GARTH

Garth if I follow your math, it is more economical where our child is now going to private school than the $7,000 in revenue being lost.

Let me see how this is possible. Well for starters there are no Yes Men looking to extract $200,000 per year personally out of this. No string of other six-figure administrators that do not add any value to education. And finally no $122,000 statistician to put just the right spin on the entire web of lies.

Oh and by the way the quality of the private school education can run circles around anything offered by the Guilford County Public Schools.

Garth,

One more thing you forgot. It takes caring involved parents like us out of the public schools too!!! One more strike against GCS.

I know it's a couple of days late, but I wanted to reply to JWG's question.

He wanted to know why we don't have a Chalkboard entry for every education story in the News & Record, particularly since we run a promo telling folks to check out The Chalkboard.

The honest answer is that Jennifer and I usually are busy doing other things. We already spend a significant amount of time on The Chalkboard and creating new entries for every story we write would take even more time.

Having said that, you make a good point and we'll try to update the Website more in the future.

Of course, you can still offer up comments here, even if it doesn't directly relate to the thread topic. If you read a story you want to comment on, feel free to do so anywhere you like here on The Chalkboard.

Dr. Grier, Bruce, Jennifer,

Of the 48 kids who were granted their appeals, how many originally were in the Central Zone, Andrews Zone, and Southwest Zone??????

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