News-Record.com

Thought the School board would enjoy this. I hope you don't mind Bruce but I cut and pasted and sent it onto them.

Bruce,

Here's a quote from this UNC report: "How schools were organized was a factor in black students’ attitudes about achievement, the researchers found.
In particular, the racial and class composition of the most challenging classes, advanced placement and honors classes, at the high school level is critical in determining whether or not a climate exists that produces a burden of acting white".

Since the advanced classes in GCS are primarily a providence of white students (per Terry Grier who said he could tell if a class was advanced placement by the color of the students), how does that quote apply here in good ole GCS? Does the small representation of of black students in advanced placement classes here suggest that such a burden does exist in Guilford?

Yeah, it probably does, Stormy. The number of minority kids taking AP classes has increased in recent years, but they still are underrepresented in these classes.

Personally, I think in order to get more minority kids in AP, you have to get groups of friends to enroll together. No high school student wants to take different classes than their buddies, but if you can get some of their friends in the class - of any race - you can get them, too.

And feel free to send anything you see here on The Chalkboard to anyone you want.

I've got an even crazier idea. What if we provided ALL kids with a sound , BASIC education first. When each child proves to be competent with the basics, THEN promote that child on to a more advanced level of study, REGARDLESS OF RACE!

I can see it's a rainy day and the crazy ideas are just flowing. We all know that would be too logical and logic plays no part in GCS.

To further this craziness, questions of "race" and "level of parents' education" should not be asked on the school application. Of course, now they are pulling tax records to compare property values, and the paid-by-the-hour attorney said there are ways to get the demograpics after Kris C asked that question in regard to the IT Plan, so I guess it doesn't matter. One way or the other, they KNOW which kids are which. Why should race matter at all?

Why don't we end social promotion and make sure a kid can READ and WRITE a basic essay by the time he enters 6th grade. Once a student does accomplish the basics, why don't we ask the student if he or she wants to pursue a college career or would rather go into a vo-tech strand of business courses and on-the-job training. There are endless career possibilities other than Puppetry, Mime and Tap Dance 101.

Of course, this would make too much sense too. It might just fill some individual educational needs. It might just lower the drop out rate. But I guess this wouldn't sound very innovative.

Bruce,

That makes sense, but now here's the $64 million question, "How do you get groups of friends to enroll in advanced placement classes if individuals don't want to do it by themselves?"

Personally, Bruce, I think that getting students of any race to enroll in advanced placement courses is tough, unless the student is motivated to excel in academics, has some inherent intelligence and ability to learn, and pays the price to do so. Advanced placement courses demand so much more of the student, and if they are enrolled in several of them, they will be mightily-challenged. This means that the student must spend much time studying and less socializing and playing sports. And, that, then puts them into the "nerd", 'brain" or "egghead" category, or whatever the current term might be. Getting them to enroll in groups is fine as long as all of their friends are so inclined as well.

For decades kids have been identified by groupings in high school. Long ago when I was in school, you had several various groups in which kids fell. You had the "brains", you had the "athletes", you had the "punks", and you had the "outsiders". Identification of the various groups was easy. Usually, a kid clearly and easily fell into one of the groups. I suspect that this general pattern still holds today. Getting a kid that is in the "brain" group into advanced placement is easy, but getting one of them from another group, or the entire group, into advanced placement would be mighty hard. It seems that it might be a hard sell for most of these kids to buy-in to Terry Grier's "It's Cool to be Smart" program.

Stormy has a good point. I know my daughter loves her A/P classes and talked a good friend into taking A/P English with her. HOWEVER, two other girlfriends tried to talk this friend out of it, saying it was too hard and too much work, to just take "honors" with them.

The friend did end up taking A/P English with my daughter and they recently enjoyed working on one huge project.

She has another good friend at Southern who, so far, want to take classes with his "buddies" and hasn't attempted an A/P class yet.

I can say from the experience my daughter has had with the A/P clases, they are tough. A lot is expected of the student. They must be an independent worker and put the time in to succeed. Many of the teachers do not curve A/P classes so they just don't hand out high grades.

It really should be up to the individual student: some are comfortable with one or two A/P classes; some honor classes and may be busy pursuing a sports scholarship. Each situation is unique and this should be considered. You just can't lump all students in one category of what they want to take. There are different levels of majority, drive, goals and smarts to be considered.

and p.s. MOST do not want Puppetry, Mime and Tap 101 as the only electives left to take.

The biggest underminers of black student achievement in guilford co. has been GCS and several of the boardmembers, rather than peers telling black kids it's not cool to be smart. GCS has sent the message to kids in certain schools; "look, you guys don't have it. Unless we can get other kids in your classes by either moving them or moving you, you don't have a chance". This is the same as a coach sitting his players down and saying : you guys don't have it. Unless we pick up other players from somewhere else, we're screwed". Now does anyone in their right mind think these players are ever going to perform for this coach again, irreguardless of what other players are added to the roster? The "coach" is undermining them (both the students and the teachers)worse than any peer ever could. How can we expect these kids to motivate themselves when their leaders" take an approach like this.

Thank you C.boy. You are a bright boy. You must have taken a few AP classes.

You're exactly right. When your Superintendent and school board go to the lengths that they have gone to in High Point to shuffle, mix, swap and lotto, THAT is the loudest message to kids that THEY are inferior.

Just wait. The city of High Point is going to need the HUGEST TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION HEARING to undo what these brainless boardroom twits have done.

What happens to students who want to take certain AP classes but are unable to because there are not enough students at their high school that want to enroll in them? I believe there is a minimum number of students that have to be enrolled for the class to be allowed on the schedule. Is this fair to the student that has the drive and intelligence to participate in these classes.

Well, Sandy, I understand your concern, and that would be a problem at Andrews High wouldn't it? But swapping advanced placement caliber students from Southwest with less capable students so that one student can have an advanced placement class at Andrews isn't right either, which is what I suppose that the choice plan/lottery is designed to do.

Perhaps, we need a new program that allows qualified students who attend a school that isn't able to offer advanced placement classes the opportunity to apply to attend another school that does. That would be a much fairer and less disruptive program for everyone, and it would cost millions of dollars less than what we have now.

Wouldn't you agree that would be a better solution? What is the value of forcing students to attend another school to staff classes that don't have sufficient demand without them. And, what is the value of forcing and/or intimidating students to enroll in advanced placement classes that they aren't prepared for and don't want?

Why Sandy that's not any more fair than my daughter who wants to study art in college not being able to attend the Art Magnet School that is only a 5 minute walk from her home.

I'm not interested in fair any more. I just do not want to see any tax dollars wasted.

You're right, Kelly's dad, this has been a problem at Andrews. It is one of the main reason why Andrews parents went to the board several years ago. We wanted the same educational opportunities for our students that you want and have for your grandchildren. We opted for redrawing the lines so to return Andrews to the state it was in 1999 before the major redistricting. The board chose not to do that and came up with the choice plan instead. My hope was to shift some of the brighter kids from the overcrowded Southwest to Andrews so to make the availability of AP classes equal at both schools. As the plan is only in its second year, it is too soon to see if AP class selection has improved. Most AP classes are only taken by juniors and seniors.

Yes, my daughter goes to Andrews and is doing fine academically and socially. She is not afraid nor has ever been in any danger there. I hate to hear people putting down Andrews and they've never even been to the school. Our PTA is trying hard to improve many things at Andrews and we welcome anyone who is interested in finding out about our school and meeting our kids firsthand. Please contact the school and leave a message at the front desk for the PTA President and I will get in contact with you.

Thanks,

my mother told me to never get in the middle of two dogs fighting but I have to add my two cents. y'all are doing just what the school board wants you to do...... pissing at each other instead of focusing the attention where it needs to be, back on them.

sandy, you're right. every kid should have equal access to a basic education. specialty courses such as AP courses or tap dance or mime or Mandarin Chinese that are not "made" (enough kids enrolled) have been and continue to be available to all kids. The kids that desire these specialty courses simply need to request it from the school board, provide transportation or enroll at the school if it's more than one course. there are lots of kids in guilford county that have done this in the past and are doing it currently. my neighbor is one of them. he takes most of his courses at SW but leaves to take another course at another high school because SW didn't have enough students interested.

stop peeing at each other and aim toward eugene street!

Sandy, I think Andrews might be improving because the problems have been exported to Southwest. Just check the crime reports in the N&R, SW now appears capable of putting up Andrews type numbers from a few years ago. Problems haven't been solved, just moved.

Sandy,

Why do you think that you have a right to "shift some of the brighter kids from the overcrowded Southwest to Andrews so to make the availability of AP classes equal at both schools"? As a wise person said about this matter "I will not allow my kids to be used as unpaid educational mercenaries to fix someone else's school".

I have no need or desire to come tour Andrews. I did not put down Andrews in anyway in what I said. You were the one that made the comment that you couldn't get enough advanced placement students in that school to get a class, not me. You were the one that tried to get redistricting done so as to shift some brighter kids from Southwest to Andrews. I think that it's admirable that you and other Andrews' parents are working to improve the school, as that is what you should surely do. But, do it on your own terms, and don't try to borrow "brighter kids" from aother school to improve your school.

And, I offered a suggestion as to how your concerns could be met: "Perhaps, we need a new program that allows qualified students who attend a school that isn't able to offer advanced placement classes the opportunity to apply to attend another school that does. That would be a much fairer and less disruptive program for everyone, and it would cost millions of dollars less than what we have now."

Wondering,

So you're admiting that you went to the board and requested a "choice plan" because there wasn't the appropriate AP choices at Andrews for your daughter who probably won't even take one till, like you said, 11th or 12th grade?

Can you honestly say that you requested this fiasco because you wanted your daughter to have smarter kids at her school??

Please tell me that I missed something in your explanation of how this came to be?

Wouldn't home-schooling have been easier than asking an entire county of children to go into a lottery for YOUR child's sake?

Stormy,

that would be more fair than moving an entire county of kids and spending millions on busing so "Sandy's" child can have smarter friends. In fact, some kids do this already as you stated.

That's unbelievable. So if I want new friends for my children, I just go to the school board and ask for a "plan"??

you have to be kidding,

Actually, Terry Grier could have paid for her daughter to go to private school, and the taxpayers would have saved millions of wasted dollars with the choice plan/lottery. That would have been a win-win.

The SW kids went to central didnt they?

Maybe Andrews is improving on its own (with the state in there) ?

Maybe they don't need to bus kids around?

Maybe Dot and Susie hate North High Point!

I think it's clear that Sandy didn't have any intention of moving HER child. She just wanted others to come to her -- and smart ones too.

I bet all her kids' playdates consisted of forcing others to come to her house and they had to bring their best toys.

Regarding my last post. Meant to say different levels of "maturity" - sorry, was in a hurry.

Just catching up on this conversation. So am I hearing this correctly, that the IT Plan was invented so Sandy Allen and her friends could have some smart kids at Andrews with her kid. We upset hundreds of families' lives for that?

NEWSFLASH: The smart kids went to Central's IB Program. The beauty of the IT Plan is that it can be social engineered any way you want. First you had FRL (was supposed to be back to kindergarten), then they went with later dates. You have the family's education level, the race on the school app. You have all the kids' test scores. Now you have everyone's house value.

Next each kid will just require a microchip implant and put them through a scanner to see what bus they need to get on to be bused to make a school "equal" based on all of the above.

I agree with Stormy and the others, kids now take classes at other schools. Just have open choice and let the kids go where they want without a lottery. What about a kid who is forced into a curriculum field they have no desire to be in by the luck of the draw? Where are their specialized classes? What about the juniors and seniors at SWH who do not have adequate electives to choose from who don't want Puppetry and Mime and Tap 101? How is this fair to them?

In the end many kids are getting hurt by the IT Plan. Look at the numbers. It is failing!

GREAT SPEECH TONIGHT JOE!

Well, well, well - it looks like Wake County's little game of social experimentation may soon be ending!

See the story at http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/2815159p-9261426c.html

And here's part of it below:

Wake's majority for busing teeters

By T. KEUNG HUI, Staff Writer

The direction of the Wake County school board was left uncertain Tuesday night as critics of the district's busing policy won one seat and might be in a position to win two others.
Candidates backed by groups critical of Wake's busing policy needed to win three of the four seats on the ballot to potentially gain control of the school board. They took the southern Wake seat with Horace Tart winning comfortably.
Another critic, Curt Stangler, did well enough to be able to call for a runoff for the Cary seat. In the process, he helped oust longtime board member Bill Fletcher, one of the district's most outspoken supporters of economic integration.
But questions linger for the eastern Wake seat. Lori Millberg, a supporter of the busing policy, might be able to get the majority needed to avoid a runoff depending on how the remaining ballots are counted.

"Wake County schools are in jeopardy now," said Wanda Weeks Denning, who came in second to Tart. "The Christian right came in. [Superintendent] Bill McNeal needs to be worried."
Much of the discussion in this year's races concerned Wake's policy of busing students to more distant schools to try to keep schools from having too many low-income students. The district backs this approach on research that shows that academic performance suffers when a school has too many poor children.
School administrators say only 3 percent of Wake's 120,507 students are bused for economic diversity. Many are low-income students from Southeast Raleigh who are bused to Garner, North Raleigh and Cary.
Wake's approach to integration was profiled last month in The New York Times. The report credited the policy with helping to narrow the racial achievement gap.
But several candidates took on economic diversity in favor of giving parents more choice. They expressed support for neighborhood schools and questioned the lack of data proving that the students bused by Wake actually did better.
"The people are tired of busing," said Tart, who called for more community schools. "They share the same concerns I do."
Denning said the problem was that she and Debra McHenry split the Democratic vote for the District 2 seat that covers Fuquay-Varina, Garner and Willow Spring. This, she said, allowed Republicans and the "Christian right" to sweep in. Called2Action, a local advocacy group, was heavily recruiting people to be at polling places in Garner to hand out voter guides.
Tillie Turlington also talked about her support for more neighborhood schools in her bid to win the District 1 seat that covers Wake Forest, Rolesville, Knightdale, Wendell and Zebulon. But what might have had more of an impact Tuesday was the candidacy of Bill E. Simmons, a pastor and former school administrator who likely siphoned off enough votes to deny Millberg an easy win. She had 49 percent of the vote Tuesday night to Turlington's 40 percent. Simmons got 10 percent.
Now the race lies in the hands of the provisional ballots -- votes cast by people whose registration status was in question.

Congratulations to the students of Wake County! Logic may finally prevail in your county!

And, by the way, wouldn't it be great if the Guilford County Board of Education elections were held in October (since they are non-partisan)?

I am 100% confident that if that were the case, Jim Kirkpatrick would be sitting on the board today.

It seems Kiser Middle School has a problem with severe behavior. The problem could have been nipped in the bud if several SROs had been deployed to Kiser immediately after the problem was identified. Some problems don't lend themselves to site based management. Some SROs are overworked and some do very little. Dr. Grier needs to have the capability to deploy sufficent force to turn the problem around.

Numbersgame,

Thanks for sharing the good news in Wake County. I agree that School Board Elections should be held in October. Something about Ghosts and Goblins makes this time seem more appropriate.

And to Joe, Terry Grier ONLY does what the BOE tells him to do. He's just a GOPHER. Don't expect him to solve anything. It's your BOE that needs changed BADLY, like a pair of soiled underwear.

Sandy, if the impetus for the choice plan was to get more "smart" kids at Andrews, did any of the Andrews parents think it strange when Central got twice as many "smart kids" as Andrews? Just curious.

C. Boy,

Extra red twizzlers for you this Halloween. This is so succinct and wise!

I don't think anyone could forget but just in case....

Our buddy Dr. Grier is speaking at the O'Henry Hotel tonight at 6:00. We are meeting at our favorite place at 4:30 for "spirits" and then we'll have a little convoy to Greensboro. Bring your signs, wear your t-shirts and attach ALL magnets. And whoever has the big quilt should bring it too.

It's a guaranteed good time!

This might also be a good time for everyone to show off your School Board/Staff Look-Alike Costumes for Halloween. I've heard there are some really good ones this year.

Actually "Don't Forget!" the traditional Halloween costumes bear striking resemblances to several of the board members already:

There is the spittin' image of a ghost..

then there's Dracula...he likes to suck the blood out of things

Frankenstein...the man-made monster..

The wicked witch..

The cowardly Lion..

You see, no special orders needed this year, the old-stand-bys will be just fine.

Don't forget the Antacids! What a great deal for 40 bucks. It's even worth missing the McTeacher nite. It's so sad those teachers have to work a second job at McDonald's while Grier feasts over at O'Henry and the Chop House.

I was sick for the mom's of the children getting harrassed and bullied at Kiser. There is no consistency from school to school. What gets you expelled at one school is overlooked at another. I would also be talking to a lawyer if this happened to my child and hope that those children can be moved and also that Kiser gets tougher on their discipline! ALL CHILDREN (yes I am yelling) deserve a safe environment to learn.

Barbara Ann, dang lady, you beginning to sound like me. Teach em to read and write and then put the ones going to college in a prep course program and the one's that aren't in the voc ed courses. Been preaching that for years all over this country. Maybe there is still hope.

I can't decide on a Halloween costume this year...maybe I'll be a mime! Or maybe a puppet? So many choices.

My halloween question. If you are the rear end of a horse should you wear a tail or a Grier mask?

I'm so confused!!!!!

Jtownmom,

You could be a puppet or a mime or Bo Jangles - don't forget Tap dancing 101 or Shirley Temple.

Good to hear from you Mr. P. I always believed this. We have been requesting this since 2003. I have sent the SB information on some successful vo-tech programs that are working in this country now and some innovative ideas that could really work here and use the extra space we have at Andrews and still keep it a traditional school.

I see you mentioned my name at Doug's place the other day. I wasn't even in that squirrely strand but knew what you meant about pursuing legal avenues for venting. We had discussed this on line before. As previously mentioned, I had told you luckily my child is not directly involved, BUT you were right about legal avenues. I have heard that some who have kids involved are pursuing this route and other available means. There are funds out there to help. There is also precendence. So there is hope for diligence and channeling anger to work best for the end result.

Also to Deb, DITTO, DITTO, DITTO. I watched the guest speakers on TV last night. I felt for those Kiser moms. No mom should fear to send her child out the door to school. Imagine how she feels all day wondering if her kid will come home unharmed and feeling the anxiety her child feels.

Joe did a great job too.

I thought the principal at A & T Middle College gave an awesome report. He was confident and had a lot of common sense things to say. It seemed like he was really being tested by some board members, but he passed with flying colors. He really came across as wanting to help these kids and being their last hope in many cases. It is amazing to get a 20 year old to finally have the desire to graduate. He is giving these kids focus and purpose. He should be commended for that.

GUILFORD COUNTY - School officials want the Guilford County Board of Commissioners to transfer $888,000 from nearly finished or completed projects to pay for construction problems at two schools.

The money would be moved in two blocks, according to requests, $588,000 from the $9.6 million T. Wingate Andrews High School renovations budget to Northeast Middle School, and $300,000 from 12 other projects to McLeansville Elementary. Both schools are located in eastern Guilford County.

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The request is part of the commission's consent agenda and may be approved with no discussion when the board meets at 6:30 p.m. Thursday in the Old Courthouse in Greensboro.

The renovation construction budget for Northeast Middle School is $3.8 million. But school officials found that would not be enough to cover costs of a sprinkler system and two new exit stairways needed to meet fire codes.

McLeansville Elementary, scheduled for reopening this school year, remains closed until repairs are completed. The project budget was $3.8 million.

The additional money would be used to treat the library building for termites and to remove lead paint.

Officials want to demolish a wing that had been scheduled for renovation but was too dilapidated to save.

About one third of the transfer money would come from the Allen Jay Middle School renovation project.

Meant to say "precedence" - Bruce that computer needs to fix my cliches too. We sure need spellcheck.

Ragsdale-Mendenhall Residence Hall

What does this mean ? Anyone know the history on this?

Just another thought for the day - our kids are not "super glue" and should not be used as such. There is no "quick fix" to the schools' problems. And there is a lot of good going on in some of our schools. We have the scholars and the athletes and the scholarship winners and community service young leaders as prove of this. But unfortunately, there is a lot that needs to be fixed, and not HIDDEN. (i.e. see the test scores; SAT scores; records of fights; records of suspensions; and violence and bullying issues that go UNREPORTED or are not being addressed for the sake of "the numbers"-recently Kieser Middle, for example.)

But to really, really educate (and not just mix and shift the problems around) it takes hard work, time and dedication. It takes discipline in a safe learning environment. It takes good resources; good teachers that we can't afford to lose. It takes support for these teachers; not passing blame.

And it MUST start in the younger grades. Nancy Routh has often said this and I think that is very wise. It also must start at home with values and guidance, but it must start early and be consistent.

And you can hire all the high paid statisticians and "experts" you want. But how do you make the data work? For every "expert" report, there is another "expert" report that disagrees with the first "expert".

How do you really motivate kids to learn? There are factors, home environment or other factors that are beyond the control of the every day classroom. It starts with building relationships with the students in the classroom. It starts with meeting their needs but not forsaking the needs of other students in the process.

By high school, the mold is set.

We need to address the real issues and deal with them. Until our educational leaders are willing to go out on a limb and to this, nothing will change.

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