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Maybe he did a reallocation from the statistician's supply closet!

It gets pretty tiring to see the amount of "crawfishin'" that goes on at Eugene Street. The man is going to need a new transmission he "reverses himself" so much.

No wonder teachers are putting up signs!

By the way, I know of at least three situations that parents supplied reams of paper due to being shorted by "STAFF" Florence was only one of them!

Bruce,

This dog of Terry Grier's simply won't hunt. You accepted an easy answer without following-up. I've sent you some documentation that the school board and Terry Grier were informed about paper shortages two months ago, and Terry Grier reported to the school board that he investigated the matter and that all principals denied that paper shortages existed. So, if it was really a central office mix-up as Grier claims, why did all of the principals deny a paper shortage? Did they report no shortages and did not investigate? If so, what are they doing running a school? If they knew that one existed and lied to Terry Grier when asked, should they be fired? How is it that Terry Grier could investigate a widely-reported paper shortage and not identify that there was a problem within his own central office until the teachers' association discussed it with him? It is unfortunate that teachers are unwilling to report problems in this district except under the cover of an association.

There seems to be some problems here, and do we need to get Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald here to investigate and hand-out indictments for people lying? I can't see any other explanation other than some people are simply not telling the truth. And, if that is the case, isn't it an indictment of our educational system in GCS? What is the school board to think now when a parent reports a problem to the board, and Terry Grier reports back to them that there is no problem. How can the school board have any credibility with parents and taxpayers if they don't take concerns seriously? Will this school board hold Tery Grier accountable for reporting false information to them?

As I understand it, the elementary schools just had their funds for this year "released"-- so they didn't have any money available for office supplies. Terrible planning! Many leadership teams cut instructional supplies to come up with the $35 per student cut that they had to make. This will not be the last of this problem,wait until around April or so and they will run out of money again, or just squeak by... That is why there wan't much to open school with this year.

That being said, I know that many teachers waste paper, only copy on one side.. don't want to write on the board or do something 'new' like think outside the box... If they used a certain paper last year that they had to run off, they want to use the same one this year instead of doing something new. Not every teacher, not even most; but many!

Bruce, it is true that many teachers/principals would rather struggle without than confront GCS downtown. They fear retribution.

debora,

If that is true, when the shortage of paper was reported two months ago why did Terry Grier and principals deny that a paper shortage existed? Any reason why someone couldn't have told the truth and explained it just as you just did? Terry Grier and central office knew at least two months ago about the shortages, and there is documented evidence that Grier reported to the school board that no shortages existed. Alan Duncan told one parent on the telephone that a paper shortage did not exist, based upon information provided to him by Terry Grier. Sure, principals and teachers live in fear of Terry Grier, but it reflects badly upon their professional expertise when they don't tell the truth. Terry Grier did not just find out from the teachers' association that a paper shortage existed in some schools. And, there have been valid reports that it is not isolated to elementary schools. Some teachers at high schools have complained about rationing of paper.

I wish I could explain it, but it think it is weird also. Unfortunately from what I hear, the teachers don't want to complain to the principals and then the principals decide to figure it out within their schools, thereby leaving Dr Grier out of the loop.

The teachers/principals are tired of complaining and not getting help. They fear retaliation, being written up (not directly for complaining about paper, but something else could be fabricated)- Morale is terrible. Cuts have hit everyone deeply. The budget must be looked out better than it was this year. WE had cuts, then some money back, then TA's weren't utilized, the money was given to HS/MS for sports, and now cost of gas has risen, we need more activity buses; guess who is paying.. yep, the schools. NWHS will have to pay about $900 monthly. None of the buses was over recommended mileage, but they(gcs office) ask;they recieve! The board has got to ask the hard questions, and stand firm. Education of the basics needs to be at the top of the list! Not the extras. If we don't have enough money, then hard decisions should be made!

debora,

All of that is so very true. Our schools are in a mess. Morale isn't on the floor, it's in the basement. Terry Grier tells the school board that everything is fine, and most of them don't make any effort to learn the truth. They don't want to know the truth of what is happening in the system. And, sometimes, I don't think they really care to know. After all, if you have knowledge of a problem, as an elected official, you are expected to do somethig about it. It's easier to just hear and accept that everything is fine. Of course, that last statement doesn't apply in a couple of cases, and we know who that might be.

Nothing is going to improve in this school distrcit until there is no leadership, and that starts with the school board.

Debora,

In all fairness to Guilford County teachers, I have noticed over the years that many of my children's teachers using both sides of paper prior to the “shortage”

As I matter of, I took the teachers lead and started printing on both sides at home when appropriate.

There are cases when that is not feasible, children bring home tests and study sheets that are never returned to the school for recycling or reuse. However, you are correct that waste does go on, it goes on in every organization, and as adults, and we should set good examples.

In our home, we recycle everything from shampoo bottles to newspapers. Speaking of I stopped receiving the N&R print edition that move alone cut out waste from our home, saved trees and money. There have also been some limited mental health benefits. Quest made note a few weeks back it would be much more efficient for the school board to receive large documents via email and follow along. In addition, I suggest board members printing only the pages they deem necessary to make notes on or whatever saves their documents to disc if laptop space is an issue. I have requested many items and received them from central office via email so the technology is place.

Some of the items' teachers are implied to supply go beyond paper! My opinion is teachers are not being told to purchase supplies but rather whatever supply they need is not available at that time. Depending on the supply what do you as a teacher, do you ask parents, go without, or buy it yourself. Some items can expensive when you have to purchase them for 25 to 30 students.

I know several parents made public and private inquiries to the board, administration, and central office, as to where and what supplies were needed with the intent of offering to help out.

Unfortunately, this went on weeks and weeks with nothing but denials from those in charge. I even watched Grier ask a principal or teacher at a public school board meeting if she/he had any shortages. At the time, I wondered if Grier was making a feeble attempt at humor or if he was serious if I recall correctly Grier had a haunting grin on his face.

He always has a sly sickly grin on his face except when he makes a point to the SB. Then it changes to a sheepish brown nose type look.
Makes me sick just thinking of it.

Rhonda,
I agree that many of our teachers use our resources wisely, but not all, and some just don't think. I think it is a shame that any teacher has to use their own money for supplies. We are fortunate to have a PTA at Summerfield/Laughlin that gives each teacher money at the beginning of the year to assist with (not enough but it helps)those purchases. I hope that other PTA's do the same. At NWMS we have 'minigrants' for largers items that help with the expense. I think that every teacher should have a 'giving tree' all year long. Some parents can't afford to help, but many others will try to take up the slack.

Another idea is for one school to adopt another through the PTA. We did this for many years at Hunter. We had a drive at the beginning of the year for school supplies, then a hat/coat/mitten drive in the winter and a book drive in the spring. Both schools benefited from this exchange. I am not sure if they are currently doing this, but I think the county PTA should try to get more involved on this level.

If I know the teacher needs something, I will keep my eye open for specials, sales etc. Many other parents would help also, but some teachers don't ask, or give enough notice to be able to look for sales. Education must be a team effort, down to supplies!

Ronda and Deb,

Great points. But, Deb, consider this too.

Just very recently a teacher friend of mine bought an entire case of copy paper with her own money. She said she would be reimbursed from the PTA funds that each teacher is given. But she would RATHER spend the funds on some storybooks for her class or an educational game that will last for years to come. In this way, many students benefit and the benefit is long term.

Why should she have to spend the PTA teacher allowance on paper which ends up in a trash can? Same kids didn't get crayons this year either. Now crayons do not last an entire year. They aren't expensive and parents could buy, but some parents don't. Should a teacher have to buy the entire class crayons?

I have heard that some SWM students have been asked to buy calculator batteries for SCHOOL CALCULATORS. This is not right. I just wrote Dr. Grier about this Sunday night and if he could please get that school some calculator batteries. I am still waiting to hear the results of this shortage.

I was also told that there was not a real shortage at Central. Basically that many teachers ran a lot of copies in lieu of "teaching". Now I have witnessed in some cases where this is true, but I also know that copies of extra information can be great study tools for our students. A lot of high school teachers provide a web link where students can download copies of materials. I think this is a great idea when the item is many pages long. If they don't have a computer at home, they could go to the library. It is not expensive.

There is a lot of waste that does go on at all levels in our schools. But I agree with a post QUEST made about materials sent to school board before meetings could be sent electronically - reference: all the 210 copies the statistician made for every school board member. An interesting, humorous note..... I watched part of the last SB meeting and Sharon O made the statement that she copied on both sides of the paper from what she was presenting. Now that proves someone is truly hearing somewhere about unneccessary "waste".

People know it goes on. The question is what is necessary copying and what is waste? And for those who do waste how do you stop it?

But when it comes to copies for students what is "waste" and what are "helpful learning tools"?

On another note about copies, there where certain grade levels in an elementary school this year that had to make many little booklets. The fact is it was a REQUIRED teaching material; it took a lot more copies than another grade level may have needed to use. Should those teachers be expected to come up with the copy paper on their own for this required reading tool? I think not.

Teachers should have the basics in their classroom provided by the GCS. That is the bottom line. Trim some of the fat at Central Office and but the money back in the classrooms where it belongs.

debora,

I know that the things that you and the PTA are doing at NW are being done for the right reasons. You don't want to see your school fail for lack of necessary supplies. But, I would submit to you for consideration that in so doing, you are enabling central office's bad behaviors. Consider that they are "counting upon" you good people to fill the gap there, and this allows them to utilize funds in other ways. If they couldn't count on you good folks bailing the school out, then they would have to act responsibly for every school and provide them with the proper supplies. This would leave less funds avialable for the "pet" projects that don't necessarily contribute to education in an manner.

Some will say that your school is rich and they can give less resources to your school because you will fill the gap. But, you pay your fair share of taxes and you shouldn't have to supplement the school's "needs" to enable central office's "wants", which usually don't make any contribution to education. Every school should be treated fairly, regardless of where it is located. If you notice, every time there is a budget reduction or shortage, it directly affects the class room. That is by central office design. They know that you won't let the shortage affect your child's education, but you wouldn't pay a penny to support their central office pet projects.

As painful as it may be, we need to stop enabling their bad behavior. $500,000,000 is enough money to provide for a good education of the children of this county, if we had a responsible and efficient administration.

Stormy,
Of course you are correct, and I have thought of that often, but the bottom line is we don't get the same as many other schools (no title 1 money, no equity plus, no small classrooms etc), so the bottom line is 'the kids'-- do we let them do without? It is really a Catch 22! So until things change, I will continue to speak up for our kids, fight the good fight and open the pocketbook.

debora,

One last observation, and I'll let it go. Have you considered that the reason that you don't get everything that other schools get is because they are counting upon your good will to fill the gap? It is my opinion that this will never change until you take action to see that it does. Central Office doesn't want this pattern to change. They like it this way, and as I said, unknowingly or unwillingly, you are enabling their bad behavior. I understand that you can't let your kids suffer consequences, but only the parents and taxpayers of this county will ever change this. It doesn't have to be this way. Every school district in this country doesn't abuse parents and students like this own does. The parents, teachers, and taxpayers have stood up and demanded fair treatment, but it'll take all of them, not just a few.

I know that everyone is sick to death of hearing about the lottery in High Point, but the justification for that plan was that taking middle class kids from a successful school and sending then to an unsuccessful poor school would fix the unsuccessful school. Their theory was that the parents of the transferred students would take on the same good faith role in their children's new school and fill the gap there. Rather than do the hard things that are necessary to make lasting improvements in a school, they took the easy way out and made educational mercenaries out of the students and parents. Will that work? Who knows. I suppose we'll have to wait 3 or 4 years before we declare that a failure.

And, don't think that plan can't or wouldn't be used on NW. They know that you are good faithful parents, and they could get your assistance in helping fix another school. And, why not, your school is overcrowded and not sufficiently diverse, just like Southwest. Those were the two justifications used to pillage Southwest last year. Also consider that when it was done t Southwest last year, no one around the county spoke up and questioned it, because they didn;t have a dog in the fight. Well, when it happens at NW or somewhere else, who'll spek up against it for NW? Paraphrasing a well-known comment, "An injustice to one, is an injustice to all".

Stormy,
Again, I agree with you completely. They know we will step in.. but until we can get equal treatment what do we do? This area of taxpayers are very aware of the HP mess and most of us have stood up and voiced those opinions, and voted for change and will continue to do so. The only way the school system will change is to work towards change. We have to keep up the fight!

debora,

You should know that I am one of you. My heart is in the NW as well. I want the children and parents of this area to continue to prosper.

To Stormy and Deb,

Both of you make some valid points.

I feel that every school no matter where should be given the BASCIS by the school system - copy paper, crayons, scissors, etc. And Deb is correct. If Title I and Equity Plus gives more funds to poorer schools, what is this money used for? Do they need to move kids from the "wealthy" (notice this is in quotes - thanks to the N & R's article a few Sundays ago)to make these schools "better"? All kids can be educated where they are if they have the resources and the teachers.

All parents: "wealthy", middle, and yes "poor" can contribute something. If you don't have money, you can give of your time. If you can't go to the school to volunteer because you work a day job, you can do things at home to help.

It may be easy to say "don't help the kids" as they will keep depending on us to do so and we are "enabling" the same behavior and letting GCS not do their job. But when you see some kids who don't have much, you see holes in their clothes (which is basically a plain white T) and they are the kids who don't bring a snack because their moms didn't send one, or they don't have a pack of crayons while others sit there and color, are you going to let them no eat while others eat? or not color? Or you see a kid (and one of means, but the parents aren't ever around) who sits and stairs at the cafeteria entrance, doesn't touch his food because his "lunch" buddy didn't show that day. These are children; these are not "the parents" who don't participate.

There are some kids who bring $50 toys to show and tell, while others bring a McDonald's toy. As long as they do a good job and participate, no one cares what they bring in. But when you find out a kid's mom takes in day care during the day, works a night job because the dad took off to "Jersey" and doesn't pay child support, you feel for this kid. And yes, you open up the pocketbook for needy kids.

When you are in the schools and you see the reality of some kids' lives, it is another story.

In conclusion, no matter what, every student should have textbooks and copies of handouts that they need to supplement their studies. They should have supplies.

Incidently, I had been out of town and still catching up on my CB reading.

Haven't seen "Murrow" post lately?

Where has Murrow gone?

Until teachers and principals are willing to tell the truth of shortages and needs, the same patterns will continue. There is only so much any parent can do.

So who exactly in the "central office" is getting blamed for the "mix-up" that caused the, first non-existant-but now existant, paper shortage? That person better be getting their resume together. Someone usually gets the ax after "snafu's" like those.

I remember a calling the police "snafu" that didn't exist and then did exist....then a firing...or wait...was that a "reassignment"??

Then the grant application "snafu" that resulted in a firing...

Someone always gets the blame but it's NEVER the Super.

Angel,

The board and central office knew rumors were circulating there was a paper shortage as far back as September.

I would think Central office would have enough good common sense to realize that school started late August and "everyone" would need paper.

No one seems to be able to take responsibility for his or her mistakes. Those are the same people ready to jump on the bandwagon and toot their own horn at a flicker of good news.

Grier was aware...it starts from the top someone should have checked with whoever distributes supplies to the schools. Surely there are records kept as to where the supplies are distributed this is another case of someone NOT doing their job.

If all else fails pass the buck...

Teachers should be teaching and not begging for simple supplies that have used in education since it’s inception.

Is there a breakdown of per student spending by school anywhere (including basic, Title I, equity Plus, and PTA contributed estimate)?

I was curious just what the difference was between 'wealthy' and 'poor' schools.

Dear jwq
I asked the same thing of Bruce a few months ago. I think this is a huge undertaking and would love to see it!

Ronda.

Agreed. No teachers should have to beg for supplies for parents. There are always stacks of kleenex and antibacterial products brought in by the parents. You can thank PARENTS and not Guilford County Schools nor the Health Department for the prevention of colds and flu.

New teachers are amazed at the money they have to come up with out of their own pockets.

It is too bad the schools are not run like a business. You know what you used the year before. You do your inventory periodically. You order supplies based on past numbers. You budget for new necessary copies that may come up, multipacks of instructional materials. You search for the best price and for discounts for paying off bills early. Of course, this would make too much sense.

In the end, the buck stops at the top and should not be continually "passed".

Ronda,

There can be litte doubt that Grier and Company knew about the shortages. Parents were reporting it in September. All that they had to do was actually investigate, rather than sluff it off.

Actually, their excuses ring very hollow. When they cut each school's budget allocation each year, they know where the schools will make the cuts. The only place they can cut is in the classroom. Central Office doesn't have to ask to know that shortages exist. They make the cuts and count on the parents to make up the difference. The only question that I have is what do they do in schools in poorer neighborhoods where they know that parents can't or won't fill the gap. Do they slip those schools a little extra or do they just let them go eat cake?

Angel,

You want schools to be run like a business, then let's recast the public school program and set private schools up on an equal basis with them. There is nothing like competition to make an organization become more efficient and improve its product. Any time you see an organization that is funded by tax dollars with no competition, you are looking at an inefficient and ineffective organization. As an example think of the U.S. Post Office. If laws would be changed to make the post office compete with private carriers on an equal footing, they would have to improve. Actually, the private carriers almost took all of the post offices business, before protections were levied.

Do you think that Terry Grier would be able to run the same inefficient, customer-hostile ship that he does today if parents had another viable choice? Consider the possibility that the government would offer you the choice of your children attending one of Terry Grier's public schools or give you $7,000 each year to apply to the cost of attending private school. Which would you choose? Businesses that are inefficient, deliver a mediocre product, and are hostile to their customers don't stay in business very long, if they have viable competition. Paul Elledge may have a good point about public schools.

Stormy, I'll take the your $7,000 voucher for the private school my daughter attends and have $1,500 left over.

No wait, after the 3 field trips she takes I guess the $1,500 is spent.

For what it's worth: teachers are asking parents to send in copy paper at Irving Park Elementary, which would have to be considered a "wealthy" school by any standards. Did I buy a pack of paper to send in? You bet I did. Even if I supplied the whole school with paper, the cost to me would be less than a month's tuition at a private school. My kid is getting a good education, and so are the kids whose parents can't afford a pack of paper, which is an excellent reason to send your kids to public school, better than a $7000 voucher.

I'd send in a truck load of paper if I knew that would ensure a "good education" for my child.

I wish it were that easy. When I spend time in the classroom I get nauseated. It takes 30 minutes for the teacher to explain that 12 is not only 6+6 but can also be 5 and 7. My child had the answer cirlced within the first 30 seconds and sat patiently while the teacher gave a lengthy explanation. In fact, at least half the class was ready to go on but because of a few with language barriers, attention deficeits and just differences in math abilities, half of the class sits and waits...

In fact, one day I added up that my child got 20 minutes of real instruction during the entire day. That's leaving the house at 7am and returning home at 3pm. Should I expect more than 20 minutes of instruction?

I don't fault the teacher at all. She has 24 to teach and she's only one person. Yea, I said one person. No assistant, on most days. So how do you split kids by ability? I feel so sad for the very high end achievers and the very low achievers. They are the ones that get a not so good education in public schools. The middle of the road kids do fine. But how sad we settle for "fine."

I'm reconsidering my public school choice. I wish the voucher really existed. I would pull my child out today. I'd take the $7,000 anyday. Even homeschooling books are only about $100.00 per year.

So to parents like Angie that say their child is getting a "good education", are you sure? I hope you spend time in your kids classroom. I think our kids are getting cheated.

VV,

I feel your pain. My daughter is so bored in 5th grade. (and mind you she is not AL) All they do is drill, drill and more drills to prepare for the EOGs. There is never that 'teachable moment' which most teachers cherish!!! The last two years she had two great teachers who had a lot of energy and managed to be somewhat creative! But most teachers have to adhere to the strict instructional guidelines or else!!!

What a shame our children spend most of their time preparing for a test!!!

Bonnie,

You are right about "teaching the test". I have witnessed this in 5th grade and 3rd grades also. Most of the math lesson is from practice test books. You have the school standing and then those teacher bonuses. It does not get down to creative lessons.

Voucher Vickie is right on the money. The smart students are very, very bored.

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