News-Record.com

Are we creating AP classes for every subject just to boost the AP enrollment? Thus, our system "looks" better. I hear there's an AP P.E. class. Now c'mon!

No, AP courses are created by the College Board, the same national company that oversees the SAT. GCS has nothing to do with creating AP classes; they simply choose to offer the courses already created by the College Board.

That's one of their big advantages: an independent company creates the curriculum, not a local school system. So the kids in small-town America get the same courses as kids in the biggest, most affluent, districts. The teachers may not be the same, but they are getting the same material.

Thanks Bruce. That's just hard to believe that a P.E. class can be offered as AP.

You will be at the meeting tonite, right?

No, Jennifer will be at the meeting. I'm working on a couple of other stories for tomorrow, including major bus vandalism at Southeast Middle (we have something up on the main page, but we'll have more tomorrow).

And, thankfully, there isn't an AP physical education course. They are all rigorous academic courses You can find a complete list of courses here:

http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/ap/subjects.html

All of these courses aren't necessarily offered at every high school, but they are all of the AP courses the College Board offers.

Bruce, my student told me yesterday that AP P.E. is indeed being offered.

I'm putting my money on cake batter. I don't think she/he is "mixed up".

I've got my "sifting" thru, looking for verifible data. I see where AP P.E. is not listed on the collegeboard website but it could be that it's fairly new.

Either way it's no big deal, I just think it sounds funny and an easy way to earn AP credit.

Does Guilford County pay the exam fee of $82? I am afraid that you will say "yes" so my next question is: How many kids are taking it every year and how much money is being spent in the high schools where only 5% are passing?

Yes, GCS pays the exam fee. At last notice, the district had more than 7,000 exams taken.

Having a curriculum supplied by the college board does not assure that the classroom teacher is qualified to teach college-level material. I am confident that if you compare high school teachers teaching AP science courses, you will see a wide variety of credentials. What support does GCS give the faculty to prepare for teaching AP courses? What guarantees do students/families have that their teacher has background necessary to teach a college-level course?

My hats go off to the fabulous speakers tonight at the Guilford County Board of Education Meeting. I want to recognize the awesome speeches of:

Barbara Ann
Jennifer
Karen
Carol
Garth
John
Lisa

Outstanding words of wisdom were spoken.

quest,

I agree fully. NEVER, and I say NEVER have I uttered the words, "I'm proud to live in High Point". I am saying those words NOW. I was never so proud to see all the eloquent speakers listed above and to know that they are my friends, my neighbors, and my community. High Point now looks as if it is working together for a common cause. THIS is how to evoke change. Thank you all. I'm proud to say that I know each and every one of you. Thank you for your sincere compassion.

God bless you all

ATTENTION: Oak Hollow Estates Area

Go to the Nearest Pharmacy and purchase the biggest tube of K-Y Jelly and Prepare to get F#*!*ed by your School Board !!!!!!!

So much for the eloquent speakers. The School Board just nods, says 'thank you' and then continues to screw High Point.

Thank you very much Board members. May I have another?

Well, the school board just did a huge service to the private schools in Guilford County. All you Guilford College Corridor neighbors: get those applications filled out and submitted before your child leaves elementary school.

Did anyone notice when Barbara Ann started the Public speaking tonight that mr.grier totally Ignored her by getting off his Throne and walking over to have a conversation with DOT ??????????

What an Arrogant ASSHOLE.

Transplant,

Already filled out.

Don't worry, Bend. We've been ready!!!!!!

DO ME, DADDY!!!!!!!!!

AP courses are one of the best opportunities that Guilford County has offered our students.

My concern, especially in my school, is whether or not the teachers are "qualified" to teach these courses. Especially based on the past AP exam passing rates.

One would think that to be qualified to teach an AP level course, one would be qualified to work in a local university.

I would like to see documentation per school,
how many students are taking the course?
How many students pass the course?
What are the final AP scores for each class , for
each school, for each teacher?
My understanding is that every student must take the AP exam.
Are we throwing money in the trash forcing a student that passes the course with a C to take an AP exam?

Under some of the four maps approved for public scrutiny last night, it seems to me like Dudley, Smith and some other inner city schools could get the short end of the redistricting stick.

As Quick pointed out, for Dudley at least, Map B (or was it modified A?), lowers overall attendance but increases the FRL percentages. That will not fly at any GC school. Nor should it.

There is no need to touch High Point at this time. Any redistricting in High Point or Jamestown would cost the district any support for bonds. In fact I would actively ampaign against bonds if this occurs. The reassigning of Colfax to NW as promised and expansion of SW make redistricting in High Point unneccesary and politically expensive. It would hurt the whole county.

I have concerns about the number of students taking AP classes. Are the test results for each school available for the public to review?

We have parents at our school that feel the popular AP classes offered today, AP English, AP US History, are being watered down. They are basing this on their experience with the same classes taken by their older children several years ago.

We have very good teachers teaching these AP classes at our school but have had students score only 1 or 2 on the AP exam. Even our best students, students that score well on the SAT, are top-ranked in their class, are scoring only 1 or 2.

I question whether the teacher is able to present all the material to the students that is necessary for them to do well on the exam. Are we holding back teaching to the very bright students so to include the more average students? I know that experts say that one will benefit from an AP class regardless of their score on the AP exam, but are we being fair to our students who are really capable of a more stimulating learning environment.

I would be interested in seeing the results for last year's AP tests for each subject. Is it possible to get the results for each school for each AP class offered?

Thanks,
Sandy Allen

Sandy, I saw that very data for each school for the last 3 years. I'm sorry that I don't have it now to share but just wanted to let you know that it does exist. It was also very interesting to see. Something that I'm sure GC doesn't like to expose.

You tell 'em, Paris. The stakes are high for you!

How much is it going to cost to open a school within a school at Northwest and Northeast?

How much is it going to cost if they open at the beginning of the school year?

We all know that the schools construction projects rarely complete on time.........................

Are we really gaining or just causing chaos with this proposal?

I'm suprised that the board members did not request this information.

Where did this money come from when it happened for Mcleansville Elementary. Are the parents going to have to roll up their sleeves and get mobile classrooms ready for the students at Northwest and Northeast like they did at Gibsonville and Sedalia?

Do the students at Mcleansville have hot lunches....yet!!!!

Why did no one on the school board ask how much the plan to open a school within a school would cost as oppossed to waiting to open at the beginning of the school year?

Are additional trailers going to have to be added at these schools? If so, who is going to set them up?

What budget will this money come out of?

Is it financially responsible to heat, light, and staff a half-empty school and run half empty buses?

The parents from Mcleansville had to help get the trailers ready for their students at Sedalia and Gibsonville.

Do the Northern parents plan on doing this also?

By the way, do the Mcleansville students have "hot" lunches yet.

Even though the numbers taking the AP courses are up, the GCS schools data reports that the number of students passing AP exams is declining. As a parent with kids who take these courses, I have observed that the AP classes have become less rigorous. In fact, they are now like the honors programs, honors is taught at the average, and the regular classes are more remedial. The idea that kids will be better prepared by taking AP courses only works when the courses remain rigorous.

Frank and Sandy,

You've both seen through the smoke-screen. First off, most high school teachers aren't qualified to teach at the university level. Very few teachers in public schools have master's and PhD's in the subject they are teaching. Most classroom teachers have a bachelor's degree in education. Second, yes, the brightest kids are often unchallenged in a traditional class setting. Didn't the statistician show data that illustrated the top students hovering at the same level, but not improving their performance, while low performing students were showing modest gains? This also shows what happens when the curriculum revolves around teaching to a test. All the effort is put in to bringing up the bottom. It is certainly important for those students, and for our community, to see that all students meet minimum competencies. Please hear that. However, the kids in the middle and the kids at the top also need to have their needs met.

Frank,
Great questions. I thought I would have to jump up and scream at the board. Ask questions!! The logistics are horrendous. I don't think we will need trailers, but the staffing will be a nightmare. There is no comparision between Dudley (all housed together very near Dudley) and this situation. NE and NW are almost 30 miles apart. How will the students get to do sports, join a team, will the principal be at each school half the day, etc, etc. I wrote the board at 6 this morning with these concerns and more.
My biggest complaint is that no(except Darlene/Amos)discussed the students, not the educate of, social adjustment, emotional distress etc was important. Just the MONEY! Yes, and I hear my HP friends stating why would they start caring now! The building could have been used for Fullen and Star training, and other things for the few months it would be vacate. It would not have been 8 months (2 of those months are half of June and half of August and July. If it is ready in Jan (and that is IF)it would be 4.5 months only. Tough decision, but it would have been nice for the public to have a chance to ask questions before the already made decision was voted on.

Oh well, here's to a year of overcrowding (worse) and interesting challenges!

Define which of these would be considered a neighborhood school to Bessemer Elementary at 918 Huffine Mill Rd.

A. Hairston Middle School: 1 mile away
B. Lincoln Academy: 2 miles away
C. Aycock Middle 2.8 miles away
D. Mendanhall 5.3 miles away
E. Kiser 5.5 miles away
F. Northeast 7.3 miles away
G. Eastern Guilford Middle 8 miles away
H. a, b, and c

(by the way the answer would be H)

So why do the new maps show Bessemer Elementary students being bused to Eastern Guilford??? The seventh fartherest away school.

Also where does Mcleansville Elementary fit in to this?

I would also like to know the breakdown of AP exams/scores for each school.

I was told that checks and balances are in place to make sure AP classes are not watered down. It makes sense that the grades on the AP Exam should reflect the grades the teachers gave the students at the end of the course.

For example, if only one student scored a 4 on the exam, that should probably be the only student that scored an A during the class. If a teacher gives 12 A's at the end of the semester but no student scored over a 2 on the exam, there is a problem.

Okay, I asked Ann Barr, Guilford County Schools's advanced learners coordinator, and she said there is no AP physical education course.

Not that it's a big deal, but I just wanted to let you know I checked it out.

Thanks Bruce, I'm happy to hear that about no AP PE. I also found no real evidence. I think the kids were pulling my leg. Either that or just wishful thinking on their part!

You're awesome.

Now, if you could just get some huge, poster size, legible copies of Maps "A, B, C, and D" I'll be your biggest fan.

I just did the math on 7000+ AP tests taken by our students at $82 per test and it comes out to just less than $600,000. Then add the cost to give the PSAT to every 9th, 10th and 11th grader and we're probably up to 3/4 of a million dollars spent. Just so we can say lots of students take both at a time when schools are cutting all over the place because of budget cuts. Does anyone else thing this money might be better spent in other ways?

Jack, Do you mean like in buying out Grier's contract?

Sandy,

What high school are your referring to? Andrews or Southwest. Just curious.

From experience we have had with A/P classes at SW, most of been very intense. This goes from the magniture of the projects, the material and the time my daughter has put in. This is from lots of feedback I have heard from her peers and their siblings who have taken some of the courses previously.

A/P Psychology helped all the students with their essay writing skills. A/P World is known at SW as a very difficult course, lots of reading and essays, critical thinking and tough to get an A. A/P Statistics some get it; some don't. A/P Chemistry is truly college level from seeing all the work. A/P US History - easier than A/P World. A/P English - extremely time consuming, involves lots of analyzing materials, much research, writing and many intense, projects and truly college level.

Only two 5's were scored on the A/P World exam. I am proud to say our daughter was one of them.

Hope this helps.

My daughter loves the A/P program and would be lost without it, but that is her. I think, by no means, should the courses be watered down. You have to be self-motivated and good at managing your time.

I was very impressed at SW that all the A/P teachers organized their schedules at the end of the year where anyone who took an A/P class during the year could come for tutoring before or after school. If you took 3 A/P classes, for example, you could still go for tutoring in all three. Some kids just take the course, and skip the review. Some don't want to get up that early to be at school. These are the ones that do poorly on the tests from what I have heard. So it is important they have transportation to get to the tutoring (not always feasible if bused across town)

I would like to see the programs for A/L kids come back at an earlier age in the elementary schools. We have many bright kids in elementary school who are bored and not challenged enough.

I feel the needs of our gifted children need to be addressed.

Find out more about AP on the following site.

http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/ap/exgrd_intl.html

I find it difficult to believe they can be watered down.

I am all for AP but of course a child needs to be ready and willing. But if a child has done CP and Honours then AP is the next level.

Whats the problem then?

There are many kids that take them and realize all the work involved - just like any other class. And they just don't do what is expected.

I have heard it is extremely hard to make a "1" on the test. You have to miss a lot of answers.

Lesson 1.

SCOOP MAP HP + NO SCOOP MAP GSO =

NO BONDS!

GCS,

I know in most of the AP classes at SWH it is VERY difficult to make an A. There are chances, however, offered by some teachers to get a few extra credit points by taking all the review classes at the end of the year.

Also, some teachers will bump you up a letter grade if you make a 4 or 5 on the test. The results don't come in until summer. So the real challenge is in passing the college test.

NC Transplant, the teachers teaching AP courses at SW are veteran teachers. The AP World History teacher is a graduate of Wake.

Many kids actually become disillusioned when they see how hard some of the courses are and what is required reading time and self-discipline time. They choose honor classes instead.

As for the AP scoring, schools like Duke and Wake will only accept 4s and 5s for college credits. Others will accept a 3.

FORAP,

And there is no problem if a student can at least handle honor classes. He should at least try an AP courses. However, if one can't even pass a basic CP class, that is another story.

I don't think being a "graduate of Wake" makes one any more qualified to teach an AP course than say a "graduate of UNC-G".

That makes me laugh.

Barbara Ann, you're becoming a staunch supporter of SW and its curriculum. Remember, not everyone gets to go to SWH.

Also keep in mind some colleges and universities don't accept "AP" at all. Some will not even accept the college credit that is earned through some of the programs that Guilford county offers--The Early college and the Middle Colleges.

Careful Barbara Ann, you're starting to sound like a School Board representative.

What are you saying, Deacon? I think being a Wake grad is a wonderful thing to have on a resume!

Bruce Buchanan
Wake Forest, Class of 1993

Here's a question. How do you find out what colleges accept which courses? Don't you think that would be important to the students! I have heard that many colleges will give you the hours, but not give you credit for the individual course. Not sure if that makes sense but you can get 3 hours toward total hours, but not for the individual class.

I guess you would need to check with the individual college, Debora. AP credit is widely accepted, though; the vast majority of colleges offer some type of credit for AP success.

Deacon,

My example was to point out that Wake is a very reputable school. This particular teacher is a veteran teacher, and has his credibility established.

As for SW, there are teachers there too that are not so great. My daughter has experienced that also, but not in AP classes. If AP classes are offered in schools, they should ALL have qualified and experienced teachers. But one should not force bus kids away from SW (only school that did not get first choice in the Lotto Game and ONLY school in Guilford County that this happened to) to put them in a school one might "feel" is less superior just to say "Misery love company." You don't tear apart what is working, you build up what is not working.

Each school should have involved parents communicate their needs effectively to the administration. Schools can only be fixed from within not in shuffling the mix and borrowing other people's kids for their own personal agendas.

Yes, some colleges do not accept AP. But many reputable ones do. (the glass half FULL) The Early College at Guilford is a totally different program that the Middle College Programs. Early College is for high level achievers. Middle Colleges are sometimes a last ditch effort to save the kids who might otherwise drop out. (See speech of the principal from A & T Middle - he has had kids sent from jail) I feel both of these programs have been successful.

There is nothing wrong with sounding like a school board member for anyone if you will make a good school board member, that goes for all those just considering it.

Debora, you can look that information up on line at each college. When you take the AP exams, you send your scores to several colleges. If you do well, they will pursue you. Duke, Wake and Elon and Clemson being some of them.

If you e-mail me personally or call, I will be glad to help you with that.

Thanks Bruce and BA,
My son is a long way from AP classes (only in 7th grade) but I would think this info could be gathered by the staff and made known-not for all colleges, but for the UNC system and possibly other NC schools. Someone probably knows it already- again; better communication could be used!

In looking at the AP test data the important thing to note is the number of students showing knowledge/mastery of the subject vs the number taking the test. Every school has good/weak, qualified/less qualified teachers.

The reduced number of students doing well on AP exams is not necessarily a reflection of the teacher but of the situation a teacher is put into when so many students, whether they have the ability/desire or not, are put into an aggressivbe curriculum. It will slow down the class and lead to less instruction than a class of students prepared to do college level AP work. The AP curriculum is set but so is the rest of the courses curriculums. Any of them can be watered down. Again, if students are not prepared to learn at a specific level, the class will be slowed down, resulting in decreased levels of achievement for the entire class. Even at SWHS the numbers of kids getting "passing" scores on the AP exams is dropping. Again- not the teachers fault- they are great - but because the entire class is slowing down, or because many of the kids are not prepared for work at this level. (keep in mind that they aren't necessarily supposed to be- this is college level work for motivated high school kids)
Please posters-look at the issues and facts- and quit running your campaigns on the blog!

Thank you Terry Grier for getting credit for doing something right (among other things) with respect to the AP program.

Unlike your many "fans" on the Chalkboard, I commend you for your strength in the face of a MINORITY of fault finders whose community (Skeet Club Elitists) refuses to acknowledge the depths of their school problems and the lack of commitment to help resolve.

The rest of Guilford County salutes your service to our community.

Bull Person,

You are choosing to read what you want into what I wrote.

I have NEVER and will never be for forcing kids to take AP or even Honor courses if they can't even succeed in the basics. This would be ridiculous. I have said this before on numerous occasions. I am for encouraging students to do their best and give it a try; and for raising the bar. AP classes are not for every student.

I am speaking from my personal experience with AP classes for my daughter and for her peers who have taken AP classes and the experience of their older siblings who took the same classes at SW. Your reference point may be different.

There are many reasons students may do poorly in the course or on the test. For some it is too difficult, others don't test well, at SW being on a block schedule you can forget what you learned the first semester by the time the test comes around, some kids never show for any of the reviews. One girl I know just didn't want to get up that early because she couldn't put on all her make-up and get to the tutoring sessions. She did not have the same motivation when she took the exam as other students might have. Whatever. All I am saying is there are multiple factors in why some kids don't make it. Some kids simply drop out the first week because the see what is expected and don't want to do the work. And frankly some definitely do not have the ability. If a student can't handle it, he should not be set up to feel like a "failure". But it is a balancing act to get them to at least try some of the higher level courses.

But "from my experience" at Southwest, I have not seen any of these courses watered down. It is the same with grades and testing for any kind of class: ability, studying, organizational skills, how well you test, etc.

But I have NEVER known a teacher to slow down in an AP class to catch the others up. Quite the opposite. Many smart kids actually end up in tears because they didn't get their A or B they were used to in the past.

With regard to "watering down" if you read the article referenced at the beginning of the strand, the movement is in place to prevent this nationwide from happening or from kids simply listing "AP" and not passing the test. And even if a kid doesn't pass the test, and makes a "C" in the course. That is weighted at a "4" so it only help him and challenge him.

If you don't believe me about a teacher not slowing down, go sit in A/P World or English at SW an audit the course or volunteer to help and just observe. See if you could keep up with the research, critical thinking skills required and time involved in doing the projects. Particularly, the English is very time consuming and much is required. Ask any SW parents who kid has taken either class. A's and B's are not given out lightly.

As for "campaigning" on this blog. FYI I have been writing on this blog since its inception, have been a regular poster and will continue to do so. I have always spoken my opinion here, in letters to the ed, at board meetings, etc. for several years. I am not going to quit now. Isn't it great to have a true "choice", you can just hit the button and turn your computer off or scan ahead.

I have not personally attacked people when I post. I would appreciate this same consideration.

Bubba-licious--
Hardly anyone in Guilford County is "saluting" TG!
Get out there man and talk to the people.

Ms. Bull--
I like the campaigining on the blog. I hope the issues are discussed from now until November. I don't know about you but I like things to be out in the open.

I agree with Bubbles - I'd like to see all the candidates come on here and debate the issues. Let's get it out in the open and talk about it.

And Barbara Ann, you've been with us since the very beginning. You're welcome to post here any time.

Bruce,

correction: "possible candidate" - no one has filed yet - a consideration is not a "candidate" - "nuff said".

Bull Person,

One further clarification. I have posted before (it was a LONG time ago) and I had written GCS regarding same...that the NUMBER of AP courses taken (contrary to what the "Newsweek" article last year reported)does not necessarily equate to a "top performing school". It can be quite the contrary. This is just one tiny factor. The proof is in the RESULTS and in the total picture.

I would say from what I have read that Grimsley is a good school. Other schools listed in "Newsweek" because of their number of AP courses listed are definitely not top performers. See the NC Report card on line.

and Bruce, you have known me for several years now. I have always voiced my opinion. That is consistency. Don't think that's going to change.

Bubba,

From my conversations with people from around the county, the only salutes being given to Terry Grier are of the one-finger variety. Tell me, Bubba, are you really Terry Grier himself? If you are Grier, tell me if you ghost-wrote the NYT story. They used your line about walking down the hall of a school and knowing which is an AP class be the color of the students' skin. This is a particularly repulsive comment to me. Why in Guilford County do we always have to be fixated on peoples' race rather than equal human beings that all need education? Can't we move on from the 60's and deal with real education issues, such as the fact that our education system is slipping out of the top 20 in the industrialized world? Who knows at the rate we are going, we will be in the mid-tier world class of education.

FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH:
CAMPAIGNING
If you want to try something very disgusting, try campaigning for office with the muck of pitiful information provided us by the school system. I am a Barbara fan! She has done more to keep open the information paths in this district than anyone else I know. Her insight into what is really happening is, at current, the best informed of any I have heard and I believe her contacts and sources of information far surpass any journalistic inquiries.

That Bruce and Jennifer are being managed is absolutely true, but that does not mean they are not credible, just that the people they talk to know who they are and have an agenda to accomplish by controlling the information provided. Their research over the years and knowledge of public education are great, and their articles on the subject of high caliber. I have been interviewed by both and their knowledge of the subject is grand. Even with the News and Record’s owners’ agenda, they still do an incredible job. That bit of kissing up done, Barbara still is a superior resource on par with both of them.

What she say’s is not campaigning, her stands have not changed and her consistency over the years is admirable.

I am campaigning; don’t doubt it for a second. I correct my mistakes, and last election I underestimated Dot and Jim Kirkpatrick. I will not underestimate again. I will spend and do whatever it takes because someone has to hold this crowd accountable for their mistreatment of our poor and underrepresented students. Yes, I also think highly of Deena Hayes, not much wool over her eyes either. As far as I am concerned Barbara is as credible as any on the Board and has a heart and compassion that can cover the cost of any mistakes or weaknesses one might find.

NO, she is not campaigning, she is being Barbara, and I know the difference.

Bruce, I believe this is as good a forum for issues and politics in this election as any in history.

Thanks
Garth

Well, we're glad to have you here, Garth.

I hope other candidates will follow your lead and participate in the discussion here at The Chalkboard.

Thank you Garth. I am truly humbled. WE LOVE YOU. YOU STAND UP FOR THE TRUTH. You represent truth and intregrity and have a heart for kids.

And I am NOT campaigning when I write or speak. I've always been this way.

And to end on one of my favorite quotes

"You can only get knocked down if you stand up for something." Anonymous

Two of the qualities I have always admired most in people is courage and resilency.

Garth has both of these qualities and many more.

Stormy,

You honor me too much by comparing my vision of better education for Guilford County to our education director, Terry Grier. However, your attribution of certain comments and posts to me is in error. I have never, in any of my posts, referred to the color of one's skin by the determination of the makeup of an AP class.

In addition, I don't believe that most residents with children in the GCS are prone to acknowledge Mr. Grier with an extended finger indicating to him that he is number 1 knowing that this display of affection and admiration would completely embarrass an otherwise humble man.

My position has always been that there are the haves and havenots when it comes to education in our county as well as other communities. In general, the nicer schools, typically in the whiter sections of town, get the better teachers and educational facilities. Though white, I too have faced this disparity between different parts of communities and until this recent reversal by certain Board members was in the process of attempting to be resolved.

I fully agree our country is slipping as a whole in relation to other industrialized nations and unless we strengthen our curriculum with the core courses and steer (encourage) more of our kids toward mathematics and the sciences the civilization advantage that we have had for 150+ years will shift to Asia.

garth,
i agree with your statements 110% - no, make that 1010%. barbara ann has an incredible, honest work ethic. she is one of the most diligent, determined, most trustworthy people i have ever known. she defines "integrity". and, the same holds true for you.
what began as a "working" relationship has blossomed into a great friendship! i am the lucky one.
the both of you have my full support.
now.....back to the subject of ap classes!

As many of us have suspected, a semi-regular contributor on this blog has now been identified via document authoring software. Have you heard about the software that universities are using on term papers to enforce anti-plagarism rules?

EKM

Oops - forgot to mention - just use the software and campare it to published articles written by same individual in HPE.

Re: AP statements: Point of reference: I am a long time highly involved parent (in all the SW schools but mostly now at the HS and in the county and state levels) and former teacher. I am speaking from experience as both regarding the AP issue. I simply stated my opinion based on these experiences- I was not attempting to nullify anyone else's experiences nor do I feel a need to justify mine. They are what I experienced and what current AP teachers around the county have told me. I certainly was not attacking anyone's post, or school, or excperience, or whatever. I thought discussion was about shared ideas, experiences, thoughts and more.

Re: campaigning: I don't believe I attacked anyone or mentioned any name(s) but simply suggested that non-issue based campaign rhetoric for the sake of campaigning not be used in the blog. Discussion of the issues, based on facts, is what I believe I called for in this blog. I agree that this will be expecially important to the candidates for school board. Obviously all our candidates at this time, declared or not, care about kids, want kids to succeed, etc. I would like to see conversation around issues based on facts/suggestions/actions, not campaign verbage and attacks or defensive counterattacks. I repeat, there was no attack or reference to any peraon in the post about campaigning!

Garth- thanks for running- I campaigned for you before and will do so again when the time is right. We need committed, credible, business people who have education and child development experiences that are not afraid to diplomatically speak their mind, stand firm on the issue, and can take the hurtful (and often personal) hits that may come when running in a campaign. You handled your last election with dignity and consistent, well thought out facts and have always kept your information in blogs and letters to the editor the same.

Finally,I also suggest that folks refrain from personal attacks, it diminishes credibility. Additionally, please keep in mind that everyone can have an opinion and it isn't necessarily pointing a finger at anyone.
Barbara-hate you thought the post was written with you in mind. Re: AP- I was just sharing my personal insights as most folks have done. I was very careful not to relate anything to any other post-each has a right to their own experiences, perceptions, and opinions. Re: campaigning -My post was simply a general comment as we look towards an active and hopefully constructive school board campaign season. I know what you have been doing- you do not need to defend yourself. Good luck in whatever you decide!

Whoisit,

Well whoisit? Whoisit.

We are all curious as to your investigative acumen.

Please impress us with your ability.

Hanky Panky,

You missed it. The answer is given.

Iknowit,

I did miss it, and must admit I'm apparently not the sleuth that you or Whoisit is, so whoisit?

Who is this person who semi-regulary posts statements and obsesses Whoisit and Iknowit to the point that they must investigate/stalk in order to expose.

Or more than likely Whoisit or Iknowit doesn't know whoitis? Now that's probably the itism that's more truthful, isn't it Whoisit and Iknowit?

Hanky Panky, You are now officially on a "need to know basis" and from your sleuthful words, you don't need to know.

itsallbull- Thanks, Muchas Gracias,
The AP comments you made were quite on track. I did a bit o research on subject before this response. Kind of wish I hadn't now. No wonder 125+ High Point 8th disappeared during the summer of last year. No wonder you can't find a seat in private schools near High Point. No wonder Davidson County...

OKAY, back on track:
I never considered AP / Honors AL etc. as college requirements. I found several of the best schools in my profession could care less about AP / Honors. 2 schools that I talked with that req'd 3.8 for admissions plus 1300 or eq. looked more at Extras. IE Volunteering, School clubs, community activities, Eagle Scout etc.

I did find that the growing trend is to incorporate these classes in the rating system. In my classes we were all "gifted" as the term went in those days. (IE nerds...now where is my slipstick?) and we were equally peeved that a very attractive young lady, not in any of our classes, not even in "college prep" was one of our valedictorians (4.0) and she even dared to take Home Ecc. She also was admitted to Stanford as I recall. Well, a couple + decades later and the ole educational system hasn’t changed much. She would have still found herself headed for a great school, though I am told home ecc. is a bit more difficult nowadays.

But the real problem is that our kids are less prepared from around here than they should be. Instead of aiming for excellence, we appear to be aiming for mediocrity. (IE bring up the poorer schools averages at the cost of the better) While “trickle down” education may seem like an economic theory from the 80’s, it appears at least as valid as the “rub off” educational theory now embraced by our district. The “if I eat at expensive restaurants I will become rich” theory of prosperity can cause one to get fat and go broke all at the same time. Same thing goes for placing kids not ready for rigorous academic challenges with those that are. Those that are do not rub off, they “rub out” the hopes and aspirations of those that aren’t.

In real world I know of a young lady currently at Andrews in their AP classes, she transferred to SW and attended AP there and was overwhelmed. She is now back at Andrews, grades are up and she will get into a great university and probably do quite well. I am proud of her and think she and her parents decisions will help her “beat the system”.

I worked for some very prestigious firms in my career. I can say 20 years later that we did some racial profiling. If a minority student made it through one of the preferred universities they were given a very strong preference over others, giving a significant exception for grades. Not for racial quotas (some pressure though) but for struggles that build character. I am a strong believer in the concept of AP. But to institutionalize the scoring and University application I believe is excessive. It weeds out good students who by no fault of their own had a different peer group. But improving the mark of excellence is still the goal and AP and Honors can help, but they are not the whole solution. I am not sure a really smart student might not take regular curriculum, get straight A’s, private prep the SAT and have a real fun time in High School. (We do not have a copy of Ferris Bullar’s Day Off in our home for good reason)

Iknowit....

...doesn't knowit is exactly what's he admitting.

I see that Whoisit refers to HPE in the post that got this all started. Tell me Iknowit, what entity is he/she referring to since apparently you have the ability to decipher his/her post?

Since many of us have agreed to be more forthright and civil as fellow bloggers on the Chalkboard, you're refusal to be more forthcoming and quite the shady one disappoints me.

This blog has always been so SUCCESSFUL and popular because people have stated facts, debated, gave opinions, used satire, let out their frustrations with the status quo, etc. One person told me it's her "therapy" because she is so frustrated with the High Point situation. It certainly has been an interesting ride and colorful many times.

Sometimes we are the fingernails scratching on the Chalkboard to bring issues to the attention of the public. Truth is not always "nice". Some people think some of us write too long, so what. And yes once you are over 50, you tend to repeat yourself. It doesn't get any better. On the other hand, sometimes if people hear the same message enough it my sink in one day. There are tons of blogs to skip around on if reader don't like the CB. So they can feel free to blog-hop.

But the CB is what it is. It has evolved.

Bruce and Jennifer have let this be an open forum. That is why it has succeeded. People are free to say their piece. Bruce and Jennifer have both worked very hard to provide us with information on education, meetings, maps, etc. when many times we have been left in the dark.

We are all grateful to have this open forum.

And Cheryl, back at ya.

My point is I have always spoken my piece and will continue to do so whether I choose to run or not. In the end, my decision will be what is best for the common good of the children and this county.

Hanky, just call the HPE and ask them the name of their Communist Columnist.

Who's on third?

NowUknow2,

Was that the column that listed 4 candidates losing for ABC? I do remember that they supported only two candidates, Jim and Bill. Was that the column that referred to a "small group of parents" when over 800 came out at SWH? Do you remember they threatened to call the fire marshall that Sunday afternoon?

By the way did anyone see the two super letters in today's HPE?

Is that the column you are talking about? I think it was fairly recent.

Hanky, I know it and who is it,

Is the "semi-regular contributor" Bubba Luvs
Do tell, do tell!

Is it Jon?

Is it Bubba?

Is Bubba and Jon the same person???

correction: "what I feel is best....IMHO"

Agree, Garth, on most of your points on AP classes.

Kids should not be pushed into these if they have no desire or can't handle the work. It sets them up to "feel" like failures. This is not the case. The choice should be up to the individual student.

I believe the key is "balance" for any student in high school. For some kids who thrive on AP classes, fun to them is reading 2,000 pages of Russion literature, but still fitting in sports and friends. For other kids, this would be sheer torture. Many can excel and still have fun and balance. For others it is too much stress. We could push them away from school.

I think the best we can hope for in all our kids is to be well rounded and achieve at their best levels, while still keeping their feet on the ground. Kids today are pushed too fast to grow up too soon. We see this in the influence of the media and just being in a fast moving, competitive world. Our gifted students need to be challenged. I feel the AP classes offer this challenge. These are our future scientists and Nobel Peace Prize winners. (can't wait to see the ABC special tonight and why we are so far behind other countries.)

All students CAN achieve. But the reality is they achieve at different levels. We should identify their needs and the should be met. I would like to see more vo-tech programs in our high schools. Many kids have absolutely no desire to go to college. In the end, they should be able to make a living in today's society once they graduate. We need plumbers, electricians, mechanics, etc. Students should be encouraged to do what they can succeed at - and what they enjoy. But they should all have basic reading and math skills. We shouldn't set them up to fail.

Saw the program last night on ABC "Stupid in America". Other countries have vo-tech programs and proud of it. There kids are succeeding!

Every child is good at something. The "positive" potential in each needs to be brought up to it's fullest.