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Burning the midnight oil Bruce?

So are you saying that Mayor Becky and the rest of the City Council folks in High Point could pass a resolution to stop redistricting until a new high school is built? Now there's an idea.

Bruce, can you post the information about the redistricting forum at Southern on Tuesday evening. I thought I heard on the news it was 6:00 to 7:00. Seems awfully short. Can you post information soon.

Now I know buses don't run over there. People need to plan their car pools.

Board of Education to Host Additional Public Forum on Redistricting
The Guilford County Board of Education has scheduled a public forum on Tuesday, January 24 from 6 – 7 p.m. at Southern High School in the auditorium to receive input from parents in the Southern/Sumner school zones.

The Board is considering combining the Southern and Sumner elementary school districts and assigning students in grades K-1 to Southern and students in grades 2-5 to Sumner.

Southern High is located at 5700 Drake Road, Greensboro, NC.

I thought this was the reason, and from personal experience with Laughlin (k1) and Summerfield(2-5) I loved it for my child. It was a great experience that the babies didn't have to be with the older kids. Primary is a totally different learning enviroment and then the got to go to the 'big' school. Seems like forever ago, logistically we were only about 1 miles apart, it is longer for the Southern area, but very 'doable'-- The staff of both have to make a commitment to doing some vertical teaming with the 1-2 grades (for us), or the 2-3(the transition grades) for them. We have only one PTA, but if we were K-2, I would recommend keeping the separate PTA's This might work for other schools also, like Hampton/Washington. The principal/staff only have a small concentration of things to teach/train on... just a thought. Many people think our success is primarily because of economic/racial status; which could be part of it.. but the learning environment, dedicated staff and community play a HUGE part in success. I am glad that the county is looking into this, Thoughts, anyone!

Debora,

Great points as usual. Thank you for the information on the meeting time and place. (Bruce must still be sleeping - I see he posted early this am.)

I can see where the focus on age could be very beneficial. There are definitely different needs particular to the various development stages. The teachers could be more specialized. Outside speakers for programs/assembly could be geared toward particular ages; same with community volunteers, even subs.

The only problem I see see is it may be a hardship on the transportation issue. If you have 3 or 4 children and may have day care, K-1, and now a 2-5.

This was one very real problem with the IT Plan. One mother I know very well has 4 children and ages spread out - one in pre-school, one at Florence, one in middle and one in high school. Because of the confusion in sibling preference/grandfathering had the IT Plan stayed in place, she could have been going every which way. Throw sports, school activities, family meals into the mix and more driving and price of gasoline, etc.

At the elementary level though there aren't as many extra curriculum activities. If the schools in urban areas are close, perhaps this would be worth trying.

Isn't K-1/2-5 contrary to the board/administration's goal/focus/plan to create K-8 schools?

Good question, jwg, and worth looking up. But as we all know "the board maketh policy and the board can changeth policy". It just takes 6 votes.

I would like to see schools at least grades K-6 and then 7-9 for Junior High like many other school districts have.

There is a big difference between a young 6th grader being thrown in a school with 8th graders who may have failed several times - big age difference and maturity level. 6th grade is scary enough for them with all the changes going on at that age and being thrown into a very different situation than elementary school.

Back in 1999, the BOE tried to make both Laughlin and Summerfield k-5. This would have meant retro fitting all bathrooms at both schools to accomidate all ages, much less desks etc. For once the BOE listened. The community, led by then PTA pres Darlene Garrett came out in force and said that what works should be left alone. These schools are about 1 mile apart and were very successful- we were working! So they left the schools as they were. Of course when the latest bonds were being planned they said that Laughlin would be closed and the Northern School would take half of our kids.. Hahahahahaha They are taking about 300 of the kids, no way they can close Laughlin. They currently have almost 1100 kids between those schools (capacity is 465, 180 to total 645)- that will leave them only over about 200... notice I said only 200. We will think we are in heaven. Also since then, they have reopened Brown Summit as a magnet and even if they were crazy enough to think about closing Laughlin, they would use it for something else. BTW, Laughlin is a historic building, one of the first black schools opened in Guilford Co. There is your history FYI

Seeing what Oak Ridge is doing, I think in north High Point we need to at least look into petitioning to getting some of the street names changed. Would suggest changing Gallimore Dairy Road to "Freedom Dairy Road" (can I see a show of hands) and Mendenhall Oaks Pkway to Benedict Arnold Pkway or the Human Being Formally Known as Mendenhall Pkway. There may be others.

I wonder how Dot and Debbie G would feel if we took the entire IB Program at Central and put it in Andrews. Now that is a great idea!

Think of how all those test scores would go up immediately. Old High Point is so concerned about diversity. This would really go far to prove they are willing to do their part. Debbie G said we are all one big community. This really makes sense. We could be one with the universe.

Send their smart WWWs over to Andrews. I feel that NC Report card rising already. Raises for everyone!

That would be great if we had an official that would stand up for us. (North High Point) Susan M only cares about Emerywood!!!!! The secret meeting to endorse Map C proves that!!!!

Quote

“Busing children across town is not the answer,” said Martin Phillips, a Southwest parent.

Bruce, how can I get a correction to this quote from Fridays article about the school board forums.

I am in fact a Central parent.

So, the quote is not true and I am a person that is very faithful to the truth so it needs to be corrected.

What do we do?

Can you print a correction? This is a very serious matter and any quote can mislead readers. I am a Central parent against busing full stop!

Great point Martin. That definitely changes the flavor of the article if you are saying that as a CENTRAL parent.

High Point Enterprise Sunday Editorial.

Good spot by candy Boy.

OUR VIEW
■■■■
Map out communities for city’s schools
As members of the Guilford County Board of Education go about the process of redistricting county schools, the board seems fixated on four proposals that impact High Point schools and the maps that illustrate those four plans.
  The school board appears already to have made the decision that redistricting plans approved for the three high schools in High Point are to require little if any adjustment in areas adjoining attendance zones for T.W. Andrews, High Point Central and Southwest Guilford highs. Modifications of the Southern Guilford and Ragsdale attendance zones seem out of the question. That’s unfor tunate.
  Attendance zone problems in the High Point area are never going to be settled completely until school board officials and county commissioners realize that significant changes are necessary. Adjustments to attendance zones for several schools in the southwestern section of the county are needed and even a new high school in the area may well be necessary to alleviate strange looking attendance zones and long bus rides for many students.
  That being said, to address the matter at hand, a look at the four maps for the High Point plans being considered shows that two of them immediately can be thrown out – maps A and C. Those two maps remind us of the original 12th congressional district that snaked its way through central North Carolina from Durham to Charlotte grabbing some voters here and some other voters there.
  That wasn’t the way to design a congressional district then and it certainly is not the way to design school attendance zones today. Plans A and C split the city in a way that would make it impossible to establish cohesive school communities, particularly at Andrews and Southwest highs.
  Map D, which seemed to be popular with a number of people attending forums held by the school board last week, gets closer to our idea for what a school attendance zone should resemble. However, it still has too many squiggly lines running throughout the city to be first choice.
  From our vantage point, Map B* seems to be the most logically drawn, reasonably compact map, and seems to create attendance zones that would engender more school community spirit. Some minor adjustments in the lines perhaps could be made in the very northern section of the Central district in this map, but that might not be possible in order to get numbers of students sufficient to fill the seats at Central, the largest of the three schools. However, we could live with Map B* as it is currently drawn.
  To this point, we’ve said nothing about racial and socioeconomic diversity. That’s because, while those factors certainly deserve and should get consideration, designing attendance zones in a way to stimulate the growth of school communities is more important – because if you tear apart the city’s school communities, you tear apart the city.

WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE FORWARD TO THE SCHOOL BOARD? i DONT KNOW IF THE GREENSBORO MEMBERS SEE THIS.

I read it too - love the last line.

TRUTH!

I sent it off just now. But perhaps if they hear the last line over and over again from "the audience", it might sink in.

This is the culmination of what we have been trying to say for several years.

It truly has become a Day of Two Cities. Do we continue to make the tear bigger or do we start to repair?

Plan C is absurd. Plans B and D are the only ones that make an ounce of sense.

Which Map B? The original one or the one that replaced it? There are some significant differences in the two as there has been some slight of hand involved.

It appears that B* would ONCE AGAIN screw Blairwood and send us and surrounding neighborhoods MORE THAN 6 miles to Central. By sending that column to the Board of education does that mean that you are endorsing Map B*, Barbara Ann? I thought that you were advocating NEIGHBORHOOD schools...please tell me that I'm misunderstanding this!

No, Blairwhat I am not endorsing Map B* and that is not why I sent the article. Truth requested that someone send it. I have already written the BOE in Support of Map D. D for Dot motion - D to let the dust settle and give the programs a chance to work without the forced lottery; make them truly world class; and move forward.

We have told the BOE that we need an "airport" school and a school in the Jamestown area. We should be in Ragsdale, but you know that story.

Truthfully, no one can give an accurate prediction of the numbers for the three high school this year as students can choose the magnet strands. I know of many children who chose the IB program at Central, love it and are staying. Thus another reason for Map D.

I sent the article to them because the last line of this editorial is the essence of what many of us have been saying for the last few years....when you tear apart schools, you tear apart communities.

I think that sums it up. I think it's time to close up some tears. If the BOE goes forward against the majority of what people want, I fear the tear will just keep ripping more within our community.

John Faircloth spoke at the last BOE and at Thursday's forum which I could not attend. I heard he gave an excellent speech Thursday too. Bernita Simms also spoke about letting the programs work from what I heard. The mayor spoke about safe schools.

I think for now D would be the wisest choice.

btw Blairwhat, you make an excellent choice in Garth.

Jen or Bruce, any chance of posting the latest demographic data for SW High nad Middle?

thanks

Bruce or Jen,

Will there be a thread discussing this morning's editorial on neighborhood schools?

Michelle

C. Boy,

Southwest High:
1,308 students
56 percent White/44 percent minority
22 percent free-reduced price lunch

Southwest Middle:
1,005 students
52 percent white/48 percent minority
26 percent free-reduced price lunch

Enrollment data based on 10-day enrollment figures (the official count taken for the state)
FRL taken in June 2005. Updated numbers will be available next month.

In case you're wondering, here's the data for Andrews/Welborn and Central/Ferndale:

Andrews
1,079 students
21 percent white/79 percent minority
56 percent FRL

Welborn
714 students
19 percent white/81 percent minority
68 percent FRL

Central
1,347 students
37 percent white/63 percent minority
58 percent FRL

Ferndale
590 students
18 percent white/82 percent minority
74 percent FRL

Check out the entire district's data on FRL for 2005-06 here.

Check out the entire district's enrollment
here.

I tried to put this on the redistricting topic, but it says something like'you can't comment on this topic'-- not sure why,,, but concerning David Hoggard

I like David, and think that everyone has a right to public speech. Even Troll, and everyone else. From what I read David did not provide alcohol at the New Years Party, he was trying to make sure that kids did not have alcohol. If they snuck and drank, then he wanted to provide adult intervention. I am glad he did. I am a regular poster here, and I don't have a dog in the HP mess, but have always spoken out against the lottery plan and was glad that it was overturned, but this is an education forum and there are many aspects, attitudes and sides to each and every topic. I would like to hear some honest suggestions for solutions other than just slamming other posters. It makes me want to quit reading this blog, since I have to wade through the sluff to get to the interesting, informative posts. What a shame.

I agree. No more meaness. I'm guilty of it and will do my best to be nice. I've locked down my Nice-Lock button on my keyboard. It's right next to the Caps Lock. I suggest we all do it.

Now, back to education, or the lack of....Okay, Debora, you want to hear solutions. You see, the problem with that is there are 6 people that must agree on any so-called solution. Until that is changed, there will be no solutions. Until the make-up of the School Board is changed, this board will just be a "transportation" agency and not one that's about education.

The ONLY solution that will solve the dilemmas in this county are to move to a system where the money follows the student. Only then will schools be held accountable. If I leave the system, I should be able to take my money too.

debora,

Bruce shut down posts to the other thread because it got too nasty there. Hopefully, this thread will stay civil and not become a site for hate speech.

Michelle,

At least the editorial board is making progress with their latest post. When talking about segregated schools, they are now discussing it in terms of Dudley and Northwest, where the real problems are. Maybe someone is starting to wake up and address the real problem areas where diversity does not exist, if there is a problem. Still, their permise is that "neighborhood schools" is just a code word for "separate but equal". It's funny, but it seems that all parents seem to want neighborhood schools, so how is it wrong? Has anyone considered the possibility that we could put the hundreds of millions of dollars into improving the schools for all students, and they would actually benefit more than by busing them around the county? What a unique concept.

Jennifer,

can you post the Minority vs White numbers too?
SW,ANDREWS,HPC + Dudley, NW and Grimsley.

Thanks.

A question that merits an answer from the editorial board is what is an acceptable level of diversity in public schools? If diversity does, indeed, improve education of students, what does that mean; 50-50, 55-45, 60-40, etc.? Do we only achieve optimal benefits if a school is 50-50? Many have assailed Southwest as being too white middle-class, but Jennifer's numbers above say that it is 56-44, so why is the school board intent on diversifying Southwest? Would we only reach optimal value of diversity if 6% of white middle-class students are shipped to another school? Or, is Southwest now within a statistical tolerance of achieving diversity? Would someone wiser help me out here?

I am curious as to where the numbers that are being posted are coming from. According to our local school officials the numbers are not accurate.

I am aware that the student population is fluid and changes from time to time.

Can we get accurate numbers from the individual school records as of January 1, 2006?

Also, does anyone have any input on 9th grade academy's??

Frank,

See my post under the magnet fair strand. This might help. Some academies are in discussion of being dropped, i.e. SW, Education and Central, business academy.

About the numbers - GREAT QUESTION - two school board members have said similar statements. I think it depends on which day you ask central office and who is asking. I know for Andrews, reportedly Eric was using "state capacity" numbers at one SB meeting. However, Andrews has torn out classrooms to put labs, supposedly is having SLC because of the $847,000 grant in 2004, and we have heard teachers are teaching classes on carts. So where are the empty seats?

Stormy,

You are right about most parents wanting neighborhood schools. From what I have read and the many forums I have attended over the past several years, the majority of parents, black and white want neighborhood schools to be a priority. You could still accomplish that as a primary goal and have diversity as a secondary goal in many places.

To myself and many if some schools are struggling and need more resources, put the extra resources and experienced staff in those schools, smaller class ratios, etc. At the same time, we need adequate funding at all of our schools. Money should be spent in the classroom not in all the highly paid salaries of many GCS employees - just my humble opinion.

Parents said this in 1999. Parents are still saying it. By just shuffling and putting lower achieving students on a bus ride, it only hides them. But you know all this - same story - and many of us feel there are agendas as to why it's being done - same story.

According to the schedule at the beginning of the year, there are 4 teachers at Andrews that travel from room to room. One of those is a half day position. There was one other but the position was eliminated after a few weeks because the teacher was on medical leave I think and a suitable replacement could not be found. Those students were absorbed into other classes. There may not be extra rooms, but there are classes which are not at capacity.

Just to answer Barbara Ann's original post here (gosh, am I running behind today!), I actually can set things to post in the future. So I wrote this original post on Friday and set it to appear early Saturday. Believe me - I was sound asleep by 3:09 a.m.!!

And we're working on an announcement about tomorrow night's forum. We'll have something in the paper tomorrow morning and something on the Web site ASAP. However, I understand that some details of tomorrow's forum may be up in the air, which is why we haven't posted anything yet.

Regarding Andrews

In Fall of 04 the $847,000 grant for small learning communities was given to all three HP high schools. It was to be used for smaller classrooms AND monies were to be distributed evenly to all three high schools. (This incidently is the same magnet grant that Grimsley parents fought and didn't receive. Even though one of the paremeters of the grant app was "community input/buy-in" we were never asked. Another example of HP being treated differently than the rest of tne county.)

When I discussed several issues a few weeks ago with our school board rep for district 2 about remedial reading, smaller classrooms, etc. at Andrews, she told me these things were being done but it takes time, blah, blah, blah

As of two board meetings ago there was a discrepancy in Anita's figures what she was told by Central Office for Andrews and what Eric was telling her. Upon recent inquiry reportedly he was using "state capacity" figures. These numbers, however, may not include the changes because of labs and SLCs.

There have been several disprepancies in the numbers for other areas too. It depends on which set us is using and when you ask him, I suppose.

OK. I will do the others.

Northwest High:
2048 students
86 percent White/14 percent minority
6 percent free-reduced price lunch

Dudley High:
1327 students
1 percent White/99 percent minority
60 percent free-reduced price lunch

Smith High:
1453 students
7 percent White/93 percent minority
68.75 percent free-reduced price lunch

Southeast High:
1340 students
76 percent White/24 percent minority
18 percent free-reduced price lunch

Weaver Academy
200 students
79 percent White/21 percent minority
13.5 percent free-reduced price lunch

Grimsley High:
1661 students
58 percent White/42 percent minority
27 percent free-reduced price lunch

Ragsdale High:
1570 students
55 percent White/45 percent minority
36 percent free-reduced price lunch

Page High:
1477 students
46 percent White/54 percent minority
30 percent free-reduced price lunch

When I look at it. SW isnt too bad and NW,Dud,SE,Weaver and Smith need work!

Truth,

Thanks, but I would say that both Grimsley and Page need work too!

With Dudley at 60% FRL, Page at 30% FRL and Grimsley at a LOW of 27% FRL, I would think a "swap" plan for those 3 schools is in order. After all, they're much, much closer together than Central, Andrews, and SWHS.

Yes, definitely a SWAP plan is needed for

Dudley
Page
Grimsley

Truth,

This is very revealing. It says that Southwest, Page, Grimsley, and Ragsdale are pretty much balanced diversity schools, at least within a statistical tolerance. So, what's what all the rancor been about Southwest for the past two years?

You are right; Smith, Northwest, Dudley, and Southeast need some attention, if balance and diversity are truly needed. However, it is likely that nothing will be done to make changes in these schools. Dave Hoggard even made this statement on his blog "Greensboro is not immune from such segregation - just look at Northwest High (over 90% white) and Dudley (over 90% black). But no one around here is making a big issue of such segregation, so it will likely stand as is."

I guess that means that no one in Greensboro is concerned about segregated schools, but rather prefer neighborhood schools, if Dave Hoggard has the pulse of the city right.

If you look at Weaver you will also see a reflection of our top Magnets.
Lots of lilly-white bottoms in them.

Isn't that interesting? Shouldn't the SB be asking why are not getting in more minorities? I bet the early colleges are the same. Will look into them.
Good job we have Scales.

Oh, I am such a bad person because I live in North High Point.

Stormy,

How much of Southwest's balance is due to the Choice Plan being in effect for 2 years? What will happen to the diversity numbers if we go back to the original district lines?
Sandy

Sandy,

According to Truth,

Southwest Middle has:
1,005 students
52 percent white/48 percent minority
26 percent free-reduced price lunch

Considering Southwest Middle would feed SWHS in its entirety without the Choice Plan in effect we would expect SWHS to mimic the numbers shown for SWMS; however, there is a caveat to this logic.

In the numbers stated above for SWMS are many, many students who opted out of Ferndale. The demographics of those opt-out students are typically White, non-FRL (per Grier) so the numbers for SWMS shown above are actually skewed to to show a lesser FRL % and a lesser NonWhite % than if Ferndale had not provided opt-out students to SWMS.

Thus, one would expect that the numbers for SWHS, sans High Point Choice plan, would be greater than what currently exists for SWMS.

Sandy,

That's a good question, but I have no answer. I have no way of knowing how many minority students are represented at Southwest now because of the lottery, do you? I've never seen any statistics of how many students were moved into Southwest as a result of the plan, because I don't think that this administration has ever shared that information with anyone. I do know that there were signficiant numbers of minority students living in the Southwest attendance zone two years ago, and the number was on the rise. So, until the administration shares some information with us, we'll never know what impact the lottery had on Southwest. Regardless of that, we do know now that Southwest is a racially balanced and diverse school, so there is no need for the lottery anymore, and the school board and administration can leave Southwest alone and concentrate on the schools were there is a legit issue about lack of diversity, such as Dudley, Smith, Northwest and Southeast.

Sandy, I know that you are a concerned supporter of Andrews, and that's admirable, but my queston for you is what positive effects did the lottery have on Andrews in the two years it was in effect? I'm not aware that more than a few, if any, Southwest area students were ever assigned to Andrews. It is my understanding that the vast majority of those students were assigned to Central. So, how did the lottery actually help or improve Andrews?

Quest/Stormy,

Excellent points. I was going to say I have no idea and since everything we get from Eric H is so obviously wrong I don’t know if we will ever know. Just the fact that he sent out to several people data showing FRL and minority percentages, on a below 800 school enrollment for SW High, I worry if he is giving any correct numbers to the SB.
They really have to scrutinize his numbers.

Sandy, Stormy, et al,

Stormy has a good point. How did the IT Plan help Andrews? Most opted out to Central.

I do know that many of the students that chose the IP Program at Central are staying and not going back to Southwest. They like the IB Program.

For this and other reasons, it would be best to let the dust settle and see what the numbers actually are when students can make a real choice without force. This way they can take the data from 06-07 year.

Truth you are really on to something. We definitely need some diversity in the Weaver magnet program. I think there needs to be some quotas here and affirmative action programs for some of these.

Stormy is also current on SW. It is currently a diverse school and since SWM feeds in to SW it will steadily remain diverse.

Truth,

Next time ask Eric if he is using the "state capacity" recommended numbers, or the actual numbers.

And is what year of numbers is he using.

Truth,

Just an FYI: the free/reduced lunch data was from June 2005, so the enrollment numbers included with it are not up to date. Dudley, for example, has nearly 1,700 students this year, not 1,300.

The enrollment numbers I'm looking at are from the 10-day enrollment data, which the district sends to the state. The second link that I included in an earlier comment has the official 2005-06 enrollment data.

As Frank said, those numbers won't be exact because students do move in and out of schools all year. But that is the official number sent to the state and gives a better picture of what enrollment this year really looks like.

Also, someone had asked about what the minority population would look like at Southwest without the choice plan. Here is a look at a few years of data showing the school's growth trends before the plan:

SWH
2001-02: 12% FRL and 64% white/36% minority
2002-03: 13% FRL and 67% white/33% minority
2003-04: 15% FRL and 65% white/35% minority

SWM
2001-02: 19% FRL and 64% white/36% minority
2002-03: 19% FRL and 63% white/37% minority
2003-04: 20% FRL and 62% white/38% minority

In that same time the district as a whole went from 41% FRL and 49% white/51% minority to 44% FRL and 46% white/54% minority

Thanks Jennifer. Now can we get the numbers for those same years for Andrews, Central, Ragsdale, Grimsley, Northwest, Dudley, Smith, Southeast and Page. This would give good indicators of what was happening system wide in termsof diversity and FRL over the years as well as High Point data.
Thanks!

Ok. Took another look at the data and I had really put in the wrong Student enrollment totals for 2006.

I do not however think it changes anything. Southeast, Weaver, Northwest and Dudley have not enough diversity.
Something needs to be done. Or?
Take a look and give your opinion!!

Northwest High:
2006-2279 students/ 86% White/14% minority
2005 FRL-6%

Dudley High:
2006/1687 students/ 1% White/99% minority
2005 FRL-60 %

Smith High:
2006-1601 students/ 7% White/93% minority
2005 FRL-69%

Southeast High:
1340 students/ 76% White/24% minority
2005 FRL-18%

Weaver Academy
2006-258 students/79% White/21%minority
2005 FRL-13.5%

Grimsley High:
2006-1684 students/58% White/42% minority
2005 FRL-27%

Ragsdale High:
2006-1477 students/55%White/45% minority
2005 FRL-30%

Page High:
2006-1709 students 46% White/54% minority
2005 FRL-36%

Truth,

You're right, the enrollment data does not change anything about diversity.

But people use information they get from this site, and I just wanted to make sure they had the official enrollment data.

Itsallbull,
I'm working on compiling that data you requested. I just haven't had time to sit down and pull it from the various reports.