News-Record.com

Bruce,
the Oak Ridge parents are wondering why their kids are being moved to Colfax when NW Elem. would be closer. Also they are inside Oak Ridge. I know that doesn't matter, since we are 'one' county. They also got some of Summerfield students last year, that was part of the 1999 plan. Those parents didn't want to leave Summerfield and that along with growth has overcrowded Oak Ridge.

The true problem is the location of NW Elem. They didn't need a school there! Darlene told the board that, Eric has said the Cardinal has 'aged out'-- not much new growth in that area. Colfax will be only about half full without taking SW elementary students and Oak Ridge students.

No planning ahead-no respect for communities...again

Thanks for this, Debora. This is the type of local-level issues that will emerge during this process.

I also heard from a Jefferson Elementary parent this morning. She's concerned that some students from their school will be redistricted into the expanded Guilford Elementary School, which will replace Guilford Primary.

I would encourage anyone with any redistricting concerns - either general or specific - to attend the forums this week.

The good folks of Summerfield can rest easy now that Terrina Picerell is on the case. She is so loved in that fair town.

bruce, My 3 kids all attend northeast schools and we are concerned with the way the lines are being drawn. We are already a socio- economically deprived area with an ever increasing number of low income students entering our district. Accordingly, the proposed new lines will only make our situation worse!!! It is extremely unfair to move more low income students from Eastern Guilford to Northeast and then take away a large portion of our higher income kids to go to the new Northern schools. We went through this with the last redistricting change and do not feel that we should have to do it again. I also think that the school board should have given the public much more time to prepare for a forum than the day of the meeting. I am sure there are other parents who share my concerns.Please help us fight this. thanks,ann

Friends and Neighbors,

Thank you for speaking up for our children and for our families at Page High School. I had to work last night and couldn't be there, but I want you to know that I appreciate all that you have done and all that you continue to do. Your tireless efforts to preserve our sense of community and to make partnering with our schools feasible rather than logistically impossible is community activism at its best.

Ditto that NC Transplant!

Thank you to all the many, many new parents who are getting on board.

Subject: No Child Left Behind - football version

1. All teams must make the state playoffs, and all will win the championship. If a team does not win the championship, they will be on probation until they are the champions, and coaches will be held accountable.

2. All kids will be expected to have the same football skills at the same time and in the same conditions. No exceptions will be made for interest in football, a desire to perform athletically, or genetic abilities or disabilities. ALL KIDS WILL PLAY FOOTBALL AT A PROFICIENT LEVEL.

3. Talented players will be asked to work out on their own without instruction. This is because the coaches will be using all their instructional time with the athletes who aren't interested in football, have limited athletic ability or whose parents don't like football.

4. Games will be played year round, but statistics will only be kept in 4th, 8th and 11th games.

5. This will create a New Age of sports where every school is expected to have the same level of talent and all teams will reach the same minimal goals. If no child gets ahead, then no child will be left behind.

(author unknown)

Paris,...and your point would be?????

Thanks to all that showed up last night. It was great to hear the same clear thread of neighborhood schools ring freely and clearly from every speaker. Almost 10 years ago the same problems faced the county, the same uproar and the Board to appease the masses adopted a guideline of “neighborhood” schools.

Socioeconomic busing does not lead to neighborhood schools, it leads away from them. It takes children from their peer group and takes incentive away from the learning environment and alienates parental involvement in the schools. Recent board activity has done more to harm our schools in alienating the community, reducing parental support and activity (sometimes I wonder if this isn’t what TG wants so he can hide his failure to perform and fix our schools) in local schools. I grew up in a poor neighborhood and never knew it. Looking back, all the kids in our trailer park were happy, we learned, we grew up with opportunity in a poor border city near Tijauana, Mexico where we got our hair cuts and our groceries and where Dad would take anything he could get to the orphanages. (actually, I thought we were quite well off by comparison).

I am glad we had teachers that cared and instead of busing me to where kids had more than I did, I grew up thinking I was “normal”. My local High School I knew was much poorer that the one down the road. That being said most of us expected to and did go on to college and have done well in life. I remember my Dad being able to attend some of my wrestling matches in High School and watching me get slaughtered. Most of all I remember walking to school, about a mile, being with my friends from the neighborhood and growing up in a great nation.

Is it too much to ask that we provide all children safe, quality neighborhood schools with good teachers and great opportunities? Our superintendent costs us about a quarter million a year (1 million every 4 years), is it unreasonable to expect our poorest kids have a good education without being bused off, out of their neighborhoods, away from their friends and community? What kind of signals are we sending? We have a right to expect good solutions, not sleight of hand.

It is clear that community based schools require new schools and refurbishing older ones. Maybe now is the time for the Board to abandon economic diversity as a goal, leave neighborhoods alone (social experimentation appears to be failing miserably) regain public trust and support and let’s try for 400 million in bonds. 200 million is desperately needed for refurbishing and neglected maintenance, and 200 million for new schools, including middle and High Schools for Jamestown, North High Point and Colfax. Of the 200 million for new schools 50 million will be needed to cover the inflated prices of existing planned projects, placing Jamestown middle back on the original calendar.

Our schools have been so under funded for so long it will hurt a bit to catch up in capital facilities. By showing proper management of resources and regaining public trust and support I believe we can fix this mess.

What I have heard over and over is if the maps are not legible, if the possible effects of the maps are not given, and we don't know the "whys" of each map, then the School Board is not communicating with us.

Many who attended last night said they still could not read those maps.

The first step to restoring the trust is clear communication.

Garth,

I am glad that you got a good education in Texas. It is a great tribute to your community and family.

I wonder how your school compares with some of our schools in the following areas:

(a) Single parent families.
(b) Instability of faculty and principals.
(c) No child left behind penalties.
(d) Desire of faculty to teach and live in a diverse environment.

Community schools will not work for some unless we are willing to throw vast amount of resources into the schools. At the High School level schools that a majority of minorities are in free fall. Many students never graduate, and those that do face real problems in college. Do you know what percent of black males high school graduates that attend traditionally black schools graduate in 4 years? The answer is 8 percent. We must do better.

Joe,

You make some interesting points.

What is the percentage of graduation among black males who attend diverse schools?

There are many factors to consider.

Considering ALL students, why do we have the EOG's and the Gateways, if we are continuing to just pass kids who can't read, do basic math or write a basic letter or resume?

What favorare we doing kids to just social pass them and say they "graduated" but can't get a job when they graduate or need remedial classes to start GTCC?

Reducing suspension rates and the drop out rate may look good for statistical purposes, but what quality product (an educated young adult) are we turning out? Not just in Guilford County but in all or our public schools?

Private schools are spending thousands less per child and producing a better product.

We may be leaving "No Child Behind", but just warehousing everyone and moving them out. But where are we moving them to? A job at a fast food restaurant for life.

Barbara Ann,
Unfortunately we are moving them to the unemployment line and to jails. We must figure out how to educate/train these kids. I know that you agree with me, but what do we do? I see it at my son's school, and it is not a black only problem. We have some kids that come to school late 3 out of 5 days, don't do their work, could care less what you say or do to them.. they are waiting until they are 16 and they are out of there! You can't make people care, not the student not the parents. The days of making a living on the farm or in the mill, are gone forever! Mechanics make great money, but they use computers, have extensive training, its not the shade tree mechanic mentality anymore. The true problem starts in the family home and ends there also. Schools can not create social/ecomonic/diversity change by itself-the nation as a whole must change. The faith community, the political community etc, etc!--okay off my soap box for now!

Jennifer,

Great article in today's paper. I was at the forum last night too. Every single speaker asked the board to send their children to schools closest to their homes.

I did not hear one single person say they wanted their child bused across town.

What was interesting is that many people stated that they would be willing to support the next school bond if they knew their children would be assigned to their closest school.

I hope the board really listened and more importantly, I hope they will do the right thing.

Joe:
All good questions and as I am getting up there in years, I can’t provide stats, just memories. I do know that Dad was single, raising 2 boys. I do know that with few exceptions most of my friends came from single parent homes. By the way, I grew up in Southern San Diego County in California. Tijuana, Mexico is still and impoverished border town.

As far as stability, San Diego was primarily a Naval town and transience was job 1 so to speak. Community was as diverse as a military town gets. We supported our country and many of us could not wait to enlist and go to ‘Nam.

Yes Joe, we must do better and I believe we can do better. I do not believe throwing money and buses at the problem will make it better. Discipline, opportunity and self respect grow strong moral values and strong citizens. I do not see our schools providing much of these.

Garth

Joe:
I did not mean to imply I grew up in Tijuana, I grew up next door on the other side of the border in a then small town, El Cajon.

Joe: I found memory lane interesting. They have added new High Schools to my old city, but take a look at some things still going on there, on the other side of the country. Interesting School has shrunk to only 2300 students, less than 50% white, 87% graduation rate etc. Much more interesting, they publish everything! Hard to hide imperfections with this much honesty. Parental involvement looks great.

http://ecvhs.guhsd.net/index.php#

Under Administration - School Accountability:

http://www.guhsd.net/documents/FY04_SARC_03.pdf

Why do these school systems always have to rely on bonds for expansion, which can be expensive as a result of interest expense(20-30 years), and instead set aside monies each year for future projects.

Typically, most corporations don't pay out all of their retained earnings in dividends and retain some for future expansion, acquisitions, & other things. I realize we're talking about nonprofits and possibly my reference to for profits might not be apples to apples, but it seems to me there needs to be better planning.

This practice isn't a North Carolina issue either. Seems like a poor practice to me and can get quite expensive. I was surprised that some of the monies approved in the last issue hasn't all been spent and as a result some of the projects designated by the issuance have escalated enormously in price.

Who's minding the store? Maybe we need to privatize some of these systems to make them operate more efficiently.

I enjoy finding out about what works in other districts. Over the years, our BOE has not shown much interest in going to other districts and finding what works form them and see if it can be used in Guilford County. I have enjoyed talking with Dr. Grier about his experiences in other districts. We can learn from other districts. If we found a good idea, we don't have to implement county wide. We could evaluate at 2 or 3 schools. Copying other people's ideas is not cheating. We all do it. I don't believe the children in Wake County were born with higher achievement potential than our children. We do something to create an environment that is not optimum for maximum learning.

Joe,

Very interesting that you've enjoyed talking to Grier about his experiences in other districts. I'm sure he has many stories from many districts.

All of the other districts prior to Guilford have either fired him outright or minimally, refused to extend his contract beyond the initial contract.

So - what did ALL of these other boards of education know that our board can't figure out?

Joe,

We all need to be concerned about the failing schools because these students will be and are members of our society.

However, does busing this student to a successful school make the individual student successful?

As I remember one child stating,
"I don't know of anyone who made an A because they were sitting beside of me"

My son was always put between the trouble makers or/and struggling students, not always the same.

Did it help them? No, they still failed
Did it help him" No, it gave him stomach aches
because the teacher expected an
eight year old to help the
students around him do their
work too !!

Does this sound famialiar to anyone?

I participated in a discussion group with Dr. Grier within a few weeks of his arrival. He addressed the issue of his leaving the system in California. If I remember correctly, he was told by a Board Member or it may have been more than one to hire a unqualified relative. He refused to do so, which would have been an illegal act. He took the severance package and moved to TN. Changing Supts. takes a lot of time and will slow us down. Have you forgotten Jerry Weast? He went on to bigger and better things and he was not near the man as Dr. Grier. Dr. Grier is not perfect but he is better than anything else in sight.

We use to pasture mules and fine bred cutting horses in the same pasture and it didn't make cutting horses out of the mules or mules out of the cutting horses. No matter how you saddled them or pastured them they were what they were.

mrproduce,

I love your analogy. I just might have to use it myself sometime.

Frank,

Please email me. I have a friend who needs to talk to you. bamc628@aol.com

VERY IMPORTANT

THANK YOU,

Barbara Ann

Debora,

I do totally agree with you. But there is only so much great teachers and parent volunteers can do. It must begin at home and in a child's community. Kids must want to learn. "You can bring a horse to water but you can't make him drink." This goes for all kids. The desire to learn must be there.

Look at today's media and the messages on TV and movies, the breakdown of the traditional family. Whose watching the kids when the are watching all this garbage on TV or just hanging out?

I do think that the continually disruptive kids need to be out of the classroom so others can learn. I feel very strongly that all of our schools should be SAFE. (Example: last night's news and the boy from Northeast HS -think that was the school - being assaulted by several students - a student saved him - no teacher was nearby). The GCS handbook needs to be enforced for every student equally. I really like the Community Service Program so kids aren't just suspended and allowed to hang out. I like the idea of having mentors in our schools and programs like Big Brothers/Big Sisters and Reading buddies.

But it gets down to is the purpose of public schools to be a "social worker" or and "educator".

Students who do want to learn should be allowed to have an education in a safe "public" school. Otherwise, no one wins. We have nobody learning. We are driving students who do want to learn to private schools. Their parents and their volunteer hours are leaving with them.

I feel the Middle College programs are part of the answer and they are working. But what about the programs for our high achievers. These are our future scientists and Nobel Peace Prize winners in a global economy. What about addressing their needs to?

Barbara,
When you take continually disruptive kids out of the classroom, where do you put them?

Make it your guest. I will gladly share my analogies at any time with you folks there.
However be careful because I used it once and was accused of calling somebody's kid a mule. "Heck , I replied, if the "shoe" fits then I reckon they need to wear it, now don't they."

what does the school system do with these kids
who are disruptive, do they have a special
school to go to

Joe,

They have a SCALES program. Dr. Grier has started a Community Service Program I believe as a pilot program. We need more Alternative Schools. Schools with real programs of tough love and positive mentors; schools with rules and consequencs; but also much positive reinforcement. I know what they will say, "we don't have the resources." It's like this, Joe, if you leave disruptive, disrespective students in the classroom, NO ONE can learn. Instead of losing a few students who choose not to behave, others are cheated out of an education too. Everyone suffers. Good students start to leave public education.

If any students are allowed to hit, punch and kick teachers and principals and there are no consequences, it sends a very powerful message that others can do this to.

I have said this before and I will say it again....if we are not going to enforce the rules in our schools and the GCS Student Handbook across the board, why not just have a free-for-all? Why have a handbook at all. I have heard the word "non-conforming mentioned". Well I thought non-conforming always meant not conforming to the rules??? Rules should be fair and enforced fairly, but they should be enforced.

I have read in numerous sources that because of No Child Left Behind laws, schools across the country are under reporting violent incidents so the are not labeled a violent school. How does this help anyone? If real problems are there; real problems can be identified and a plan put in place. To just keep our heads in the sand, solves nothing. The problems are still there. We are just choosing to ignore them. It's kind of like people who "escape" with drugs. It might feel good for awhile, but nothing has changed when you snap out of it.

Joe, what about the other poster's question about the percentage of black mails who do not graduate from diverse schools? Do you have those numbers. I would be curious too to see if it makes a difference in graduation rates in all the subcategories that NCLB has established as to whether a school is "diverse" or "neighborhood".

I will add from teaching experience and this is only at the elementary school level. It is unbelievable how just one student with continual bevavior issues can wear down a full-time teacher. I have seen it.

Can you imagine when the hormones are raging and you have several students in a room who have "issues". It wears our teacher down and out the door.

At the elementary levels, teacher assistants are slim now so that extra pair of hands is not there to help with discipline issues. It takes away from teaching time in the classroom. It robs the entire class of teaching time.

Joe,

One more thing.

It is a "public" school, paid for with the public's tax dollars and buildings built with bonds that the public taxpayers vote for.

Shouldn't everyone whose families contribute taxes be entitled to a public education if they choose? Unfortunately, many have and are leaving. If this continues, I would support vouchers to make our schools competitive.

The problems aren't just in Guilford County. They exist in other locations in our public schools. It's "government" with tons of dollars spent, not a business for profit.

Barbara Ann,
I agree totally with you. There are many kids that need to be out of the classroom, and I would like to see them educatons somehow, but there are some that don't care, (as you said) and I did also in my post above. It starts and ends in the home, but not everyone has a good home life. We have students that live in homeless shelters, students that have druggies for parents, no role models etc. Thank goodness that is a small group, but they are there. We have many students that have parents that don't care.. about anything, much less their kids education. It is sad, as you well know. If we could bottle a solution we could all retire!

and Joe,

I disagree that community schools will only work if you throw vast amounts of resources into them. All of our schools should have the resources they need.

But if you caught the program last week "Stupid in America" on ABC, private schools are educating for much less and producing better results.

There was a private school on a shoestring budget(not sure if this country); they did not have extras or fancy computers, etc, they were producing top students.

It is in the teachers, the staff and the management of same. It takes supportive parents.

It's are hard for poorer parents to be involved if their children are bused across town and they have no transportation to get to meetings, sports, etc. Busing poor kids out of their comfort zones but additional strains and problems on their families.

Amen to that Deb!

For the kids in shelters, etc., it will take communities reaching out and businesses in our community. But I think the further you bus kids, the harder it becomes to solve the problems.

Joe, If Dr. Grier is anywhere near as good as you say he is, he's done a gargantuan job of hiding it. I mean , we're talking serious energy expenditure here. Probably enough to light a city, instead of tearing one apart, I would think.

Sorry, Joe. Meant to write "black males" and your statistics. It's been a super long day.

I would be very curious to see the breakdown of all the subcategories that NCLB requires and comparing graduation rates of childen in "diverse" schools vs "neighborhood" schools.

Thank you, Joe.

good beautiful afternoon, hate to change the subject, but i have some questions about forum transportation.

it's nice that gcs & the city of high point seem to have worked together to provide transportation for those who need it! i don't think that jamestown and north high point residents are being offered this transportation choice though. i'm not real sure that gso parents were offered similar transportation either. but that's okay.

continuing that train of thought, if the board decides to bus kids out of their current neighborhood schools and into the southwest district (and vice versa) during this year's redistricting process, is someone/agency prepared to continue providing transportation to these families to visit their new schools during open houses, extracurricular activities, drama/dance productions, atheletic events, practices, etc?

if so, what are the projected costs & how will this work? if not, does the board think a lack of parental/student involvement may potentially have a negative impact on these families, students, academic performance, schools etc.?