News-Record.com

Thanks for lettingus know about the suspensions at Sumner. 123 out of how many student? Yes, there seems to be a problem that should be addressed. I still think this could work for that area but disciple would have to be undercontrol. Can we find out if it was 123 different kids or the same kids getting suspended many times. At our school we call those"frequent flyers"-- I think those schools need to be better utilized-don't both have space available now?

I'm amazed Mendenhall didn't get people from a school someplace else in the county not affected by this proposed map change, go talk to their PTA, and tell their parents to come to the meeeting to argue against the Southern parents, just out of pure malice. Come on, you're slipping, Sue.

Sumner currently has 527 students. I don't know how many of these suspensions are the "frequent flyers" you talk about, but typically, a small number of kids make most of the trouble at any school.

Both schools have some space. Southern has about 40 empty seats, while Sumner has 120, according to information presented last night. Southern's capacity is 313, while Sumner's is 647.

Once again our Superintendent and Board use the excuse of "space issues" to cover-up their failures at a school.

Once again our Superintendent and Board try to incorporate the use of buses, to correct the problem.

Shame, shame, shame. Hey School Board, LEAVE THEM KIDS ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fix your broken schools with logic, NOT LOGISTICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF ALL OF YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where were the Mendenhall Marauders??????

Central MOM: Even though this plan doesn't effect my school, because it would somehow make me feel better. Let's shaft these people over!!!
Show of Hands!!!!

Central DAd: Even though I don't live in these people's district, hell, I don't even live in Guilford Co. anymore, you kiddin', you must do the right thing. It will be your legacy! Screw these people over.!!!!

Logic?
Why create hybrid school instead of enlarging schools slightly to accommodate growth? Are we trying to cover up another imminent failure under title 1? If Board keeps alienating voters by creating hair brained cover ups they will never get a bond to pass. If any Southern parents group wants access to Rhino full page leave message on this board with valid email. I may know of a foundation willing to help. Remember elections coming up.

Garth,

You could always spend that money to buy an ad with the News & Record. After all, we've got more readers, we cover the whole county and we also provide you this handy-dandy blog!

debora,

Dr. Beacoats presented data on suspensions at a BOE meeting on 12/19. Darlene Garrett asked if he had data on repeat suspensions ("frequent flyers"). His response was "No.".

He was requested to gather more data about repeat offenders along with information that might identify racially motivated suspensions, etc.

To the best of my knowledge, he has not reported back. He may be able to provide more insight into this issue.

Bruce - News and Record Add would be great if they offered citizens group 50% discount that HPE and Rhino offer. Also, N&R does modify adds they don't like. Maybe if you pass this on ...
You will be getting a lot of my campaign money this year.

Bruce:
While this blog is a great place for candidates to become known, when race begins maybe you could keep a running "race blog" and require candidates to post as themselves and mark it as a cndidates posting.

Garth,

I like the idea of doing an elections blog. I'll mention it to the higher-ups.

If nothing else, you (and any other potential school board candidates) certainly are welcome to post here. We appreciate having you here!

And I didn't know about the ad rates, but that's a good point. I certainly can't tell the advertising department how to conduct business, but I'm sorry to hear we're losing out of customers because we don't offer a discount. I'll bring that to the attention of the higher-ups.

How does one become so twisted that even though you've been elected to represent a certain district, it's parents and children, that you go to another school in front of their PTA and ask the parents to speak in favor of a map that has no implications for their school at all, but would screw the other school you represent????

How does this happen? OUTRAGEOUS!

Bruce:
Don't move election blog from here, just keep "sister" thread here on the issues bloggers bring up and candidates respond to. Verify candidates postings as authentic in some manner and also moderate so that a candidate doesn't get slammed improperly.

You could provide access to this thread in a main elections blog area, but you and Jennifer should control and moderate in this area.

Just my 2 pennies
Keep up good work
Garth

Well it ain't like the children are gonna be taken out of the neighborhood (distances in our part of the woods are measured by miles, & not city blocks)and shipped "5 schools away." Sumner Elementary is just over 1 mile from Southern Elementary. I've always wondered that for a rural setting what was the purpose of having two elementary schools so close together?

Why spend more money on expansion when you can transport the kids just down the road to a facility that is being underutilized.

Sounds to me like Terry and the gang are using good judgement in resolving a difficult issue that needs to be addressed now.

They already have space and do not really need to redistrict for a while here, yet they want to redistrict, why? Space isn't the issue, that's why. If they do grow over next 4 years, then look at enlarging one school. They can't even manage a traditional school, why would we expect success here? Now you have a school for k-1 2-5 k-5 6-8 6-12 k-12 9-12 and of course Terry's 9-5 for 2&1/2 renewed forever...

Well I beg to differ with you about the County being able to manage a traditional school. I had a kid attend Southern and the authorities did a great job of educating him. I recall one of my kids teacher telling me several years ago that it was just a matter of time that the school was gonna be at it's attendance limit.

It sounds like good fiscal policy to proceed with making use of an underutilized facility, already built and paid for, in order to address an overcrowding issue that's just down the road.

Sumner residents, according to our local commander of the militia, Billy Yow, are his people. Billy will make certain that all our little ones are safe and secure at Sumner. You can count on Billy. And that's why home building is going great guns in our neck of the woods. Billy has always been there for us.

Of course, when he urinated on the NAACP symbol that sort of embarrassed many of us, but that's just Billy, warts and all.

"address an over crowding issue that's just down the road" quote from Bubba

Get real!

How about the overcrowding issues that are here NOW?

What about the trailer schools?

How about bond referendums that will NEVER pass if they continually screw with North High Point and Jamestown.

That's a promise.

Bubba:
I'm glad they did well by you. As I here it they want to "fix" what little success they have had...

They may even want to build on it a bit, or maybe even use it as camo for another "little"
problem.

Remember Southwest used to be at the national "average" also, but they fixed that with the so called choice plan. Southern could be called the k1 2 5 plan.

Remember the bonds...

Remember the Titantic (the unsinkable sunk)

Remember the Alamo!

Remember the Bonds!

Just another easy battle in due time.

Scrap the maps!

Debora,

That is an excellent idea on better utilization of space. They could start having "alternative" schools at the elementary level for the frequent flyers.

One wing could be for "frequent flyers" only. Work on correcting the problems now before it gets worse in middle school.

Bubba,

Your comments seem to indicate that you aren't following the conversations on this strand. You say that your child got a good education at Southern, and that is what the parents there are saying; leave it alone. It's Sumner that is the problem. Are you aware that Sumner is a Title I school that is soon to face NCLB sanctions? Grier's efforts to change the mix at Sumner and mix in Southern students will likely prevent Title I sanctions from taking place since the student base would be totally changed. Even if the school stayed as Title I, any sanctions probably would be deferred for a couple more years.

So, it doesn't appear that the change being suggested by Grier is so much about lack of space availability, but rather more to do with academics and federal sanctions. The one thing that Grier and the BOE don't want is another school which would require opt-out for the students. You can savely bet that this is just another attempt to pre-empt sanctions by Terry Grier. It has nothing to do with space or students' educations. No, this is not another example of Terry Grier and his gang using good judgment. It's another example of his devious method of cover-up of district performance failures.

By the way, you don't sound like a Billy Yow proponent to me at all. If you were, you wouldn't be admitting embarassment by his actions. His supporters back and support him, and they aren't embarassed by him. I think that you are stretching the truth about being a Yow-Backer.

Most suspensions fall in one of three categories.

(1) Mouthing Off
(2) Fighting
(3) Class Disruption by not staying in their seat.

It is true that students that do not know how to act may learn from being with students who act appropiately for their age.

Sumner kids are k-5. They should cause very little trouble. I do not believe that combining Southern kids with Sumner would cause any significant harm. If Dr. Grier wants to do it, let him do it. If it does not work, we can always change back. It should be noted that Laughlin and Summerfield works OK. It might work at other locations.

Joe,

With all due respect, I don't believe that you understand the stress involved in moving your child from one school to another - especially when there is no good reason to do so. Then, you go on to say, "If it does not work, we can always change back."

We're talking about children here. They and their parents have feelings and should be respected by the BOE and administration.

They are not pawns to be moved around a chessboard and if the move doesn't work, just move them back.

This lack of respect by BOE and the administration leads to mistrust and anger by the parents - and rightfully so.

What about the administration listening to the wishes of the parents for a change??

Joe,

What evidence do you have that mixing disruptive children with other children will improve their behaviors? My observation is that it will only serve to create distruptions for the other children who are trying to learn. I suspect that the reasons why these children are "acting up" has deep roots, and other children modeling good behavior is not likely to "fix" the problem of poor behavior.

I know that board members such as Marty Sykes likes to say that kids are resilient and can handle anything, but I think they mean that in other people's kids. You don't see her volunteering her kid or those of her constituents to serve as behavior models in other schools. It's easy to offer solutions such as this when you or yours aren't the one that has to deliver the goods.

If you are interesting in seeing a Middle or High School named after Edward R. Murror, please sign the petition at:

www.PetitionOnline.com/Joe60Joe/

Joe60Joe is case senstive.

Your interest will be greatly appreciated. It is a great name and we are long overdue in honoring this man in Guilford County.

Thanks,

This is what happens when we deplete our teaching staff of teacher assistants. The burden to teach is then placed on our students. We are asking our littlest students to now act as "role models", mentors, teachers, psychologists, etc. This is not only a lot to ask of our elementary kids but it is unfair. For too long I subjected my child to the "you get to sit by the disruptive child" philosophy that was placed on him by his teacher. This is distracting and actually puts a lot of stress on the "good" behaving child as they feel responsible for making sure their neighboring peers are behaving.

It saddens me to know that Guilford County Schools addresses discipline problems by moving the students to a new school.

I'm even more sad that the Guilford County system caters to the disrupters and "frequent flyers".

What a sad day indeed when our "good" behaving children, who go to school full of enthusiasm for learning, find that their day has been arranged so they they will act as day-care providers and any day's lessons are geared towards the low-achievers.

When did Guilford county make the policy to stifle the high achievers? Is that a part of the NCLB act?

I saw on the news this morning about following a principal for the day program. The Guilford Education Alliance newsletter said that this program will be expanded next year. Do you think video cameras will be allowed so we can video all the fighting, disruptions, cussing and teachers who are getting knocked on the ground?

The teachers could study the tapes to learn some self-defense moves.

Bluebird,

My little birdie friend told me that the head of the Guilford Education Alliance lives in Jamestown. The GEA seeks lots of donations for the schools.

Now we possibly know why Ragsdale is not in the High Point redistricting mix. Follow the money trail. Follow the politics.

The "good" behavior children cannot learn in a disruptive setting. It only takes one extremely disruptive child to ruin it for the entire class. It drains the teacher.

Do you know how much time it takes out of a day when a child wants to wonder off, fight or knock over a bookcase and it takes the principal, a specialist teacher and a teacher's assistant to calm one 2nd grader? Then you have to take time to call the parent of the bleeding child and fill out paper work. I'm talking about the "frequent flyers" when nothing is done.

Multiply that by 5 or 10 and see what happens. No one learns. Pile on the busy work, more homework for parents to supervise, less quality family time. Consider the lack of planning time teachers now have, the endless reports, testing, evaluations and workshops that take away from teaching hours.

Bad behavior by one has a domino effect on everyone.

Joe, in general, you are correct: elementary school students don't have the same types of discipline issues as older kids.

However, that doesn't mean there aren't serious concerns at Sumner. Some parents brought in police reports showing that several Sumner kids have assaulted teachers this year. And even fighting is serious: How many of us, children or adults, want to be in an environment where we feel physically threatened on a daily basis?

As far as moving children goes, I think kids are more resilient about moving than we sometimes give them credit for. However, there is one important caveat to that: their new school must be a safe, nurturing environment.

For example, you don't hear much (if any) complaining about people being moved to the new Northwest Elementary or Northern Middle. Why? Because the perception is that these schools will provide a quality education with a safe environment.

Adding on to that, I don't think the Southern parents would necessarily be opposed to this if they felt Sumner provided the same level of education and safety as their current school.

That's where the comparison with Laughlin and Summerfield doesn't really work. Both of Laughlin and Summerfield are high-performing and parents feel that both schools are safe.

Top performing students will try very hard to keep their standing in the new environment. Average or below average kids will sometimes appreciate a "new start" and raise their performance. If the top students hold their own and their is improvement in the lower performing students then you have overall class improvment.
There are exceptions to this, but generally change is good for students. They will face a changing world when they get out of school. It does not hurt them to have a little change in school. Look at the schools run by the Military thru out the world. Students move all the time but their overall performance far exceeds what we see in Guilford County. If you are down and you will not change you will be down forever.

Bruce,

Excellent points. For a few parents in the northwest area who maybe had to move to Colfax or Jefferson Pilot this is like saying "would you like apples or grapes today" - two wonderful schools. It is an entirely different story when you are talking about schools where safety and constant disruption are every day issues. No responsible parent want to put their child in harms way.

I have subbed in two elementary schools where there were constant disruptions and a few kids out of control. I gave both schools a few tries. I thought I could make a positive difference. I just couldn't handle it emotionally. You feel so helpless because you can do NOTHING for the kids who want to learn in this type of environment. I have no idea how a full-time teacher can take this constant abuse and stress
on a daily basis. And this is just elementary school. Imagine what happens if we allow this pattern of negative behavior to continue in middle and high school. How does a teacher feel when he or she is subjected to this disrespect on an ongoing basis and has not support?

Kids get only smarter, street-wise, as they get older. They know when they are controlling the teachers and "you can't suspend me" comes out. Even in elementary schools kids know "you can't take my recess away".

Just like any abuse. First it's verbal, then it's physical.

People need to be aware of the trend that is happening in our public schools. It is not pleasant picture to think about. The evidence is out there about the gangs and the fighting. Just because everything doesn't make "the news" doesn't mean the problems don't exist in our schools.

Bruce,
you hit the nail on the head. We love the Laughlin/Summerfield situation. Both are safe, loving enviroments that stress community and LEARNING! I believe that if the situation was similiar (it doesn't appear to be) then the change could be beneficial. With the difference in behavior issues they should be addressed. I am beginning to think that some of of elementary schools should have scales schools.

Joe,

I disagree on constant "change" or the "threat" of constant change. I think you will read that most child psychologists will stress that stability is a top priority in raising a healthy child.

Some military kids do "adjust" because they have no choice, same as children of executives that have to move a lot. Some do okay, many do adjust horrible and their anger shows in their behavioral issues. Having lived in a military area, Virginia Beach, for 23 years, I can see the effects constant moves have had on the children of some of our close friends. They are paying in child psychology bills now or in other emotional ways. My brother-in-law is a retired Marine general. His kids turned out fine; they didn't mind moving every couple years or sometimes 9 months. But it constantly kept them struggling academically due to the continual adjustments to new schools.

And to prove a point, as voted on at the last school board meeting. GCS are now giving parents of children who have a history of changing schools often, the chance to stay at the same school. GCS (your tax money) is proving the transportation for same. Studies have shown them that keeping a child in the same school helps him succeed; it gives him some stability in his life to grap onto. This was supposedly their motive for voting on this issue.

So in one instance they preach "stability" for some, but why do we have unnecessary redistricting of others?

p.s. Joe thus the term

"military brats"

to say "overall performance exceeds Guilford County Schools" vs military schools

that is not much of a bar given the past several years of test scores, etc.in GCS

Stormy,

You are misinformed with respect to any (North Carolina, etc.) impending sanctions against Sumner Elementary.

As a parent living in this area, I called and spoke with the principal, Ms Richmond, who told me there's no truth to it at all.

I like Billy Yow and have used his septic service, but the NAACP t shirt pissing issue was a little too much for me, as I'm certain that it also disgusted you, being that, like me, you're a cosmopolitan type of guy who would be respectful of one of the most aged African American civil rights organizations. Surely, you don't condone Billy's display of irreverence to that org. Please tell me you don't.

"If the top students hold their own"

There you said it Joe. That's my point exactly. We expect the top students to just "hang in there"..."hold on"...."wait"....."stifle"......"be patient"...."fend for yourself".

I'm tired of the FEND FOR YOURSELF system. Our top students are and will "hold their own" but at their own expense. What's wrong with giving them the tools to blossom even further. These will be our next Doctors, Scientists, Astonauts..etc..how pitiful that since they're at or above grade level, we just push them aside.

Where would the system be without these students? They are leaving in record numbers. Someone better wake up.

Joe, I would support the Edward R. Murrow name for a school, but until you can understand and speak out for the viewpoint of parents in the system, and the need for the schoolboard to HEAR them, I cannot help you. I know that you were/are an awesome parent with a Harvard graduate in the family, surely you must realize the impact parents can have on decision-making. The board of Ed. underestimates the knowledge of its families.

Bruce/Jennifer,

Will we be seeing a report on the transportation savings Moen presented at the school board retreat this weekend by using the neighborhood school concept?

High performing , low performing, race, poverty...are not the issue.

Behavior is the issue. No student can learn in an environment that is constantly interrupted and where the student does not feel safe.

I would say 127 suspensions in an elementary school should bring out the military police and
some good old fashioned discipline!!

That's absolutely ridiculous and I would not want
a child of mine to be sent from a school with no discipline problems with one with so many.

The lack of discipline issue needs to be addressed first!! Putting 10 well-behaved kids in a room with five misbehaving kids will not fix the problem.

Barbara Ann,

your post about "you can't take my recess away"
my child is in second grade, and is a good
behaved child, but her teacher takes away
their recess all the time, my child says
that other kids will not stop talking,
and the teacher makes a mark on the board
and if "everyone" does not behave, no recess,
what exactly did you mean by this, i have been
wondering if she can do this or not,

Dear hpvoice,
about 2 years ago the state passed a law that said all students would have 30 minutes of PE(recess) per day. The population is too obese and children are getting fatter (this is their reason)-- so no, in reality the teacher cannot take about recess. She/he needs to find a way to control their class without punishing the many for the sins of the few. Bruce, can you give an insight?

Police reports on students....students assaulting teachers...fights among students....and all this occurring at the elementary school level.

If all this is accurate as Bruce B. states, 'ol Bubba would think twice about wanting to send little Bubba to Sumner.

That ain't good.

I must confirm this with my source at GCS.

Debora is right: teachers are not supposed to take away recess or P.E. as a punishment, because recess/P.E. aren't supposed to be rewards. Rather, they are supposed to be a part of the typical school day, no different from reading, math, lunch, etc.

If this is happening at your child's school, I would suggest a polite conversation first with the teacher and, if that doesn't work, the principal. In all likelihood, the teacher simply doesn't know that this is against state policy.

Physiologically, young children need time to get up and move around. It's hard for them to sit still for a long period of time. Giving them a break during the day will help them focus when they get back to class.

On a related note, I recently read a report that many men think better standing or walking, while women are better able to focus while sitting for long periods of time.

That type of research will be invaluable in schools. A teacher may think a boy is "acting up" by getting up from his desk when, in fact, we're just wired differently.

I am always looking for ideas to support. The problem is if we change nothing we will not improve. Our system is about 47/48 in the state.
We use to be in the 25/30 range. My son went to six different schools in 13 years. Did it hurt him? I don't think so. I support better teacher training, etc. The fact is Summerfield/Laughlin is working great. Can we duplicate that? I don't know but we have to do something. Each school is the county has both good and bad teachers. Where your child goes to school it not near as important as the quality of teaching that child will get. I would much rather have a BOE that is trying to improve than one that was doing nothing. Why don't you join me and others and support 200 day terms for low performing schools?
Thanks,

thanks debra and bruce for info
i have talked to the teacher
and we have a wonderful principal
at our school, i will talk to her,
no more sitting on the sidewalk
at recess for my child!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dear HPvoice,
I am glad I could help! Sometimes we parents are better informed than the teachers. Joe,
I am not against 200 days for low performing schools, but what makes you think the kids will show up? If they have friends that are out playing during the summer, how do you get 'buy in' from the parents. I can see plenty of good from this idea, teachers earn more; less down time to forget lessons, less running in the streets, good for poorer families so they don't have to work about paying for child care and on and on. However, many parents think if you can't 'teach their kids' in 180 days they will not think you can do it in 200 days.The reason that we have many skeptics on this blog is that jerking and moving kids does not education them!
What many people think is that education should be the focus-- how to teach better, how to hirer better teachers, how to get parents involved, etc... not lets just combine schools or move students. If staff could talk about how this would help education for all (not just the bottom kids)and if they had a plan to do something with the 'frequent flyers' then we might be more willing to listen to new suggestions. I think about magnet schools, cooking, carpentry, medical science.. all great ideas, but if these students can't pass an EOG (where 30% correct is a level3) then we need to talk about reading and writing first.

Joe,

I cannot support the idea of 200 day terms for low-performing schools. It currently works at a few elementary schools, but they are magnet schools, and the parents choose to send their children to a school that has an extended year. That is completely different from instituting a longer school year at a middle or high school that is not a magnet school. It is not fair to subject students who are making good grades and passing EOG's/EOC's to a longer school year simply because they happen to reside in an attendance zone that has a low-performing school.

Many students have summer jobs and participate in camps and other enrichment activities during the summer months. Also, there are parents who count on older children to care for younger ones during the summer while the parents are working.

I would prefer that they make extra tutoring and summer school available for students who are struggling.

We need to spend money on wht will keep children in for the 180 days first.
This is just another Greidea.

HP Voice,

My statement "you can't take my recess away" was just an example to make a point - that kids, even at an early age, know how the system works, there are certain consequences teachers cannot use. Even before this was a "rule" in GCS, I for one would never think of taking away recess. Children need it. Oftentimes when it is a beautiful day and all our work is caught up, I would be know to do extra recess. When it's a nice day outside you can sometimes do part of a class outside, sit on the lawn and play "college campus". I always try to make any learning fun. Children are much more rested and ready to learn after some physical movement. It's hard to concentrate after sitting so long. The teachers need the break too.

There are PE teachers, however, who prefer when it is very hot outside and the kids will have 40 minutes of PE outside, that you not take them out for recess that day if the alloted recess time is close to PE. It is truly exhausting if it's extremely hot.

There was a particular teacher several years ago who used to make very young kids run laps for punishment on a very hot day. That was reported and it stopped.

When children have not finished their work because of disrupting the class, teachers do have them sit out for part of recess and finish. You see this often. Or if the are hitting on the playground, they get a 5 minute time out.

It is fun to say "Gotcha - you had 40 minutes of PE today" when a kid is trying to be "smart" and challenge you that you cannot do anything about his bad behavior.

Now I see many teachers used positive reinforcement by adding a little extra recess time for good behavior. That, to me, is a great approach.

Joe,

Many children can adjust to moving and changing schools. My husband changed schools often because his father was also in the Marines. He turned out fine. In a military family, moving and changing schools is second nature to this type of life. Some kids handle it; some don't. Also it has a lot to do with the family dynamics if the father has to be gone a lot, and not having extended family support nearby. There are many factors. But I would think everyone could agree that stability is a top priority in any child's life. A lot of military children still have that love at home and a support system within the miliary life on base.

I do think the focus should be on the quality of teaching and above all, a safe, nurturing learning environment.

Children who know how to behave can oftentimes be a positive influence on others because kids want to "fit in" and like to be rewarded. But there are circumstances like the "frequent flyers" as Debora put it, where there needs to be some kind of intervention.

Red headed sc,

I agree with you 100%. Everything you stated makes sense. This is what I thought when I heard of the idea. At magnet schools, it is a choice. If people are redistricted to a school zone that calls for more days, this may only cause more people to move away or leave the public school system.

This works against the goal of "one county movement". If you can't get certain kids to go to school during the year, how do you get them to go more days? You MUST have buy-in from the parents who are affected.

I would prefer to see a longer school day, more after school tutoring, remedial reading/math classes for those who need it, and smaller classroom ratios.

Children who do not need the extra help would look upon going to school more days as a "punishment", thus only further labeling a failing school to which they are part of.

Is it just me or has anybody else noticed that there is more talk about various educational methods on this blog than is discussed at the GCS School Board meetings for a full year?

Bubba,

As regards Sumner's academics, I am referring you to a post that Bruce made on another strand. If you have different information, inform Bruce:

Yeah, I believe Sumner is a Title I school and it didn't meet federal Adequate Yearly Progress measures last year. So it is in danger of having to offer student transfers if it doesn't meet AYP this year.

Posted by: bruce buchanan at January 31, 2006

As regards, Billy Yow's referenced behavior, I didn't bring it up, you did. So that one is about you, not me. You offered an opinion on it, I didn't. You are on your own on that one.

Barbara Ann,

I also think that if they were to implement it at HP Central or Andrews, a 200 day school year would make it impossible to attract students to the options they have available, such as the IB Program at Central and the Technology Program at Andrews. I know very few teenagers who would choose those programs if they had to go to school four extra weeks a year.

They need to put the time, effort and money into helping students who are not achieving at grade level.

Bruce:
I don't know how old you are, but in the 70's there was a trend for executives to have "standing desks". When I need to do serious planning and evaluation I take a walk.

Oh how I wish someone would realize that 30 min. for young boys is torture. In elemenatry school an hour a day broken into 1 30 minute and 2 fifteen minute recesses would do so much for classroom moral and imroved behavior amoung the kids.

We try to cram passing exams into our children instead of the joy of learning. We force teachers to prepare them to regurgitate for exams instead of learning to learn. Cursive is obsolete one teacher told my oldest son. He can't write in cursive and barely reads it.

His middle school health/science teacher taught that sound traveled faster than light. He got reprimanded for trying to correct her, came home all upset and went about to prove her wrong. I explained a different health science to my son. It is healthy not to teach science to those that already know everything.

I enjoyed your quip about boys learning. My wife has sworn that I am attention deficit. After trying to find out if that is true by talking to my clients that are MD's, they have all said that if I was, so was most of the male medical profession. Boys tend to be more active and "thinking on their feet" as is so aptly put, is a very real male process.

Thanks Bruce

Garth,

Great observations. I find in being around kids you have to go at their pace. Boys are definitely more physical and seem to move more.

I had a male student two years ago at one school who was so hyper, on meds for it; he couldn't help it. He would literally crawl across his desk. I found a positive reward for him he loved to do - scorekeeper on the board. I had set up spelling "olympics"; math "olympics". I promised him if he could not crawl across the desk, he could keep his scorekeeper job. He would then focus and try really hard; he did outstanding at his "job". It's kind of learning what makes a kid happy and go with it, their "carrot".

Funny thing you mentioned cursive. When I went to school, we had "penmanship" as a subject all through grammar school (as we called it back then) and received a grade. Kids now learn cursive in 3rd grade and never use it. My 16 year old still prints all her notes. She signs her name in cursive and that's about it.

Quest,

How true. They are too busy worrying about beating NCLB rules and getting around them. Guess they don't care what we think. We aren't gathering big donations from big business. We are just concerned parents.

If only time and money would be spend on actually educating children instead of busing them.....what promise this could hold. Could you imagine if all the time, energy and money that was spent on mixing HP and the IT Plan had actually been spent on education, teachers, and resources to help those who still continue to struggle. Could you imagine all the positive energy parents could have spent on helping rather than worrying about protecting their children's rights to sound, safe learning environment in a neighborhood school; PTAs working together and supporting each other.

Red Headed SC,

Agreed. Many teenagers have summer jobs and what about sports? The practices start in summer for tennis, etc. Some kids would be at a disadvantage for sports practice schedules.

How would you find teachers who want to work an extra four weeks? Some may want the additional money; but others prefer the long summer break. I have a dear friend who taught at Johnson Street Elementary for 20 years. She had even received a the Teacher of the Year award. When it went to a global magnet, she transferred to another school. She has three children, husband travels and did not want to teach in the summer. There's a teacher shortage now, so how in the heck would this help?

Have you heard yet by any chance what schools will be the "pilot programs" for these extra days? If it is Central or Andrews, it will only exacerbate the potential redistricting situation for the High Point high schools.

One question that keeps haunting me. Why is everything being so rushed?

I have two kids currently on the maps to be reidistricted to different schools. I have emailed the board members and attended meetings, but I cannot get a feel for what the board members are leaning towards. Is it map B*, or C, or A, or God forbid, they took their time and voted map D so they could think things out. Anyway, I am looking for any kind of lead on what they might be thinking. I have only heard back from one board member. Anita Sharpe was nice enough to respond to my email telling me to "hang in there". Has anyone out there heard anything?

sw mom

your guess is as good as ours

just get it over with

t is true that students that do not know how to act may learn from being with students who act appropiately for their age.(Stafford)

You can put mules in a field with race horses too, but that don't make em race horses. But then you can hitch a race horse to a plow and soon you will only have "just another horse" , a broken one at that.

So Joe, putting misbehaving kids in with good kids won't change a thing for the good. Behaviour begins at home, good and bad.

Lots of talk about what teachers today are expected to do. I found this in my archives and thought I would share it for all the teachers, ex teachers and those thinking of becoming teachers. It's funny, while at the same time so true. Thought I would throw in a litte chuckle for today. (mrp)

After being interviewed by the school administration, the eager teaching
prospect said:
"Let me see if I've got this right. You want me to go into that
room with all those kids, and fill their every waking moment with a love for learning,
and I'm supposed to instill a sense of pride in their ethnicity, modify their
disruptive behavior, observe them for signs of abuse and even censor their T-shirt
messages and dress habits. You want me to wage a war on drugs and sexually transmitted
diseases,check their backpacks for weapons of mass destruction, and raise their
self esteem. You want me to teach them patriotism, good citizenship, sportsmanship,
fair play, how to register to vote, how to balance a checkbook, and how to apply
for a job. I am to check their heads for lice, maintain a safe environment, recognize
signs of anti-social behavior, make sure all students pass the state exams, even
those who don't come to school regularly or complete any of their assignments. Plus,
I am to make sure that all of the students with handicaps get an equal education
regardless of the extent of their mental or physical handicap.I am to communicate
regularly with the parents by letter, telephone,newsletter and report card. All
of this I am to do with just a piece of chalk, a computer, a few books, a bulletin
board, a big smile AND on a starting salary that qualifies my family for food stamps!
You want me to do all of this and yet you expect me . . .

NOT TO PRAY ????" and you might add, not to have a nervous breakdown the first year. Not to find another job at the end of the first year even if it's manager training at McDonalds? You can add your own. I am sure that there are many different endings out there.

mrproduce,

Another good horse analogy - slightly different from your other - but equally as good! Another I will have to borrow sometime.

Regarding you last post,

Your first choice was the best...

"You want me to do all of this and yet you expect me not to pray?"

That really says it all.

Mr. Produce,

I agree with quest, the first ending is the best.

Thanks for sharing. I didn't chuckle, I actually shed a tear.

Maybe all of our woes are as simple as that.

My child's school begins each day with this prayer:

My God, I give you this day.
I offer you, now, all of the good that I shall do.
...And I promise to accept, for the love of You,
All of the difficutly that I shall meet.
Help me to conduct myself during this day
In a manner pleasing to You.
Amen.

Of course, NOT a Guilford County School.

I do not know which schools would pilot the 200-day school year, if any. When it was discussed at the BOE meeting, I believe they agreed to fund either one or two middle schools and high schools, preferably as a pair. In other words, they would like to see a middle and high school on adjoining campuses pilot the project, in order to reduce transportation costs.

As I understand it, the school must apply for this opportunity, and justify how they would use the extra 20 days to improve student achievement. The longer school year would only apply to sixth and ninth graders. However, if a school is accepted as a pilot for this project, ALL sixth and ninth graders would be required to participate.

If you are interested in reading more about how boys and young men learn, check out an article entitled "The Trouble with Boys" in the January 30, 2006 issue of Newsweek. It gives great insight regarding educational issues related to boys and young men.

Also, I hate the horse and mule analogies. They are insulting to all of us.

The 200-day schools are laughable. What in the hell can be done in 20 days that isn't being done in 180 days.

It's just another scam to get magnet money.

WAKE UP GUILFORD COUNTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sally,

Here's an Excel spreadsheet I put together of that information on transportation costs. These costs relate to the four proposed maps for redistricting High Point.

Jennifer,

Thanks!

What are you hearing from board members about the redistricting in High Point? Can you say which map they may be favoring?

Also, I hate the horse and mule analogies. They are insulting to all of us.Posted by: Red-headed Stepchild

To each their own, but sometimes good horse sense makes a whole lot more sense than some folks running or pretending to run the eductation system in this state or country.

And Red-head, you can't deny facts, like the anology or not.

My grandaddy taught me how to plow once upon a time many years ago using a mule. Now the old mule didn't want to gee or haw at the end of the row. I was frustrated. My graddaddy came up and said , "son here is what you need to do occassionaly, cause slapping those reins and yelling will get you nowhere." He walked up to the mule, hit the critter up side the head , right behind the ear, took hold of the reins and said Gee, the mule moved. His next comment went like this, " youngens and mules are a lot alike sometimes. If you want them to do something, you have to get their attention first.
Oh , just so none of you don't get you halter in a bind, my granddaddy didn't advocate hitting kids upside the head. He did advocate getting their attention in the most efficient manner possible.

Mr. P,

I personally like and appreciate your analogies. They do tell a tale. I sometimes think that people that complain about them are complaining because they are hitting too close to home.

Welcome back to the debate in Guilford County on the state of our schools.

Mr. P,

I loved the teacher interview story. The list of duties is actually much longer than that.

But the ending is sure great.

Quest,

I have not gotten a strong feeling yet from board members about which maps they favor. No one has said anything to me.

Although I wonder how seriously they'll consider Map D, which is the 1999 lines. In the three years I've covered the board a recurring concern has been the rapid growth in the Southwest area. If they go back to the 99 lines, I don't know how that will address the new students who will be moving to that area. They'd all go to Southwest, I guess. Will there be enough room? How many trailers can Southwest support? Would parents even tolerate more trailers on the site? (Those are my questions, but I suspect the board will want answers to them, too, if they don't already have those answers.)

I think with that map, the question they'll be asking themselves is can they afford to do nothing until a new school is built. There's no doubt that a new school in that area is on the board's mind, but it's a matter of when.

Even if a school construction bond were passed this year, it likely would be three to four years before a new school could be built to serve that area. For example, in the 2003 bond, Northern was a priority. The school is expected to open in 2007.

So, that's my take on it in a nutshell. For what it's worth.

Stormy,

Don't you mean that Mr. P knows how to tell a good "tail" :)

mule ... horse ... tail

(Sorry. I couldn't help it.)

Jennifer,

Well, I'll mule it over in my mind, but I think that your comment about Mr. P.'s tail is just a little horsey, if you know what I mean? ;-))

Would you two quit horsing around!

I am a member of the Health Advisory Council and I am aware that teachers are NOT allowed to withhold recess or physical activity for disciplinary or punitive reasons.

In response to the parent who had a question in this regard, I would suggest that you advise the teacher of this policy, (nicely is good!). If the teacher still withholds recess, contact the Principal.

I am learning that, at this time, not all teachers are aware of this policy. We are working on that.

I am the Health and Safety Chair for the Guilford County Council of PTAs and I am interested in how this policy is being implemented in all the schools in the county.

We (PTA, GCS, and the community) are currently working on a Wellness Policy for the district and part of that, of course, includes the physical fitness part.

Please contact me if you have a question or a problem with this at your school.

Terrina Picarello,
Health and Safety Chair, GCCPTAs
terrina@createyourbestlife.org

Jennifer,

There are many options. The board can do what it wants as they always do. They had been given a proposal in February 2004, which showed how all new growth could go to Central or Andrews if seats were there; or to other schools in the county were there are seats.

MANY other areas do this when a particular school is full. (of course other areas don't wait 17 YEARS TO BUILD A SCHOOL) The builders also pay impact fees or dedicate land for schools or parks or they they simply don't get to build.

There are several ways to do this - creating temporary satellite zones until a new school is built and grandfathering in existing neighborhoods that may be contiguous. Also they were given maps and ways to annex and accomplish this.

It is doubtful if there are many seats at Andrews because of the science labs and the smaller classroom ratios because of SLC established by the grant the three high schools received in fall of 2004. Anita still had very different numbers than Eric. Many of his numbers have been questioned and they seem to keep changing on the various maps.

We have heard from reliable sources, this is NOT about space. It is about spreading out the trouble in the High Point schools. Beside mixing for the sake of "the numbers" for higher and lower achieving students, we have learned that the meaning of "diversity" means something totally different to a few select people in High Point. Once again it is only trying to hide the real problems.

They are fooling no one.

What is the big "rush" on this redistricting when no new schools are on the drawing board for High Point? The plans aren't just to move kids to Central and Andrews (as you are saying because of overcrowding at SW) because there are "swapping plans" on some of the maps.

One map that came out in August, I believe, put even MORE students at SWH which proves this is not about overcrowded SWH. Additionally, SWH is current undergoing renovations for additional seats.

Just as NWH students have gone to school in trailers and an overcrowded school for years, students would rather go to school in a trailer or even a tent, as long as it was safe, they are being educated and it is NOT one of the four lowest performing schools in the state. No one should be forced to a low performing school. It should be fixed first to at least be considered "average".

It is not the facility that matters. It's what goes on inside the facility.

The only fair solution is Map D until new schools are built and redistricting needs to be done. Many children who chose the IB program in the "Choice" Plan are staying. Central got their "diversity" they wanted all along. Why is High Point continually treated different than the rest of the county?

Jennifer,
perhaps you can explain to us how maps A, B or C address that the growth issue then?
Answer is of course that non of them do.
The truth is that with the expansion at SW map D is going to be ok for several years.

If they dont choose Map D then there will be no Bond money for the HS in Colfax. The board need to be aware of that and hopefully they already got that message. People are sick of being bullied.

TRUTH IS TELLING THE TRUTH.

IF MAP D IS NOT CHOSEN, MAP A, B OR C ONLY ACCOMPLISHES A SWAP. A BANDAID SOLUTION.

WHAT WILL THE BOARD DO WHEN THERE IS A REAL GROWTH PROBLEM AT SOUTHWEST AND COLFAX, SPEND MONEY ON MORE TRAILERS? THAT WILL BE THEIR ONLY CHOICE BECAUSE THEY WILL NEVER EVER SEE ANOTHER BOND PASS IF THEY DO THIS BLATENT SWAP PLAN.

CHOICE PLAN = SWAP PLAN
MAP A, B, C = SWAP PLAN

MAP D = TAKE TIME FOR A REAL FIX!

Well, I am glad that you all get a "kick" out of my horse stories.

No more horsing around.

We get a "kick" out of you Mr. P.

Truth,

Eric Hoekstra handed out some demographic data and projections on the four maps at a recent board meeting. If those numbers are correct, in Maps A and B Southwest would lose about 250-300 students overall with Central and Andrews gaining students. Map C shows little change in overall enrollment (maybe 50 students) and Map D there is none.

I thought I had posted this somewhere in one of these strands. But anyway, here it is:

Starting info for each school

Andrews: 1,092 students; 79% minority/55% Free and reduced lunch (poverty measure)

Central: 1,351 students; 63% minority/49% FRL

Southwest: 1,303 students; 44% minority/26% FRL

Map A
Andrews: 1,170/66/39
Central: 1,435/66/60
Southwest: 1,010/49/33

Map B*
Andrews: 1,212/80/55
Central: 1,502/66/58
Southwest: 1,048/32/10

Map C
Andrews: 1,046/63/42
Central: 1,351/63/49
Southwest: 1,349/57/37

Two notes on this info.
*Map D is the 1999 lines and they don't have the present enrollment changing at any school if that occurs.
*The information for Map B doesn't say it is for map B*. I think it likely is for that map. But I just wanted to caution you that it might be for what has been called "Anita's Map" or the neighborhood map, which the board dropped from consideration at a recent meeting.

Thanks Jennifer, very good. I will investigate these numbers more but one thing I will say straight of the bat is that Map A is missing about 150 children. Add it up.

Flushing The Discipline Problems Down The Toilet? That is A Sharpe Idea!

At the Southern/Sumner public forum held on January 30th, a group of parents brought serious school discipline concerns to the attention of the school board. From their research they had found that Sumner had a total of 123 In/Out of school suspensions, whereas Southern had just 4 for the 2004-05 school year.

Did the Board attempt to find the root of this serious discipline problem? NOT EVEN CLOSE. Instead Dr. Grier did just the opposite in an attempt to sweep this problem under the rug. He made excuses for that extremely high number, saying that some of the suspensions had only been 'Half-Day' Suspensions, and that the number would not be as high as reported if those had not been counted in the mix. Shouldn't ANY disruption that inhibits other students from having a positive learning atmosphere, be a concern to them? According to the Board's own discipline policy, (G.S.115C-112) "The Board expects the principal to treat any suspension or expulsion as a very serious matter", and now it is the Board itself that is trying to dilute this high number by way of fabricating new terminology as needed. If you look under the DISCIPLINARY MEASURES section of the student handbook, there IS no disciplinary measure termed 'Half-Day Suspensions'. Grier said they had the 'reporting of incidences corrected'. It appears he feels it important to correct the method of recording the discipline problems, but not the discipline problems themselves. Good job, Grier. Now take a look at another Anita school... Eastern Middle. Already been redistricted and it is working so well, that they only had 952 suspensions for 04-05. Think they are just not totally their number accurately either??

Anita Sharpe backed up Mr. Grier by saying she too, had made a visit to the school to see for herself. She almost brought the audience to tears as she painted a very rosy picture of Sumner. The toilet facilities were 'immaculate' according to Ms. Sharpe. 'This is what I call a fine school'.

As the county employs custodians to clean the schools, wouldn't we expect ALL school toilets to be reasonably clean? As no one at the forum had even considered a toilet assessment, we have wonder why Ms. Sharpe even brought this up. Did SHE assume it was a dirty school? Did Grier? I say if they are going to judge a school by its toilets, don't discriminate. Maybe they can spend a few million tax dollars next year to do a toilet inspection for ALL of Guilford County's schools.

As for addressing the discipline problems, Grier stated that 'nothing went on at that school (Sumner) that didn't go on in every school'. 'Children will be children'. What will they be when they move on to middle and high school and continue to behave in a manner that warrants a call to the police? Again, he made lightly of the situation. Did he not LISTEN to the public speaker at the last forum, who had documented the numerous times the police had been dispatched to Sumner due to students threatening teachers and other violent acts? As that speaker also stated the police had NOT been dispatched to Southern, I guess Mr. Grier's statement, was incorrect.

At the end of the Board meeting on the 9th, one public speaker, who had waited patiently for over four hours, finally got a 3 minute chance to remind the Board of the facts. The speaker set the record straight on soft numbers, the high quality of both school's teachers that had been presented at the forum, and the high number of discipline problems at Sumner.... leaving Grier and Ms. Sharpe looking a little flushed themselves.

Thanks to our Tidy Bowl Inspections Committee, we now know that it is the School Board, and NOT the school toilets, that are full of _ _it.