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"They're already training in ways to incorporate more science in their classroom."

Why do we wait for state mandates to encorporate more learning into the day?

Teaching to the test? Or genuine concern to teach more Science?

We know the answer.

Some people don't like NCLB. But reason it was put in place was that many local systems weren't getting the job done. It is not perfect, but we deserved it.

Joe,
My daughter came home and said she is just not learning in one of her classes. The upshot is that there a several children who just do not want to learn there. I spoke to the teacher who said he is doing all he can. Detentions, calling the parents etc.
You know what the solution is. Move my child to another class.

Sorry Joe, your system does not work. The fact is that teachers have no power anymore. This class has 25 kids in it. Ten do not want to learn. My daughter is ok now but what about the other 14 that are not complaining? They are not learning thats for sure.

While this is happenning the suspension rates continue to fall and so does the Educating of our children! Yipeeeee says Dr Grier, looks great on my resumieeee!

This place is &&%%$$#& up!

How do we get more kids to like school? It's a tough question. I believe if they have parents, friends, teachers that like and support schools, that is a step in the right direction. We are unable to sell the idea that school is a wonderful opportunity. In the athletic world,kids know that if they are good they can make millions. Why can't we get kids to know that school is worthwhile and it will lead to the abundant and satisfied life. When I was growing up, I dreamed to have the nice house, the good wife and the happy family. If was obvious to me that the way to get it was thru a good education. A good education has never failed me. Even in hard patches, it has helped me get thru them. I had classes as large as 36 students. Somehow we coped. Are things really that different today?

Joe,
Yes, things are that different now. I too, thought that education was the way to a better life. But, and it's a large but... if I got in trouble at school I would catch h**L at home! Parents supported the teachers, if kids got in trouble at school they were punished. People didn't question the principal.. It was their school and you followed the rules. That does not happen anymore. Kids know how to 'work' the system. Parents only believe their kids, not the adults. GCS doesn't support their teachers, there are higher standards and accountablity (good thing, but takes time)
I could go on and on, but there it is! When I took the SAT, if you made 800 and could afford it you could get into UNC,NCState, etc.. no real competition etc. Now if you don't make 1250+, make it into the top 10% of your class, etc you kid might not get into the college of their choice. This is why parents are VERY concerned about the quality of education! You can't get that type of education if the class has people that consistently disrupt the class!

Joe,

Many of todays problem Children in our schools are products of the great Socialist Movement of the Sixties,,,,,many believe that being dependent on Govt handouts is the way it is and the way it will be forever in their lives...

Thanks to the Kennedys and the Kearns of the world, we have a group in society that knows nothing more than to wait for assistance from big Govt,,,many times trading a Vote along the way( Right Dot ??? ).

This system has done nothing but Oppress the very people that needs the most help,,,,Help in the form of EDUCATION.

When our school board quits trying to shuffle and hide these students and actually comes up with a Concrete Plan that will prepare them for a better Life,,,then and only then will positive strides be made towards a change in attitude for these students.

Socialism has failed throughout the world,,,it amazes me that many on our school board continue to keep the CHAINS on these children by neglecting their duty to properly Educate them.

I do put blame on any child that will not accept the opportunity offered him through public education,,,but also GCS is to blame as well for not offering a QUALITY EDUCATIONAL ENVIRONMENT in many of our schools.

Swaps, Trade Offs, Lotteries, or More Magnets are not the Answer,,,Educate all children ,,,Close to their home ,,disipline when needed, and give and Demand respect.

Dot,,,what kind of message are you sending a kid when you tell him that he is to poor to learn without assistance from a monetarily superior child?????

That is a Slap in the Face to that family,,,,,but swindling them for a VOTE is also somewhat of an insult to....

The shame of it all is that many families do not Know who the Real Bad Guys are....

That's got to be Star #15. Bravo, General. Do I hear a second?

I second that motion!

FYI
WXII-12 NEWS SITE
SAYS BETTER MAPS
ARE FOR PUBLIC VIEW
AT THE HIGH POINT PUBLIC LIBRARY
SUSPOSE TO HAVE DETAIL STREET INFO

Hey General, I am stealing the phrase from the parents of Southern Elementary; maybe this could be a new magnet.

DILUTION IS NOT THE SOLUTION!!!!!!

Bruce, et al,

What good are more EOG tests when the system continually does social passing because they don't want to hurt their self-esteem.

Kids who can't read and write are still passed.

This message will only be loud and clear when students have to pass the five subjects to graduate and the drop out. Everything eventually comes out in the wash. And this will be the BIG laundry day in Guilford County on their "no graduation" day.

I feel sorry now for the children we just keep pushing through without the skills they need. The system has failed them and continues to fail them.

I worked the Career Fair all day at Southwest HS today and met some of the nicest people. During break, I met two gentlemen who had booths: one was an Army recruiter, one was a policeman. Both were African American parents. They each have children in elementary school in Guilford County. We had some great discussions about respect, following rules and having consequences. The one gentleman was telling us the story about his son not wanting to wear a belt and dress respectfully but he did eventually obey his father. This is what led to a discussion on rules, etc. and of what is currently being allowed to go on in our schools.

When a teacher is knocked on a ground during a fight and hurt, and the consequences are very minimal, something is seriously wrong in our schools. When an SRO can be held against a wall by three "kids" and threatened, something is seriously wrong in our schools.

If someone does not get a handle on this situation and face reality, it will only get worse. The signs are there but certain people are choosing not to read them.

Testing alone isn't the answer, but we all know that we focus on the things we get measured on. It's just human nature - if you measure something, it must be important.

Creating a science EOG will encourage (force?) schools to focus more on science. Many good teachers - such as Jefferson's Sami Lotz - already are doing this.

I hear what you are saying about social promotion, but when the schools try to do anything about it, plenty of parents complain.

For example, GCS has a new policy that students who flunk the Algebra I or English I end-of course test must repeat the class. Makes sense to me; if you can't pass the test, you don't know the material well enough to move on to the next class. But a lot of people are angry about this policy.

Bruce,

So parents complain because their child's self-esteem may be injured because he didn't receive a social promotion? Parents are more concerned with their child moving through the system whether they learn anything or not? Maybe some parents need to grow up and take more responsiblity for their child and his development. Schools need to be concerned with providing equal oportunity for children, not equal outcomes.

Bruce and Barbara Ann,

Where I come from there is a saying, "what doesn't get measured, doesn't get done". That's not as colorful as Mr. P's horses and mules stories, but you get the idea.

When parents put their children on the bus at 5 years old, they want the best for their children. Parents really do care. Why can't we teach parents what do as their children progress up the ladder. I believe that parents of First Graders, Sixth Graders and Ninth Graders should be required to go to a one session school on how to help their child. Some people that are trying get it all wrong. Take reading to your child. People think that is great. For most it is the wrong method. The children should be reading to the parent not the other way around. Also, children have to learn that reading is not a two person enterprise. I plead guilty to reading to my children only when they were very young. By the time they entered school, they read to me. I may have been wrong, but I think it is a better system.

I'm coming out of lurkdom to say -- I do not like the way our schools are 'teaching for the tests' and because of this, our children are not learning for learning's sake. My two older (one is a sr and one is a soph in high school)children had terrible science backgrounds until they reached 8th grade. It was then that the school seemed to tell the kids that it was time to actually learn something in science -- probably to prepare them for the rigors of the mandatory high school science curriculum. However, I feel this was too late to start. Sure, they'd have little science lessons in the lower grades, but nothing really significant; and don't get me started on the Science Fair projects, because we all know who does these, and it's not the kids! In fact, my children used to tell me that they hated science and that it was boring. I attributed this to teachers who didn't really have the time to make the subject understandable and interesting -- they were using it as time fillers.
While I hate all of this mandatory testing that goes on, perhaps these Science EOG's should be taken as a positive thing for our children. Science is an important subject and needs to be taught (just don't teach it for the test please!).

One of the parents that spoke at BOE meeting about retaking Algebra said that the child made b's in class and failed the test. Taking that info account you have either 1) a teacher that gives easy grades and doesn't teach-who's standards aren't high enough 2) a child that 'froze' during the test 3) combination of both. If a student is making d's and e's and fails noone is surprised, but if a 'good' student fails that is a different matter. I have heard many people say that earning an A at many of our schools is much easier than at others. There should be a certain standard of expectations within our system, so that an "a" is truly an "a"

Joe,

I agree with you 100% on the reading issue.

This falls right in with my earlier post.

Dot Kearns Regime reads to the students ( typical Socialist tactic that leaves them dependent on big Govt) instead of letting them learn to read (which would enable them to fend for themselves without the need to trade their Vote for Public Assistance).

If Dot and her Cronies would allow the masses Read to them,,,they might comprehend that all children, no matter what income level, have the ability to soar like Eagles...

The only down side for Dot is that she would then lose the Vote of the People that she used to Control....

People,,,do you want to Soar???????

Or do you want to continue to be one of Dots' " CAGED BIRDS " ?????????

Bruce,

I am glad to say that I answered all of the five questions correctly, and that's pretty good for someone thats been out of school for more than...well, a few years. I will say that I had to think a little on # 2, though. It was a little tricky.

Bruce,

Here's an assignment for you - give the test to each of the 11 School Board members and publish the results.

I'm impressed, Stormy.

You know, we have talked in the past about asking the school board members to take a sample test of the same types of questions that elementary and middle school students must take. Usually, that idea comes up when the kids are taking their end-of-grade tests. I think it would be a lot of fun, but we haven't ever gotten around to it before.

But maybe this year would be the year to do it. I don't know if the school board would be game, but if they are, maybe we could get some other folks to take it, too. Heck, I'd be willing to take it.

Count me in too!

Bruce,

I'm all for it. Do you think that the board would have to go through some testing coaching first, though? GCS seems to feel that teaching to the test is what is needed.

I have to admit that the questions were not easy, espcially if taken by 5th and 8th greaders, but I suspect that they could pass the test if they were paying attention in science class. I'm pretty sure that I learned those things in school myself. It is interesting, though, that the questions did relate to everyday things in our daily lives, i.e., the information is relevant.

I think having a Science EOG is a wonderful thing. Our school curriculum needs to be more rigorous overall and having a Science EOG will force schools to be more accountable. I recall clearly being reprimanded one year by my principal because I was teaching Social Studies half of my class time instead of focusing just on Language Arts (I was a Social Studies/LA teacher). I was told that Social Studies was not tested and that I needed to focus on Language Arts the last half of the year. I was shocked. More recently, I spoke with a middle school teacher who was allowed to teach students science for only half of the year so that the students could have more time to prepare for EOG tests on math and language arts. The teacher was offended that their subject area was not taken seriously and was planning to teach at a private school or leave teaching.

The downside to this for me is that I will have to stay after school and tutor more. My fellow teachers and I are already working with a group of freshmen that did not pass their 8th grade tests in math and/or reading. We also have to tutor these students and others to prepare for their 9th grade EOC courses. I guess we'll be working with kids that didn't pass their science EOG in a few more years. Where does it end?

While I do support making course work more rigorous and schools accountable, all of the high stakes testing is taking the joy out of teaching for me. Ideally, the tests should correlate with what the students need to know to be successful in the next grade and after graduation. However, I'm finding too often that my students need basic reading and writing help and that a multiple choice test does not address their needs. I'm becoming ashamed of myself. I do what is asked of me to help my school pass AYP and to make the numbers look good; and meanwhile, my students still do not have the reading and writing skills I know they will need to "make it" after high school. Something needs to change.

Andi,

Sounds like we have a fundamental collapse of learning in our public schools. If students can't read and write, then how can there be any expectation that they can learn anything? When I took the five question exam that Bruce referenced, I found that reading comprehension was very important in getting the right answers. If you can't read for comprehension, then you won't get very far in life, much less pass an EOG test.

There was a letter to the editor today from a Grimsley teacher complaining about the requirement of teaching to the test in the district. I agree with the teacher that teaching to the test is inhibing learning, but the problem is not the test, it is the requirement of administrators to "teach" in that manner, if you call that teaching. We need testing for accountability in public education, but we need to be able to do it and have real learning occur as well. Central office and the school board need to understand that.

Great comments by all.

Even in "teaching" the test, if samples of types of questions were reviewed, these same lessons have actually been taught, and the material is relative and important, this is different.

What amazes me in our standard tests at the elementary levels, some children who are slow learners are "read" the tests. I am not talking about children who take English for 2nd language. If year after year, children are read the tests because they can't read and comprehend, when does this practice stop? It is important to mainstream, but what eventually happens to these children?

How can kids graduate if they can't read on their own? What types of jobs can they get? Their employers aren't going to read to them.

They are read the tests and then passed along to the next grade levels. There are children with special needs, but if we can't teach them to read on their own, how are we helping them?

I was talking with my cousin from Maryland on day about our kids and school and she was telling about her girls having to write book reports and having science projects. Her girls are in the 2nd and 3rd grades. My boys are in the 10th, 4th, and 2nd grades and neither of them have had to write a book report nor have they had a science project. Our children are only being taught to take this EOG test. This is all I have heard for the past 8 years and I am just sick of it. I just want my children to be taught something they can take to college and on a job. If the teachers are allowed to teach these children how to read, how to write, how to act, teach them the math they need to go to the next grade and then test these children on class room material thats all they need. Who can stop this madness with the EOG testing?