News-Record.com

Not only are the maps hard to read, but the numbers don't add up. When numbers don't add up, there is hidden (intentional or not) information. On one of the maps, the numbers didn't add up, only to find out that is because it sends our kids to a different elementary school! Which is not mentioned on the map explanations, nor did most school board members realize the change. Hellloooo! Sending your kids to a new elementary school is kind of a big change don't you think? Especially when no one realized it until a week ago. I want the school board to slow down and look at all the maps and see that they just don't add up and they don't make sense. How could they purposely approve maps and they don't even really know what (or who) is involved. It is outrageous!! They have got to get a grip on rushing this through. I'm still hoping they will see the light this Thursday....we can only hope.

Dr Grier's statements on the maps and the communication on them are an insult to all Guilford County residents and they are an insult to the Board. The comments are a clear indication that the man is a complete and utter IDIOT!

With this post I am asking the Board to call him into the office inform him that he has lost his job and kick his backside out the door!

Alan, do your duty!

Bamboozle... that word is troubling me. I read that article earlier (on-line, as I would never pay to have such words dropped at my doorstep)and that word keeps haunting me.

I wonder, what would being "bamboozled" be? Grier says, "If we were trying to Bamboozle you.." ....well, actually I'd like to know what a bamboozlement would be?

Would it be: Having your neighborhood reassigned AGAIN, for the third year in a row?

Would it be: Having your neighborhood reassigned to one of the lowest performing high schools in the entire state?

Would it be: Learning that not only could my middle schooler and high schooler be reassigned but NOW my elementary child too?

Would these are fall under the classification of being "BAMBOOZLED"?

I hope Dr. Grier will clarify what his opinion of "bamboozled" is. Because, I think I'm in the midst of one helluva bamboozle and if that's not his intentions, then he should change the course that the Board of Education is going. I understand that he works for them, BUT, what good is he if he can't stand up to them and thell them a BIG BAMBOOZLE when he sees it. From what I understand, he's soon a bamboozle or two.

When are the N&R editors going to stop fantasizing that there is a great conflict and debate in Guilford co. between "neighborhood" schools and "integrated schools" as indicated in Ed Cones column yesterday. Everyone believes in "neighborhood schools". This was dramatically seen at the High Point Providence Place forums. People weren't there to argue about concepts they were there for their neighborhood school. In fact, some people (especially one's on the schoolboard) believe in neighborhood schools so much that they are willing to go to the extent of wielding political power to kidnapp people from THEIR neighborhood schools and bring them to THEIR OWN neighborhood school if they think it will help their school. Obviously, like any parent with a functioning brain, if your child is being transported from their neighborhood school in support of somebody else's idea of their neighborhood school for someone else's interest at complete disreguard of your parental interest, it's not going to sit too well, especially if there is a perceived difference in quality between schools.

The N&R editors always talk about "re-segregation". Although all the controversy on this issue has centered in High Point, there are only two schools in the whole county that anyone could call segregated and they are both in Greensboro and they are segregated due to geography not by any intent on the part of parents or students. There are schools outside of Nome, Alaska that are 95% Eskimo. The N&R editors would have these people flagellating themselves as racists until one of the Eskimo parents would raise their hand and say "Mr. Johnson, isn't it because Eskimo's live here."
At which time, Mr. Johnson would say: "that may be true but that doesn't make it right".

Everybody believes in neighborhood schools NO DEBATE. The only debate is who gets exploited for who's benefit.

without having time to re-word my email to "central office", i have cut and pasted those thoughts below.

good afternoon sonya,
i hope you are doing well this chilly afternoon.

this email is in reference to gcs' redistricting maps. after reading bruce buchanan's article in the news-record yesterday, i felt inclined to officially inform "central office" of the illegibility of your redistricting maps. by the way, "central office" DOES include dr. grier, am i right? so any comments he received through any venue would count as "central office complaints", right? according to dr. grier's statement, apparently he must feel he is not part of central office, thus any complaints he receives directly mean nothing.

i have not commented previously simply because i had heard so many people make these issues known through 3 public forums, a few board meetings, in newspaper articles, editorials and on the news. i figured central office already was aware how unclear and difficult to understand these maps were. apparently, i was wrong.

is there a policy/procedure somewhere that states that unless concerns are channeled through you, ms. conway, they "do not count"? any time a concern is voiced to dr. grier or the board, should a copy of that grievance also be forwarded to you or someone else in "central office"? that is the impression i got from the article.

let me be clear: the redistricing maps are difficult to read, in fact, are impossible to figure out, not only for many of us regular folks, but apparently for some board members, some of whom cannot understand them either. and the "new and improved maps" were published much too late for public input. yet, somehow, someway, regardless of a lack of understanding of these maps, regardless of incorrect and inaccurate figures from central office, the public was to provide input. even though the board and dr. grier heard from hundreds at 3 forums, i wonder how many more would have been present if they had access to understandable maps and known they might be impacted. we'll never know.
also without adequate info, the board is planning to vote on where to redistrict and send THOUSANDS OF CHILDREN for the next four years WITHOUT clear, concise maps and without accurate enrollment data.

dr. grier says, in talking about complaints received by central office, "You could count them on one hand...the vast majority of people seem to understand the maps." again, where is the accountability and responsibility? again, parents are apparently being blamed for dr. grier's central office not providing adequate maps which were available to everyone, including those without computers, in time to provide their input. even though dr. grier (and the board) heard many, many complaints about these maps, because these complaints were not routed through "central office", they did not count? it's like playing a game with a 3-year old - what an absolutely bizzare way to manipulate the facts. it makes me wonder if that new dr. chang (i think) is somehow involved in this fiasco. facts are facts: the maps were illegible to parents and board members, did not include street names or a legend. the enrollment data provided was inaccurate. these issues were made clear to both dr. grier and central numerous times over the last few months - to no avail. to no avail. to no avail. the complaints were largely ignored & now the board is expected to VOTE, in a hurry, without the information they need.

no, i don't thiink i am being bamboozled, i think the board is being bamboozled into making a very poor business decsion without the information they should have, deserve to have, & should demand to have. it is their JOB to represent their constituents and every child in this county. they cannot effectively do their jobs without their staff (central office AND dr. grier) providing timely, accurate information.
board members have questioned and requested accurate data, they have repeatedly said they do not understand the maps. but, to my knowledge, these things have not been provided. this has been discussed for MONTHS with no results. i suppose this presents no real problem, they will just go ahead and vote without really knowing or understanding the ramifications because now they are in a hurry -- again. they have talked about this for months, without accurate information/maps, in my world, when staff refuses to provide information that management needs for decision making purposes, that staff is fired.

i thought superintendent grier, and the rest of central office, worked for the board. they are supposed to provide the information the board needs and requests so that educational decisions in this county can be based on timely, clearly presented, accurate data. reckon i was wrong about that too.

ms. conway, if you are not the person in central office entrusted with the responsiblity of tallying all complaints, please make sure this email gets forwarded to the appropriate person. many thanks!

regards,
cheryl a. smith
106 hidden ridge drive
jamestown, nc 27282
887-3570

C. Boy,

Just an FYI, Ed Cone is not an editor here. He is a columnist who writes a weekly opinion piece on whatever topic he chooses.

He also is a local blogger. Check him out at edcone.com.

Just wanted to clear that up. Carry on ...

Cheryl,

I think I love you.

Thank you for saying what I was too pissed off to say.

Thank you
Thank you
Thank you

If clear communication was the intent from the beginning:

1. Why weren't the maps all put at several public libraries and various locations throughout the county, mentioning this in the newspapers, on the news and on the GCS cable channel INITIALLY?

2. Why weren't there hardly any streets mentioned on the intial maps and of the streets that were mentioned, why were the names so tiny to read?

3. Why did stars on stars on stars cover up names of important locations, i.e. schools? Why aren't there legends like explaining things?

4. Why weren't elementary school parents on potentially affect by some of the maps told that their children could be redistricted? Why was this information not sent home in flyers with the children so parents would know what was going on? Lots of flyers sure went home with children during the "Vote for Kids" bond campaign, They sure ran a lot of TV commercials then too.

5. Why did Dot Kearns comment at the Sunday forum something like, "I can't see how we know what we are doing?" when reading the maps. If the school baord doesn't know what they are reading/doing how is the public expected to know what to comment on???

6. If public forums are for comments and people commented at the forums that they couldn't read the maps, why was this not taken care of immediately?

7. Why weren't the effects of the numbers and ratios explained in detail along with the maps?

8. Why did resdistricting take two years before and this is being so rushed now?

9. Why is redistricting being proposed AT ALL for High Point when no new schools are being built?

Lot of questions to Central Office. Where are the answers?

Barbara Ann,
We should send all these comments to central office so they can be counted as "legitimate" complaints/comments.

Cheryl,
I hope you really did send your comment to central office, it was beautifully written!!

We all need to show up at the next forum on Thursday night and try to get this board to slow down, take their time and leave us alone!

i sent those comments to sonya conway, each of the board members & terry grier. i am looking forward to their responses.

Cheryl,

I sent this email on 12/27/05 (before public comment started)to Eric Hoekstra expressing concern with the maps.

Mr. Hoekstra,

Hope you are enjoying the holiday season!

I have attempted several times to read the map from the last school board meeting - 12/19/05 - unfortunately with all the stars in place I've not able to identify my neighborhood or locate some of the schools my children attend. It's also very difficult to read the street names.

With the public comment sessions coming up it's tough to voice an opinion based on the maps legibility at this time. I'm sure a larger view of the map is easily read but viewing the map on the GCS website is very difficult in the more densely populated areas.

Is it possible for me to receive a copy of the map minus the stars but still have street names in tact?

Thank you,
Ronda Evans

When redistricting is over, 98% of the parents that are now stirring up trouble will realize that it was all a waste of time. I have been thru it many times. Let's all take a deep breathe, settle down and start worrying about something else.

Thanks, Jennifer. I stand corrected. Most of all, would like to take this opportunity to apologize to Mr. Cone.

Joe,

You have no children in this system. We're not stirring up trouble - we only wish to have the FACTS. Is that too much to ask of our School system???

I am offended that you have portrayed parents in this light.

Joe, it seems like you have been around for awhile. Educate me. When was the last time Greensboro kids entered a lottery? When was the last time one of the Greensboro highschools had it's oldest neighborhood ripped away from it and transported en masse to another school? These things may have happened. Tell us about them. That's all I'm asking. If it was done, please add some details like; was it for socio-economic reasons, population shifts, or to make one of the schools a gang repository? Was it done because some sitting schoolboard members wanted to replace some of the kids at their neighborhood school who had left to go to private school? We need to know. Thanks.

Joe,

I have met you and you seemed like a likable man with good intentions. Your last post now makes me see that possibly my "judge of character" radar is off.

I wonder, when your son was accepted into HARVARD what you would have said if they would have then said to him, "Oh, sorry young Stafford boy, we now have enough white students at Harvard, we know that you would do well but we cannot accomodate you. We would like to offer to you accptance into another university. It's on the other side of town. It has a reputation of low-academic outcomes and has been rated at the bottom of all universities in the state, but we know that your white but over there will be the first steps in turning that school around. Thank you and goodbye."

No Joe, "stirring things up" was a horrific way to describe loving parents that just want what the rest of the kids in Guilford County get.

You severly disappoint me and I wish you would stick to your Edward R. Murrow concern.

Joe Stafford rides Flight #93.

JOE: Why are you people doing this?

PARENT: Wake up, Joe. They are aiming this plane at our neighborhood, Joe.

JOE: Stop trying to get in the cockpit. You're crazy. They wouldn't crash the plane. They know what they're doing.

PARENT: Joe, the planes been taken over by the Ayotollah of Emerywood, who's vowed that if things can't be like they used to be, she will take down herself and all public education around her.

JOE: You're just stirring up trouble. And 98% of you will come to realize it's just a waste of time.

PARENT: Could be higher than that , Joe

JOE; But it ain't my neighborhood!

PARENT: We know...Stewardess...Miss, you have a parachute for Mr. Stafford?

STEWARDESS: We only had one and I believe it was reserved for a Ms. Sykes....

Joe,

you latest comment is akin to Grier stating that the maps were perfectly ok, readable and that nobody complained about them.

These sort of comments are themes to unite the county.

Joe, callin Joe, this is ground control.....

Good point Joe, since its 2006 maybe everyone should be worried with how to vote Sykes and Duncan off of the School Board and make sure that a Mendenhall clone is not elected to fill that seat.

Then once the composition of the School Board starts to change maybe Dr. Grier will have to listen and follow orders rather than the tail wagging the dog, which is what we have now.

And I really disagree that it is these parents who are stirring up trouble. The parents are merely reacting to the trouble that the School Board and the School Administration under the watch of the School Board has created. I honestly doubt that any of these same parents view looking out for the best interests of their children as a waste of time.

I want your children to be safe. I want them to get a good education. I agree with FDR that "all we have to fear is fear itself". My children went to diverse schools their entire life. I am not going to write off young people before they are 15 years of age. I still have hope and if we get to the point where there is no hope we are in big trouble. As far as Harvard is concerned, I suspect that child from a diverse school that does well has a better chance of getting in than a child from a non-diverse school. Not every child can go to a top school. We have to have a way for those that don't to still succeed and b e competitive with those that finish from the so called "top" schools. The High Point plan is dead. Hopefully, the BOE and Dr. Grier learned a lesson. If you don't have community support going in, you may be in real trouble in implementing the program. I would be first to admit the High Point plan did not receive the attention and resources requred to make it work. When you have thousands of young children that are no learning, you have two choices. (1) Do something or (2) do nothing. I am still a (1)person but I don't have a closed mind on the matter.

Your radar isn't off, Soup Nazi: Joe is a likable person with good intentions. Like many of us on The Chalkboard, he genuinely cares about education.

That doesn't mean we always agree on the issues, though. Two people can disagree, but that doesn't mean they both aren't good, well-meaning people.

Right now, High Point could be left alone, Bonds could be safe, plans for new schools to alleviate problems four years from now could begin and school board wins, community wins and we can begin to address real problems of quality education. Andrews has larger class size than Southwest, has more space...I am sure someone has thought about smaller classes?

Discipline has reached new heights, yet heads are buried in the sand. Deena has real concerns about minority retributions. We need a review panel of independent citizens to review disciplinary activity. All names, locations, race etc. would be stripped from review file and evaluated against all other disciplinary activities to evaluate whether race played issue in discipline. This way punishment is equalized.

We must address real education issues, not bus the problems. Too many kids need help in their neighborhood. High Point Mayor and city council need to get involved in providing “neighborhood centers” for learning after school, soccer etc. to help these kids. They can work hand in hand with school system so the city and kids benefit.

I recently met with a group of attorneys and other professionals in Brunswick county. I as asked if we would object to a young man (junior in High School) sat in the meeting to observe as he was part of a program for youth career development and choice. Of 9 professionals, most worth more than 5 million, all were thrilled to hear of program and most took time to talk with this young man after the meeting and were interested in him, his views and the program. That program is helping get the business community involved with education one contact at a time. We need this desperately.

Real problems need real solutions and busing is not a solution. If kids from Andrews and Central are bused to Southwest, their parents that rely on public transportation are cut off because there is no public transportation to North High Point. This hurts those that need their parental support the most. How do these sick or disciplined kids get home?

The very simple real solution, do not redistrict High Point, choose D for do it, increase discipline, decrease class size at “poor” schools, build new schools and increase public involvement. “Don’t alienate public who already mistrusts.

Joe, your're still going the party line on the diversity thing. The kids getting jacked around are going to the second most diverse school in the county after Page. THIS IS THE SCAM. REPEAT SO WE DON'T HAVE TO EVER, EVER HAVE TO SAY THIS AGAIN. THE DIVERISTY ISSUE IS A SCAM. YOU SWALLOWED IT. THE N&R SWALLOWED IT. LOOK AT THE FACTS!!!!!

All this rancor is really
over a partisan effort by certain members of the schoolboard abusing their authority and deserting people they are supposed to be representing in order to modify the make-up of their own neighborhood school and attendant property values at the expense of someone else's neighborhood school. LOOK AT THE FACTS. You don't want to see this, because, like the News and Record doesn't want to see this, it is too small town, old timey, partisan- politic, pathetic to think about. Instead it is much better to dress it up as some type of progressive, politically correct, de rigeur "diversity" issue when this is TOTAL BS!!!! (But much more glamorus for the editorial page).

Joe,

I disagree that asking for maps that can be read by the masses is stirring up trouble!

The trouble is with the information or lack there of. As a taxpaying citizen and parent, I have every right to request information from Guilford County Schools that I can understand. I owe it to my children and community to be as well informed as possible on issues that directly affect their everyday life and education.

Personally, if I were a school board member I would be asking for documentation to back up the figures presented. Redistricting can have ramifications on many people in the future. If the figures being presented are incorrect, how can we as a community responsibly accept the outcome without question? Most board members take the information surrounding redistricting at face value.

I have a few questions – 1. How is the frl information presented for the new lines determined?
2. Is this information given to the board as backup for the new and old frl percentages?
3. If not, why not?
4. How are the numbers of students in neighborhoods determined?
5. Is new construction being taken into consideration?

I could go on and on! It was shocking to see the only information given to the school board at the retreat was four pieces of paper and some of the information was incorrect.

According to the News and Record Grier went on record this past weekend to state that he had heard comments at public meetings but he said the central office received almost no complaints about the maps.

“ You could count them on one hand," he said. Grier said the vast majority of people seem to understand the maps.

I must have been one of only five parents that complained assuming Grier has five fingers on one hand.

Since living in my current neighborhood, my family has been subjected to some sort of redistricting at least 3 or 4 times. I have lived in this neighborhood less than 5 years.

Please don’t call me a troublemaker until you have walked in my shoes and have all the facts!

Ronda

The BOE loves to redistrict. You see how many hours they devote to it. Those are hours that could have spent on motivating staff, getting criminals out of system, etc. I have not give up on low socio-economic students. I still believe somebody can teach them to behave and to learn. I ask one thing, don't give up of them to they are least 15 years old. I had a couple of experiences where people acted like they did not care what happened to me. It was very depressing.
I realize, I don't have the answers, but I want to join with others to find answers.

Amen, Joe.

Joe,

"I suspect that child from a diverse school that does well has a better chance of getting in than a child from a non-diverse school."

Why would you suspect that, Joe? What is your rationale for making that assumption?

Stormy,

College admission is brutal. Harvard, admits 20 per year from NC. No more, no less.
Suppose 5 or the top 20 applicants are at SW Guilford. Will they take all 5? No. They spread it around. Some schools have not ever sent a student to Harvard, they will get the nod over other schools that want to send many. Few schools except in the Northeast part of country send more than one. Your child is much better off at a school that only has one applicant. The bottom line is that if your child wants to go to a highly competitive school, the best thing is to keep quite. Don't encourage your classmates to apply. You may not like this, but this is way it is.

Huh? What does that all have to do with having a better chance of getting admittd form a diverse school than a non-diverse school? Joe, you speak in mysterious ways.

Stormy,

I think what Joe's trying to say is that diverse schools have fewer applicants to Harvard.

terp,

OK, but why would diverse schools have fewer applicants to Harvard? As I understand the theory, learning is improved and enhanced for all by having a diverse school. If that is so, why would we have fewer applicants to Harvard or any other top school? I am totally lost on the point of this discussion. So, what is your point, Joe? I am so confused. I just don't get it. If non-diverse schools produce more viable candidates for Harvard, then why would Joe say that students from a diverse school have a better chance of getting into Harvard than a student from a non-diverse school? I am so confused.

Joe,

According to Harvard's website, it states that the billed costs of attending Harvard in 2005-06 is $44,250-$46,750. How many parents do you think whose kids attend public school can afford to send their kid to Harvard at a cost of almost $190,000? I suspect not very many. Do you think that students that attend private school because their parents have much more disposable income have a better chance of actually attending Harvard? I would think so.

Harvard does not want all of their students to come from private schools. All I am trying to say is that if you want your child to get into Harvard, etc. send him to an average school where he will at the top of the class rather than a private school or top-notch public school where he will be 10th in the class. As for the price at Harvard, few pay the sticker price. If they want you, it is a lot less.

Joe,

Are you saying that diverse schools have fewer high achieving students?

Yes

Harvard?

It's Duke for us!

Go Devils!

Duke?!?

Ugh! I think I'm gonna be sick....

Joe,

I take your assessment as being one of an elitist attitude. Your thoughts closely resemble that of Dot Kearns.

We love WAKE TOO!

Bring on the scholarships!

But Elon is in hot pursuit.

But definitely not Harvard (sorry Joe, nothing personal) - too far and too liberal

Well, that's more like it!

And Elon is a great school, too. There are lots of good colleges and universities in North Carolina.

i have received a response from central office regarding the 2/5 article in which dr. grier suggests less than 6 people have complained about the redistricting maps.

the district "certainly realizes the difficulty experienced by many in reading and understanding the maps that have been presented to date."

here is my response:

Thank you for taking time to respond to my concerns. Please note that I have also added Mr. Becoats to this email distribution list.

First, I agree with you that the district fully realized the difficulty many of us, and several board members, had in reading and understanding these latest redistricting maps. I was glad to see you made that statement. That is why is I was so stunned by Terry Grier’s suggestion in the February 5 News-Record which alluded that the “district” had only received a few complaints which could be counted on one hand and the vast majority had no problems with the maps. He is “the district” and he was present at every board meeting and public forum at which many complaints were voiced.

I’m just not real sure why he would indicate there were so few problems, when in fact the district (and he) were obviously well aware of the very real problems with these maps. I wonder if he should issue a front page “correction” in the N-R, because the N-R’s general readership may have gotten the wrong impression from his message and they deserve the truth as both the district and Dr. Grier know it to be.

In the past, I do not remember such problems in reading or understanding redistricting maps. In fact, not until this current round of redistricting has there been problem that I am aware of. Those of us who are lucky enough to reside in High Point, North High Point, Southwest Guilford County and Jamestown certainly have had our share of redistricting maps since 1999, and I just cannot remember having any difficulties reading any other maps. In addition, enrollment data and other figures presented by Mr. Hokestra and other central office staff have also been more accurate in the past.

Thanks for mentioning the new, revised maps with street names. I had read in the paper they are available for viewing at 4-5 locations from 2/3/06 – 2/17/06. Will the board have all this info, including accurate data from Eric, before they vote on redistricting? I think they only have a couple of weeks left before their self-imposed deadline.

Unfortunately, the public forums were held prior to these maps being made available. Did information go home with all students at all grade levels in the schools impacted so every parent would be aware of these changes which may affect their families? So few read the paper, so few have computers, and so many do not speak or read English.

Off the subject, I understand that only about 30% of the English speaking population reads the newspaper. Do you happen to know what percent of the Guilford County student population owns a computer? What percent of GCS student population are part of the ESOL program or do not speak English? Do you happen to know since what date, and how many times, have board members requested legible maps and accurate enrollment data from central office?

Again, thank you.

Cheryl,

This is a great e-mail. Thank you for stating the facts.

I take particular issue with the fact the "legible" maps were printed AFTER THE FORUMS.

What good is that????

ba