News-Record.com

Very interesting article, Jennifer. Thank you for the link. I think NCLB is forcing this issue, but I'm worried about our high achieving students being overlooked.

Why do we keep placing blame on NCLB for all of the shortcomings of out public schools? NCLB became necessary when schools weren't doing their job of educating children in the basics, like English and math. We all know that until NCLB, social promotions was the order of the day. Kids were floating through school and graduating without being able to use the English language or count change.

So, yes, NCLB and testing became necessary to force school districts to do what they were supposed to be doing. If those schools are choosing to teach to the test so that studnets may pass the test, rather than actually teach the subject, then what are we gaining? Schools aren't being accountable, they are just working around the tests, then placing blame on NCLB for having to eliminate the other subjects so that the can do what they are supposed to be doing.

Our children are falling behind the rest of the world. We are rated someting like 20th in the civilized world and falling, and we are spending trilions of dollars while doing it. Does anyone know what the soluton may be? And, no, not testing students to hold schools accountable is not an acceptable answer.

How do you think NCLB discourages social promotion? When people make comments like that, it's obvious that they're out of touch with education issues.

I think the NCLB has given the states a standard to judge comprehension of a subject. It isn't perfect, but it does give some indication of mastery of a subject. I agree with Stormy, for years students have been passed so that their self esteem would not be injured (I personally think this is still the norm). Now we at least have a bar, no matter how low that they need to reach to go to the next grade. Of course this does not take into account that the principals have the power to pass a student even if they fail the EOG 3 times!

If there was no social promotion over the last 20 years, how can you explain high school seniors that read on a 3 grade level? Look at the HP report that said the applicant's could not fill out the paper work correctly.

Reading and handling the English language is the key to what we call education. Without it, little education can take place. Schools are certainly justfied in cutting back on non-core classes to enable a more concentration in English, Science and like courses. GCS needs to get on with it.

GCS Mom,

Easy on the condescending comments. I'm not as out of touch with education issues as you think. Yes, as Debora said, there are still social promotions going on under NCLB. No doubt about that, but the piper will have to be paid some day with social promotions. NCLB was passed to being accountability to public education, but school administrations' response to this is to cry about unfunded mandates and use the entire school day teaching to the test and testing. The problem isn't the testing, it's the school's approach to the solution. NCLB was not a perfect solution, but something had to be done to bring accountability to our schools. When you have children graduate from schools who are functionally illerate, something has to be done.

If NCLB is not the answer, then would you help identify the solution to schools not educating students? And, yes, high achieving students are being ignored. They are actually being left to learn on their own and actualy being expected to help slower learners. The big hope for the higher achievers is to get into an IB program or Early College where learning can truly occur. Or, if you can afford it, a private school.

It is not only the struggling students that double up on English and Math. In our middle school Math and English replaces our Science and History courses as the students prepare for the End of Grade testing.

I wonder what they will do when they have to take a Science and History EOG test.

Frank, then the shuffle will be a double dose of History and Science and English will fall to the way side.
NCLB is an imperfect system as has been noted. A large part of the problem with that system is that results are tied to money and we all know what happens when that occurs. Administration will do whatever necessary to get the money to teach the test to get the money to teach the test to get the money and on and on. Go back to the basic, teach the basics as they should be taught, pass those who pass and fail those who don't. Keep those in school who wish to learn and boot those who only desire to disrupte out the door. Throw out the political correctness and get on with behaviour correctness. Fire administrators who can't get the job done , same with teachers, and retain those who can and reward them accordingly. A dream? Maybe but it beats the heck out of the utopian dream of diversity equals passing and higher test scores. HOGWASH, and HORSEFEATHERS.

Dear mrproduce,

Will you marry me???

Comment of the year: "Throw out the political correctness and get on with the behaviour correctness. Fire administrators who can't get the job done..."

If a teacher is certified to teach science in middle school are they automatically certified to teach middle school English and Math?

If not, why are they allowing science and social study teachers to teach math and English?

Is it legal?

Of course it's legal....GCBOE can do whatever they want..legal never stopped them before..in fact,..they specialize in the business of illegal...they're PROS at illegal...THEY INVENTED ILLEGAL!!

ATTENTION DUDLEY STUDENTS

If it is not your desire to wear school uniforms.
Help in fighting the uniform policy can be found on
www.aprod.org and uniformResisters@yahoogroups.com.

Demand a better education, better teachers and better discipline instead.

Discipline and uniforms do not have to coexist.

Didn't mean to sound condescending, Stormy, but NCLB really sets me off. As a parent of an "exceptional child" who will never achieve at grade level but, according to NCLB, must be tested at grade level, I'm frustrated. NCLB doesn't affect the students' promotion or retention. NC Gateways, although weak, attempted to address that. NCLB simply implements sanctions on my child's school and teachers because he will not be passing an EOG. If this is allowed to continue, who will want to teach my child and others like him?

The uniforms are to sort out the trespassers from your campus. Read the news what happened at Central High School today. The principal was assaulted in the crossfire. We have had this problem at Central, Dudley, Smith, Andrews and other high schools. People who are not students should not be allowed to simply come on campus and push drugs.

What will it take to make our schools safe???

GCSMom,

As a parent, I can relate to your concerns about educating an "exceptonal child". Yes, it is likely that the NCLB serves a too broad stroke when considering this group of children. This is certainly an example where the law is imperfect. However, the responsibiity for educating your child is remains that of the local school district, NCLB or no NCLB. It would seem that you and other mothers and fathers like you need to form a group to put pressure on and influence the school district to focus resources upon your children to ensure their success. Your children deserve a quality education as much as any other child. This is true with or without NCLB. The district can not opt to not educate your child. He has the same rights as any other child; they just may have to focus more resources upon him and others. Don't take any easy answer from them. Gently and firmly insist on your rights.

RE: School Violence, Discipline, Safety
What is happening in our schools?
When is “enough” enough?
What can we do to take back our schools?

I guess by now most of you have heard the news today or read “Principal injured during student fight at Central High” on line in today’s N & R (see Local News/High Point link)

What will it take before our school board and superintendent take strong leadership roles and necessary actions to make our schools safe? When I previously attended the Community Dialogue in Education meetings last year, some board members and Central Office Staff in attendance told us we should come to school board meetings with suggestions not criticism. I encourage each of you who reads this blog to write Dr. Grier, the school board and the commissions to make SAFETY the NUMBER ONE PRIORITY in our schools. Teachers and principals should not be assaulted. Period. There is no excuse for this type of behavior. Trespassers, drug dealers, gangs and child preditors should not be allowed on our school campuses. This should be prevented at all costs. There is no dollar amount too high to pay for our children’s, teachers’ and principals’ safety. If efforts are not put toward prevention and safety now, we will surely continue to pay dearly in other ways. I encourage each of you to speak out before these problems continue to escalate. Here are some suggestions to write about. I am sure you have many others. I have written to the school board and Dr. Grier about some of these in the past. For some I was told it was lack of “money”; for others they were in the works, etc. There are a lot of good teachers, principals, students and parents involved in our schools and there is a lot of good, but we cannot just sweep these problems under the carpet. When we continue to read about vandalism, principals being put in the hospital, shootings at bus stops, gangs, drugs, etc. it is time to speak out. I implore all of you to help “Take Back Our Schools”. Put a uniforms in schools as necessary, not just for the reasons that were recently expressed to help Dudley, but to identify students who DO belong in our schools and remove trespassers from our school campuses.

1. Require photo ID badges for ALL middle school and high school students in Guilford County.

2. Require ID badges for all construction workers and photo ID badges to be worn at all times by ALL Guilford County employees, including substitute teachers, maintenance people, janitors, etc. Make it imperative that ALL visitors must enter through the front door and sign in and have a name tag on.

3.
4. A few years ago the subject to installing metal detectors in some of our high schools came up. I haven’t heard anything on that in a few years. Sadly, this might be necessary in the future. What do you think?

5. Install cameras on all GC school buses, starting with high school and middle schools.

6. Hire additional officers to patrol outside high school and middle school campuses as necessary to keep trespassers out.

7. Bring School Watch into our schools. Educate everyone about this. Establish positive relationships between students and resource officers.

8. Restore the Guilford County Student Handbook to what it was 3 years ago. Enforce the rules equally for all students. Have realistic and meaningful consequences. Zero tolerance for certain offenses.

9. Establish Alternative Schools for those children who do not follow the rules of a traditional classroom setting. Build the Community Service Program for these same students.

10. Investigate and Apply for Federal Grant monies for safety programs and drug prevention and crime prevention in our schools.

11. Have teachers work in buddy systems in patrolling halls in between classes at certain times of day.

12. Have drills for teachers and staff on what to do when fight do break out.

13. Have Student Assembly meetings that encourage school spirit, unity, safety, and school pride. Build the school from within.

14. Provide new freshman with an upper classman of proven character as a buddy (big brother/big sister) for the first few weeks of school to familiarize them with their new environment. Encourage them to join sports, school clubs, etc. and to become involved in their school early on.

This is just a start. Please write TODAY.

Stormy,
I must not have been clear in my post or else your dislike of the schools led you to misunderstand my post. I'm happy with my child's school and teacher. He's getting an appropriate education from caring and supporting teachers. However, with the pressure that the teachers receive from NCLB, I anticipate that this will become more and more difficult. My complaint is not with the schools or the teachers, but with NCLB.

If keeping people off campus that do not belong is the goal of uniforms, then I would suggest that we do what "real professionals" do at work.

Assign ID badges and install security that requires these badges to enter the building and to be on campus.

Anyone can wear and get a polo shirt and khaki pants,
.....even drug dealers and most if not all of our school drug dealer are STUDENTS..................

I am an alumni from a Big 10 university and from their student paper I quote: "According to the study, 45 percent of faculty members feel that overall, "today's students are not as well prepared as their counterparts of 10 years ago."".

My question is WHY? This is serious! "We" keep trying to 'fix' the situation with forced busing, special arts programs, or whatever. Obviously these programs are not helping our children! These students are failing and districts and school boards keep trying to remedy the situation with things other than getting down to the basics. I am scared for my children. I have one about to go off to college in the fall -- I just pray that she is not one of those who are not prepared.

Numbersgame, my wife might object and of course it would be a violation of law, but give it a couple of years and it may not be considering that in schools anything goes and in a few years who knows it will probably spread into all facets of life. The PC crowd will be thrilled.

To Students Have Rights,

Until children are 18 and adults, parents have a legal obligation, a duty, a responsbility and a morale obligation to keep their children out of harm's way. I realize there are many parents who don't do this and expect the teachers, principals and other parents, "the system" etc. to raise their kids.

True, anyone can get a polo shirt and kakis. I guess we will have to have the school's logo on those polo shirts too. Of course, the drug dealers could borrow one of those shirts too. We can always then charge them with impersonating a responsible, successful future leader of our society. Getting flip here, but yes, it may not always help 100% but it could be one factor that is a deterant.

You are right about many of the students dealing drugs. That is what I hear from the students. We need School Watch. We need everyone working TOGETHER for the common good and safety of our children. We need to quit worrying about protecting people who are breaking the rules. If you want a drug free school, you all must do your part.

You do have some great ideas about safety. I encourage you and your friends to pursue them, speak out at school board meetings about what YOU, as students can do and what you want to keep your school safe. Focus on what is real and not superficial like what someone wears or how much they have. It is what is inside of you that is really of true value. That is what will give you pride to be from Dudley.

From what I heard, the uniforms at Dudley were voted on by parents. They DO have the final say because they are the adults. That is just how it is.

Think of the money you will save by not having to buy so many clothes. You could save for something very special, a car, a special weekend trip, a special outfit for the prom. Think how much fun you can have when you go out with your friends. You can have fun then deciding what to wear. And remember, in school everyone will in the same boat. It will work out. This is only 4 years of your life, a speck of sand in the hourglass of time. It's certainly worth a try if it helps your school's performance, reputation and safety environment.

I know most parents will be happy because they won't have to argue about what is acceptable for their kids to wear to school. It will save time in getting out the door. More time to sleep which a recent study shows teens need more of.

That's my take. I went to a Catholic school. We had strict dress codes. I personally would have preferred uniforms for many reasons. One, it would have been much easy than shopping for clothes that conformed to the dress codes. It is one less thing in a teen's busy life that you will have to worry about.

Debora,

Amen to everything you have said. Very wise as always.

Jennifer,

Can you fill us in on the purpose of the closed door school board meeting tonight to discuss personnel issues?

What's up??

Numbersgame,

I've called school board members but have only reached Deena Hayes. She was reluctant to discuss the specifics, saying she wasn't sure if she could tell me anything about what was to be discussed because it is a closed session.

I'll keep trying today to find out.

When Mother and Father put Junior or Susie on the bus to go to his/her first day of Kindergarden, they support the system and want the best education possible for little tot. We have the parents in the palm of her hand on that dale. They are willing to do anything for Junior or Susie. I am afraid that too many have lost confidance in the Teachers and other personnel. Some parents do not know how to help their children. Many years ago, I advocated mandatory school for parents. They would be required to go to a two hour session when their child was in the first grade, sixth grade and ninth grade. The instructors would be experienced paid instructors. The emphasis would be on reading and providing a proper environment for your children at home. I still think this could be helpful.

Jennifer,

The next time that you talk to a board member about the meeting tonight, ask them if it has anything to do with a representatitive of the school district contacting local businesses for incentives to keep Teryr Grier in Greeensboro. What you wanna bet, it does? Terry Grier applied for the job in Charlotte for a very good reason. He wins if he gets the job, and he wins by our school board running around raising funds to keep him here. He can't lose.

GCSMom,

Now you have me really confused. Your posts are all over the lot.

"I'm worried about our high achieving students being overlooked."

"As a parent of an "exceptional child" who will never achieve at grade level."

"who will want to teach my child and others like him"

"I'm happy with my child's school and teacher. He's getting an appropriate education from caring and supporting teachers."

"My complaint is not with the schools or the teachers, but with NCLB."

So, I guess that I can conclude that you really just don't like NCLB, as your child, whichever he is - high achieving or exceptional, is getting a good education from caring and supporting teachers, that may not want to teach him. Right?

I don't see how any dislike for the schools led me to misunderstand your post, it was your posts that led to my misunderstanding. We've already discussed that NCLB is a less than perfect program. It's not the teachers fault, it's the administration's way of dealing with accountability that is causing the problems. You should place pressure on the school district to return to actually educating as a way to meet testing standards. Now, that's a unique and novel approach to kids passing tests - having them learn the material. The school administrators do a very good job of placing blame on NCLB and testing as the bad guy in this scenario. that enables them to deflect the accountability which NCLB is all about. Don't fall into their trap.

We already have a contract with Dr. Grier to stay several more years. Am I hearing you correctly, we must give more money for him to honor his own contract. This is crazy and I like him. If this takes place, I will be embarassed to live in Guilford County.

The incident seems to be a little more severe than has previously been reported. Here's something from the HPE today:

"But later in the day, police confirmed that two students involved in the fight allegedly assaulted Johnson while she was trying to break up the confrontation.

“My understanding is that she was punched and kicked,” said High Point Police Capt. Jim Baldwin."

If true, this is serious stuff. "Assault Resulting in Serious Bodily Injury" is considered a violent criminal offense under the definition as a persistently dangerous school in North Carolina. It will be interesting to see if Terry Grier gets this recorded as a "slip and fall" for Ms. Johnson, rather than an assault resulting in serious bodily injury. He certainly has something at risk here depending upon how he can get it classified.

Joe,

This happened once before, so it is nothing new.

When most high placement positions are being interviewed and offered a job it isn't unheard of that their current employeers review thier work and sometimes make a counter offer, sometimes not. This has happened with my husband in the past and many other professionals that I know. Do I think we should do that? NO Do I think it might cost us more to hire someone else? Maybe Will it cost us money to hunt for a replacement? YES- Could it be an extremely positive move for our county YES Could it be bad YES-- what is the old saying 'out of the pan, into the fire'-- you never know who would be hired, what their 'vision' is, etc. The unknown is not always good, but I for one am willing to take our chances with someone new and see if they believe in true education, not unproven programs.

Bush and his NCLB policy screwed everything up in education. Now the teachers are required to teach the test instead of the subject in order to meet mandates. Under his guidance, Texas produced some of the stupidest kid's in our education system (still does today). Based on his lack of success in Texas, how would anyone think his mandates were gonna work in the nation?

More than likely as a result of Dr. Grier being courted by Charlotte, the GBOE just might try to renegotiate his contract, sweeten it up a bit, just in case Charlotte says to him, "You're our guy". In my opinion, Dr. Grier's in the drivers seat in this matter and regardless of what transpires, will come out smelling like a rose.

He revolutionized the education system in Guilford County and while doing so has attracted the attention of one of the more progressive communities in North Carolina, as well as others who are standing on the sidelines hoping for a chance at this guy.

He's one crafty and cunning type of guy, and I admire him for playing one against the other. Sort of Machiavellian in nature.

Bubba,

Maybe Texas just has stupid parents that keep reproducing stupid offspring. Where is your data to back up the "stupid" theory?

Maybe like many in North Carolina education as a main focus is not a priority.

Bubba:

Texas like NC has a large number of illegal immigrants whose children do not speak English. This could result in lower test scores just like in NC.

Bubba,

You are off in placing blame. The NCLB Act, reauthorized the ESEA. It's main goals included increased accountability for States, school districts, and schools; greater choice for parents and students, particularly those attending low-performing schools; more flexibility for States and local educational agencies (LEAs) in the use of Federal education dollars; and a stronger emphasis on reading, especially for our youngest children.

Bubba, NCLB is a law, dutifully passed by Congress, it's not George Bush's policy, nor is it his mandate. The mandate given by Congress under NCLB was for states and local schools to be accountable for the use of federal funds. NCLB doesn't mandate how schools teach children, it's still their call.

Nowhere here does it say that testing is the main and only element of NCLB. Testing came out of the accountability phase of NCLB. Prior to NCLB, there was no accountability for school districts to educate children. Because of the fear of losing federal funds, school districts instituted the teach to test practice. They are the ones that are "screwing-up" the system. NCLB doesn't mandate teaching to the test, just accountability for the use of federal funds.

And, as I recall NCLB received widespread bipartisan support in Congress, so if ain't just George Bush's fault if you don't like it. If you don't like how schools are being run, teaching to the test, tell them to get with the program. They are the ones wasting our tax dollars. If Terry Grier and the school board don't like dealing in accountability, tell them to stop taking federal funds.

Dear Swim mom,

I agree that our kids are not as well prepared. Our society is going to the dogs. We curse more, we want instant gratification (IPODs, micowave, fastfood), kids don't know the meaning of a hard-earned dollar (they want $10,$20) a buck means nothing. Parents let their kids get away with all types of inapproriate behavior with no concequences. This all falls over into our schools. It is never the kids fault, the dog ate the homework, we had soccor practice, etc, etc. Education is not first in many homes, and the parent back the kids not the teachers. We don't value our teachers (pay or respect) so why should the kids. Society in its entirely has changed and the school systems in the county aren't any different. Sad to say, but the bar has been lowered and lowered and is touching the floor in my opinion.

Bubba forgot that Ted Kennedy helped write the NCLB program and actually pushed it through Congress even though many on both sides did not like the bill.
And Bubba when you can produce some facts about Texas producing a lot of stupid people I am sure many would be interested in seeing a good comparison with NC and other states. The other posters here got it right. And I will add this: You throw out boloney and have no bread to put it on.

Stormy,

NCLB legislation was passed on Bush's watch in 1/2002 with more aggressive enforcement features than prior. Bush's 2000 platform heavily promoted the NCLB, a policy he prided himself on in Texas, and was successful, along with the successful assistance and learned guidance of Senator Ted Kennedy, to pass it in one form or another in the US Congress.

I have family who are teachers in NC who have told me the administrative pressure is on to have the kids pass the end of year test. Thus added emphasis, almost an obsession, is placed on covering the subject areas that are/might be on it. Now, our kid's schools resemble a test prep facility since Bush stole the election of 2000.

Mr. P,

There are plenty of websites and papers, see the NEA's, detailing the abysmal affairs of the Texas education system (per capita spending, salaries, test scores). For example, the starting salary of a teacher in Texas is less than 27,500. per year. Of course, in 2000 we all were entertained with the derogatory statistics related to the educational "progress" in Texas.

How did you know I like bologna?

Bubba,

You need to pay closer attention when someone is talking to you. Yes, we've been saying here that school administrations have been placing incredible pressure on teachers to test and teach to the test. It is a result of NCLB, but it's not a requirement of NCLB, it's the school administrations' response to accountability that NCLB brings. That is the whole point of this discussion. the fault doesn't lie in the law, it lies in the short-sighted response to teach the test, rather than teaching the subject so that students can pass the test. Big difference, Bubba. Not the teachers' fault, it's the school administrators.

Now, as regards Texas. The Report on American Education 1976-2001 produced by the American Legislative Exchange Council produced an extensive state by state analysis and comparison of education. To make a long story short, the Ranking of States Based upon Academic Achievement had Texas ranked 37, not so good. But, North Carolina was ranked 32. So, if the Texas school system is abysmal, then you have to place North Carolina into the same class.

Do you think that your teacher family would like being referred to as teaching in an abysmal school system, because by your standard, they are.

http://www.alec.org/meSWFiles/pdf/Education_Report_card.pdf