News-Record.com

The parents of these troubled children dont want these children at home either. They would much prefer them at school for the school to take care of.
Therein lies the root cause of the problem.

I do agree however children shouldnt be sent home for minor problems. But surely this is not what we are talking about.

I believe Mr. Kirkpatrick had the solution for this problem back in November of 2004. It was unfortunate that 2% more of the voters of Guilford County preferred what Dot Kearns likes to do with these children.

There are several not kind things I could say in response to this post, I'll stick by Mr. Kirkpatrick's idea.

Without a successful program in place at each school, the drive to reduce suspensions is a ticking time bomb with horrible consequences. I agree that students should not simply be sent home, and that they need to be in a program that not only addresses academics but also their behavioral issues and decision-making. As it stands now, some teachers at some schools are no longer writing referrals because a) they don't believe anything is going to be done with the student at the administrative level, and b) they don't want administration knocking on their door and questioning why they couldn't keep a kid "under control" in the first place. And if this trend continues, students -- of any color -- are going to continue to repeat their bad behavior and the learning environment for teachers and fellow students will continue to crumble. And if that scares you, it should. It's a frightening outlook unless something happens fast, and we will be among more local families trying to figure out how we could even possibly afford sending our children to private school.

Deena Hayes,

What is the Administration supposed to do with a child who uses the term, M.F. more so than Yes Sir or Thank You??????

What is the Administration supposed to do with a child who deals with conflict with threats to Kill their teacher????????

What are they supposed to do with a child who is so disruptive in class that it makes it impossible to teach the other 25 students???????

What do they do when a child can't keep his pants from continuosly falling to his Knees??????

What do they do when a child openly admits to being in a Gang,,,,,and uses this to intimidate others????????

Deena,,,,,,

A successful society must not Pander to this type of Culture,,,,this type of culture must be changed if these children want to have a chance at a NORMAL LIFE.

Where do these changes start???? At Home???? in their Neighborhoods??????? In their Communities????

Changes can only occurr when there are RULES, DISCIPLINE, ACCOUNTABILITY, PUNISHMENT, RESPONSIBILITY...

Deena,,,,Please quit blaming the "Great White Satan" for your communities Ills and roll up your sleaves and make changes that will Poitively affect these children....

It has more to do school adminstrations interpretation of NCLB and let's not forget political correctness. They will do anything to keep these kids in school even if it means not supporting the teachers or principals. I think most people who work in the trenches everyday would prefer support over money. I would just love for some board members, Grier and some central office employees to teach for one day in the middle and high schools in this town!!!!

Half of what goes on in these schools would have not been tolerated 10 years ago. Things have gotten totally out of control. And, yes, Buckmtn, Kirkpatrick was really on to something that would have been a vital solution instead of diluting the problem. And to think we have two more years of Dot Kearns makes me ill!

One other topic that needs to be addressed by this community is in-school suspensions. I can see the value of not sending disruptive students home because they will see it as a vacation and get farther behind in their school work (and may get in more trouble while out of school). However, they need to be out of the classroom so that those who are not being disruptive can learn. However, in-school suspensions are not being handled appropriately, at least not at some of the schools. Students at my local school on in-school suspension are taking naps and watching movies instead of being taught and "punished" (I know that is an politically incorrect word but I hope we all agree that there needs to be some consequences for inappropriate behavior). Then, when they return to the classroom, they are farther behind and not the least bit upset about the threat of being sent back to in-school suspension because it is like a little vacation. Also, it does not last all day, because the teacher in charge of in-school suspensions teaches classes in the morning so the teachers in the morning still have the disruptive students in their classes. So, my point is before a lot of time is spent on reducing suspensions, let's make sure an appropriate substitute punishment is in place.

Life according to Deena Part1.

If a white man/woman is caught influencing decisions for one's own benefit it is a crime and the person should lose his/her job.

If a Black man/woman is caught influencing decisions for one's own benefit it is a not a crime and if the person loses his/her job it is racism.

ALan Duncan is probably scared to reprimand Deena. After all he is a white male.

Life according to Deena PartII.

If a black child calls a teacher a MF and he/she is sent home this is racism.

If a white child calls a teacher a MF and he/she is sent home this is correct.

Just how many kids are we talking about? At the December 19, 2005 Board Meeting, Dr. Beacoates presented a report on suspensions. He was asked if he could identify repeat offenders and replied that he could not.

He was requested to gather some more data to try to identify repeat offenders ("frequent flyers") and to determine whether there appeared to be any racial influence in the suspensions (white teacher vs. minority student). Is anyone aware that he has reported back?

Are 80% of the suspensions caused by 20% of the offenders? Is there a circadian pattern to suspensions (most occuring in the morning or late afternoon)? Is there a breakdown of suspensions by cause (disrespect, threat, late to class, etc.)? Are there any statistics on race/gender of suspendor/suspendee?

It also seems to me that there is an awful lot of trash that needs to picked up around some schools along wth a few other community service projects that could be beneficial to a school.

We didn't have problems with discipline to speak of when I was in school. Disrespect a teacher or disrupt a class and it was off the see Tyson Jones who swung one heck of a mean paddle. You got bent over a stool, told to grab the bottom rung and he unleased a three inch wide board with holes drilled in it for the number of licks required to get your attention. If that failed then you were sent home for three days. If you continued in your disruptive manner then there was a place in the middle of the state called Reform School. You went there until you learned respect, aged out, or graduated. Political Correctness was not a problem in those days. Very few made repeat visits to Tyson's office. Those that did were on the road to drop-out city or reform school already. There was not time wasted with a few disruptive students when the majority were there to learn. Too bad political correctness has gotten in the way of education.

It was on the news last night that the assistant principal at Grimsley was attacked on campus by a former student with a knife. She ran for help. A resource officer caught the former student.

And they say we don't need resource officers????

What if he hadn't been nearby???

Jenifer/Morgan why didn't the News & Record report this attack???

I am a high school teacher in Guilford County. Before coming to GCS in 1999, I taught at an inner city school in Miami for ten years which made Andrews, Dudley and other locally impacted schools look like day cares in suburbia.

In addition to teaching in an inner city high school in Miami, I also worked with kids in the community outside the school environment. I invested a lot of time and effort into many kids lives, and I thoroughly enjoyed both my teaching career and my volunteer work.

Bottom line, I want to see students excel, and I especially want to see kids from disadvantaged backgrounds succeed. However, absolutely nothing will change until their parents and others get seriously involved in their lives and education and begin to hold them accountable for their grades and behavior. New programs and an innovative ideas are meaningless unless kids are taught and expected to take personal responsibility for their attitudes, decisions, and actions. If parents, community and church leaders and school board members continute to make excuses for them then they are destined for failure. I understand that many students have academic needs that are not being met and we need to make a commitment to them to do whatever it takes to ensure that they not only graduate from GCS with a diploma, but a quality education. However, students must be willing to put forth their maximum effort every single day and they must be willing to abide by the discipline guidelines in the school and in each of their classrooms. If they don't and they are suspended, then that is their choice and it's not the fault of teachers and administrators. If those who are so quick to blame everybody but the students (whatever their ethinicity) for high suspension and drop out rates really cared about these kids, they would sit them down, look them straight in the eye and tell them they need to accept responsibility for their lives. Then, they need to be willing to help provide the support, admonishment and discipline they need to succeed and achieve their goals.

You are not doing these children any favors by letting bad bahavior continue without consequences. Decent society will not tolerate this behavior in the world outside of school. You are setting them up to fail.

Employers will not tolerate these antics in the workplace. What type of job can these students get IF they graduate. What employer is going to put up with the horrible language, the fighting, the attitudes and pants that keep falling down?

Guilford County Schools boasts reducing the suspension rate. Is that something to be proud of children who are breaking the rules every day are allowed to continue under the guise of "cultural sensitivity"?

There needs to be a joint effort of "we are not taking this anymore" by the teachers and the administrators.

TERRINA, what are the latest efforts of the Safety Council with getting cameras on buses, support and protection for our teachers, administrators and students in school? These are public schools. It's a matter of "public safety".

Richard and ncnole,
that my friends if life accrding to Deena.

We ae all screwed while she is still on the board and "influencing" decisions.

"the group wants to see the number go down"

dah!

then teach your children how to behave

take responsibility for your own

quit making excuses

Last week I just happened to catch a program in which Kevin Johnson (retired basketball player for the Phoenix Suns) went back to the inner city Sacramento area and took over a high school. He got the community involved including the parents.

What was different about this program was he made the parents accountable. He told the parents your homework is to be aware of what courses your children need to graduate high school. He made them be a part of the process.

I agree you can put all the money you want into the community but until the parents become involved, nothing will change.

I am new here. Can anyone enlighten me on the Kirkpatrick solution?

Life according to Deena part III.

If the children in my school district start to succeed then I will not be able to play the victim.

Smith must fail!

No Life,

The children at Smith can get jobs in the constructin field; find a public official to live with; get minority contracts handed to them because of their live-ins influence and make money off the system at the expense of taxpayers.

Do you think the N&R will investigate Deenagate at all?
How can it stay silent?

http://www.petitiononline.com/mark0112/petition.html

If you havent signed this petition yet please do and pass on to friends and families.

Life

I doubt it. It will be swept under the carpet like so many other issues. Damage control m.o. will be put in place. I do think there will be more eyes watching now than ever of what contractors get awarded certain jobs.

Back on topic, with regard to students' bad behavior, each school should have its own school resource officer. You build it into your budget and contract with Guilford County Sheriff's Office and Greensboro Police. Even at the elementary school level, children begin to build a positive relationship with law enforcement and are encouraged at an early age to learn about lawful & unlawful behavior. Respect and disrespect. It might have a powerful influence on the rampant disregard for authority at some of our county's schools -- even the "flagship" schools. Something needs to be done, and SROs are just one piece of the puzzle. And it wouldn't be a bad idea for the SRO to make a daily visit to in-school suspension to have a short chat with the kids about how their decisions will affect their future. If they're not listening to their parents or school staff, maybe they'll listen to a man or woman in uniform who wants to reach out to them before it's too late.

Life according to Deena Part IV.

All SRO's white or black are racists.

When Deena's boyfriends company CoMor were doing renovations at Smith HS do you think they met up for lunch there?
How cosy.

C. Contracts for Additions and Renovations at Stokesdale Elementary
At the meeting of September 29, 2005, the Consent Agenda includes a recommendation to award contracts to Bar Construction Company for renovations and additions in the amount of $6,244,218 and to CoMor Corporation for technology construction in the amount of $149,533.06 at Stokesdale Elementary. Bids were scheduled to be received on June 7, 2005. The district did not receive sufficient bids to open under North Carolina’s three bid rule therefore, the project was re-advertised with a bid opening date of September 15, 2005. Eight companies submitted bids for the project.

CoMor Corporation of Greensboro, North Carolina submitted the lowest responsible, responsive technology bid of $149,533.06

Who votes on the consent agenda?

Nicely done Ncnole.

I believe that parents involvement in the child's upbringing are one of the key ingredients in the child's success at school and in life. It's unfortunate that the majority of poor and disadvantaged kids typically don't experience the parental involvement that other kids do.

Unfortunately, many of the less fortunate kids are the victims of a cultural exceptance of bad behavior and until this is ever corrected, we will still experience classroom stress.

Scarier still is cover article 'Dropout Nation' in the 4/17/06 edition of TIME where it's estimated that 30% of America's kids dropout of school. Until we get control of the classroom we will continue to see our competitive edge in the global economy lessen.

Lord Hear Our Prayers.

Maybe the time has come for Guilford County Schools to open an Orphanage,,,,to rescue the needy children from their irresponsible parents who could give a Rats' Ass about raising their kids....

No matter what a child is taught in school,,,if they go home to parents that don't care ,,,,they are on the road to failure.....

Some new borns should be taken from their parents at birth to ensure that they may stand a chance in life...

Some people should not be allowed to have children.....

This is an Equal Opportunity Statement,,,Rich, Poor, Black, White, Asian, Hispanic,,,it makes no difference,, if you are unable to raise the children that you brought into this world, then maybe the time has come to give them up to the Orphanage of Guilford County Schools.

Fix the Problem,

Hopefully a woman's choice will never be taken from her in matters such as the ability to make the decision in an unforeseen pregnancy, "Am I able to provide for this child, Am I emotionally capable of raising this child, Am I physically able to take care of this child."

I fear Bush and his bunch of right wing storm troopers is taking this privilege from our women. Hopefully in Nov 2006 the tide will turn and we'll return Congress to the Party of the People.

I propose that every member of the Community
Education Organization spend a full week disquised as a substitute teacher then come back with a proposal about how to handle kids that constantly disrupt the classroom.

They are only looking at the number of suspensions and not at the "reasons" the kids are suspended.

Riverboat Bob,

Thats all we need is another era, led by Left-Wing Extremist, to cure the ills of our Nation.

It sure does take a Village to raise a Child,,,,when the mom is a Crack Head,,,,or the Mom has her sixth child, but has never had a Job,,,,or Maury s' DNA test can't tell which of the 20 Dudes was the Daddy of her Child,,,,,

No Worries Folks,,,the Village will raise your child,,,just go on about your business and Hillary and Co. will save the day!!!!!

Seeing as though my HP area high was school was just evacuated due to a false fire alarm, let me be the first to challenge our beloved school board members to be subs for a day. Or our own Dr. Grier to come into the classroom for a day. Then I will sit down and give attention to whatever ideas they have for improving our schools. Until then, I'm about sick of the lip service. Business as usual cannot continue. And bad behavior cannot continue to be tolerated. The culture needs to be changed. And it starts at the top.

Part V.

What she said.

“It doesn’t get any better than being a white student in Guilford County and it doesn’t get any worse than being a black student,” .

What she should of said.

“It doesn’t get any better than being a black member of the Guilford County school board and it doesn’t get any worse than being a middle class student living in North High Point ,” she said.

The false accusations of Deena Hayes are just racial profiling.

I'mfordeena,

Have you got any real defenses for Deena's actions other than the standard race statements? Would you also explain how the information provided on her conflict of interest is racial profiling? If Marti
Sykes did the same thing as Deena, would it be racial profiling?

When you're inviting board members or Grier to teach for a day or a week, make sure they get assigned to teach a few high school "college prep" or "CP" classes. When I was in high school, "college bound" courses were for kids who didn't quite meet the level of "honors" courses but who still likely would be attending college. Here, "college prep" is just another feel-good label for "remedial." It's very misleading indeed.

Guess Deena hasn't talked to the students at SWH. A black student was the Homecoming Queen. Others are successful in academics. Others love their sports. I don't see them complaining about it being bad at all. Many share mutual friendships with white kids. Imagine that!

Now let's talk about the white kids in all our schools: the nerdy little white kid that gets picked on, or the gay white kid, or the fat scoppy white kid, the one with the hearing aid, or the white kid who doesn't have much money to buy "cool" clothes.

High school IS tough for many. This has always been. It's just harder in today's world where the tradtional family has gone to pot. It's not about "color". It's life for teens today.

On reducing suspensions and discipline....Frank is 100% correct. Let's put every community "leader" for reduced suspension subbing in the CP classes for 3 days, this includes the heads of Guilford County Alliance, the NAACP of High Point, certain school board members. Only then will we ever be able to discuss what is really happening in our schools today.

There are some cameras on buses, and there are "fake" cameras on buses so that kids do not know whether or not they are being taped.

The information I have is that if there is a chronic problem on a particular bus, that bus gets a real camera.

I would like to see cameras on every bus, and I will stay on that.

I also went to Johnson school in HP and noticed cameras there. They certainly do not need them there, but they have them because it is an odd building, but why can't we have more cameras in areas that are most likely to foster bad behavior? Money, money, but maybe we can get corporate donations, or have a huge party and raise money for cameras!

To clarify, the Community Educaation Organization does not believe students should be allowed to misbehave. They believe that there is a REASON behind all bad behavior. So why is a kid cussing out a teacher? We would like that kid to sit down with a counselor instead of an SRO officer.

Consider that it costs approximately $39.83 a day for public education and it costs about $168.00 a day for juvenile detention.

Then lets add the cost of an under-educated workforce and let's all listen for the sucking sound of all the community resources that we pay out to unemployment, crime, prisons, and social service agencies that support children who failed in school. It costs us all dearly.

The CEO does not want children to be able to disrupt class or disrespect teachers. THey in fact, want kids who disrupt to get MORE SCHOOL rather than less school. (THey get less when they are suspended. For many kids that is a welcome day off. But what if the deal is, "You misbehave and you are here after school for 2 hours and you also get to come to Saturday school." How 'bout more school, not less school?)

THe CEO wants to know why the kid is disruptive. Is it becuase they are 2 or 3 grade levels behind in reading and/or math? How would you act at school if you were that far behind? Wouldn't it be easier to be disruptive and be excused from class than have people know you are behind? And if you have a very unstable home life, shouldn't someone know about it and intervene? There are hundreds of social service agencies that are here to help people, but do kids even get the referrals? And are we addressing mental illness or brain disorders in the schools?

Did you know that there are brain disorders such as Conduct Disorder and Oppositional Defiant Disorder that will not respond to anything that can be addressed by a classroom teacher? Those students need Mental Health intervention. Are they getting it? We are helping kids now days who have ADD and ADHD, which are organic brain disorders. THese students used to be considered "trouble makers" and just having behavior problems, but now we know more/better.

So are we ready to take the next step and address mental health issues in school?

There is emperical data that suggests that if you create a culture and climate at a school that fosters and models Positive Behaviors, this will be sufficient to have 80% of students comply with the school rules. You then will have about 15% that are "At Risk" for bad behavior, which means they have some environmental issue like a bad home life,or they are behind academically and this can benefit from intervention. THen the other 5% have an organic brain disorder and really they should be designated as a special needs population.

There is now legislation pending to try to get the students who are chronically disruptive and repetitively suspended designated as Exceptional Children.

It is a fact that one bad apple can spoil the whole bunch. If there is one child with a mental health issue that is disruptive, it affects the whole class. If you study Interpersonal Neurobiology,(UCLA, Dr. Dan Siegel) you will find an explanation for that. I could expand on that, but this post is already way too long!

THe CEO wants kids to learn to read and do math at grade level. THey want the behavior issues addressed. They want their kids to be safe at school and they want the environment to be supportive. THey want their kids to get the best education possible.

THey do not want dangerous, dispruptive kids in the classrooms.

I find that very interesting about the "fake" cameras. I had e-mailed that idea to Dr. Grier suggesting that many months ago and told fake cameras would not work; they had to be "real". I am glad GCS apparently changed their minds and took me up on my suggestion. I was also told that we needed digital cameras, the cost of each and what they would cost. I had read in the newspaper since that time where Terry Grier did mention plans to get some cameras on buses.

At the same time, I had suggested corporate donations. (I think we had discussed this also, Terrina). It was shortly after GCS's campaign with the local car dealership to donate two-way radios for the buses. Reportedly, that campaign did not go as well as expected and I was told GCS paid for many of the radios. Also it was shortly after Hurricane Katrina so a lot of local corporate dollars had gone toward that effort.

I totally agree that there are businesses out there that could fund these cameras that need the tax write-off. I had written the school board and Dr. Grier and mentioned many of the benefits along with legal protection of documented video as to what is really happening on our buses, who is doing what to whom. Also there would be documented records if school bus drivers are mean to children. To me the cameras would show the true picture.

One of my school board e-mail responses was from Deena Hayes who told me we are not on the "same page" about cameras on buses. I hope the Community Education Organization can point out the benefits of having cameras.

I still believe firmly that cameras are necessary and could be a possible deterent to some of the incidences. The bus drivers in Winston-Salem were on the news around the same time commenting that they wanted them because of the many problems that had occurred on their buses; that it had become dangerous and things were getting out of hand. In other school districts, they have bus assistants to help with the discipline. Cameras would not cost as much as additional employees.

We need cameras in many of our schools too. I would think they are at some of our schools to record who is entering that doesn't belong on campus. The schools that have spread out campuses with a multitude of trailers are especially at risk to strangers coming on campus.

Terrina,

That's a great idea of two hours after school and Saturday schools. But where are you going to get the teachers to stay two extra hours for the same pay and to work on Saturdays?? Where would the money come from to pay for this? This on the heels of many teachers upset about their supplements being potentially cut. Most teachers t even like to stay for in school suspension or hall patrol.

Teachers now would just love to have a duty free lunch in elementary schools. Many would love to have a TA to help grade papers so they don't have to stay after school to do that. Others don't like keep all the statistical data and all the testing, etc. I doubt they would want to grade the extra papers, take more work home and work two extra hours a day.

I wouldn't think the counselors or principals would be willing to put in the extra time either. Would they even have the extra time?

I also like the idea of making a parent come to school, sit with the child and follow them all day which has been done elsewhere. However, you can't even get return phone calls or conferences with some parents so how would you get them to come to school for a few days to shadow their children.

To many parents, and this is not directed at minority parents, they use the schools as babysitters. Homework is never done - same kids all the time; parents send sick children with fevers to school; kids are sent without proper shoes for outdoor recess or a healthy snack. The needs are endless and teachers just can't meet every child's need.

Terrina,

One more point I forgot to make. I am all for more counselors in our schools and positive intervention. But it must start earlier than high school too.

Even good children can make bad choices. They can get in with "the wrong crowd", go with the moment and make regretful mistakes.

Children still need limits. They need rules in an orderly society. There have to be fair consequences across the board for all of our children.

I feel we still do need SRO's in our schools. They have their jobs to do. That has been proven time after time, incident after incident. These are "public" schools and there should be "public safety". There is "reckless endangerment". We should not put our teachers and principals in such situations.

It was reported on the evening news about a week ago that a former student pulled a knife on the assistant principal at Grimsley. She ran and the SRO caught the kid. What would have happened to that person if the SRO wasn't on campus?

We need cameras. We need uniforms at some schools to keep those who don't belong on campus out. We need photo ID badges.

Our teachers and staff need our support. The should have their safety needs met above all and also it would be nice to have some self-esteem from one's job and self-actualization. Our teachers are losing their starry eyes and "passion". They are leaving Guilford County and the profession because they can't keep fighting an uphill battle.

The are tired of screaming in the abyss and no one is hearing and answering their call for help.

Terrina,

What is the answer to dealing with the children that are stricken with the brain disorders or mental illness that you mention in the earlier post ??????????

Does putting them on a Bus and shipping them across town in the name of "Social Integration" cure their Ills ??????????

Is hiding these children among the masses and Hoping that osmosis will occurr,,, a rational way to deal with this type of child ????????

If our school system ignores the fact that such problems are in our schools,,,,will they go away???????

Terrina,

In High Point,,,,we have a School Board member by the name of Dot Kearns who is implementing these type of programs which over the years have totally ignored the problems that many of our school children have....

There has been a Busing plan put in place in High point,,,,,Switching children between Andrews and Southwest,,,once again with hopes of ignoring and hiding students that are screaming out for HELP.

Students,

Don't Look for Help from the current Administration,,,,,,Rich, Poor, Black, White, Asian, Hispanic,,,,you all are just a statistic that can be manipulated in a manner to hopefully make our Superintendent and Board look Successful.

Terrina,

Does the CEO think that Cross Town bussing will solve the Problems in the schools??????

If not,,,,Why is this backwards method still being used in High Point????

If they do believe in Bussing,,, then why not get the busses rolling between Dudley and Northwest?????

Terrina,

Help me Understand where You and the CEO stand on this Issue....

BA,in reply to your address to another poster: schools don't need a lot of mental health types in schools because 95% of them only talk in gobble-gook, are number crunchers and paper shufflers. Don't believe me ,look at the crumbling mental health system in your community and around the country.
What is needed is down to earth Social Workers with the ability to communicate with students and parents on their level so that the is no question to the meaning of their word when they say, ENOUGH OF THIS BULL, straighten up or out the door you go and it won't be on the streets. Same for you parent, get your act together, insure that the kid is in school , on time, and behaving or else you will get to spend some time in the lock up. The SWorker needs to get the backing of the Judges(courts) and they can because I have seen it happen. We had a judge here in WNC who did that very same thing with parents at the elementry school level and you would be surprised how quickly things turned around. I was present in court when he locked up one parent for failing to get her kids on the bus on time and in school on a regular basis.Kids I believe had over a 50% absentee rate. He told her to go to school with them and not show back up in his court again or else face jail time. 45 days later she and kids were back and 15 minutes later she was in jail. Talk about an effect on others in the court room.

Mental health types have their place but it ain't in schools. They are more suited to strict institutionalized settings where research and paper work are the norm. But then that sounds like the schools system under this current group of leaders. Sorry, I just had to throw that out. MH types are also to worried about ego issues and fear of bruising some little punks ego. Those disruptive ones need more than their ego bruised. They already have a big enough ego but unfortunatley it is the wrong flavor and it needs some dressing down or up however one seeks to look at it.

My take on what to do with disruptive kids? Isolate them from those who wish to learn until they get the picture that disruptive behavior is not acceptable. Reform schools and boot camps are part of the answer. Boot camps for parents would help the very young kids with disruptive behavior. When the parents learn how to parent then the kids won't be as apt to need such intervention. Any DSS folks out there reading? Get this. Stop removing kids from the home and start removing parents and you will see more sucess quicker than ever before.

BEWARE OF VIRUSES. DO NOT CLICK ON THE ABOVE PERSON'S ADDRESS. A SIMILAR SCREWY POST WAS POSTED YESTERDAY UNDER NAME "ABC".

SOMEONE MUST NOT LIKE SOME OF YOU. YOU MUST BE GETTING TOO CLOSE. THE TRUTH SOMETIMES HURTS. OUCH!

THIS POSTER IS BEING WATCHED.

Sorry Mr. P. Not you for "above address". E Donkey the virus poster has been removed.

Barbara Ann,

It's a shame that some teachers are little concerned about the challenges of what they were originally inspired to do. Teach and challenge the youth of tomorrow. Over the years the major concern, in my opinion, of the teacher's and their main union, the NEA, is pay and benefits with very little mention of classroom conditions.

Whatever happened to the teacher who was committed to his/her profession like the minister, with minimal pay but having enthusiastic fervor to teach our kids. Many of them are just there for the benefits with little consideration for the well being of the kids. In a nutshell many of them have become like most of us in the working world. Looking out for number 1.

Perhaps if the teachers with the most experience would not shirk their calling, teaching our youth without respect to social status, our poorer students wouldn't find themselves falling further and further behind the kids that were fortunate to have been born into a good and caring home. Our poorer students (minority schools) are typically taught by the new and inexperienced teachers while the older experienced and more capable teachers migrate to the more well to do school environments and the poor kids are left with the rookies. Oh the inequities of life.

Yea, I got forwarned Busted by another poster here but thanks anyway. My stuff is clean with all the virus and firewall gadgets our son put on this puter. I don't understand it all and don't try. He's the puter whiz in the family.

Riverboat, we have always had a group of students who despite all that a teacher can do refused to learn , was disruptive and wanted nothing more than to make so much trouble that they finally were kicked out of school. As far as I am concerned that should be the way it is today. Teachers, no matter how dedicated, with all the loads of paper work they now have to fill out and other junk assigned non-related to teaching, just like social workers at the state level, don't have the time nor the energy to put up with those who could care less. I have no compassion for those students and teachers sure as heck don't need to have to continue to put up with these who want nothing more than to check out. Let the system oblige them. When hades freezes over you will still have those that I just described and I don't care how much money you throw at the problem it ain't gonna be solved. In my experience it has only gotten worse instead of better despite the bleeding hearts and the money thrown at the situation.

BA you are also right on the point you made concerning having the parent come to school and spend the day with their kid. It works! However there are times when the parent becomes as hostile and disruptive as the kid, then there is no question of where the problem lies and here again a good down home tough SW can get things rolling in the right direction. Also a good court system helps. One that is dedicated to solving the problems instead of just slapping the kid on the wrist and letting them go. I have seen judges order the parent to go to school with the child and if they didn't they went to jail. That usually clears any question in the parents mind as to the seriousness of the situation and the determination of the system to get to the root of the problem.
As far as the "postive programs" go.
I have seen the "positive programs" in place in schools and 99% don't work. PPC was one that was attempted in one of the school in THomasville area some years ago, it was a disaster. It was also tried in several Virgina schools and failed there as well. I don't have much faith in "programs.
When the system stops trying to be so dang PC and gets down to the real root of the problem then we will see change and not until then.

Riverboat, reference to you comment "what happenned to".
I am not a teacher but what happenned is that their salary is just not enough anymore.
Taking a second and a third job too in some cases makes you tend to forget why you are there. Its a question of survival for some.
Its easy to criticise isnt it!

Busted,

Mr. Produce is spreading viruses? Hard to believe.

Upthecreek,

Welcome to the real world.

Real wages have been static for most of us for the last 4 years, our healthcare costs have skyrocketed (41% of Americans are without healthcare plans), employers are abandoning offering pension plans, outsourcing of jobs is rampant, our manufacturing base is dwindling, illegal immigrants are taking jobs from our unskilled labor force, and you're complaining that one of the most secure jobs in America, teaching, with a secure retirement and healthcare benefit base, might necessitate a part time job to make ends meet.

You evidently didn't read River, It is not me but someone who was removed for spreading virus. Go back and read again.

Produce, evidently not, my apologies.

do not click on above address from "edonkey" - beware of viruses

RBB,

Apparently you did not read the results of last year's teacher survey nor are you in the schools on a weekly basis to hear comments and complaints of teachers and actually see what really goes on day-to-day in our schools.

One of the main issues mentioned in the survey was more support for teachers in the classroom. The main issue was NOT pay. It was job satisfaction.

If teacher were only looking our for "Number 1" many would have been long gone.

Teachers either go into this because they do want to teach and help children. There are others who go into because, frankly, they couldn't make it in the "real" world nor could they find a job with their degree in another field that would pay as much, i.e. a liberal arts degree. It is not for the pay. For many, it is because they feel it is a flexible job they could do, be home when their children are home and contribute to the family income. For others they love to teach. Problem is many aren't able to "teach" because of all the discipline issues and constant disruptions, and kids knowing they have no consequences.

I feel that many teachers, ministers, firemen, policemen hear the "call" to serve. Ministers, firemen and policmen all have "back-up".

The idealistic world one learns in college is not however the harsh reality of the real classroom, which unfortunately reflects today's society - lack of traditional families, lack of traditional family values, lack of parental involvement or concern in many cases.

Take elementary school, for example (not even talking about the major issues of violence at the high school level and the adolescent "attitudes"). Here is an example of what you might see in a typical 4th grade class (and this is at a "good" school):

-29 kids in a class
-all are on different learning levels
-all have different IQs
-a portion have continued to be socially passed -
one child cannot even get 3 math problems correct out of 30 on questions about cups, pints and gallons (this is review for EOG; they learn in 3rd grade plus metric system)
-you have no assistant
-one child is a diabetic
-another may be on "meds" for mood disorder
-some continually disrupt the class
-others are still learning English
-many could use some tutors
-others have special needs - slow learners, fast learners, ESL - kids come and go for individual "special" during the day - you have to adjust your learning schedule to make sure all 29 are included for a spelling test, etc.
-you watch 29 kids on the playground with no assistant; there is a "mulch throwing" incident among 4 children; they get a time out and you still have the others to watch at the same time

Question: Would you put your child in a day care at a 29:1 ratio of kids to adults knowing that 1/4 of the kids may have "special needs" - medical or behavior issues and consider this adequate supervision?
-you gulp you lunch in the same room as the kids - having to make sure they are still doing okay at lunch

These are just some of the issues. Veteran teacher friends of mine say kindergarten used to be fun. Now there are so many records that need to be kept, statistics that need to be done; for other elementary teachers it is testing, testing, testing and teaching the test.

Teachers go into the profession with good intentions but simply burn out. What is worse many who can't find or do other jobs stay because they may need the benefits or their retirement and take it out their frustrations on the children.

I pray all the time for our teachers. I don't see how many could do this day after day after day with the endless issue they must deal with.

To me with subbing (my "paid" volunteer job), it is the pure fun of real teaching and trying to make a difference in someone's life. Kind of like you "played school" when you were young. Getting to put stickers on papers, trying to make a lesson interesting, doing learning games, talking to the kids. I don't have to do all the evaluations, re-evaluations, go to the many meetings, have parent conferences, have parents cussing at you on the phone, etc.

Now when you are talking high school and teachers taking verbal abuse or being hit by students, that is a whole other issue. No one should have to take this disrespect and abuse. To me, if they stay, they are foolish.

BA,

It's not necessary to write an epistle every time you respond.

That's my style.

I am making up for lost time.

If you get bored, just skip ahead or don't read.

Heard there was a gun brought to Central today. Does that student get back in?

I thought bringing a gun was an automactic 365 day suspension. Does anyone know for sure?

Barbara Ann,

By replacing 'teachers' with 'ordinary workers' in your epistles you will depict what most people deal with on an every day basis in our workforce.

No respect, overworked, not fun anymore, pressure, uncertainty, not enough money, second jobs, quickie lunches, hate this place, little time for my kids, office politics, and on and on and on.

Let me tell you the average working joe in America ain't enjoying life as much either.

I have to agree with Barbara Ann. We deserve the best for our children.

Well to get the "best" for our kids are you ready to open up your pocket book, expect a major increase in property taxes, in order to attract the best, 'cause you aren't gonna attract the best with salaries starting at around 30thou annual.