News-Record.com

I expect most of the problems are the 'run of the mill construction problem.' However, there needs to be more overview of these projects and the vendors should not be paid in full until these things are fixed. The Dudley project has gone way over budget and taken too much time, but it is hardly the only one that is in this shape. It seems like some of the things like the auto shop are not within the scope of the project. Maybe it was one of the things that was cut to try to keep the cost down. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

I wonder how much money will be taken from the Jamestown Middle School bond fund to pay for additional work at Dudley.

Run-of-the-mill blunders in construction occur when you have run-of-the-mill people managing the projects. Competent managers properly planning projects and properly supervising them lead to on-budget, on-time, and done-right projects. Who is responsible here in Guilford County? Do we pay the archirect or general contractor to plan and supervise these projects? If so, we should expect them to make them right. If not, then we need to have heads roll on Eugene St. And, the head roller should be Terry Grier. If the school board and taxpayers allow him to pass blame for this mess, which is the norm in this district, then shame on us all. I suppose that this won't have any impact upon his salary increase and bonus this year will it?

And as added fun, I note in today's edition that the county commisisoners will likely vote to increase our property taxes so that they can fall over themselves giving Terry Grier more money to waste next year, like $20 million. Yikes! when will this madness stop?

Grier is ultimately responsible.
Fire him now!

What is the Problem with the new cafeteria at Southwest High School????????

It appears that the multi-million dollar administrative staff has a hard time following written instructions. At first I had a hard time understanding how a staff of PhD's could bungle a federal grant application a couple of years ago....

Well how hard can it be to plant the correct grass species? Maybe the $120K Statistician can tell the taxpayers what the odds are of such a mistake at a school that is failing???

I guess the immediate problem is that Dudley has a lawn that needs to be ripped up. Let me check with one of my mountain neighbors that has a goat farm....

I say tazer their *(swear word deleted) every time they're over budget or make a mistake. That means Grier , the BOE, and whoever is the staff infection/person responsible for wasting taxpayer dollars!

That might shock them all back to reality!

I will personally fund the cost of recharging for future shocks!!!!

I find it intereting that Southwest parents were unfairly called racists. Speakers are now saying the Dudley construction issue is a "race" issue. I wonder how the BOE feels about this.

In June 2003, Deena Hayes vowed to kill the 2003 Bond Referendum and that the black community would not support it. From the recent article from the minority contractors representative yesterday, it appears that a deal was made to get the black community voter support for the bond referendum in exchange for more bid business for CoMor. Indeed, the article clearly stated that Deena Hayes and Lambert, the owner of CoMor, were working together. As we have since learned, Deena Hayes is married to a manager of CoMor or lives with him and co-owns the home together. This just doesn't pass the smell test. Is this an ethics violation?

http://greensboro.rhinotimes.com/archives/062603/story02.html

Stormy,

Where there is Smoke, There is Fire......

General, that is not smoke. Its poop!

POOP!
POOP!
POOP!

It bloody Stinks!

Will the News-Record address this situation or just continue to ignore it? Why do they give Deena Hayes a pass on this issue? She may be perfectly innocent, but one would expect the local news media to look into the matter and report on it. They do for every other scandal that occurs in Greensboro, such as the David Wray and Homestead incidents.

No Tasers.
No discipline
No education.

=

More low performing disadvantaged children.
More complaints of discrimination.
More taking advantage!

The N&R probably has looked at the details of the bid matter and realize there's no issue.

Sounds to me like the Black community is flexing it's political muscle in the matter of some of their people getting an opportunity to get some of the public largesse that they've been denied for such a long time.

In our community the Black's represent a political force that for some is disconcerting in light of the fact that the Establishment has been shaken up and a new political force is at front stage. They appear to have a cohesive voice and have vigorous representation on all of the Councils, County as well as City. White man ain't in control like he used to be in Guilford Cty and this is unsettling many people who are now faced with a group that now want their piece of the pie. Could Deena & her friend/husband/special squeeze become the first Black Kourys in our community?

That's politics 101, baby, through and through....I delivered, so where's mine and when do I gets it.

I love this country.

Could someone tell me why no staff at Dudley was present for the discussion on the building?

Don't you think the principal should have been there?

These are overruns that most major projects experience. Nothing sinister happening here, just typical aggravating things that occur at very complex construction endeavors.

One other thing, it ain't B J Barnes' county anymore.

Skip A. engineered a political machine that has unseated B J's power base in Guilford County politics.

Democracy is a great thing.

So Bubba,

the whites in power have been stealing from "the people" for years and now its time for Black community to take over? Bubba, its not white people or the black community that wins. The only winners are the currupt people in power. Black or white these people need to be investigated and punished. In this case the N&R needs to investigate the obvious truth behind Deena's perpetuation of poor results at Smith and her business connections with CoMor.

"The N&R probably has looked at the details of the bid matter and realize there's no issue."

OK, Bubba, if they have looked at it, then they could say as much and let their readers know that, and how they arrived at that decision. They owe that much to their readers, don't they? No, I don't think that this is the answer. The answer is that their is a muzzle on in regard to this matter. The only question is who placed the muzzle?

Overrruns do occur, and they seem to be most prevalent in GCS. Why do you think that is? It's a fact that Forsyth Schools routinely completes projects at 1/2 the cost of GCS. Seems like a lot of our taxes are being wasted. Can you say bye-bye to the next bond referendum? I can.

Bubba,

One other thing. I, like many others that post here, have no problem whatsoever with members of the black community getting their fair share of the project business in the schools. That is only right. But, when they or any other members of this community get the business in nefarious ways, it is not right and they should pay the price for doing so.

Deena Hayes is an elected official and as part of serving in that office, she has an obligation to "all" members of this county, not just her district. She and all other elected officials must be above reproach in their business affairs. GCS' conflict of interest policy clearly states that members have to avoid even an appearance of conflict of interest. It's safe to say that an "appearance" of a conflict exists in this case, whether you and the News-Record want to see it or not. An investigation of this matter needs to be done to determine, one way or the other, if there are irregularities. Perhaps, the SBI needs to be alerted to launch an investigation.

Deena Hayes has presided over the Smith school district for several years now. The school is scores are worse then when she came in.
Her own personal wealth however has increased quite considerably. She does very well in her nice Lexus. I wish I could afford one.

Recently I heard that the black architect whose firm is out of Charlotte lost a law suit for some work they did at Central Carolina University, Durham. It was in Saturday's paper. It seems there was a major problem with mold and the HVAC system.

Now this architect happens to have the same last name as the firm that designed Dudley's renovation. I read that was a black architect out of Charlotte.

Speakers at the BOE have said this was a "race" issue at Dudley. How could this be if the architect who designed this system is black.

Sure seems more like "politics" and who wanted this black architect hired in the first place. This issue needs further investigation, especially if this is the same architect who just lost the law suit in Durham.

The architect for Dudley was Harvey Gantt, former mayor of Charlotte. He ran for a state position (senator?) but don't think he won.. this was probably 12 or more years ago.

For those that don't know, initially Dudley was slated to be torn down and a new building was to be put up, but the community (rightfully so) lobbied to keep the historical building and make improvements and additions. The budget was $25 million, over $31 million was spent.

Debora,

You may be right that it was a good decision to renovate Dudley rather than rebuild. If it is going to cost $42 million to bulld Northern, even at $31 million, we saved $11 million. I still don't understand why it costs GCS twice as much to build facilities as Forsyth County. You would think that the taxpayers would be raising a ruccus over this misuse of their tax dollars.

Of course, $31 million may not be the end of the costs as I hear it. Does anyone believe that we won't spend another $4-5 million there?

Part of the difference is that Northern had to have septic and water-- no city utilities. Also everything in construction has gone up- so the difference is not as great as it sounds. I believe the site work and utilites are more than $5 million of the cost.

I expect there will be more money spent on Dudley, some to correct problems that should not have either been signed off. Other money will be spent on things that were out side the scope of the project so as not to seem prejudice. If enough of the black community raises cane, then things will happen. I want the project to be complete and working. I do not want new projects to be undertaken.

Hmmmm...former mayor of Charlotte. So was the Dudley job given to this particular black architect because of his political connections?

Debora,

How do you explain that Forsyth Schools built two new high schools that were funded in 2003 at the same time as Northern, and they were both built for $24 million each? Both of them are nice schools, built on-time and on-budget, and designed for 1,200 students, just as Northern now estimated at $41 million? If you check, you'll see that Forsyth always gets it done for 1/2 of what it costs in GCS. Both schools have been in use this entire year while Northern is still being built. You don't think that it is the leadership there that makes the difference do you? The apathy is deafening in Guilford.

Competence vs.
Incompetence.

Life,

Incompetence only begins tko describe the problem.

Reasons why costs may be higher in some of the projects vs Forsyth.
1) Land acquisition costs may be higher for the properties in Guilford vs Forsyth.
2) Someone raised the issue of water well development instead of tapping into established sources.
3) Ingress & egress traffic pattern changes. Widening of or new roads as a result of new construction.
4) Perhaps Deena's favorite squeeze builds a better structure than they do in Forsyth. Just joking.
5) And on, and on.

There could be a myriad of reasons why the contract prices are different. After all, we're not building cars so it's difficult to make an apples to apples comparison here.

Most of us don't consider that it's more than just mortar and bricks that go into a project but infrastructure changes and many other items to numerous to list.

I might also add, renovating an existing structure can be fraught with unforeseen minefields which can make the cost to escalate rapidly.

I don't have any idea why Forsyth can builder quicker and faster. I would love to know, how do you go about comparing. Is there somewhere online that has the budgets etc?

Debora,

Go to Forsyth Schools' website. That's where I got my information.

Bubba, your excuses for GCS are pitiful. I'd like to see some hard data that shows that those items you listed account for $17 million more to build a school. If you want to defend GCS's incompentence, then give us hard data that supports it rather than your usual b.s. For openers, we know that GCS had to make Northern a "green" school and that was millions added.

I think that you will find that Forsyth Schools is committed to building schools at-budget and on-time, because they know that future bonds are at risk if they handle like GCS. Our school board has kissed away any bond in the foreseeable future with this incompetence at NOrtern and Dudley.

Bubba, the way you are always 100% for what goes on at GCS, you either work there or your a board member.

Thanks Stormy,
I think that the BOE team that picks the architects have a part in this blame. If you hirer an architect whose job is design a building for 1200 kids that cost X amount and then the bid is 35% over, the architect should be fired. Instead you have to delete things. The scope of the project should be in the contract(ie. includes stadium, concession stand, room for 1200, etc)-- the design should fit the cost not the cost manipulating the design.

Debora,

If I am not mistaken, Northern was budgeted to be completed at $27 million. At $27 million planned cost, it would not have been too far out of line with Forsyth's $24 million for their two schools. That would have taken into consideration differences in land costs and such as that should have been known at the time it was proposed. So, that leaves us with an increased cost of $14 million over budgeted cost.

Now, since GCS and Forsyth started at the same time (2003 bond), shouldn't they both have been able to complete the projects at budget if they both managed the projects properly? Forsyth's two schools were completed on-time and on-budget, while Northern still is ongoing, and who's to say that it will be completed at $41 million? If anyone thinks that Forsyth shortchanged these schools in any way, go take a look at them. They are very nicely done. As far as managing multiple projects at the same time, consider that they built two schools while GCS was stuggling to build one, and stil haven't finished it. There is more to the story than simple incompetence. I like the way that Forsyth uses taxpayer dollars much more effectivley than GCS.

Our school board needs to get serious about doing its job of oversight of the Terry Grier and the district, rather than justifying every shortcoming and mistake that is made. It's not their role to prop them up all of the time. It's their job to ask hard questions on behalf of the citizens that they represent. Who works for whom here? The school board doesn't seem to know.

Not trying to play Devil's Advocate, but consider this....

GC did have multiple projects going on at the same time. Many were major school additions: Florence Elementary, Northeast HS, Southwest HS....Progress reports where shown at the last board meeting.

How many projects other than the two high schools was Forsyth working on at the same time? What was the cost of the raw land? These projects where bid out at a time when overall construction costs were less.

The expense of unforeseen site work was part of the increased overall cost at Northern. Oftentimes this is not predictable. By the time GC did get around to bidding Northern construction costs had gone up. Should they have hired more project managers and started all the GC projects at the same time? Would GC be capable of handling that amount of work all at once?

Think about this,

Well, according to their website, this is what Forsyth had/has going on. It looks pretty challenging to me, but if you want to give GCS a pass for its incompetence, I won't stop you. It's your tax dollars as much as mine, but I don't buy the excuses continually given by GCS for its inadequacies. You either get it done or you don't. In the case of GCS under Terry Grier and out school board, they don't.

Active and Completed Projects
Contracting Opportunities | Bond Information and Schedule

Carver High School Renovation and Addition
Construction Costs: $7,254,000
Under Construction: Completed
Edwin Bouldin, Architects, P.A. – (336) 725-5386

Downtown Elementary School Repairs
Construction Cost: $920,000
Under Construction: Completed
Sutton & Kennerly Engineering - (336) 855-0993

East Forsyth High School Asbestos Abatement Project
Construction Costs: $14,780.00
Under Construction: Completed
Sutton-Kennerly & Associates – (336) 855-0993

East Forsyth High School Roof Replacement Project
Construction Costs: $522,000.00
Under Construction: Completed
Sutton-Kennerly & Associates – (336) 855-0993

East Forsyth High School Renovation and Addition
Construction Costs: $7,705,679
Under Construction: Completion September 1, 2006
Edwin Boudlin, Architects, P. A. – (336) 725-5386

Glenn High School Renovation and Addition
Construction Costs: Bid May 2005
Peterson Gordon Architects– (336) 922-1801

Mt. Tabor and Parkland High School Power &Technology Upgrade
Construction Costs: $596.000
Under Construction: Completion Fall, 2005
Bill Robinson Engineering – (336) 765-8780

New East Forsyth Middle School
Construction Costs: $7,988,203.00
Under Construction: Completion Fall, 2004
Peterson/Gordon Architecture – (336) 922-1801

Mt. Tabor High School Addition and Improvements
Construction Costs: $5,521,226
Under Construction: Completed
Thomas H. Hughes Architecture – (336) 722-4447

New Simon G. Atkins Academic & Technology High School
Construction Costs: $17,548,162.00
Under Construction: Completion August, 2005
Walter Robbs Callahan & Pierce - (336) 725-1371

New Ronald Wilson Reagan High School
Construction Costs: $18,482,173.00
Under Cosntruction: Completion August, 2005
Walter Robbs Callahan & Pierce - (336) 725-1371

New Whitaker Elementary School
Construction Costs: $6,396,792.00
Under Construction: Completed
Ersoy & Associates - (336) 725-1361

Parkland High School Renovation and Addition
Construction Costs: $5,865,455
Under Construction: Completion Spring, 2007
Architectural Design Associates – (336) 724-7311

Contracting Opportunities
Active and Completed Projects | Bond Information and Schedule

Mineral Springs Elementary School
Approximately 40,000 sq. ft. Renovations
Projected Plans Available: Summer 2005
Projected Bid Date: Summer 2005
W. R. Watkins Architecture - (336) 777-3497

Mineral Springs Middle School
Approximately 75,000 sq. ft. Renovations
Projected Plans Available: Summer 2005
Projected Bid Date: Summer 2005
W. R. Watkins Architecture - (336) 777-3497

North Forsyth High School
Approximately 10,000 sq. ft. Addition and Improvements
Projected Plans Available: 2006 Projected Bid Date: 2006
Trinity Architecture & Planning, Inc. - (336) 777-1646

West Forsyth High School
Approximately 12,000 sq. ft. Addition and Improvements
Projected Plans Available: 2006 Projected Bid Date: 2006
David E. Gall, Architect - (336) 773-1213

Reynolds High School
Approximately 5,000 sq. ft. Addition
Projected Plans Available: 2006 Projected Bid Date: 2006
Ersoy & Associates, P.A. - (336) 725-1361

The price is high because contractors don't like working for Guilford County. They didn't like Michael Preddy. They didn't like E. J. Deering. And, although Joe Hill is a super nice guy, they don't like him. One of the reasons is that the BOE does not play fair. For Colfax, (I think), the construction group was 21 days late in delivering the permits for construction. Did they give the contractor 21 days more. No! This is not fair. Theres a big claim on building Dudley. What's the BOE response, it is all your fault and we arn't paying anything. Talk to contractors, they don't like working for BOE in Guilford County. This costs us millions.

Think about this,

What was the cost of the raw land for Northern? How much did the unforeseen site work add to the cost at Northern?

Bottom line, GCS has to do a better job as the steward of our tax dollars. Perhaps, if they can;t build schools cheaper than this, they need to consider alternative buildings. Besides, Terry Grier said that 10 years from now, schools wil be in museums and malls. If this is true, why are we spending al of these millions for buildings that won't be used? If our schools will be virtual, then let's stop building and put the money into teachers that can make a difference.