News-Record.com

Jennifer,

Is the News-Record planning on ignoring the conflict of interest issue with Deena Hayes, CoMor, and the minority contractors? Why has the News-Record not printed one iota on the subject other than giving the representative a platform this week to defend the matter and launch an attack on those that question it? Any investigation of this matter being planned? Is the News-Record not allowed to discuss this matter, whether it is a conflict or not?

Despite all those National Board Certified teachers, the AP noted today that NC is among several states in danger of losing federal aid because not enough of its teachers are "highly qualified" (that means, certified to the level of a basic B.A. or B.S.).

Something's not adding up here.

Jennifer,

Is Sanders the guy that has our children's personal information without our knowledge courteous of GCS?

Here is what I have noticed in some schools this past month.

At one school a teacher sits behind the desk and tells the kids to look in the book and do a worksheet. When they have a question, the teacher says, "It's in the book." and sits back down. This same classroom is very loud. Kids are socializing and brushing their hair, or doing nothing, or moving all around the room. Whether the students finish the worksheet or not is apparently not a big concern.

Then in another school, a teacher says, "We are going to do a work sheet, but I want you to get into groups of four, and work on this together."

In the first class I observe kids that are confused or flat bored. THe class is disruptive, the kids are loud, the teacher is disengaged... and I do not see any learning going on. I also do not see that anyone would complain if this were the case.

In the other classroom, I sense the pressure the teacher has to get the students up to speed and to make sure they know the material. You can tell that the teacher is invested in the kids learning the material. The teacher huvers around the kids and answers questions.

I do not think this has anything to do with whether or not the teacher has a national certification. In fact, the students in the classes that I observed were from a different racial mix, and different socio-economic status.

So what do you think of this? We all talk about having high expectations for all students. But what if the truth is, at many of our schools that are highly impacted by poverty, the teachers, (certified or not) just coast through their day because they can? And at the end of the year, the scores are low, but hey, they are poor kids, so what do you expect?

I know this may be very politically incorrect of me to put this out there. But with the state of affairs in our schools, I am willing to be blunt and honest.

We cannot afford to let this many kids slip through the holes in our schools. And we cannot blame the BOE and the GCS administration for everything. THis is a public school system and the public is the consumer. It is time for a partnership here that has not been seen before.

I know it is frustrating, and overwhelming at times, but we all have to come to the table for all kids here.

And I want to be clear that I am not "Anti-Teacher", but I am "Anti-Bad Teacher". And if you are a teacher in Guilford County schools and you believe that poor children or children of color cannot learn, and do not deserve your extra efforts, please quit. I am sure there is a job out there that you would enjoy more anyway.

Terrina,

This type of situation happens in ALL schools, not just poverty areas. There are good teachers; there are incompetent teachers; there are teachers who are just waiting to retire and are burned out; there are teachers who can't quit and do anything else; there are teachers who don't feel their input is valued so in many ways they have "given" up - their passion for teaching is gone, but they still need an income to support their families.

There are children of ALL races that have different IQ's, abilities, special learning problems, medical conditions, social issues, behavorial problems, cultural differences. These issues cross all race lines.

I heard an elementary school teacher the other day say, "until they start measuring IQs and considering this, a "value added" system is not fair. We don't get the "same" children each year so the "test subject" changes. I am not taking responsbility when every child has different levels of ability and the system continues to pass those who aren't making grade level."

Now I don't understand all the ins and outs of value added, but I would think in any measuring system, you must consider the intelligence level of a child. We have children in kindergarten who can't perform. Some are held back and even after their second year, there isn't much improvement. However, there are some parents who don't want their kids "labeled" so they won't allow them to be "tested". What do you do then? Keep passing these children that teachers know have learning or developmental problems?

Many teachers wonder why do they even have the EOGs and Gateways if children who aren't at grade level are continually passed to the next level. There is pressure to not fail kids, but in reality these are the very children who are "left behind" - not at grade level but in what they are learning because they are not learning.

Most teachers feel like their hands are tied behind their backs when it comes to issues of discipline. Teachers want support in this. In many situations, especially, with the older children and teens, the students have the upper hand and they know it. Go sit in some CP classes in a high school for a week (not honor or AL classes) and observe what you see. Try a few different schools. Let us know what you find. I would start with schools that have been in the news for struggling - perhaps Central, Smith, Andrews.

I have a friend who teachers at GTCC who teaches students getting their GED. She had a 19 year old who reads at 2nd grade level. Now how in the world was that allowed? If he is still at 2nd grade reading level, he was failed long ago and by how many years in the system? How many different teachers? They could not all have been bad teachers.

It has to start in elementary school. You can't blame teachers for everything when all children do have different learning abilities. Every child is not going to be a doctor, lawyer or computer analyst. Every child does not want to go to college. But every child should be given every opportunity to learn to the best of their individual level of ability. Every child should at least be prepared to enter the work force when they get out of high school. Students should not get to the level of frustration where they want to drop out.

Terrina,

I read your post several times, and it appears that you have identified some problems, but didn't identify any solutions. If we've got alot of bad teachers, whose at fault and what's to be done?

Value-added has been explained to me that each student has a value score from last years EOG (perhaps even the first standardized test given in Sept of that year)-- then the growth or lack there of at the end of the year EOG shows how much growth each student has.

Even children with leaning disabilities, special needs etc can and should show growth. A year's growth is 'X' amount. A child that enters 5th grade on a third grade level, and shows growth to 4.5 grade level= 1.5 years growth. If that same teacher takes a child that is already at 5.5 and ends with 5.7 only shows 2 months worth of growth. It would seem that this teacher works best with children that need remedial help, however if you look deeper, maybe they ignored the 2nd child to pore their time into the first child. Many ways to evaluate this data

Terrina, you are not being controversial. Just honest.
This sort of attitude was evident in the audits that were made of Central, Smith and Dudley.

Debora,

Thank you for explaining value added. But as you mentioned there are many ways to analyze this data. Also many factors influence at what pace a child is learning.

To anyone, why, for instance, is a teacher to blame when she has 29 kids in a class and no assistant. (This is above the state level, but of course you notify Raleigh and this is waivered.) For example, you have a 4th grade class with a few kids who have some medical issues, others behavioral issues, all at different IQs. You must watch one child closely because they are a diabetic or asthmatic, a few others get in a fight, several are very slow learners, etc. - what level do you teach to? Then you have student who continually NEVER do their homework, are tardy most days (one because they are back and forth between the homes of their divorced parents - legit reasons). Which child's needs do you address first? In value added a child may be in a classroom one year with 20 students in a class and a teacher's assistant and parents tutoring. The next year this SAME child could be in a class of 29 with no TA, and very limited parental volunteers, and a few very disruptive student. Each year is different. Ask any parent.

Terrina and Truth,

I don't disagree that there are incompetent teachers out there (and others simply waiting to retire), but we also have a severe shortage of math teachers and science teachers. My daughter had a biology teacher who had never taught biology before so she just read the text and taught herself. But where and how do you get the good math teachers? We are continually losing teachers because of discipline issues in the classroom. Teachers are tired of repeat offenders who return to their class with no consequences. Sometimes you hire the teachers you can in the beginning because these are the ones willing to come.

If a student reaches high school and is still reading at elementary school levels, how do you expect a high school teacher to be able to explain certain lessons if the student has no grasp of basic high school vocabulary? Is a science teacher, for example, to stop teaching science and teach a student to read? She can't possibly do it all without letting other students suffer.

The best suggestion I have heard is to get the struggling high school students into remedial programs for reading. Seemed from Joe S's last SB speech, he seems to think reading is a key factor to the success of our students.

To partly answer Stormy's question "what do you do". A few board meetings ago when the board was discussing Dudley, the discussion talked about getting rid of teachers before who were not competent but because they were "popular" parents complained. So it gets very political. When you start firing the popular teachers, knowing they aren't good teachers, and the political pressure from the black community starts, who is to blame?

You need the support of the School Board to start getting rid of teachers with tenure who aren't cutting it. I believe Amos was in support of looking at who are the successful teachers and who are not.

Terrina, Barbara Ann, Debora, Truth

We live in a world where everything is important. This means nothing is important. We want every child to be well rounded. Exposures to drama, 2nd languages, etc. at an early age. We will not admit that some things are more important than others.

Question. Why would a student in training choose High School math when she can make the same amount teaching Health and Phys Ed. Everybody getting paid the same amount, drives people away from the challenging jobs.

People going into teaching know what is going on. Why teach at-risk kids when there are jobs available at Summerfield and Stokesdale? The fact is a teacher last longer and gets more satisfaction teaching above average kids. They suspect or know that the risks outweigh the rewards at low performing schools.

We do have a lot of bad teachers. But keep in mind the following:

Many colleges do an awful job in preparing teachers for the classroom environment.

Many principals are unable or unwilling to help a teacher who not effective.

The amount of money devoted to first class training is very iadequate.

Rookie teachers get almost no training before they take up their first job.

Often times, teachers are flustrated by lack of basic tools (copy paper). No company I know of gives their employees a hassel on the small stuff.

The teacher's unions will not permit the system to order teachers to take training in the summer. So, often, the teachers that need it the most, cannot or will not embrace training.

We cannot move a teacher without her consent (there are a few exceptions). Sometimes a teacher neeeds a new environment but does not know it and refuses any attemp by management to provide one. They do not trust the principal or the central office.

We have vacancies now, we simply cannot hire enough teachers to replace all of the ineffective ones. We can't give up on all of them. We must provide better training.

Joe,

Many good points mentioned.

In conclusion my main point is successive learning involves MANY factors. It takes a good teacher; a supportive parent - one who makes his child do their homework, provides them with basic tools - pencils, books, good nutrition, a good night's sleep, etc - a parent who cuts the TV off; a school environment conducive to learning where rules and discipline are enforced for all students; consideration for a child's natural ability - his IQ - not expecting the same results from every child because with different levels of ability, it simply is impossible.

We can't blame all kids who fail on bad teachers. They don't have the same teachers every year. A student must take responsibility for his behavior and be willing to put in the effort to learn. There are also parents who never come to school for a conference or return a phone call. Once again, a lot of that depends on parents and a student's home environment. You can't blame the teachers for this. They can't wear all hats and be social workers too.

On a similar note, there are some teachers that no matter how much money you spend on training, they just don't "get it". If year after year their records show this then they should be cut lose. But at that point, it can get political. So you are back to square one.

Joe,
Many excellent points-- here are some further thoughts--
Most people get a degree and go to work without further training, year after year. Yes there are many opportunities for advanced classes, but they are not necessary in many cases.

I agree that the teachers union gets in the way sometimes.

I also agree that most teachers would rather teach at a 'good' school instead of a challenging school- however most say in the polls that money is not the answer. Safe working conditions and support from administration are two of the most important factors.

Anyway, Mission Possible is probably a moot point with the CC only proposing $15M increase and the board asked for more than $20-- something will have to give. The state is proposing 8% raise for teachers and 4% for classifieds, Sharon only had 5 and 2% raises calculated in her budget. You are the number man, no way we can hirer 31 foreign language teachers, staff Smith and HP Central middle schools, pay 8%, 4% and 20% increase in fuel with $15M

With an 8% raise, the additional $1M in supplement increase does not seem to be needed. The state is stepping up to the bat so local resources won't be so tasked. Mission Possible should be scaled down to High Schools and Middle Schools only. At a later date, we might need to include Elementary Schools.

I can empathize with Terrina. The discipline problems I have in my so-called honors class are outrageous. There is very little learning going on and it is downright sad. Of what I see and hear on a daily basis from the students is absolutely disgusting. It would make you sick to your stomach some of the things that go on in my school.

I agree that the $1M supplement should be elimanated, but I don't think the state is going to pay for the entire amount of raise... I think some of it will be left to the county.

Has anyone read Stephen J. Dubner and Steven D. Levitt (of "Freakonomics" fame)? They write:..."(I)t isn't that parents don't matter. Clearly, they matter an awful lot. It's just that by the time most parents pick up a book on parenting technique, it's too late. Many of the things that matter most were decided long ago — what kind of education a parent got, how hard he worked to build a career, what kind of spouse he wound up with and how long they waited to have children. ...The privilege gap is far more real than the fear that haunts so many modern parents — that their children will fail miserably without regular helpings of culture cramming and competitive parenting." (

People always crow about discipline (probably good, in moderation), hard-work ethic and of course, lotteries. But if you are an involved middle- to upper-middle or higher income parent, who doesn't have bare bookshelves and especially if you waited until you grew up to have a child, your kid will have a better outcome almost anywhere they go. This doesn't disregard sheer anarchy if such exists in certain schools, of course.

As for teachers, they may be highly qualified or just mediocre (remember, someone has to be average...otherwise nothing can be exceptional), but the strongest correlations with success are determined before the parents even have a child!

Oh, there is another major indicator: children who speak English (and whose parents do as well) generally get a head start in this country's schools. And, kids who go to Head Start don't seem to do much better than those who don't.

The link for Dubner and Levitt's article:

Sorry, I am having source code malfunction (called my brain).

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-05-03-parents-edit_x.htm

Dear Teacher,

What could we do to support you in the classroom that is more, better, or diffrent than what you have now?

If you had a magic wand, what would you want Administrators, parents, and community members to do that would directly help you in the classroom?

Do you get help with behavior problems from Curriculum Facilitators or counselors? What about the Academic Coaches? Do they help you?

One thing that would help in the classrooms is cameras. The mere fact that they are there will help. (Fake cameras that do not work has been shown to help.) The unions have fought cameras for 20 years. They are afraid they will used to discipline tachers. It is now time to get over it. Bank personnel operate under cameras. Convenience store clerks operate under cameras. I believe cameras can be used to help teachers without being "big brother". New schools should be wired so they can be easily accomodate the cameras. Learning is difficult if the classroom is full of disruptions.

Joe,

You will never see cameras in the classroom. People would be too appalled as to what goes on in some classrooms. The people in charge would have to admit how bad some of the problems are when they hear what comes out of some students' mouths. The student handbook has changed over the past 3 years with less consequences for same rules broken 3 years ago. We need to take a hard look at where our schools are headed if this lax attitude for breaking rules continues.

Some SB members didn't even want School Watch where students could report anonymously. Do you think they would ever allow cameras that show the truth of how some kids act in school?

Also, it is hard for many teachers to teach their best when they are being observed for evaluations. They don't want to feel like they have to "perform" to please an audience. They should be "performing" to please one audience, the children, to bring the most out of their students. There are no occupations where everyone has a "perfect" day and would want to be continually monitored. Many would truly consider this an evasion of privacy and so would parents. It shows a lack of trust in who you hired in the first place. Teachers are studied, evaluated and parents do comment on teachers they like or have problems with. Principals usually know the good and bad teachers. It is another thing to collect data to prove incompetence.

Now cameras on buses to maintain safety and help with discipline is another story. We desperately need these.

I feel we need to monitor our maintenace workers more. I was recently teaching school one day where they had come back to cut the grass (which didn't need cut- it had been cut a few days ago) - the worker wore a mask while all the dust and dry grass blew around the kids/teachers on the playground. On top of that, two other workers blew DUST on the kids/teachers that happened to walk through the fog as their was NO GRASS to blow. This is a total waste of our tax dollars. Now why weren't these workers WORKING elsewhere like changing HVAC filters at Dudley. To me, the complete maintenance department needs some intense investigating and possible revamping in their scheduling and control/monitoring system. They should not just go to schools repeatedly to "kill time".

I would propose that cameras only be used if the teacher and principal both agree that it would be helpful. I would not use it for teacher evaluation unless the teacher agreed to it. You can come up with hundreds of reasons to be opposed to it. It is interesting that cameras on buses don't violate rights for the poor $12,000 yr bus driver, but it does for the $55,000 teacher. Teachers cannot teach and children cannot learn if their is chaos in the classroom.
Let's give it a test with only volunteers. I know it will help.

Joe,

And where would the money come from? We supposedly don't even have the money for cameras on buses.

With cameras on buses it is a pure safety issue if there is chaos in a moving vehicle with the potential for an serious accident. The cameras on the buses are to show which children are causing problems. It would be legal proof on record as to "he said - she said" in having fights on record. Bus drivers in Winston want them. I would imagine most bus drivers in GCS would welcome them too - that or an assistant on board. Cameras are cheaper than an additional employee on board.

As for a teacher wanting a camera in his or her room, I doubt most would volunteer. Many get tired now of being "taught" how to teach when they went to 4 years of college for this. What most really don't like is when the system, for example, pushes a new reading, writing or math program. Teachers spent time learning it, doing it and then in a few years "the newest, best" educational program comes down the pike and they have to learn that method. Not only is this frustrating to seasoned teachers; it is very expensive to keep changing by trial and error which method is best. When it gets right down to it, oftentimes it depends on which educator or vendor is promoting their newest product.

Teachers DO want support and back-up. Most new teachers desire mentors, but veteran teachers of 20 years don't like to keep "re-learning". In other words, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Help the ones that want help. After a while, the others might come on board when they see great improvement in the classes of their peers.

For the Love of Yahweh,

Now we got bloggers dictating to the education maintenance workers how to mow and blow grass off of the sidewalks at our schools.

H--l, let's investigate everyone including the cafeteria workers to make certain their hairnets conform to federal food service standards.

Bob,

row,row,row your boat gently up the stream!

Thats not what Barbara Ann meant. Come on woman!

I toatlly agree with her. The Maintenance dept needs investigating and someone needs to get fired (hopefully Grier).

RRB,

READ AGAIN! There was no grass to blow because there was NO grass to cut. The guy was riding on the lawnmower with a mask while the children coughed in the dust. They continued to blow dust while teachers and children had to walk back to the trailer city of classrooms.

They were blowing DUST not grass.

Remember a year or so ago when maintenance workers were tracked shopping at Lowes and taking their personal supplies home. Several lost their jobs. GCS had toyed with the idea that time of putting expenses tracking devices on maintenance trucks.

It is a simple process and does not have to be expense. I wrote the GCS at that time. Workers have their works schedules/maintenance repairs; work orders are in triplicate; they go to front office to sign in - time is logged in; work completed - time is logged out; one copy stays at school; others go back to main office and distributed to proper channels. Periodically call workers to see if they are at the school doing what they are to be doing. It is not rocket science. These are standard procedures in the construction industry for punch list people.

p.s. It's taught in Management 101. It is the step about "Maintaining Control and feedback"

I worked for a builder/developer for many years in Virginia. There are simple procedures and you don't need expensive tracking devices. It is a matter of proper management, hiring competent people and delegating.

Barbara Ann,

My point was, many of you are petty when it comes to your criticisms.

It's like if this mowing incident happens at this school, then of course, it's a system wide issue and is happening at all the schools. Stop the presses, call the Rhino, we have a disaster on our hands, the mowing crew disturbed some dust particles.

Dudley has dirty hvac filters, oh sweet Yahweh, the system is broke and we must immediately investigate and fire Dr. Grier and replace the Board.

And here's your solution to the problem. The Board must hire competent, inspired, motivated, and dedicated people to mow lawns, change air filters, scrub hallway floors, clean restrooms, empty trash cans, and of course, fire Dr. Grier. I truly admire your idealism.

No one is interested in the data? Children from poor homes with parents who do not know how to read or write, who don't have the emans nor the time to get deeply involved in their child's education, are highly, highly correlated with academic failure.
The amount paid to teachers, the presence of cameras, none of that will change the basic math. Period.

What will?

Get people out of poverty and into better jobs. Teach more adults to read. Have more flexible, affordable daycare and work schedules so people can get involved in their child's school.

RRB,

For the record, I have never purchased a yellow magnet for my car nor have you ever seen one on my car. You have never seen me write "fire Grier". I love how you just lump everyone in one group when you don't know individual people. I also love how you don't have the guts to use your real name.

Dr. Grier is an employee of GCS. The elected SB and how they voted is where the buck stops. For GCS to change, the board will have to experience change.

There is a lot of good in many of our schools. I work in them; I have witnessed the good of many dedicatd teachers, parents, students and community voluteeers. I have previously stated that also.

I have also seen too many "politics" and personal agendas over the past several years that is not motivated by education of our children. Read the papers, watch the board meetings. At the majority of the meetings it has been about redistricting, construction, minority contracts, etc. - and NOT about education. If you have read and kept up in the past several years, even the school board and Terry Grier himself have said there are areas that we need to improve on, things that need to change for our schools to improve and move forward.

I have written the board and Grier many times over the past several years and have seen some of my positive suggestions that affect children and safety, GCS employees come to fruition.

I have stated in the past and written Central Office and the SB that we do not need expensive tracking devices on maintenance vehicles. This was after GC maintenance workers were fired. The story was on all the news channels. My point about the "dust" was why are workers at a school killing time and cutting grass when there was none to cut when they could be "working" elsewhere. Also while the driver wore a mask, kids were there in the dust sucking it in.

My point is, in any large organization, there needs to be a system and built-in controls. However, unlike the real world of business based on profits to stockholders, this is "government" and "public education". It is not just Guilford County, it is just how it is with government funded entities. The taxpayers foot the bill.

I would appreciate you laying off the personal attacks as you really don't know me.

RRB,

About Dudley, it is more than dirty air filters if you have been keeping up. Tell just "dirty air filters" to those Dudley students, parents, alumni and Amos Quick.

My solution regarding maitenance department would be what any experienced person in business management would tell you:

hire competent MANAGERs
hire competent workers
hold supervisors of workers accountable
if workers can't do the work, replace them
have build in controls, simple procedures, to know where workers are going, what work is to be done, estimiated time of completed job
follow-up to see if it work has been done

It is no different than procedures for other service industries: plumbers, electricians, termite companies, punch-list people on construction sites.

Jobs are finished, inspected, retainers are held until work is completed in a satisfactory manner, subs sign off on mechanics liens upon completion of work stating they have been paid. Work is inspected and you get permanent COs. These are some of the standard procedures.