News-Record.com

Please write Newsweek asking them to include the police reports for the High Point high schools.

Certainly it's nice to see that GCS high schools are recognized for offering students more chance to take higher level courses and even propelling them to do so. But it would seem reasonable to factor in the success rate of the students in AP/IB courses. I'm not sure that an expenditure of >$600,000--the cost to pay for all the tests taken in the county--is continually justified when the pass rate on AP exams is only 45%.

Maybe money might be better spent on identifying and bringing along potentially strong students from Kindergarten on rather than waiting until they are in the 10th, 11th or even 12th grade to throw them into high-level, high-powered courses where they will have to wrestle with not only the course content and speed, but also with the competition from other students who have been playing the academic game at a higher rate all along. One would think helping students realize their full potential from the beginning of their schooling would be one of the major thrusts of education rather than waiting until near the end of their time in school to register them in courses according to their perceived, but underutilized, potential.

My suspicion is that many students in AP classes, while innately intelligent, simply do not have the formal academic skills to do well in the courses. How psychologically hurtful must it be to have been assigned to a class and know that you can't really keep up. The positive part of that experience has to be balanced against the negative impact of such a situation. I don't see how placing someone in a class that is over their head can be a totally positive experience . . . unless failing is good for the psyche and soul.

Students CHOOSE AP classes. These are OPTIONAL. And yes, AP classes are needed for our high achievers who are totally bored by the every day high school curriculum. Many of the AP students have been identified long ago. Yes, they should be identified sooner. Their academic needs should be met. These are our future scientists, doctors, nobel peace prize winners, future leaders.

Not all the students in some of these classes have the intelligence or the academic foundation that is required to succeed. Many don't want to put in the time these classes required.

As for "psychologically hurtful" it is no different than one person being skilled at basketball, violin, painting portraits, not making the cheerleading team. It is just life lessons in a competitive world of many talents, levels of intelligence and skills.

When students are assigned to AP classes based upon a certain score on the PSAT, the optional part seems to disappear. When the mere number of students in AP classes becomes the goal, quite a few students will be placed in what should be "optional" classes regardless of the true expectations of their success.

I hope I didn't sound like some sort of bleeding heart when I talked about psychological effects. Remember, the argument is that simply taking an AP class is a good, positive experience for any student. My contention is that it's very cynical for responsible adults to push students with no chance for success into something, whether a class, a sport or any other activity. I have seen the look on students' faces when they were in classes that were beyond them and were smart to realize it. It has to hurt.

Students should not be pushed into these classes. AP classes are college level courses that most students simply cannot handle. The goal should never be to just "fill the class".

There are students who choose Honor and AP classes just so they will not be in a CP class. Other parents have passed down this advice. There are also parents who put their children in private schools so their children are not subjected to what goes on in some CP classes. I know of several cases in CP classes where students were constantly out of their seats, disrespectful, cussing... I can't say I blame them these parents and students for wanting their children to be able to learn in respectful educational environment. It's a shame that this atmosphere is allowed to continue in our public high schools.

Jill is right. We should NEVER just try to fill AP classes with students who can't cut it. If this is done, they are being set up to fail. These classes are very intense and fast paced. Many children who have done quite well on tests and in Honor classes cannot handle AP classes. They are extremely time consuming. It takes years of good study habits, time management skills and self-discipline to succeed in most of these classes. A lot of students try them but have no idea of what is expected.

We currently have students in the "9th grade" that were asked or told that they need to take the AP World History course. We believe that this was to fulfill the Guilford County mandated number of AP courses that our school has to offer. They were told that they could drop the course, but were not allowed to.

I would like to know the outcome of this and how many schools practice this.

Are 9th grade students capable of taking an AP World History course and pass the AP test? How many high schools follow this practice? Are students that are talked into these couses passing the class work and passing the test?

If they are, GREAT! The teachers and students should be applauded and so so the administration that is pushing them to excel!

If not, we need to re-evaluate what we are doing.

I personally think that a 9th grader is not emotionally or mentally mature enough to be taking a "true" AP course and pass the test.

If I'm wrong, show me the numbers. What percentage and in what schools are 9th graders taking the AP courses and are they passing? What courses?
What are their grades...A, B, C, D.....?

Jennifer or Morgan....here is a good investigative piece..............Can you find out?

Here is something else to add in the mix. I just found out that parents are responsilbe for getting the kids to the AP exams. Some students drive, some aren't 16 yet or don't have cars or can't afford the gas. The system doesn't assist in getting these kids to the test but they are being 'encouraged' to take these courses (Many times against their wishes)-- I have already written Dr. Grier and the BOE about this.

If we can pay for second SAT test, SAT prep, rides home after tutoring, extra bus routes because of HS exams (don't get me started)-- then why do we expect the kids/parents to do all the transportation for the AP exams.

I'm a high school teacher and found out earlier this semester that freshmen who made a certain score on their PSAT were encouraged to take AP World History their sophomore year. Even so, students had the choice of putting AP World History on their schedules for next year. Students that didn't want to take the AP World History class didn't have to. I do know of several honors students that spoke with their history teachers and decided to sign up for it since they were A students and could handle the challenge.

Debora, I didn't know about the transportation issue. That does raise some questions. I also wonder is it right that GCS pays for AP exams when other school systems have the parents pay? Is it right that GCS pays for PSAT and SAT testing regardless of whether the student wants to be tested or not? There was also the issue this year of particular seniors being retested that had already taken the SAT in an effort to boost scores and the number of students taking the SAT. While it is wonderful to have a school system that would care so much about their students as to spend extra money on testing (lol), I think it might be more beneficial to put that money into classroom supplies, books, and things that could help all students.

andi,

I wonder why Terry Grier didn't think of that, after all his first concern is of the children every day. lol

Debora,

You are correct about the transportation and parents/students being responsible for getting there. This is the case at SWH.

I will say the efforts were well coordinated sophomore year with permission slips needed for students being allowed to go with other parents or students who drive. We had enough parents volunteer to drive students. Most of the juniors and seniors drive themselves to the AP exams as they have cars.

The before and after school tutoring is also scheduled so there aren't conflicts of tutoring times of different subjects. The tutoring is important particularly for those who had the course the first semester (block schedule). Transportation could be a possible issue for getting to tutoring also. However, this year some of the review was done in class for an all year class like AP Chemistry.

Transporation could be an issue for those who don't have a car and IMO, should be proved by GCS for those schools who do not have enough parent volunteers to drive.

Last paragraph should read "transportation" should be "provided". Please excuse typos - posted a little late.

AP exams are mandatory for completing the AP course and should only be given during regular school hours!!

At SWH, AP History review was done in class for the year round course. AP Chemistry is offering a review after school today.

I do believe GCS should pay for the AP exams. AP exams go hand in hand with taking the course. GCS pays for psychological testing on kids with special needs and many other tests for students. Tax money is wasted educating students who do not want to be in school, continually disrupt or are repeatedly suspended.

IMO we should provide MORE opportunities for our gifted learners, encouraging them to succeed. We should spend money on kids who want to learn and strive to be high achievers. These children are our future leaders. Their needs should be met and opportunities provided just like children with "special needs" receive consideration. Much money is spent educating special needs students, some with their own one-on-one assistants throughout years of schooling or ratios of 5:2 students to teachers for those students with emotional/behavior problems. What does the future hold for the emotional/behavor students who can't be in a regular classroom? Yet tons of taxpayers money is spent here.

I do not see why a student who has already taken the SAT, done well and has been accepted at a college would have any need to take it again. To me, this is a wasting money. You would think in this case it is only for the sake of "the numbers" looking good.

Frank,

The tests are only given during regular school hours. They can't be given on compus because of the noise levels, for one. It has to be in more of a controlled environment. I am sure there are other reasons.

When my daughter didn't drive last year, I drove several students. All students had a ride who needed one. It was a very well planned effort to make sure all students got to the testing area and back to school.

Transportation may be in issue in some schools. I would think that with the number of students who take AP classes, we can usually get enough parents to volunteer to drive.

Barbara Ann,

Our AP tests are given on site in our school.

The AP tests are not given during regular school hours. My student is taking these exams this week
and they were required to be at the school at 7:30
They were told if they were not there at 7:30 sharp the door would be closed and they would fail the class. He normally has to be at school at 8:50.
We also had to arrange transportaion for the other students that normally ride to school with him that could not be on their campuses before 8:15.

They are not given time to eat lunch between testing when they have tests on the same day.

They must be present for the second test at 11:30 and are not release until 4:00, since the buses leave the school at 3:45 this is also a problem.

AP questions and answers can be found at

http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/ap/reg.html

Comments or complaints can be sent to

apexams@info.collegeboard.org

I have spoken to people at 4 differnt schools, Page gives AP on site, Grimsley across the road, Central around the corner, NW at 2 off campus sites, one is in Kernersville. GCS pays for all tests, and now our new principal at NW is arranging a bus this week for tests. I wrote and thanked him. This should not be a parent responsibility. If the school chooses an off campus site, they should provide transportation. I can understand that it is quieter off campus, but parents should not have to take off work to get kids to a test because the leadership team decided not to do it on campus.

The schools need to provide transportation to
on-campus sites. The students at Eastern
Guilford must be in the classroom at 7:30,
the high school buses don't start arriving
on campus until around 8:30.

This issue needs to be taken up with the National Testing center which is setting the testing times
for the entire country through www.collegeboard.com.

It seems that you just cant please some people. I for one am very happy that my children have the opportunity to take AP classes and exams and am willing to transport my children to take exams if necessary. This is a unique opportunity for my children. They can earn college credits while they do this.

Dear HappyaboutAP,
you miss the point! Many parents don't have cars, can't get off their jobs, etc. One parent that I spoke to is a teach, so all of her kids had to have a sub the day she had to drive her son to the test. It affects alot of people. Our county finds money to do things like send tutored children home after hours on a bus, we pay for 2nd testing on SAT for some children, tutoring for SAT's for others, why would we not assist these children in getting to the class to take a test that the school is giving. The school decides where to give the test, they should provide transportation.

Frank,

That is a predicament having two tests on one day.

My daughter has never had a test on the same day. She has four this year, all different days. They have taken a snack too in case they get hungry. But they do need to arrive at the testing site on time. It is not far from SWH.

I do agree if parents don't have transportation, it should be provided. But like I said before, everyone at SW, to my knowledge, has always had a ride because it is well coordinated ahead of time.
Some parents have rearranged their work schedules.

If the tests are early, just like involvement in clubs, sports, tutoring, etc. it is up to the kids to get to the school. I see where this could be difficult-just like the Parkview kids will have a tough time getting to sports or extracurricular activities at SWH when they are bussed across town this coming school year.

AP classes are one of the most positive features that have been made available to Guilford County students.

However, AP classes and exams should be available to "all" students that are capable of doing the work.

If the student depends on school transportation because they are being bused to the school then
something needs to be done to keep the testing schedule within school hours just as the PSAT test
is given.

AP class is not an "extracurricular activity" and this is not an unreasonable request.

We have students that are bused from Greensboro to
Gibsonville. If you have no idea how inconvenient this is I challenge you to go to Page high school and drive to Eastern Guilford. This is how far our students travel (twice) a day every day. Add to this that it is not the rich kid that lives around the lake, but the kids with a single parent with one vehicle in the apartment across the street.

I'm just saying as participation in AP classes increase, we need to make sure that everyone that is eligible has the same opportunity. I'm sure our school helped any individuals that had a problem with transportation, but hopefully this number will increase next year and transportation needs to be accounted for ahead of time.

The testing schedule is set at the national level
and it is not determined locally.

Jennifer ... Morgan,

Can you see if there are any statistics available
or if any can be made available this year listing
- number of AP classes per school
- number of students in 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th
in AP classes per school...list classes
- number of students passing the course 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th
- number of students passing the AP exam per school per grade
- number of students who fail course and exam

AP parent, why?

Debora,

With advance notice, just about anyone with a little effort can make transportation plans for their kids to take these exams.

How many times do these tests occur in a year? What's the matter, too selfish to use some of your personal or vacation time at work for the benefit of your child?

Always something to gripe about.

The PSAT and EOG's are given during the regularly scheduled school day.

Why not the AP exams?

Riverboat Bob,
You don't know me and I don't appreciate the personal slam. I don't even have a child in HS yet! I brought this up to aid in the discussion and because several parents have told me how much it impacted their lives.

I happen to volunteer over 8 hours a week in my son's school. I work for myself so I can be flexible! I think your time would be better spent talking about the subject as opposed to making personal attacks.

9th graders do not take AP classes.

RBB's comment was way out of line. Most posters know who RBB is Debora. Trust me you don't want to know.

As AP classses grow at some of the struggling schools transporation to the tests could be a valid concern. Every student who wants to take the test should be sure of transportation.

AP4me
I was told that NW had 6 classes of 9th grade AP world history, and that it was so hard that next year it will be for 10th graders. Can anyone verify that? Seem like with all the transitional issues that 9th graders have that would not be the time to be taking many ap classes.

There are definitely AP World History classes at Eastern Guilford High school and only 9th grade
students are in the class.

I would like to know how this experiment has worked........

Did every high school try this?

Jennifer...Morgan.......??

Debora/Frank

This is news to me. At SWH students start AP classes in 10th grade, unless this has changed. (Sophomores take AP World history). I heard AP classes used to only start in 11th grade a few years ago.

Most freshman take honors classes, prerequisites and get PE out of the way.

This is some great research work for Morgan and Jennifer. Is there a current policy?