News-Record.com

SROs in Guilford County are very expensive. Do we need officers that cost about 90k when we could have Safety Officers at half the price. In the Middle Schools, do we want the Principal deciding whether a student should be charged in criminal court or do we want a Law Enforcement Officer that wants to teach the kid a lesson and give him a record. Why can't the BOE decide whether it wants tazers on their property? SROs in High School? Yes. SROS in Middle School? Under some circumstances but not in others? The SROs are not free, every dollar spent on them takes one dollar away from actual instruction. Is this what you want?

Joe,

If this is the price we must pay for safety of children in schools, then as for me, the answer is YES.

Me, too. SROs protect our children - that's a price I'm more than happy to pay.

Joe, I appreciate and share your concern about waste in the school system. But if you are looking for areas in the budget to trim, there are much better places to cut than school safety.

The construction cost overruns at Smith and Dudley, for example, could hire enough SROs to protect our middle and high schools for years. Likewise, the school board spent $500,000 on racial sensitivity training for teachers - money that could've gone to the classroom.

As for SROs taking away money from instruction, what kind of a toll do disruptive, dangerous students take on instruction? Aren't they preventing other kids from learning?

Compared to the alternative, the cost of SROs is money well spent and I appreciate what they do to keep our students safe.

We are not very far apart on this. I know they are needed in some schools. They may even need to be two in some schools. What I object to is the automatic placement of SROs in schools when there is no demonstrated need. The idea that they cannot be shared when the schools are on the same campus and they have no history of irregular activity is something I cannot understand.

Okay, I see what you are saying, Joe. And that makes perfect sense to me - some schools obviously need SROs more than others and if a school doesn't have a demonstrated need, maybe they shouldn't automatically have an SRO. And if two relatively safe schools share a campus, I can see them sharing an SRO.

I appreciate you explaining that and it does make sense.

However, I think where we differ is that I don't trust the Guilford County School Board to make the right decisions on these issues. I'm afraid they would listen to people like Deena Hayes, who hates the police, rather than doing what's best for the kids and the employees.

Morgan,

How long has GCS had an emergency closing policy and school safety plan in place and does it encompass all Guilford County Schools?

"(GCS has both an emergency closing policy and school safety plan)."

YES SROs in Middle School. These "children" are not all little 6th graders. Many of these students are have repeated grades. They are older, bigger, and have raging hormones. Maybe the reasons some schools don't have problems is because of the very presence of the SROs. They have established a positive rapport and working relationship with the students. The other reasons some schools "do not have problems" is because many, many incidents go underreported because a school doesn't want to be deemed as a violent school under NCLB rules. This is reportedly happening in public schools across the country.

I would rather a student who is out of control and seriously endangering other students or staff be tased than shot with a 45. Also pepper spray has been known to hurt inocent bystanders. The officers are trained professionals and would only be using a taser where it was very necessary to prevent serious harm to others. No one has been tased so far and I would imagine this would be a last resort.

Morgan or Jennier,

I read your story today that said that GCS has $20.3 million replacement cost coverage on Eastern HIgh. But, your story says that it will cost $40 million to rebuild the school using Northern's plans.

I've got some questions that I'd like answers to from GCS. If GCS had Eastern valued at $20.3 million to replace, why is it going to coat $20 million more to replace it? Since they are rebuilding on existing land, there are no land costs here. My understanding is that Northern was built to serve 1,200 students, which would provide some space growth as Eastern had just over 1,000 students, so I understand that there might be some extra cost, but $20 million more?

Forsyth County recently built two high schools for 1,200 students at the cost of approximately $24 million each, delivering both schools at budget and on-time. Both schools are well-designed and well-constructed, so it would not seem that they skimped anywhere in the building, although they are not "green" schools. But, according to Mr. Hill in a past statement that making Northern "green" only added about $10,000 to the building cost, so that can't account for much extra cost.

It would not seem that GCS undervalued the replacement cost of Eastern as the cost is similar to the Forsyth schools cost. So, why $20 million more? If, in fact, it was going cost $40 million to rebuild the school, was GCS negligent in undervaluing the replacement cost of the school to skimp on their insurance premiums?

I, along with the other county taxpayers, would like a straight answer on these questions. Will you please obtain them from GCS?

Stormy,
good question. As a member of the Northern HS project team, many things have made the cost higher for Northern - the main one in my opinion was the timing of the bids, with cement and steel being so high after Katrina. We had to send a few million on water and sewage (remember no city water/sewer), we had to pay to widen the road, put in curbs, stoplights etc. We had to spend hundreds of thousands to move rock in the soil, etc. None of that should have to be done at Eastern-- although I understant some changes will be made to the plan, it shouldn't cost as much as new plans...

Do you think this includes cleaning up the site? Are they going to save anything? I heard the cafeteria could be saved. As you said, there is water, sewer, land, roads all in place...

Construction companies for major projects don't like to bid on Guilford County Schools jobs. When they do bid, the price is such that they will make money regardless of the obstacles encountered. One large contract was awarded to a company in April and they were to start building on May 1st. GCS delivered the permits, promised by May 1st on May 21st. They lost 21 days. How many days did GCS extend their period of performance - zero days. GCS often does not play fair. Ask contractors, they prefer doing work in any county except Guilford. This costs money.

Joe,

Correctly stated, it costs us, the taxpayers, money for their incompetence. So, we could save taxpayers money by getting rid of the incompetents and getting someone who is competent. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing, the same way, over and over and expecting different results.

debora and Joe,

I appreciate your valid comments and observations, but I'd still like to hear GCS justify the difference. At least, it might be amusing.

I think scary is more the optimal term than amusing. In fact, I have the sinking feeling that the Eastern project is going to be a nightmare. Again, we the taxpayers are left wondering as to why Forsyth County can get it right or Wake County. Why can't the system look to see what works in private industry and make some comparisons? Someone said it right recently...if they can build a Super Wal-Mart in record time, in a matter of months, then why can't we build a school in the same amount of time. When are we going to start putting our children first? Well I'm not waiting until half-past-never. Changes need to be made NOW!

P.S., check out P. 6 in this week's Rhino for more coverage of a coming announcement in the coming days.

E.C. Huey
GSO
hueyforguilfordschoolboard@yahoo.com

E.C.,

We have noted your previous posts to the CB and have read the story in the Rhino. You can be assured that you will ample support in 2008 in bringing more accountability to this school board. It is desperately needed now.

RE Resource Officers:

Joe, I agree with your premise of we don’t need them at every school, but have to warn you we do not know where they are needed because violence is being covered up and most parents have no idea how at risk their kids are. The school board has no idea and appears to be scared to ask.

One young lady at South West middle has reported 6 fights in her hallway this year! This is increasing! At another school kids are bringing beer to class and teachers are scared to report it. If we had responsible reporting of violence and problem behavior I think we could improve things and address the issues and target resources. Somehow, some group is keeping this info out.

I think the effectiveness of an SRO is dependant on the person doing the job. Our SRO has been able to thwart several 'incidents' due to the relationships that he has built with our middle school kids. He is seen as a mentor and is always open to talking to the kids. He informs them about good/bad choices etc. I think probably most people in the county would say we don't need one at our school, due to low crime rates, but I like having him there, I think he prevents many things by his presence alone. We have had occasions where a non-custodian parent made threats to come 'take their child' during school hours-- he was alerted and helped watch all day. He has worked with the SRO at the high school on many things-- drugs, kids speeding in their cars etc.

As far as tzars go, in the county if we need police, its the sheriff's office that responds and they all carry tzars. I have to agree, that a tzar is better than a gun. Again if you have the right person, they aren't going to use that or pepper spray or their gun unless absolutely necessary.

Jennifer, the title on your lastest article was:

"Fewer schools fail than thought".

I would of thought a better title would of been

"Failing schools almost Double in Guilford County"

After all it did go from 10 last year to 17 this year?

Can you explain the thought process here. To me it makes the worsening position almost favourable.
Hey its almost a sucess! Add another year onto Grier contract!

Failed,

These were my thoughts when I read this title after I read the article. Talk about being a spin doctor.

"In all, 17 schools this academic year must offer extra tutoring, transfers out of the school or both. That’s fewer than the 23 schools that could have been sanctioned, but more than the 10 that were sanctioned last year."

How confusing is this statement?!? JENNIFER, does this mean that 23 schools could have been sanctioned but only 17 were? In other words 17 out of 23 or 74% were sanctioned?

Does the title of your article mean everyone thought more schools would need sanctioned because they were doing so terribly and now we are thankful that as many as we thought didn't fail? What is the point?

I regret to say the N&R bends over backward to make everything neutral or favorable to the school system. They appear to believe critical reporting carries a risk that do not want to bear. Look at N&R coverage of the police problems. Some pretty bad stuff was going on and the N&R knew it. But they failed to print it. Their coverage is in line with the current network coverage of politics. It is ok to slant the news, it is ok to only get one side. It is ok to take party line and do independent confirmation of what is going on. They extended Dr. Grier's contract at about 11:45pm on Thursday night. It was in the paper on the following Tuesday.

Joe,
did you hear that all (perhaps just most) of the windows at Northern Middle were broken due to vandelism about 10 days ago. It was reported in last weeks NW Observer. No telling what the cost of that will be. For everyone, I am on the Northern Middle School project team. We meet this Tuesday for the last look before completion date of Dec 15th-- kids aren't moving untilJan 24, due to moving stuff in, punch list etc. I have my doubts about it being ready by Dec 15th. There was alot to do last month, and now windows have to be replaced.

Thank god we have Garth on the board.

He will not be afraid!

I hope some of the other BOE members will hang onto his shirt tails!

Deb,

That's a shame aboutthe vandalism at Northern Middle. Maybe insurance will cover this?

GREAT COUNTERPOINT IN TODAY'S PAPER. WE ARE WAITING PATIENTLY AND MAKING PLANS FOR 2008!

Joe, thought you might like to see how the High Point Enterprise reported the AYP and failing school data.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Schools to offer free tutoring, transfers

GUILFORD COUNTY – More schools will offer tutoring and transfers after being penalized for missing federal testing goals. Seventeen schools in Guil­ford County – up from 10 last year – will be sanctioned this year for missing targets under the annual Adequately Year Progress program.
Recently released AYP re­sults showed that only 44.4 per­cent – 48 out of 108 – of schools met higher standards in 2006, down from 53.8 percent in 2005 and 67.6 in 2004.
The AYP sanctions apply on­ly to Title I schools which re­ceive extra funding to assist students who meet the federal indicator of poverty and quali­fy for free or reduced-price meals.
Schools are only penalized after missing goals two or more years in a row. AYP penalties become more strin­gent from year to year if a school misses targets consecu­tively. Restructuring of the en­tire school is the stiffest sanc­tion.
This year, Vandalia Elemen­tary was the only Guilford County school to make it off the sanction list from last year, according to AYP results re­leased by the Department of Public Instruction.
Here’s how the other penal­ized schools fared.
● Ferndale Middle and Kirk­man Park, Montlieu, Washing­ton and Wiley elementary schools will offer tutoring and transfers again this year. Fern­dale is in year three of school improvement, while Montlieu is in year two but made progress in reading.
● Northwood also made progress in reading. The High Point school will offer trans­fers only along with Bessemer and Gillespie Park elemen­tary schools and Hairston Middle.
● This year, eight additional schools will be required to of­fer extra tutoring to eligible students, among them four High Point schools: Oak Hill and Union Hill elementary schools and Penn-Griffin and Welborn middle schools.

A number of Guilford County schools will be penalized for not meeting AYP targets for two or more consecutive years and must offer transfers and free tutoring to eligible students.
The 17 schools include: Aycock, Bessemer, Ferndale, Gillespie Park, Penn-Griffin, Hairston, Hampton, Jackson, Kirkman Park, Montlieu, Northwood, Oak Hill, Rankin, Union Hill, Washington, Welborn, Wiley.

That is a really good article.

Thats a High Point paper. They tell the truth down there.
They will probably be called racists or selfish or something for doing that though!

Joe brings up a good point about GCS and its relationship with contractors.

For years, many contractors have felt the school system doesn't play fair. What happens is that the school system will squeeze contractors as hard as they can, under the guise of getting the most for their money.

The problem is that you can only get away with that once. Rather than build partnerships with local contractors, the school system has created an adversarial relationship.

So it's not surprising that builders don't want to do business with GCS, or that when they do, they charge more than they would for other clients. Would you want to do business with someone who you felt wasn't treating you fairly?

Stormy,
GCS's property insurance covers all of the buildings it owns and the premium is based on a set price per square foot (I believe about $108 per square foot). There is no separate policy on Eastern and the coverage is provided by the Department of Public Instruction, which covers most public schools in the state. The Eastern building, fields etc. (not including contents) was valued at about $18.2 million. But that is for a school that was built in the 1970s. Northern High's design meets current codes, has more square footage, a different layout and faces a different construction cost dynamic and a fast track time table (Terry Grier hopes to have the school built within two years instead of the typical three). Also, the district is not starting from scratch- it must clear the site of the old school; I don't think that $40 million necessarily covers just putting up the new school.

One more thing, fast-tracking the construction of a new school is a Catch 22 for the district: if something goes wrong like it did at Eastern, Kernodle and Hairston, the district will be blamed for not doing its due diligence. If the district does take it's time the community will complain about students not being in a permanent building sooner.

E.C. Huey Piece in N&R

Would someone tell me if his sentence on extending Dr. Grier's contract was "tongue-in-cheek" or did he mean what he said?

Fair Play,

Sounds to me that our administrators are trying to wring every dollar of work out of the contractors they can. Thus, getting more money for the buck for it's taxpayers.

I applaud them for their fiduciary responsibility.

Joe,
I took ECHuey's comment as tongue in cheek. I saw your picture in the paper. What are your thoughts about the Lucient building. I can't come to the meeting tomorrow night, my guess is that they will try to buy that 6 acres and spend 1Million plus to put trailers and use the fields etc that are already there. Of course this will cause some traffic/safety concerns once rebuilding starts.

RP, you may be the first person to use "Guilford County School Board" and "fiduciary responsibility" in the same sentence.

Remember, this is the same group that grossly overspent for construction work at Smith and Dudley. It's the same crowd that spent $500,000 on racial sensitivity training for teachers, many of whom are paying for supplies out of their own pockets.

Understand, I have no problem with the school board demaning that contractors deliver on what the taxpayers are paying for. Not at all.

But that's different than needlessly playing hardball with well-intentioned business people. Take Joe's example: GCS delivered needed permits 21 days late, yet didn't give the contractor any extra time to complete the job. That simply isn't fair and it ultimately costs taxpayers money. Contractors know they won't get a fair shake from GCS, so to compensate themselves for their headaches, they quote higher prices than they would for other customers.

Which approach works better - trying to "wring every dollar of work out of contractors they can" or building long-term relationships with contractors based on mutual respect and trust?

I'd say the old phrase "Penny-wise, but pound-foolish" describes GCS and its dealings with contractors. They think they are saving money in the short run, but all they really are doing is driving up prices in the long run.

Morgan,

I understand what you reported in your previous post, but it really doesn't directly answer my questions. Having had a long career in insurance, I understand how the business works. My understanding is that GCS had "replacement cost" coverage. That means that the settlement is to provide funds that would be sufficient to rebuild the school in the same size and quality as it existed. Age of the building shouldn't be an issue. If the premium was based upon a $108 multiplier of square feet, how was the $108 multiplier determined? What were the inputs of that premium? Is that the same premium charged every district in the state, regardless of location or quality of buildings?

In any event, the payoff of the policy should provide GCS with sufficient funds to rebuild the school in the same size and quality that existed. $20 million would be in the ballpark of what it cost to build the two Forsyth schools which were at $24 million each. It is likely that Eastern was smaller than those two new schools accounting for the difference in cost. Now, if GCS decides to build it bigger and better, then they are making the decision to spend more money, which sounds to be in the neighborhood of an additional $20 million over insurance settlement. That is what I don't understand. Replacement cost coverage should contemplate current codes and construction cost dynamic as that is the essence of replacement cost coverage. Otherwise, it's just the variables that GCS chooses to interject. I'm just questionning why that $20 million.

As far as prepping the site to rebuild, doesn't the insurance policy provide funds for that purpose outside of the replacement for the building?

Morgan, I understand that you don't have access to the terms of the insurance policy, and some of these questions are difficult for you to address. That is why if would be appropriate for someone at GCS to properly address to the public what is happening, so that there is full disclosure by the district of this matter. In addition to the Eastern folks, all taxpayers have an interest in this matter, especially if a school bond will be requested to help fund it in 2007. There are just too many loose ends and gaps in underestanding here for people to develop confidence in GCS' stewardship of our money.

Stormy,
Following is what the insurance policy states:
"In the event of loss or damage to Covered Property, we (DPI) will make settlement by whichever of the following methods is least costly:
a) Pay the value of lost or damaged property;
b) Pay the cost of repairing or replacing the lost or damaged property;
c) Take all or any part of the property at an agreed or appraised value;
d) Repair, rebuild or replace the property with other property of like kind, quality and function.

So the state may or may not use the $18.2 million figure, depending on which is the cheapest method of payment for them. In addition, the replacement cost is based on the value of the four possible solutions. I don't see what motivation the district would have to underestimate the value of Eastern, given that the premium is based on square footage and not market or tax value (although I'm certain other factors contributed to price of insurance). Also keep in mind that the $18.2 million listed in the policy is the same as the amount recorded by the Guilford County Tax Office. Last, my previous articles never said the replacement coverage would equal $18.2 million or that the $18.2 equalled the amount to rebuild the same school; it only mentioned what the reported value was for context. We should wait and see what the state awards the district to see if it is close to or above that total $20.3 million figure.

Morgan,

Thanks for that information, but one of your previous stories caused some confusion for me on this matter. Your story made some of the following statements:

"Guilford County Schools renewed its annual property insurance policy in July with the Department of Public Instruction at a cost of $478,266. At the time, Eastern and its contents were valued at $20.3 million.

Items the policy covers include:

lcosts to rebuild an identical school and replace furniture and equipment;
lrestoration of valuable papers such as student records;
lmoney due on unpaid student fundraising items.

"Wherever there is coverage or a sublimit, we are going to give them as much as we can," Townsend said. "We foresee that they will be beyond the limits on these."

For example, the policy states that the district would get up to $300,000 to cover the expenses of resuming "normal operations" such as classes. Superintendent Terry Grier said last week that he expected renovations at one temporary location for students alone to cost at least $400,000.

The district also anticipates spending at least $40 million on the new Eastern Guilford, more than twice the value of the former school. Officials have decided to rebuild the school based on Northern High School’s design to accommodate future growth. Officials have not determined the source of additional funding, but have mentioned state lottery or county funds as possibilities."

As I read your story, it seemed to read that $20.3 million was the "cost to rebuild an identical school and replace furniture and equipment". If the policy has some language that allows the insurance to platy something less than that, so be it.

Still, this does not answer why GCS says it will cost $40 million to rebuild Eastern. You don't have the land costs and land prep costs that you had at Eastern. If you rebuilt the school the same size and quality as existed, then you wouldn't have to spend $20+ million more. I would like to know the specifics of what the extra $20 million is to be spent upon. I referred to the Forsyth schools having been built for $24 million each at the same time that Northern is being built at an ultimate cost of as much as $45-50 million. All three schools are designed for 1,200 students. So, where is the extra millions needed? Morgan, there is something here that is not obvious.

As I said, Morgan, GCS needs to come forward and share this information with us, if they want backing from the county. No one from GCS has even attempted to give us information on the insurance settlement. We need them to be more forthcoming on this matter. If it is going to cost $40 million to rebuild Eastern in 2-3 years, why not go ahead and buy the Lucent building now for the same money and get the Eastern family settled?

Stormy,
I believe that Eastern was on the list of the upcoming bond mess for about $20 for expansion. My guess is the cost is part of that 'expansion'-- It is costing about 40 million to build Northern, but as I said, that included land, sewer, water, expanding roads, etc. Those items don't need to be done at Eastern. If it cost 9 million to 'fix' 3 middle schools since they had to have overtime, would that count for some of the extra?

I too agree, that the cost is very questionable!

The BOE seem to just plough ahead with construction matters and give absolutely no explanation to tax payers.

So many questions.....Not enough answers.

Its disgusting!

debora,

The $20 million may be justified, but I would like a detailed explanation of it before I am willing to give any support to a school bond to finance it. We have a track record with this administration of bait and switch. Grier, himself, has said that they won't do everything promised on the last bond list. Thus, he has created his own credibility gap with taxpayers. There are just too many questions regarding the $20 million. We need to know what they are planning. Too much is done in secret and the dark with our tax dollars with this group. It's fine for Morgan to try to explain and justify it, but I want to hear it from GCS, so that I can hold them accountable when it doesn't happen as they promise.

I agree Stormy, maybe we will hear something at the meeting tonight. I have a meeting at 7 so will miss part of the broadcast. Please post if anything of importance is decided.

debora,

It should be noted that Mendenhall and Sykes are still the voting members of the board tonight. This is a perfect set-up for some last minute shenanigans once again as we saw with the one-year extension for Terry Grier. By rights, this lame duck board should postpone any action until the new members are installed. What needs to be done before the next board meeting that can't wait? Watch out tonight.

Is there a law that states the new board has to be inducted in December? Why couldn't they be inducted tonight? After all, this was a "special called meeting", not a regularly scheduled meeting.

RP,

Give it a rest. We've already seen the handiwork of Mendenhall as a lame duck. If big buck deceisions are going to be made tonight, she shouldn't be the vote that counts. This is not the U.S. Government. One more week won't matter in this decision, and those that vote could be held accountable for how they vote. Mendenhall can't be held accountable for what she does tonight, just like she hasn't been for 16 years.

Also, make a note. I don't live in NHP.

Just to let everyone know, at Northern Middle the vandelism was only 4 broken windows, not alot! Thank goodness. Looks like the school will open Jan 24 (was suppose to be Jan 2) in time for the second semester. It will be a great school, and the much needed space will help alot in our area of major overcrowding.

In light of 16 years of service in an elected position she must have done a lot right to have her constituency return her time and time again to that position.

Seems pretty accountable to me.

Is the board non-board meeting going to be televised and taped tonight?

It appears that the Lucent building is not a good fit. I know the realtors want the BOE to take it off their hands. The building has few windows because it was built to do highly classified work. There is no way to get in and out of the Lucent building for less than 7-8 million. This money would be better used to bring the new Eastern in 21 months vice 33 months. Some people get the idea that the Lucent Building has not been considered. It was looked at and toured by several staff members including Dr. Grier before the fire. Discussions were held in open session about how it could be used and for what purposes. My mind is not closed to using it, but it appears that it is not the best way to address the emergency at hand. Remember, CityBank would not use it for a call center. They built their own building. Company after company has looked at it and turned it down. Are you sure you want the BOE to be the buyer of last resort? Besides, the price is outrageous because they think we are Mr. Money Bags.

RP, as Stormy says. Not everyone who posts on here is from NHP. Give it a rest.

We all need to accept that this questioning is good for everyone. We cant let the BOE do everything they want without any input. I mean negative input to them should be seen as more important than positive.

Thats how I would take it anyway. Positive input generally means nothing.

RP,

You should understand that board members may be elected from a district, but the reality is that their decisions and actions affect residents of the entire county. Some board members may get elected because they pay attention only to the needs of their district, and not the entire county. It's important that board members represent the interests of their constituency well, but they must also be responsible and accountable to the entire county. When Susan Mendenhall made the motion to extend Terry Grier's contract in a lame duck capacity in the dark of night, she did not serve me, nor the residents of District 2, well. It is time for her to go.

Four years ago when Mendenhall was up for re-election the High Point Choice Plan had not occurred. The swapping maps had not occurred. The ill feelings that resulted after all this was not there. Since 2003 forward, major shifts in personal agendas, politics, and unfair redistricting have happened. Susan's retirement speaks for itself. Change is good for all concerned.

As District 2 is so big with so many personal interests and a split North and Old High Point it's a tough district to represent everyone's best interest. But in a democracy one would think that a representative should represent the majority interests of their constituents, that one would listen to her constituents. The majority interest was quite clear during all the meetings about the Choice Plan in 2004 when over 800 people filled Southwest High and the fire marshal was called in. Looking back, having to beg to do what was right by our children should never have been. Having to plead one's case to go to one's school across the street to 3 board members should never have been.

Also having having an "at-large" district who also represented Old High Point and not Southwest did not help.

Garth will do an excellent job for District 2. He will work for what is right for the education of the students. Busing students under the guise of education is not in anyone's best interest. Also he will know first hand where unnecessary spending occurs and money is wasted.

What is pathetic, for example, as other students and parents were attending the sports banquet last night at Southwest at 5:45 some students were still waiting for their bus ride home. These are the students who continue to get the short end of the deal.

Realistic Parent.

Please go away if you have nothing to do but critcize and belittle posters on this blog.

People like you are not welcome.

A GUN fell out of a boys pocket at NEHS during the basketball game tonight and he was quickly arrested. I wonder if anything willbe in the N & R about it.

Morgan,

OK, now the board has made its decision to rebuild Eastern at the cost of $51 million. Would you take on the task of learning and reporting why it costs that much, when there are no land costs? Again, Forsyth County just completed two new high schools that were built for less than that. Forsyth County reported that Atkins and Reagan cost a total of about $49 million. You reported that they will use $10 million from insurance and obtain a loan, but where will the funds eventually come from to pay for this $51 million facility?

Also, since Eastern had an attendance of just over 1,000 students at the time of the fire, Why build a school for 1,600 students now, especially in light of the fact that more than 100 of those students were being bussed in from the Page district to help fill the school? Surely, they will say that they are planning for growth, but is building a school for 1,600 students wise, when it wouldn't be near capacity for several years wise? The two schools that Forsyth built had common areas designed for 1,400 students, but they only built classrooms for 1,200 initially. A classroom wing could be added at the cost of $5 million when needed to increase the capacity as needed. (The ultimate cost would be $24 + $5 million.) Planning for growth is wise, but you don't have to build it long before it is needed. What if growth patterns change in the next few years, and a school for 1,600 students is not needed at Eastern? Growth in the Northwest is occurring now, and present facilities are already inadequate, even with Northern coming online someday. How will the board address this problem any time soon?

Bottom line, this board is not doing the basic planning that is routinely done by any $1/2 billion per year organization. They need a strategic plan that looks out for 5-10 years, rather than running this district as though it was a hot dog stand. Hopefully, Garth will bring a discipline to this group that is so sorely needed and in so short of supply.

Stormy,

You'd be better off asking the Rhino to do investigative reporting on this topic.

Come on Stormy, you know how it works. Remember the 2000 bond? They added onto Andrews High School. A couple years later they said "This school is under capacity. We MUST bus some kids over."

Next, they add millions for "magnets" to attract the kids. Then more $$ for buses to transport the kids.

Morgan/Jennifer...what about the gun?

Stormy,

We'll check on the costs. I know some of it is because Eastern will have some of the environmental "green" components of Northern. Other factors would be inflation and size of the building.

Beyond that, I'm not sure what the other cost increases might be. The land there doesn't have the problems with rock that Northern did and that contributed to some of Northern's escalating costs. And the district owns the Eastern land, where it had to buy the Northern land.

As for how big Eastern should be, what do Eastern parents think? You know the area best. I've seen a lot of housing developments in the eastern Guilford/western Alamance area. Is that area growing enough that the new school should be built bigger?

Didn't the district reopen Mcleansville as an elementary instead of a magnet school because of growth in the eastern area?

Common sense dictates you prepare for the future. It's always better to overcapacitate for student growth in light of the exploding population in our State as well as the large influx of immigrants to our area.

Geezo pete, or is it pepe?, people complained about all the trailer classrooms in our system and now that the Eastern HS project is structured to adequately correct this problem, lo and behold someone complains that the school is being built too big.

Truth be told, once the construction for Eastern is finished with capacity at 1600, it'll be obsolete and in need of more space.

Skit,

Checking on it.

RP,

You missed my point again as ususal. My point is that certain areas of the county are overcrowded NOW. Most of the students at those schools go to school every day in a trailer, and they have for years. You saw the reacton of Eastern parents to a village of trailers for their children. Well, Northwest and Southwest students have been living with that for years, without any hint of relief. Logic would seem to dictate that you spend construction expansion dollars where there is already a problem. My point was that Eastern is being rebuilt 600-700 seats over their present enrollment. How many years will it take to fully occupy this school, short of bussing more students from Page? I expect that none of the Eastern students have ever gone to class in a trailer. Further, as demonstrated by Forsyth County, build the school for your present needs, and design it so that it can be easily and inexpensively expanded when the need exists. Of course, that would require logic and planning which is in short supply with this board.

RP,

"people complained about all the trailer classrooms in our system" Yeah, they have, and what do the Eastern folks get for 2-3 years as a solution? A village of trailers. Somehow, when Hillary said "It takes a village", I don't believe that she envisioned a village of trailers for classrooms.

FYI, Northern has capacity for 1600, core for 1200- -we are leaving many classrooms unfinished and can be finished when the need arises (by the time the 12th grade is there, we will need it)-- all to save money, which is good in and of itself.
Trailers are a fact of life for us at NW--They are not a bad solution except in case of extreme weather and we have brick and morter buildings for the children in that case. I worry about where Eastern kids would go in case of tornado warnings-hopefully the middle school has enough space for them.

Debora,

I agree. How far is the run from the Eastern "village" to the Middle school? We often don't have the luxury of a lot of warning when tornadoes occur. Often tornadoes come with hail, etc. How far will these kids have to run through hail to reach the middle school? Do we actually expect if that is the case that it occur smoothly?

Stormy,

There is a solution for the overcrowding at Southwest. Redistrict kids to available seats at Andrews just a few miles away. Oh wait... that won't work because you don't want your middle class white kids around african american kids. Sorry for a second I forgot about your hatred. Silly me I was thinking that you and Garth and the other folks around here might really care about education. Sometimes I forget how racism consumes you. Huuh... well gee, I just don't have another suggestion.

The Real Truth

I don't know how far the village will be from the middle school... very good question, I have never been to that campus.

SW is overcrowded (and has been for years) due to growth in that area. Andrews was expanded in the 2000 bond -it wasn't needed and was a political statement. People of all colors move all the time, they go where it is safe, where their children can ride their bikes without traffic, they go where the shops are, they move close to work, close to their family, their place of religion, etc. This is America, people that can afford to pay for their living arrangements get to make that choice. It is their right as an American. People that need financial assistance to pay for living arrangements must live where that housing is available. People that move to HP get to make the choice of where they live. They choose not to live downtown, but more in the subarbs.

Why would the BOE spend money at Andrews when they were already undercapacity with no available land for housing growth?

Redistricting is not as hard to understand when money for expansion is put where it should be, where the crowding is the worse... it shouldn't matter the color of the student, but how many students are crowded into classrooms, how many trailers, predicted growth etc.

There is no area more crowded than NW, yet more money was spent of the 2000 bond on other schools, for various reasons than the relief of overcrowding. It is political. Would the southern area of the county support a bond that gave all the money to the north, or would Greensboro support a bond if all money was spent in HP? You know the answer to that. We might be one county but taxpayers want part of the money spent in their area, so their kids get something new, some relief etc. It is human nature.

So, The Real Truth... as a person that was raised in Guilford County; a 'local' I know of what I speak. I am not a racist, I don't live in NHP. I am an informed parent that cares about education in our county. Not just my child. Every child deserves a quality education. I put my time and effort into trying to help achieve that goal. I volunteer about 20 hours a week in our schools.. I read, I study, I tutor, I blog and I stand up at school board meetings and vocalize my thoughts.

Most importantly I stand by what I say and use my real name when I post. I think it is time for you to add to the conversation in a positive way instead of slinging slurs and names at people.

Real Truth or Realistic parent or whatever you call your self.
I think you are onto something.

Racism/bigotism/hatred/younameit is really eating you up!

You are a NAAAAAAAASTY Human being.

RT,

I don't have any kids at Southwest. As a mattoer of fact, I, like Debora, don't love there, but we can both see the injust manner in which the people there have been treated.

Funny, but it seems that the one that is always talking about racism is you. You've got a pretty bad case there. You really should have someone take a look at it.

Skit,

A 16-year-old Page High student was arrested Tuesday night on charges that included carrying a gun - which was loaded - to Northeast's game, sheriff's deputies said.

No one was injured.

We'll have something in tomorrow's paper.

Stormy,
You may not have children in Southwest and you may not live in NHP, but you do have grandchildren that live in NHP and were directly affected by the HP choice plan.

It's much cheaper to overbuild at today's prices than at down the road higher prices. The increase in space for the Eastern facility is wise use of money. The Eastern project is more unique than the other schools in the sense they're starting from scratch.

I wouldn't consider that project to be an apples to apples comparison with respect to the construction needs of the other schools. Don't forget Eastern was burned to the ground, the others remain as viable entities.

It makes sense to spend more money at schools that are underachieving such as Andrews. Businesses typically allocate funds and more intense management to those divisions deemed needing attention. Of course, businesses can sell their underperforming divisions but we have a lifetime invested in the education of our kids. Again, common sense would dictate this decision.

M E D I A A D V I S O R Y

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

E.C. HUEY’S CANDIDACY FOR SCHOOL BOARD
TO BE ANNOUNCED TUESDAY

GREENSBORO (29 November 2006) – Guilford County 2008 School Board at-large candidate E.C. Huey will officially announce the kickoff of his countywide candidacy next Tuesday afternoon at 5:00 p.m. on the sidewalk in front of Guilford County Schools’ Administrative Offices on N. Eugene Street in downtown Greensboro. Mr. Huey will make a brief statement and will take questions from the news media.

Huey will then present remarks to the Guilford County Board of Education at its 6pm regular meeting.

Copies of Huey’s remarks will be made available to media representatives gathered. Supporters of his candidacy are invited to attend.

Commenting on last night’s Board meeting, Huey said, “Tuesday’s Board meeting and debate about the future of Eastern Guilford H.S. proves that there needs to be new leadership on the Board. I heard the “R” word [bond referendum] bantered around last night and I’ve gone on record saying that until the mismanagement of taxpayer money ceases, I will not support a bond referendum. I believe the System needs to be more fiscally conservative in putting its children first.”

tired of you,

Whether that is true or not, I still have seen the injustice heaped upon the people of NHP by this board for the past three years, especially at the hands of Susan Mendenhall and Dot Kearns. It's a disgrace. Maybe you should try walking a day in their shoes to learn what it's been like.

Oh, I also know who you are and where you live. Have a nice day.

realistic parent,
I agree that more money should be spent to assist the underperforming schools, however that money should not be in expansion, but in quality educators, programs, administrators, classroom materials, tutoring and other initiative that might actually increase knowledge and performance. As I have said for years, it is not the way a school looks that is important, but what goes on in the school is the real thing to be concerned about. Have you ever seen Laughlin or Summerfield Elementary? Old, buildings scattered all over the property, about 20 trailers, 100% over capacity; yet the education is the best in the county. The media center is in a 1950's home ec building, classrooms in the cement block building that was used in the 1940's for 'shop'-- not high class, but quality never the less.

Don't spend the money of the buildings if space is not needed... spend it on e-d-u-c-a-t-i-o-n.

Good Luck Mr. Huey

Dear Realistically Tired Parent of the Real Truth.

What a bore you are. When everyone on here is talking about Eastern, Construction and discipline you keep coming back to the same old drone!

FOr gods sake woman stop it. GO AWAY!

Take your hatred elsewhere!

Real Truth,

Hate is consuming you. Being a good person myself I worry for your health.

Take care.

deborah,

My oldest was at Eastern when the roof was taken off of the high school, the middle school roof was damaged and trees looked like a
giant axe came down and chopped them in half.

It is highly probable based on the storm patterns of previous years that the PODS will be in the direct path of a severe wind storm. I hope they have enough sense to remove all trees that could fall on top of these PODS and build deep enough trenches for them to jump into, because the middle school is going to be too far away based on the amount of warning we have had in the past! The year the roof was torn off the high school, the students were standing in the windows watching.
One teacher had them move away from the window just before the window broke.

This was one of many reasons we wanted them to take a serious look at leasing a solid structure.

How much are our childrens lives worth!! Yours!!

The $10 million that the county has already received was given to address the "immediate" need to find adequate housing for the "current" students, not help pad the cost of rebuilding a school that they will never step foot in.

These students have been through enough and deserve
a quality education in a safe location. All students in trailers are suppose to have another
structure to enter in case of severe weather!
By the way, we already have 10 trailers on site to house students that are suppose to attend Page and the cafeteria was 1/3 the size it needed to be.

The building at BS is still not up to fire code and may never be. They walk outside to the cafeteria and return to the classrooms to eat. However, they should be four times smarter than the average student since they can hear four teachers talking at the same time!!!

They are worried about the lack of windows at the Carolina Center...

I'd rather have walls that go up to the ceiling that you cannot hear right through and doors that close!!!

EG Parent,
all good points, especially the safety issue. Is/will the cafeteria and the other building left standing (not sure of the name) be available for use in tornado drills etc? I think that you should be asking the BOE about these options. The lack of a true building for safety is my only concern about pods, as the entire county has trailers, but we need to understand what plan they have for the evacuation of your children.

Summerfield kids and Laughlin kids also leave one of their buildings and go to a different building for lunch. Certainly not ideal, but real life.

Tell us more about the fire code violations at BS-- bring them to someone's attention that can fix them. Who would that be? Fire Marshall?

EG Parent,

Many of your concerns are real. There needs to be a brick building close that would be large enough to safely hold all the students in case of a tornado.

The concerns about walking outside to the cafeteria are not. Other elementary schools (Florence for one) have done this for years but there are roofs over the connecting sidewalks. At Jamestown Elementary students walk outside (no overhead roof) to another building for PE. At other schools, there are trailers with only some overhead shelter.

SWH has a few quads and they are different from the "trailers".

I have a friend whose high school burned down in her sophomore year. They housed the students in the local donated National Guard building and put up temporary wooden wall partitions (open above). She said the they got used to the noise and would fly paper airplanes over the walls. She went there for two years until a new building was built her senior year. They did have great teachers and the students did receive an adequate education under the circumstances. My point is this is a temporary solution in an emergency situation. Would the alternative be not having the students go to school?

The advantage to being on your own school site would be having your playing fields for sports and PE.

I would continue to question all safety issues and get those resolved.