News-Record.com

It looks to me as though HP Central is the lowest performing high school in the district, with the trned line downward from a low starting point 5 years ago. A serious intervention is needed there. Whatever is happening there isn't working, and Culinary Arts Magnets, and such, probably are not the answer.

Why do they have to estimate?

Cant they count? Its not a sarcastic question by the way.

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life.

That comment is directed towards the prior School Board roster.

Seriously though, is anyone surprised? Dr. Grier and those School Board members he has in his back pocket are all to blame. One wonders how a contract extension would have turned out for him if this information was discussed back then or more wisely if a decision about an extension was delayed until the new Board membership could have input and a vote in the decision.

After this, I see where Grier deserved a contract extension. I will have a full response to this on the blog section of my Web site around the lunch hour later today. But as a taxpayer, I once again feel like I'm getting ripped off.

E.C. Huey
www.hueyforguilfordschoolboard.org

Well, it's a good thing Dr. Grier was awarded his contract extension before these scores were released. If he has ever crossed paths with an Ethics course he would resign right now.

I'll never believe that School Board which granted his extension last month was unaware of these scores. You can't tell me that it takes 6 months for the $125K Statistician to compile this data.

Amos said at the last school board meeting that problems at Dudley started in 1999 with redistricting. What lines changed then?

in addition: form 04-05 Dudley climbed way up, Grimsley dropped, then from 05-06, Dudly dropped way down, and Grimsley went way up. Is this due to redistricting?

Buck,

Of course, the board knew about these graduation rates. You will recall that Allen wrote in his editorial that student achievement was rising within the district??? So, did Allen know about these graduation rates when he wrote that, and if he did, how did he reconcile this data with achievement?

debora,

Weren't there a good number of students moved from Grimsley to Dudley in this timeframe, perhaps to redistricting? Seems like I recall some conversation about that in the past. I'm sure that Morgan or Jennifer can provide us with this information.

Debora,

At the redistricting work session held by the board in January, Amos mentioned the fact that Dudley had low socioeconomic students from Grimsley redistricted to Dudley via the 1999 redistricting. He mentioned that while ALL children were welcome at Dudley, additional resources should have been provided with the reassignment of these fragile children.

The same has happened in High Point. The board reassigned fragile children to Southwest with NO additional resources. The resources went to Welborn and Andrews - the same schools the children left!

Look at the trend - redistricting has failed these children.

This is more proof that neighborhood schools work.

Social engineering fails.

I am a Dudley parent and believe first assessing the needs of the children must take place before solutions can be talked about ... so many of our children have been socially promoted but retained in their learning abilities, they become frustrated and fail to make the grade ... we have to begin to assess the needs of each student before problems can be addressed ... has anyone asked the students what they need ... anyone that can truly make a difference. And I am not talking about the children who are succeeding, but the ones that need the help ... ask them what they need to succeed and the responses will probably surprise us all.

Dear Olga,
First welcome to the forum! You sound like someone with alot of common sense, something that does not run rampant in the GCS. I firmly believe that social promotion was the beginning of the downfall of the public education system. Children that do not meet a minimum standard become frustrated, act out, skip school and then get farther and farther behind.

We have spent millions of dollars on special programs, magnets, etc.. when it is obvious that the basics are being missed.

Of course if a child can't be taught to read,(mental limitations, etc) then there is another problem. We need parents to GET INVOLVED! Yes, I am yelling. Kids have to be able to identify the alphabet and numbers prior to school. Reading must be a family endeavor, and yes I realize that if you are worried about paying the rent, feeding your family that reading might not be a top priority, but it is the only way to break the poverty circle.

I have always believed that all families like my own, want their kids to 'do better' than the parents. I know my father dropped out of school, got his GED in the Navy and insisted that I would go to college. There was never a discussion-- just an accepted fact, that no matter what I would go to college. Even after his death, when I was 16, I never even thought about not going to college. Everyone must try to 'do better' and it starts at home.

As a community, we need to identify needs of our children and do the best we can, we the money that we have. Unfortunitely often our BOE has pet issues that waste time and money and never address education.

We, as a community, cannot always wait on funding which may or may not be received to provide a quality education for our children. I am always disappointed when the determining factor becomes whether or not a child received a free and/or reduced lunch. And lastly, why are people so reactionary vs. proactive ... the same problems occur with the same schools year after year and it is only when a governmental report is published that anything happens ... as if we should be surprised.

Above posters,

To answer your questions: the district started tracking with the state in 2002 the actual number of freshmen from each grade; however they have not yet released those numbers. The district did not have pure counts last year when it started using the Cumulative Promotion Index, which uses a formula (graduation and enrollment numbers) to approximate the number of freshmen who graduated. The CPI is more of a probability that is believed to more accurately show graduation rates than the previous method of only tracking seniors.

Dr. Grier said the district will likely continue using CPI along with the new formula since it already has data from 2002 to provide comparisons.

I am checking on the redistricting issue so I don't know yet the connections between Dudley and Grimsley.

Last, I'm not sure what connection the board members could have made between the rates and Grier's contract extension. They received the same data last year and if you look at the numbers, there were some declines. The board certainly could have taken this into consideration for Grier's evaluation this year. Not only that, Grier is the one who signed off on using CPI, even though he knew the rates would be lower. If he was so concerned about his job, why would he do that for two years?

The numbers are erratic, to be sure. We're just trying to find out why the dramatic changes at Grimsley and Dudley.

Hasn't the Governor mandated the use of CPI?

No, but CPI has been recommended by the U.S. Governors Association. Check page 16 of: http://www.nga.org/Files/pdf/0507GRAD.PDF

Was it just me, or did anyone else notice the three articles today that seemed to tie together? First, the article stating that there is more poverty in the Greensboro suburban area. Second, an article on low reading scores. Could there be a connection between the first and second? Then, an article on lower graduation rates. Again, could there be a connection between the second and last?

And Mr. Grier needs to check the numbers and finds the middle schools not getting the job done. Well, students who can't read are passed along, the middle schools do what they can and they are again passed along and then can't pass the tests to graduate or leave because they see the handwriting on the wall.

A heads up to the central office staff, who just love numbers, statistics, and the like. You do not teach numbers to read, you teach children . . . sentient human beings. And human beings are not a SS#, a set of demographic statistics and some test scores. Working the numbers, leveraging middle class students (whom we are running out of, apparently)is clearly not working and will never work.

I recommend David Brooks' column from Tuesday to see what might best be done to achieve any sort of fix.

Am I reading this headline correctly?
Feds bar Guilford tutoring program
Guilford County Schools won’t be able to offer extra after-school tutoring because the district failed to meet federal test goal measures, a state official said.

Am I correct in understanding that because we're FAILING the federal government won't allow us to offer tutoring?

I am still trying to understand the concept behind that idea as well Cheryl ... our children don't make the grade so the Federal Government takes away funding for tutoring ... which maybe would help them make the grade ... when you figure it out and understand the reasoning please let me know ... I am currently paying for private tutoring for my son who attends Dudley High School because it is not available to him because he doesn't receive free and/or reduced lunch ... can I afford the extra money for tutoring - no ... can my child afford for me not to spend the extra money ... no ... he is however improving and that is the main objective ...

I believe the school day needs to be extended and funds provided through the GCS budget to allow tutoring for ALL CHILDREN who demonstrate the slightest decrease in grade points at the beginning of the school year, not at the end of the first semester. Our principals can't do it alone.

Tutoring needs to be offered to ALL students who need it regardless of their FRL status. Children are offered speech, ESOL if they need it and classes for slow learners or one-on-ones for behaviroral or other issues. Why can't tutoring be given to ALL students who need it?

Barbara Ann,
you know the reason we can't offer tutoring to all students>>> MONEY- everything is about money. What do we cut to offer the tutoring... I have a million ideas, but our opinions aren't wanted.

Breaking news on the local news:

The fire at Eastern was intentionally set.

...from my blog, updated today....BTW, welcome Olga.

12-7-06...THIS BLOG WILL WRITE ITSELF

...Let me tell you why. For it is because this blog will hopefully do something no other local Guilford County-area blog will do; exclusively expose the truth about local public education. That is what this campaign is about.

Case in point, the two headlines in today’s News & Record. Front Page: Graduation Rate Dives at Dudley. (Correction…should read ‘graduation rate dives at area’s highly-impacted schools.’) And the related story in the Metro section: Feds Bar Guilford Tutoring Program.

Terry Grier says himself: “it’s unclear.” Why is this unclear? Honestly, does this school system have a clue? And throw in Dudley alum and School Board member Amos Quick, who also finds it interesting. “It definitely has me in an uproar,” he tells the N&R. Why does this have you in an uproar, sir? With all due respect, it is the failed policies of this system and Board that has gotten us into this mess, a system led by Dr. Terry Grier, the man you, Amos Quick, extended a contract to recently, and the man whose salary you raised not long ago, but teachers can’t get basic supplies to do their jobs with in these highly impacted schools.

Why is it that Grimsley , Northwest , and Page can do it but Andrews and Central and others cannot? Dudley’s graduation rate declined 39%; that is enough for a countywide outrage; our schools are in a state of emergency…is anyone listening down on Eugene Street?

Look at the related story…the system is about to be hit with sanctions because GCS failed to meet federal reading goals for two years in a row. Grier tells the N&R: “…these sanctions will not have a lot of impact” because GCS already provide teacher training and include parental input as part of its so-called district improvement plan. But you have Debbie Maines from the county council of PTAs who says she learned of the status through an e-mail NOT sent by GCS. There’s a fundamental problem here with our schools. The problem WILL NOT be solved by talking about diversity or more money. The solution is to quit wasting money, GCS, and to start putting the necessary resources into our high-impact schools NOW! Redistricting is not working. Mission Possible? Not working? Pull whatever “fix-it-quick” program NOW and start educating our children…

P.S....my heart goes out again to the Eastern Guilford family. Now that it appears that the fire was arson, that obviously changes the whole equation about "what next." Let's all continue to keep these families in your thoughts and prayers and we'll have to stay tuned to see the 'what next.'

E.C. Huey
2008 Guilford Co. School Board at-large candidate
www.hueyforguilfordschoolboard.org

Dr. Grier was very happy with those big fat checks he was receiving the other night. He could not stop smiling.
I hope all of that money goes to the kids and not to his wallet!

Eligible students can still get the after-school tutoring at schools under the tutoring sanction. Guilford just can't be the provider of that service.

The extra after-school tutoring through No Child Left Behind is offered from outside providers but can include programs created by a school district. The state approved 15 providers - one of which was the district's program - to offer the extra help in Guilford this school year.

Because the district failed the federal Adequate Yearly Progress measures, it can't run its own after-school program (Note: This is only for the extra help, not regular tutoring programs).

So students who were signed up for Guilford's tutoring program will be reassigned to the other 14 providers who are offering tutoring at the schools under that AYP sanction.

The tutoring coming from an outside source makes sense to me. After all, this school system is totally FAILING those kids. Why would they want tutoring from the same people?

If a doctor never helps, only makes you feel worse, would you want that doctor to keep trying to make you well? I don't think so. Grier is that bad doctor!!! He doesn't know how to help our kids. He will keep trying stupid stuff but he doesn't really care if it works.

The total Graduation numbers from last year to this stayed flat but Females increased 2% and males decreased about 2%.

We now graduate 12% (79%) more females per year than males (67%).

Thats not good! We need to close the achievement gap here.

On the bright side I guess Deena will not be complaining.

Jennifer or Morgan,

I may be wrong, but I thought that GCS received permission to offer extra tutoring in lieu of students at failing schools be eligible for transfer out of a failing school? If this is correct, then wouldn't a cfonsequnce of this be that they now must offer transfer to students in failing schools instead of extra tutoring? Is this correct?

I saw an interesting editorial in the Carolina Journal today that spoke to how school districts can make school bonds appealing. One of the more interesting was Forsyth County that just got a $250 million bond approved with a 65% favorable vote. Here are some selected passages:

"Forsyth County voters will support a bond if the school system is efficient and gives parents choices."

"The strong support for the bond was not suprising. Parents have had many reaons to be pleased with the Winston-Salem/Forsyth County Schools. As I have pointed out elsewhere, Forsyth County's building program is a model of efficiency and excellence."

This is a county school system that recently built two high schools at a cost of $24 million each. GCS is still building Northern, and they report that the cost will be in the neighborhood of $51 million, more than two schools in Forsyth County. GCS is now saying that it will cost $51 million to rebuild Eastern, and they already own the land.

GCS should take note of this when they come to the voters next year and ask for a school bond approval. Effcient and excellent, they are not. They need to take note that voters in Charlotte/Mecklenburg rejected a bond last year for $427 million, and voters rejected a $45 million bond in Franklin County this year. It would seem that GCS needs to prove itself as efficient and excellent for a few years before they come to voters for a school bond.

Deb,

Ditto on your answer. It was a rhetorical question and I knew the answer. We could go on and on about where the money SHOULD go.

BTW, your post on each generation doing better was well put. The value of education must start in the homes and at an early age. Instead of the latest X box or game boys, parents could buy some books. We should not keep blaming our teachers. They can only do so much. If a child chooses not to learn, there is not much a teacher can do. And the other part is some children are not going to be doctors, lawyers and engineers. Everyone has different levels of intelligence, different skills, and learns in different ways. Some kids just want to get a job after school so it would be great if they had a marketable trade that would get them through life easier. Then there are those children who are lost and just do not want to be in school. These are the ones who disrupt the education of others and need and alternative school setting. You cannot "save" every child, but we are losing the students who want to learn to private schools and home schooling because of the discipline problems in our school, and for some, the constant redistricting socioeconomic experiments that do not work.

With regard to tutoring vs transfers I thought I read the schools were granted the option to provide tutoring over transferring. As Jennifer explained, GCS can still "provide" tutoring; the services just can't be "performed" by them.

JENNIFER, are you saying that the regular after schools tutoring by our teachers will still be provided to ALL students who want it?

Also I have one more comment to add on the tutoring subject. It would be great if all students who actually needed tutoring would go. But this is not the reality for many. Either their parents don't send them or the students are too busy with other after school activities or for some older kids, it's an "embarrassment" and they simply refuse to go. It is the parents and students who need to take advantage of the services offered. You can't make them.

Guilford County does not need bonds to build schools. They can simply borrow the money and raise taxes. The voter bonds just passes the buck to the people.

It doesn't matter much how the schools and financed. The result is the the same: taxes go up.

Stormy,

The pilot was to switch the sanctions, offering tutoring first instead of transfers. Guilford can still do that, they just can't be one of the providers of the tutoring now.

Barbara Ann,

I don't know what the rules are for the district's other tutoring programs. So I can't say that ALL students who ask for it will get it.

I just know that what the district is prohibited from providing at this point is the special tutoring related to Adequate Yearly Progress/No Child Left Behind.

I'm a school teacher and offer free tutoring after school for all of my students (like most teachers do). In fact, many schools require teachers to offer a certain amount of tutoring each week or month (for no extra compensation). However, very few parents and students take advantage of this. Lack of funds should not affect students getting extra help from their teachers. Teachers are there to help and many teachers would love students to come by after school so that they could get the extra help that they need.

Jennifer,

Thanks for clearing-up my confusion on the tutoring matter.

Andi,
Any quality teacher would do the same. Notice which adjective I used. Sadly not all teachers deserve that description.

Tutoring before or after school is s problem for many due to lack of transportation. Usually the ones that need it the most, don't have the way to get/stay at school. Often the older students don't let their parents know this opportunity is there, and those parents aren't usually the ones that try to find out. Again a vicious circle.

Morgan,

Is the reality of arson the reason why the board was concerned that the state might not be cooperative with GCS' claim? Did they suspect or have some knowledge that arson might be involved?

And, what does the insurance policy say as regards a loss that is determined to be arson, i.e., intentional loss. Is this why the board decided to hire a loss management specialist to negotiate the claim?

Stormy,

Morgan is off today. I spoke with Wanda Frazier, who oversees the district's insurance program, and she said there is no arson exclusion rule so the district is still covered. She heard yesterday about the arson ruling and went through the policy looking for any mention of exclusions. If I get a chance to speak with her again today I'll ask about why they hired a loss management specialist.

Good day everyone. My new website has almost hit 200 visitors in the few days it has been live. Thanks to all of you who are in support of the early days of the campaign to unseat Dot Kearns. If you haven't been yet, please visit hueyforguilfordschoolboard.org, sign my guest book, browse my pages, read published statements, see my positions and more. I look forward to your anticipated support.

E.C. Huey
unofficial at-large candidate, Guilford Co. Brd. of Education 2008
www.hueyforguilfordschoolboard.org

What was all the fuss earlier this year about
a 2.98% drope out rate. Best of large school systems in America.

"Lies, Damm lies, and Statistics"

The people running our schools could not organize a church picnic.

Most could not find their behind with a flash light.

At the school my kid attends, the teachers offer their time freely several hours a day after school ends on certain days to tutor their students. Their dedication is to be commended.

My child has stayed after school on several occasions receiving further instruction and has commented that typically there are few who take advantage of this offer.

Dear Realistic parent,
Do you provide transportation for your student? Many can not do so and usually they are the most in need. I took my child in early for tutoring one day. That teacher had 8 students that day, but again, if you have to be at work at 8, you can't drop off your child at school at 7:30 without any supervision.

Is there transportation provided to the students who want to stay for tutoring? If so what time would the students who ride the bus a long time now get home?

Our students that have been identified by teachers as level one or two are getting tutoring and there is transportation. Not sure if our school has to pay for the transportation or if the district does. They get home 5:30 or so... about one hour later than most kids.

Can someone explain to me why teachers are held responsible for graduation rates?? If a student drops out, how can a teacher control that?? It's not their fault that the parent(s) won't make their kid go to school.....

Debora,

My child will stay after school to review a complex topic with a teacher. Even though my child is not being tutored on a set schedule he still is able to get Guilford transportation home, though he's too impatient and one of us picks him up anyway.

so does anyone know if GCS provides a second set of buses for every school to run if people stay for additional help with school? If so, doesn't that mean that the route would be different daily depending on who stays? How does that work? At our school, it is a set group of students and they have to make a route once they know the kids, and I believe it is two days a week.

I guess no one knows about whether buses are available at EVERY SCHOOL ... I, again, when asked for tutoring assistance for my son was told first the funds were not yet available and then when the funds became available because my son didn't receive free and reduced lunch tutoring was not available to him ... my son is a student at Dudley High School.

Debora:
You made the comment level 1 and 2 students receive tutoring AND transporation ... is that ALL students within this school. Just wondering.

Not sure how the students are identified,but think it is from prior testing, teacher recommendation. All students that have parental permission to stay are asked if they need transportation. At our school the number of level 1's and 2's is relatively small percentage. We are in the county and our area covers probably 30 miles from one end to the other (NWMS)

Everyone is missing the big picture by trying to lay the blame on teachers or money. If it was the teachers or money, than nobody who had the teacher or received the money would graduate. Yet, most do graduate.

The reason most students don't graduate is because they don't attend school on a regular basis or drop out or are expelled. Tutoring won't stop this. More money won't stop this. This has to be stopped in the home and that requires facing some unpleasant realities.