News-Record.com

Your story today quoted Grier as saying his idea is "audacious". In as much as "shameless" is a synonym for "audacious", I'd say he is right. If you are leading a school system that is leading the league in low graduation rates and low-performing schools, proposing to pay for two years of community college defines shameless.

Would the taxpayers of this county be willing to pay additional taxes to expand educational opportunities for the county's students? Sure, they would, if and when Grier shows that the schools can actually provide a sound educatonal foundation for those students by the time that they graduate from high school. To be proposing that we pay for two years of community college when 60% of those require remedial work when they arrive at community colege is nothing other than absurd, foolhardy, and irresponsible. Let's get our act together in first 12 years of public school before we adopt some hairbrain idea from Dr. Innovation.

If remedial classes are included in the proposal, isn't this just shifting the responsibility for education from GCS to GTCC?

What are the estimated costs if remedial classes are excluded?

The idea of encouraging every high school graduate to attend college is laudable. However, the proposal to offer free education to all (or, is it only academically qualified--it's not clear from the comments or the article) high school graduates needs careful thought. One need look no further than the state of Georgia's HOPE scholarship program to see what problems are likely to arise: a feeling of entitlement (hey, someone is paying for me to be here, now give me an A); no real incentive to attend college except that it's better than working; no incentive for parents to save money for their children's education--which leaves kids stuck paying for their education or dropping out of college when the two years of free coursework ends; and on and on.

As Paula wrote, we want to promote more education. Dr. Grier's proposal needs much more thought, however.

First, there has not been a clear statement of the problem. GTCC has low tuition, about $1,300 per year for a full-time student. This makes it affordable to most, though certainly not all students in Guilford County. For disadvantaged students, there are several types of financial aid. In the worst case, loans are available. Many students already attend. The county may end up paying a lot of money to students who would have attended GTCC anyway without greatly increasing attendance among other students.

Second, any program would need to be careful to promote responsible behavior. For instance, when Gene Lang instituted the "I Have a Dream" scholarship program offering 4 years of college funding to 6th grade students in New York, he conditioned it on the successful completion of high school and on several other criteria. He also quickly realized that the students needed lots of additional support beyond the scholarships. The "I Have a Dream" programs are much more generous and comprehensive than what Dr. Grier has proposed; nevertheless, they have been only modestly successful.

Third, a subsidy to one type of educational activity might get students to substitute from others. Consider a student who is just on the margin between attending a 2- and a 4-year school; she might be tempted to go with the 2-year option.

There are already many collaborations between GCS and the surrounding colleges and universities. Further collaboration would be great, it just needs to be done carefully.

Grier said he believes if the school system adopted the program "we would quickly become one of the best-educated communities not only in our state, but in our country."

Grier’s proposal is still in the early stages, but he estimates the program’s costs would range from $9.6 million over two years if low-income graduates participated, to $21.3 million over two years if all current seniors graduated and participated.

Board members differed on whether they wanted to restrict the program to GTCC or open eligibility to other colleges in Guilford County or elsewhere.

"I think it’s potentially revolutionary for our country," board member Amos Quick said.

The board is crazy

We never finish anything.

We have a large number of kids graduating that read on an 8th grade level and do arithmetic on a 5th grade level. If,that well.
Try and focus on fixing this "Expletive"

We build schools that are potentially dangerous
Dudley and Smith are in the Top 100 schools in America ( What does that tell you)
Remedial/ Developmental is the largest division at GTCC. I guess if they all get scholarships the
school system can stop worrying about educating them. GTCC will do it

We have financial aid for students what's wrong with that?

"Revolutionary"
I'm sorry Mr quick but education is not stand up comedy.

Just do your job. Stop planning for the Nobel Prize.

Your (GCS) Quality Certification was revoked.
Your always coming hat in hand for more money for the budget
All this doesn't worry Terry he is on to the next pie in the sky.

Kind of Mission Accomplished.

The conditions of the program should be:

1. It is open to all students regardless of income. Why would businesses want to move here to pay more taxes to promote low income students already live here. This opportunity should be a county attraction for ALL students. This may get more children back in public school who left for the private sector.

2. Scholarship money cannot be used for remedial courses. Taxpayers are already paying for a 12 year education. Our high schools need to be successful FIRST.

3. There should be a requirement to maintain at least a C-B average so students aren't just using this for a free place to hang out.

4. Local businesses should be footing some of the bill to help "grow" future employees.

Let's see, it's fantasy time, right. Allright, I'll take a Palm Beach mansion, Ferrari in the driveway, Cristal by the case, and dancing around my pool will be Beyonce, Nicole Kidman, Salma Hayek, Shakira and that American Indian girl who played Pochahantas in that John Smith movie. (You can tell, Dottie taught me well.) I would of course invite Puff Daddy, or P. Diddy or just Diddy but i wouldn't know how to adresss the daggone invitation.

Like Terry said in the N&R article, all I have to do is find a way to pay for it...and utilizing, of course, the number one tenant of the Book of Grier, whether it's eating at the Chop House or traveling the country expounding on educational innovation- using somebody else's money.

Tell you what, Terry. Now, call me crazy, but don't you think it would be better to first get the kids out of the trailers? Or at least get the SE Middleschool kids out of the lawn mower shed where they are taking their technology classes?

Good evening...I'm planning comments on this for Thursday's meeting and a blog entry for my website blog tomorrow, Tuesday. I have a lot of questions regarding this proposal as well and I'm very uneasy about the high cost. Read more tomorrow....

E.C. Huey
candidate, Guilford Co. Brd. of Education at-large 2008

Help me here.

I thought our school board and superintendent were responsible for K-12.
Not cradle to grave.

What gives then the right to authorize a county employee ( Dr. Grier ) to go off and do this? Last I looked the scope of the school board and Superintendent stopped with GCS. Period, end of debate.

We are not paying them to run the rest of our lives. They can’t get the schools right.
Now they are into higher education. Maybe they can screw that up.

I’m serious. Are they authorized to do this? Enough is enough.

As the law is currently written a student over the age of 16 can be dually enrolled at the local community college. Dual enrollment requires approval of the student's school. They must take college level classes, no remedial classes, and they can not take more than 1/2 of their academic work at the community college. Their tuition is covered, but they must pay for books and other fees and they must provide their own transportation. Using this provision of the law has allowed plenty of home schooled students to graduate high school at age 18 with large portions of their 2 year degree completed. There are currently plenty of opportunities for students to further their education at the community college level.

If Grier gets his way, will the county also cover transportation costs for attending college? How much control will he want the GCS to have over the subjects being studied? This sounds like an extension of public school. When will they institute standardize testing to determine if the student is being successful?

Morgan and Jennifer,

Dr. Childs asked for an assessment of the VSN program at the last board meeting. I just noticed that there's a revised agenda for the January 25 meeting, but there's no staff report listed for this.

Do you have a status?

Numbers,

I'll check. Did he ask for it to be ready by this meeting? I didn't think he had, but I might have missed hearing a deadline.

Numbers,

Dr. Childs asked for "an independent audit into the effectiveness of the VSN program including costs". The motion that passed was for an internal study to be conducted "immediately" by Dr. Zhang. No other timetable was established that I am aware of. Given the bounds established by the motion, I suspect that there may need to be extensive data gathering.

Jennifer/Morgan

How would a GCS determine who qualifies for this program based on income if the program is only offered to low income students?

I thought the Department of Agriculture said that FRL numbers could only be used to determine who qualifies for FRL?

Question(s):

1. Doesn't Dr. Grier's authority stop at 12th grade?

2. I worked my tush off for 8 solid years getting through undergrad and grad school, working, paying bills, etc. And yes, I WAS "LOW INCOME"! Why should these kids get a free ride through "13th grade" courtesy of the taxpayer? Is this any way to teach responsibility? What's wrong with working your way through college? That's how we did it in the old days.

What if these kids graduate and move out of state? Where's the return on our investment?

Meisteriehrer,

His authority stops at 12 grade but his business connections (money poured back into the community to promote "Guilford County Schools)do not. Look recently at $500,000 spent by Action Greensboro for a PR campaign for our schools. He has much influence in the business and college communities.

That is a great point about students moving out of state, but that can happen to any of our North Carolina students, moving and taking their skills with them. One goal of the program, as I understand, is for Guilford County to offer something unique to attract businesses to this area. If businesses come and jobs are here, many skilled employees will stay where the jobs are.

Also, the scholarships could be tied to a stipulation that you owe so many working years to Guilford County or the money has to be paid back. There are teacher programs like that now, where you must teach for so many years in Guilford County if they pay for part of your education. This could be worked out.

JENNIFER/MORGAN:

WHAT IS THE ANSWER ON THE "FRL" DATA? SINCE THIS CANNOT BE USED TO DETERMINE STUDENTS OF NEED, HOW WILL THE SCHOOL SYSTEM DECIDE WHO QUALIFIES?

You can download my comments on this from last night's meeting on my website, click on my name below...

E.C.

From earlier response:
"His authority stops at 12 grade but his business connections (money poured back into the community to promote "Guilford County Schools)do not. Look recently at $500,000 spent by Action Greensboro for a PR campaign for our schools. He has much influence in the business and college communities"

This says it all. Five hudred thousand dolars spent telling people how good we are.
Why not spend it on improving us?

David,

My sentiments exactly. Many of us have been saying for the past several years, "We want to be good - not just look good."

I had a friend visiting from out of state who saw a GCS commercial on TV. She asked me, "If your schools are so good, why would they pay to advertise? These are public schools. I think it would scare outsiders away."

With the recent NCLB laws and pressures put on teachers and principals meeting certain criteria,this will not change in the near future. See attached article from Stateline.org entitled "Lake Wobegon, U.S.A. -- where all the children are above average." This article explains much. Link is: http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=172668

It is so easy to spend another person's money.

Board member Amos Quick said he thought the idea was "revolutionary."

I don't believe Mr. quick finished college.

But he is qualified to tell us how to educate children?

People elected him.

You know a while back I went to one of those silly city meetings on choosing a police chief. For
a giggle. I was asked by the "facilitator" what I wanted in a police chief. I told them and I quote
"I'm not qualified to select a police chief"
Only an idiot would want my advice. However I looked around the room and did not see anyone that was qualified. We will probably get an ex sex offender. But people, diversity, human relations, etc sensitive.

We have become a strange country.

Our superentendent is graduating significant numbers of kids that put quite simply can't function at an adult level. Whats his solution
Another "VISION". On the School WEB page ( Dr. Griers Desk) he desribes himself as "innovative".

Well I say why stop with local colleges lets go right for the Ivy league. Think Big. World Class.

Striving, Achieving, Excelling,
So it is written so it shall come to pass.

Did Enron have Mission statement? Does any one know?

"To become the world's leading energy company".

Where are you,
The district has not decided if it will limit the scholarship to FRL students. If it does, schools can ask parents to release the data when students apply for the scholarship so they can find out income and if they qualify for FRL. Similar information is given for any needs-based scholarship.

What would be revolutionary would be a better emphasis on vocational education. Click on my name below which will take you to my website blog; I have some ideas on how GCS can create a better focus on vocational education.

E.C. Huey