News-Record.com

Okay, I am looking over these but first remind me... all kids have to make a 3 or 4 on each of these tests, isn't that correct?

Now the numbers look weird. Look how many tests in English are taken at Smith Academy or HP Academy.. how about Eastern. Looks like there is barely one class worth of kids. When are these kids going to take English? I guess on block they can choose the semester to take the class.

Someone refresh my memory on all of the EOC stuff. My guess is that the kids taking Alg 1 in HS are the ones that either moved to this district in 9th grade or didn't pass the EOC in 8th; since most take the class in 8th grade now.

Eastern is on a block schedule.

At Eastern, there was a Freshman Academy. Most of the 9th graders are taking English 9 this semester due to the fact that the English teachers were teaching the Freshman Academy.

At Eastern the majority of students that do well in math are taking Algebra II as Freshman with some taking Geometry. Algebra I in high school is for students that moved into the district or it is for students which struggled with math or were not challenged in middle school.

Jennifer,
How do we interpret the results?
What does the I - IV stand for?

Debora,
They must be taking it again after failing.

In my opinion, in general these results are terrible.

100% of the children at Smith's academy scored below grade level in Algebra II. In English I only 20% were above grade level.

That is absolutely Disgusting! How can that be even possible?

Who is Grier going to blame now? When is he going to be made accountable by the school board? An explanation is needed NOW.

If you click on the district level you can browse through each subject. In the "percent at achievement levels" under the II/IV column you can see the percentage of kids at or above grade level. By looking at each subject in the same column and the "total" my estimate is that we pass less than 50% of the kids. Algebra 1 has a total percentage pass rate of 26%.

Is this what Dr.Grier calls "excelling"? Its REALLY bad!

If students don't pass Albegra I in 8th, and don't pass it in 9th how many times do they have to keep taking it? Will these students be able to graduate if they can't pass Algebra I then II? How many opportunites will they get? Will they have to go to summer school? If this is the case, there are a lot of students not making Level III or IV.

Questions,
There is another option. If they pass the class the school administrator may excercise discretionary authority and evaluate them on a portfolio basis to pass the class.

Do they have to pass Algebra II now?

I dont understand why people arent more angry about this. There are real issues here. Scores are way down from last year!!!!

We are about 20% lower passing rate than Charlotte.

The school board must be mad! They have to stop the rot!!

E.C. Huey has been asking the same thing over on his blog, why isn't anyone else outraged?

Jennifer,

Last year you published a comparison excel file of 04-06 and 05-06. I have still have that file and have compared to 06-07.

For Algebra I 05-06 we were at 42% on or above grade level. For 06-07 we are at 21%!!!!!

For English 1 05-06 we were at 69% on or above grade level. For 06-07 we are at 58%!!!!!

For Algebra II 05-06 we were at 73% on or above grade level. For 06-07 we are at 43%!!!!!

The academy at Smith failed 100% of their kids in Algebra II! How much money is this costing?

The good news is that according to Dr Grier the tests were re-normed and much work needs to be be done!!

There is always an excuse with this guy. When are we going to wake up?

Why can Charlotte score almost 20% higher than we can? Even with the re-norming they score higher than we did "last" year.....

What does the News and Record think of this?????

OUTRAGEDSTATMAN,

I guess those old yellow bumper stickers said it all.

OUTRAGEDSTATMAN

I heard the commissioners and Amos Quick got an earful last night from many teachers at the NCAE meeting. The teachers talked about all the new programs that are tried, fail, and then replaced by other new programs. They spoke about the Smith Academy and Misson Possible, among other subjects.

The commissioners were not pleases and said they weren't "aware of all this". They are now. My friend said it was like a Southern Revival. Amos has his passion back.

The discussion was also about the lack of TAs in classrooms and why so many teachers are leaving Guilford County. I would imagine this has a negative affect on the EOC scores.

Dr. Grier's response to all of this is very predictable. He will say that he doesn't have enough money. The federal government has too many unfunded mandates. He will need to build a dozen new academies and be given a new teacher recruiting and retention tool bigger and better than Mission Impossible. We've heard it all before.

Thanks for the comparison-- I was mad before and now I am sick to my stomach! Here is a copy of the letter I sent to all BOE and Dr. Grier.

Good Morning,
As a concerned citizen, it is very disturbing that our first semester scores for the basic HS courses are so dismal. I don't see that we are making any progress for our children! Compared to Charlotte/Mecklenburg we are behind in every subject except geometry. Some subjects we had more than 20% fewer children pass the EOC than Charl/Meck!

I know that you are always wondering how we can do better, but it seems obvious to anyone that can read (which at this point does not seem to be our students) that we are not making any progress. We have to do more, work smarter and harder for our students. They are our future and at this point the world will be in trouble if we are hoping for GCS students to be leaders.

Only 58.6% passed English compared to 79.3 in Charl/Meck

21.6% passed Algebra 1 (although many of our students did pass this as 8th graders so this is skewed)

43.9% passed Algebra 2-the same for Biology

I don't have any answers, but as a taxpayer and parent I hope to hear more about education during meetings- some clear and concise plans on how we are going to jerk ourselves out of the cellar.
We don't need new magnets and cool bells and whistles if we can't even teach our kids to read and pass the minimum requirements to graduate.

I have high hopes that Mission Possible will work, and I know it might take time, but it didn't seem to help much in one semester. Now about half of our kids will have to repeat many, many courses. Perhaps traditional courses and schedules with longer times for each class is the answer. We will not know how the four schools on traditional schedules do until the end of school, but I strongly suggest that a comparison be made between the two. The schedule is only a tool, but that plus stronger teachers might make a difference.

We need a new strong direction and the public is looking to you to be the leaders for that direction. Don't let our children down.

Debora Mauser
NWMS PTSA President
644-6466

Stormy,

The teacher's union doesn't like Mission Possible because its a step in the right direction, paying teachers for merit as upossed to the socialist way they have been paid in the past (based on tenure). Mission Possible applyies business / economic common sense to teacher pay. Art teachers don't like and PE teachers don't like it because it values reading and math teachers. While art teachers and PE teachers are worthy, they don't have to meet an EOG standard and therefore their disciplines are less valued (President Bush's NCLB not Dr Grier.)Teachers find it threatening. Its a great program and Dr Grier and the school board showed great leadership in changing an system of pay that is simply wrong.

You Grier Haters make me laugh. Your posts are so inconsistent. One minute you trash Grier and the BOE for being too liberal and the next you trash them for being conservative. I bet you would crawl into a cave with Osama Bin Laden if he said he didn't like Dr Grier or Dot! Your hatred consumes your every thought!

The Real Truth

On the EOC scores,
Jennifer and I will likely wait until we can get preliminary results on the spring exams before we do a fuller story on this. The number of students taking tests were so small in the fall that we think any conclusions we draw would become irrelevant by the summer. In addition, I am used to comparing full year data and have not compared fall semester data here before; hence I don't know if these type of scores typically occur in the fall or not. Fortunately, we will be able to compare scores to last year, but not to any before that. However, I too wonder about some of these scores, such as at the Academy at Smith.

You are a real comedian, R.T. I'm not sure that I have ever seen "Grier" and "great leader" ever used in the same sentence before. If he is your benchmark for great leadership, your bar height is so low that a snail could leap it in a single bound.

I stand by my comments. Grier will always answer critics of his many failures with the excuse that he just doesn't have enough money. Of course, in his case, there will never be enough money. I'll say, though, that you sure are familiar with hate. You live with it every day.

Stormy, I'm going to have to agree with Real Truth on this one when it comes to "running the schools like a business." So the question is does Grier stay or go if you run the schools like a business. Do certain Board members stay if you run the schools like a business.

Once again it comes back to the stockholders taking control of the Board and putting qualified business people on the Board. The results of last year's election were a step in the right direction. Unfortunately placing more bond money under the guidance of the current Board membership would be an example of poor Stewardship on the part of the stockholders of Guilford County.

Nice touch Real Truth saying that Grier haters would share a cave with Osama. That cave would have to be pretty big for openers.

But since you brought Osama up, did you hear the one about Chelsea Clinton in Iraq? Chelsea was there interviewing the troops when she asked a Marine the 3 things he feared the most. His reply was:

1. Osama
2. Obama
3. Your Mama

I hope mission possible works but there is no proof so far that it is working. It has created a morality issue among many teachers working as a team. That is the real truth.

I do agree that reading and math teachers should be paid more than PE, art and music teachers because of the accountability factor.

Jennifer/Morgan,

Yes, at the end of this year the traditional schools will be included. These schools include
Northwest, Grimsley, Wester and Page. These are four of our top schools. Include these schools and these poor results will be diluted. Most of the struggling are on Block so these results are a true indication of what is happenning at these schools. MAybe there are indications on how Mission Possible is working?

At the end of the day these kids have taken the class, they have been tested and an extremely high percentage of them FAIL.

When I look at the data schools like Southeast, Ragsdale, Eastern, Northeast, Dudley and Southwest have worsened significantly.

As for Andrews Algebra I is BAD but English I has bucked the trend of the county and has improved. High Point Central has very good results.

If you compare us to Charlotte our decreases are significantly more. Since our scores are much lower anyway the decreases are more significant.

Morgan/Jennifer, you do these children and our County a dis-service by ignoring these results.

Grier needs to be pushed and made accountable. We cant let him brush these results under the carpet.

Whats wrong with my comment Jennifer?

maybe nobody cares about your numbers so it didn't warrant a response

maybe Statman's numbers are too correct! Maybe the N & R doesn't believe in freedom of speech just for people who call others RACISTS!

See you at Huey's place.

Statmans numbers are just the facts. Maybe the N+R and the powers that be dont want them published. Its the Grier mushroom theory.

They are willing to sacrifice pay to be able to TEACH!

I have to agree with part of what TRT says. Given an equal field, most would teach in an environment that was easiest to reach the child. However the teachers that I talk to say is their major concern is saftey and respect within the school environment, not the wealth of the students. Why would anyone want to teach in a school where students are allowed to curse at a teacher, gangs are running crazy, there is no respect for authority and people don't do their homework or take education seriously. You don't have to be middle class to show respect for authority, your elders or the school system. You can't expect teachers to work in what can often be a hostile environment for the same pay. MP seems to have addressed part of the problem

Why are there more explusions in high poverty areas? It can't just be descrimination against the poor or children of color. Many of the Principals and SP in the poorest schools are people of color. Are they prejudice to children of color? Or do they just want their schools to be orderly and focus on education? The principal at Smith is very impressive. He hasn't turned around that school yet, but seems to be very dedicated.

We need to have control in all of our schools. Society must not let the few frighten the many.

Again, I do think the money of MP has gotten more teachers to interview and go to the targets schools. Will they stay there and will they help?
I hope they will make a difference, time will tell.

Debora, Did you have any teachers leave NW to go to a MP school? We had several leave SW Middle but SW middle also had an influx of dis-advantaged kids. I guess they thought I have to teach these kids anyway if I stay at SW why not move down the road and get 12K more?
I cant blame them if they are in it for the money.I personally did not become a teacher for the money but because I love teaching. If the public school system becomes too difficult to teach in I can see many of us giving up.

We did not have any teachers leave for MP that I know of. We did inherit one teacher that was placed at our school from a school that is MP. I guess her scores were not high enough to keep a job at the MP school.

I think those that teach do it for the children, but of course they have to make money enough to survive. If the money intices them to another school, then hopefully they will do a great job there and the children will benefit from their decision.

NWMS is losing teachers to Northern for next year. At least two that I know of. We are losing several others due to decrease in size, some retirements, some moving to different counties.

And I think SWM is also losing teachers next year to Northern.

Debora,

I think you exagerate quite a bit when you say gangs are running crazy in our schools. Sure there are children in our schools that are in gangs but our schools are under control. Fights are going to happen in school, they always have, they just used to not get published in the newspaper. Schools were much more dangerous 30 years ago. I knew kids that routinely brought guns to school and they weren't gang members. They were white middle class boys who thought they needed them for protection. Sure there are students that cuss teachers and while I'll agree with you that its unacceptable unfortunately its become so common place in our cultutre for people to behave with no civility. I'm not howver making excuses, its wrong and people should be taught to show respect.

For instance I'll give you an example of disrespect, Its not just the poor disenfranchised. Example of disrespect are everywhere, even in supposedly educated white priveledged families. When a BOE voted to try to balance diversity in their school system to level the educational opportunities for all children in their school system, a group of middle class white parents verbally attacked school board members and a great Superintendent. They were so distraught that their priveleded system would be infected by the poor. They vandalized BOE member's cars and property. The called them names. They villified them all because they didn't want their children to be in school with other children from different backgrounds out of fear. Some like Buckmtn chose to send their children to an all white school but continue to trash our education leaders. Our society needs a lot of work.

The Real Truth

The Real Truth,

Do you really believe schools were more dangerous 30 years ago? Do you have a student in school?
Where?

TRT, what is wrong now? I just got a message that you are looking for me. Let me see what you said.....

No, I was in school 30 years ago and there were no guns in the PUBLIC school I attended that was equally divided, black-hispanic-white.

No, there were no gangs in this school either.

Let me see what else you have to say.....

No, the BOE tried to re-balance a pocket of the overall county schools. If the BOE had attempted to re-balance the ENTIRE county you probably would not even know where North High Point is.

Let me see what else you have to say....

Verbally attacked the School Board, let's not forget the thousands of e-mails they also received.

Attacked a great Superintendent? What happened to Grier? Did he leave?

Let me see what else......

Listen very carefully when I say this...
I NEVER VANDALIZED ANYONE'S PROPERTY... PERIOD..

Let me see what else you are spewing today....
Oh, you're old standby, well once again HPCA is not an all-white school.

Finally, I believe as a taxpayer I have the right to say whatever I want about certain multi-term, inept members of the School Board, as well as Mr. Grier.

I agree that our society needs alot of work, starting with you.

The Real Truth,

I am a teacher and can say without a doubt that gang activity is indeed rampant in the high school I work at. I can also say that while I'm doing the best I can to teach the kids in our school, my child will NEVER step foot in a Guilford County high or middle school! The behaviors that are tolerated are unbelievable (and unreported).

Parent,

Sure schools are safer now. 30 years ago principals typically hid violence. There were many fights that went unreported. Many times students weren't even punished. The principal kept a locked drawer in his office that was full of gins, knives and drugs he confiscated on campus but never called the police. There was no law requiring principals to report anything. They used their own discretion and wanting their schools to be perceived as good places they his problems. There were many problems they were just swept under the rug.

In addition there was no standardized test, no acountability. The level of teaching was poor 30 years ago.

Today we have school resource officers and schools are required by law to report crimes. Jim (poster above) is either not a real teacher or he's part of the problem for not reporting. Maybe he's EC Huey (oh well he's Randolph County's problem, we got rid of him).

Buckmtn,

I never said you personally vandalized anything but your co-horts did. You are just guilty of association!

The Real Truth

I've been told that comments calling other posters racist violates our terms of service regarding offensive language. Just as we delete comments laced with profanity, we will delete any comments calling other posters racist.

I'm deleting previous posts with such comments.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

Jennifer,
Can they be called, entitled ethnocentric people lacking in understanding and empathy for others, motivated by fear of other people unlike themselves? Its a lot more words but means the same thing.

I also expect you to police comments made by posters that call Dot, and Dr Grier by disrespectful, disparaging names they think are cute. Anyway I don't need to use the R word. All one has to do is read their posts and make their own judgements. I will comply with the terms of service.. no problem.

By the way I read in the N&R that there were a number of Guilford County Teams doing very well in the state play-offs in various sports. Even some state champions. Amazing, after reading these posters one would wonder how they could reach these great achievements with all the gangs, violence and disruption. Point being Great things are happening in GCS if you want to know The Real Truth!

The Real Truth

TRT..where did you go to school? Was it an all black school? I was in school 30 years ago and there were no problems like the ones you describe. Is that why they integrated?

Thank you Jennifer for finally seeing both sides of the terms of service violations. There for a while, I thought you were somehow obligated to TRT.

"The Real Truth" but very untrue,

You really should get a job. Then you too could afford private and you wouldn't have to spend your day on the Chalkboard! Just think, you could maybe then even afford to move to "NHP" and all your dreams would come true. You remind me of a little second grader that has no friends so at recess so you resort to bullying.

How do we stop this senseless bickering?

Jennifer can stop it by taking "The Real Truth" off the chalkboard PERMANENTLY. She has nothing factual to add, just calls the same group of people the same names and says the same things over and over and over and over again. I get a headache when I read her posts. They are so UNTRUE.

RT,

Where the heck did you go to school? We didn't have guns in our school. The troublemakers were expelled and sent to Reform School. There were NO gangs. Hoodlums who broke the law were not tolerated. Teachers and the principals had control of the school.

It was not the animals running the zoo.

I know many, many teachers who have quit the profession because of the state of our schools and the blatent disrespect. The pay is too little and life is too short to put up with all the grief.

Why would you even are say Jim is not a teacher? I know several teachers who teach in public school but send their children to private because they know what happens in the classroom today. Yes we have some great sports teams but what the heck does that have to do with the fights, disrespect, bullying and gang fights in our schools? NOTHING! You'll find that most students in sports have parents that care to get their children involved in positive activities. How do you expect the kids that are bussed across town to participate?

Well you didn't leave a name and I cannot call you a "R" word but whoever posted (read post above May 21, 7:10 PM) "where did you go to school? an all black school (refering to crime in school)." says it all! Whoever wrote that above is a shining example of the North High Point crowd. Thanks for vindicating me and proving my point! I rest my case on your words!

But I'll answer your question. I went to an integrated suburban school much like SW. The prinicipal was a born again Baptist white man who went to school on the GI bill after WWII. Today he wouldn't even be qualified to be a teacher but back then just being a man of a certain age made you a principal! Most of the guns I knew about were brought to school by white kids. None were ever used but these kids kept them in their cars and lockers because they feared black kids (I cannot use the "R" word but that is what they were.) As far as I knew, no weapons were used but they were there. Most kids had a knife of course back then nobody seemed to care about knives. I know of no incidents where kids were harmed by a weapon in school back then or now (at least in GCS). Of course back then it could of happened but wouldn't have been in the paper because the law didn't require reporting it. As for teachers and violence, my middle school biology teacher (male)was beaten up by a student. It happens every year somewhere and always has.

Point being what is happening in our schools isn't knew. Its always happened but today schools are safer because Administratiors have to deal with problems and cannot sweep them under the rug to keep up appearances. Our schools have resource officers and fore alarms that work (the principal out our school disarmed them after a student pulled a false alarm). By the way, my school graduated one Morehead Scholar and one Trinity Scholar. One student served on Ronald Reagan's staff and one graduate is working for the State Department in charge of diplomatic relations witrh the Continent of Africa. There were three professional athletes, one basketball, one baseball and one football. I know of five Doctors from that class too. I also know of two murders, and a number of felons one of which was president For those of you from SW who are wondering... he was white) of his fraternity in college. Point being, schools are nothing more and nothing less than a reflection of society. You cannot blame the school I went to for the murders and you cannot give them credit for the sucesses either. I don't blame the incompetent WWII veteran principal for the bad things that happened and I certainly don't give him credit for the good either. But I know that I feel safer with the principals and administrators running GCS than I would with the incompetent principal I had.

You guys are so funny, just like you think your kids are entitled to a better education than poor kids; you seem to think you can spew your vile attacks on honorable people but then you think I should be banned for giving you a dose of your own medicine. How absurd!

The Real Truth

"they were white middle class boys" (who carried guns....) RT

RT Why do you constantly refer to color? Your background explains some things. Seriously have you ever thought of seeing a good therapist? You have some serious R issues. Get help now.

Jennifer,

Thanks for your post and your attempt to regain civility on this blog. It appears that some of the posters will get around your requirements by simply using the term "R word" instead of the actual word itself.

To me that use is no different than using the original word.

Some of the posters are discriminatory in their language and it is offensive to me and probably others.

I don't have the answer, but I also don't like the new direction that some have taken.

"I went to an integrated suburban school much like SW."

Finally, R.T. has admitted that SWH is an integrated school. In the past he has described SWH as an elitist white power school in NHP. I guess we are making some progress here after all. Now, if we cold only get some mebers of the school board to acknowledge that SWH is integrated, we'd be making great progress.

I can only echo the comments of Numbersgame above. While this senseless bickering continues we do not discuss EOC results.

I am tired of it and I kindly ask Jennifer to do something about it.

Stormy,

I never said SW wasn't integrated as one refers to it in the racial ethnic sense. My point is that SW you Grier haters only want middle class kids in your school. You want to send all the poor kids to Andrews or Central or even an alternative school so you can pretend they don't exist. Its segregated by income not race. Also it has less diversity than the other two high schools in High Point. As for white Power etc. Read the post by your bretheren above. Woever it was let their true self show.

Oh Numbersgame,

You are all for civility as long as its doesn't include comments about Dr. Grier, Susan or Dot. You never complain when one of your fellow uninformed entitled fearful of people that look different cohorts assualts them. In your warped mind its ok to accuse, make up conspiracies and generally be negative as long as it directed at Dr. Grier the BOE or High Point Central or Andrews. You are ridiculas! You cannot selectively apply civility. You Grier Haters started the assaults you just don't like it coming back to you. I'm like a mirror, I just reflect your own image!

The Real Truth

Dear Eastern Parent (and others):

The bickering only continues so long as posters rise to TRT's bait. TRT has lost all credibility in these discussions; so, just ignore (shun) his/her posts. If you respond to the posts, you are only validating them by indicating that they are worthy of further discussion--they're not.

There is a difference in citizens who criticize public officials and citizens who make offensive remarks to non-public citizens.

See the 1964 United States Supreme Court case of The New York Times v. Sullivan. For the first time, the Supreme Court recognized that the First Amendment, which protects an individual's freedom of speech and expression, protects even speech and expression that is defamatory. In Sullivan, the plaintiff was a public official who sued The New York Times for libel after the newspaper published certain unfavorable allegations about him. The Supreme Court discussed the First Amendment to the Constitution, which states in part that "Congress shall pass no law abridging freedom of speech or of the press." The First Amendment exists, according to the Court, to help protect and foster the free flow and exchange of ideas, particularly on public or political issues.

The Founding Fathers of the United States valued open debates regarding political issues or governments, determining that citizens in a democracy need a free marketplace of ideas in order to become informed and make good decisions. Open debates often become caustic and emotional, with opponents sharply attacking one another in the effort to persuade others. Sanctioning defamatory speech or expression would put an end to such attacks, but sanctions would also jeopardize the free marketplace of ideas by effectively censoring free and open debate.

The Court saw the need for balancing an individual's right to be protected from false and defamatory accusations with the country's right to be informed via a free marketplace of ideas. It determined that in the case of a public official, such as the police official in Sullivan, the First Amendment rights of free speech and expression outweigh the public official's rights unless the public official can prove that the defendant acted with actual malice.

(from encyclopedia of everyday law)

I'm closing discussion on this strand in the hopes that we can continue on to the next topic - hopefully in a more civil manner.