News-Record.com

Morgan, this is great.
From the dialogue you can easily see that Grier thinks teachers are the problem. They dont have enough training and they are suspending too much.

Teachers and parents seem to be clearly saying that we have a problem.

Its going to be interesting.

"to find ways to focus on the small group of students who are causing the most discipline problems."

Any information/discussion on repeat offenders?

I expect we are suspending some for silly things out of frustration, but the most problems are caused by a small percentage of children, that as the teacher said are just being returned and returned to the classroom. I know that in middle school if you want an ISS teacher then you have to trade a classroom teacher for that position. At NWMS we felt that it was important to be able to remove the disruptive from the classroom for the benefit of the many. However, we also thought that if we could keep them in the school then perhaps they would still be able to keep up somewhat with their studies. If you send then home with OSS all the time, they ususally love that, so the cycle repeats.

It’s very clear from the comments made at this meeting that there is a serious problem and we as a community don’t have a clue how to handle it. It's a real shame that the teachers and administrators have had to move away from teaching to become disciplinarians. The problem clearly starts at home and until parents step up to the plate, their children shouldn’t be allowed to continue to disrupt the classroom.

If we solve the problem, it will be one school at a time. GCS does not seem to get it. Suspend a kid today and tomorrow he goes somewhere not back to the classroom. We are against sending Middle School students to the street. This is not rocket science.

No data on repeat offenders was provided at this meeting, but members are making data requests to Eric Becoats.

It really depends upon which school you're talking about. There are some incredible principals in the system who have created a culture where bad behavior isn't tolerated, and respect for teachers is expected. But there are some schools where that culture simply doesn't exist and teachers are not supported by their own administration. Threats have been leveled by students toward teachers and brushed off by some administrators who -- Heaven forbid -- don't want to increase their suspension rates. We were so disgusted by the lack of support for teachers' safety at one local high school that my spouse no longer works there. It's a horrific problem in some schools. Regardless of race, gender or ethnicity, if a student verbally threatens a teacher or fellow students that student should face serious consequences. If you don't have a culture where students and teachers feel safe & secure, you don't have a culture where they can excel in the classroom. The SROs need to be a very visible presence in the schools, at all levels and for so many reasons.

A teacher's Spouse.

I know a handful of teachers and I have heard many similar stories to what you have described. It's hard enough to keep teachers in Guilford County with what we pay them but add the lack of administrator support and it's a wonder we have any teachers at all. Hopefully something positive will come out of these discussions.

I still say the solution must start on the home front.

I wish, John, that we could rely on the home front to help with the solution. Sadly, many of the children who are creating such behavioral issues in school are doing so because there are no consequences on the home front. Think about when we were children; Would we have dared to talk back to a teacher? These days you would not believe some of the profanity-laced tirades left by some parents on a teacher's classroom voicemail. And in some schools, administrators let that fly; And in other schools, you have remarkable leaders who won't let that slide by unnoticed and will step up to support their classroom teachers, period. We need more of those leaders in ALL of our schools, but Guilford County will never get them because of an entire laundry list of reasons. sigh...

It's such an unfortunate situation. I don't think I can ever remember a time when a teacher's safety was ever in jeopardy from a student (I'm sure there were cases but they were few and far between). At least people are starting to talk. Let's see if we can actually get some action from all the talk. I know there are enough of us who care to make a change one way or another.

I believe that this task force will step up to the challenge that they have. However, I think from the comments I have read, it is turning into a debate about where to place the blame, and that is a diappointing response. It is the teachers fault, it is the parents fault, it is Terry Grier's fault....etc. At some point in time, I have to shout GIMME A BREAK! It is not about pointing blame, it is about coming up with a solution. How are we going to come up with a solution if we focus all our attention on who is to blame?

It is clear that noone wants to take the responsibity....but will anyone take the challenge? All it takes is one teacher to take the time to make a special connection to a troubled kid; one SRO to take the time to provide a safe place for a troubled kid; all it takes is one parent...etc. This can happen, but it is going to take everyones effort. If you take one school, and the principal makes a connection to one particular troubled kid, and the assistant teacher does the same, and the school counsellor does the same, and the SRO officer does the same, that is 4 children right there who can immediately and automatically be touched and changed forever. Guilford County we have the power to do that!!! We have the time and ability; so why haven't we?

I'm reading that there is an emerging gang problem in the schools. Not just the high schools, but the middle schools, and even elementary schools. That is getting scary. So, is the task force going to address how this problem will be handled? It appears as though our district can't even handle individual cases of discipline problems, so how are they to handle gang threats? Is Deena Hayes going to be able to continue to stifle any action against gangs?

First of all, Deena Hayes has never tried to stifle any action against gangs that I am aware of. She has not been in total agreement with some of the police officers who are working on gang prevention but she certainly wants to save kids in her community from joining gangs. So I would be careful about throwing that kind of language around.

Gangs are not cool, not what you see on TV. They are brutal and devastating to individuals and the community: and especially to the African American community due to history, politics, and other social dynamics.

I hope we can plan more community education seminars around gangs this year. The Guilford County Council of PTAs, the Guilford Education Alliance, and Youth Focus with the City of Greensboro did that year before last. I will tell you that the presentation about the real world of gangs traumatized me. I am trained as a therapist and a mental health professional and I am supposed to be able to sit and let people share stories of trauma, abuse, and really terrible stuff and just be objective, and I can do that. But when I sat through the gang presentation of what really happens in gang life... and some of the stories of real life law enforcement that are trying to save kids from gangs... I will tell you that I was really disturbed and up several nights not sleeping thinking about what is happening to children in communities. It is worse than you want to think about. And it happens because children want to belong to something.

If people do not have a family, the humanity in them... the spirit we are all born with, yearns for that connection and belonging. So we seek it at high cost.

Dr. Grier has many times reflected to myself and other community members his support, or maybe just reflected for our information that there are programs that divide the number of students at a school by the number of adult staff members, and at any given school it will be about 8-10 students per adult. So what if this one adult took an interest in making a connection with these 8-10 students and followed them from 9th to 12th grade? And this staff member took an interest... How are you doing? Did you get to school today? Is there any additional resource that I know of that you need and I can hook you up with?

And here is where that seems to go:

"We don't have time for that." (Teachers)

And then some white affluent parents might say, "Well, if kids had engaged parents, teachers would not have to fill in the gaps like that."

And what I would say to that is: "CRAP!"

Even affluent, engaged parents lose connection with their kids when they get to be teens. And some of that is developmentally and age appropriate. When children reach adolescence, they are supposed to begin to individuate from their parents. So it is developmentally and age appropriate for them to seek support outside of their family. I know parents HATE that, but that is normative. So for students who do not have engaged parents, this would be helpful, and for students who HAVE ENGAGED PARENTS this would be helpful.

So we are all in this together. But my sense is, (and I am happy to be wrong about this) is that Teachers are not willing to do this. Maybe because we have not created enough of an "upside" for the teachers to embrace this.

I have a brother-in-law who is a high school coach in Arizona and sisters-in-law who teach in other states and they all participate in this type of program. They tell me that some kids respond well, some don't. But they seem to think it is worth the effort for the kids they connect with.

I am getting on my Soap Box here.

Amos Quick said that he felt there was no issue more important than school climate.

And I am in total agreement with that.

I am passionate about kids feeling welcome at school, about school being a place where kids can feel comfortable and can thrive. I think kids need to be able to use the bathroom during the day and feel safe, and I think teachers should feel supported in their environment too. If teachers do not feel safe and supported, they cannot teach. If teachers cannot teach, students cannot learn.

I am off my Soap Box for now. I welcome any feedback on this and especially from teachers and students. That is the core relationship here.

Well said Terrina,

I just wonder if these middle class white parents will support efforts to improve discipline with funding. We cannot simply throw these kids into the street. Until there is an alternative place to remediate these children we will not solve any problems.

Of course I can here them saying now that it doesn't take money and yadda yada yadda, but it does require more money and where is it coming from? These kids need an alternative setting and more one on one interaction. There will need to be policies to ensure that the kid can return to their original school afterthey have met the remediation standard. It would be wrong to force a kid to an alternative school forever. Heck we send innocent people to death row, how would we make sure that these kids are treated justly? Its not nearly as easy as these white, middle class, entitled, segregationist parents from North High Point want people to believe. Their primary motivation is simply to insulate themselves from these kids not solve any problems (of course in their selfish, entitled minds as long as their children don't have to go to school with children from lower economic status.. problem solved). Nevertheless, I'm glad you and the others making the effort. Its a worthwhile endeavor.

Thank you Dr Grier for creating this Task Force You are Great! Guilford County is lucky to have you!

The Real Truth

I think that one thing is to get parents more involved with their children. Set a curfew, look at home work, talk to their child.

As Terrenia said, when they get to HS it is different and they need additional and new role models. Northern is going to have the small group mentoring approach. We are calling it Hawk's Nest. The nest being a safe place to talk about things. Each adult (teachers, admins, counselors) will have 10 or so kids and they will meet avery week for 30 minutes. We carved that time out of the classroom, because we thought it was important to have time for the kids to be able to talk and get some attention outside of the normal classroom.

There will be many topics. One is how to act at the school dance, appropriate clothing, anti-bullying info, etc. I will report later in the year how it goes.

That costs no money.

I am not sure that the general public can 'put money into this' as RT states, since the budget comes from GCS. It is obvious that we need other schools for kids that don't fit. I thought that was our middle colleges. We need something other than scales or perhaps in addition to scales.

It will be a challenge to restore respect and proper behavior in our schools. Society as a whole, seems to accept rude and bad behavior. We need to make sure that our kids know that school is their job, and what the expectations are.

As kids, we had to sign student handbooks that outlined the rules -- and the consequences if we broke those rules (our parents had to sign them, too). Discipline is handled differently across the board because administrators use their own discretion about each individual case. How are referrals addressed at each school? (That might be a very good question for the committee to ask...) Is EACH referral documented, listing the specific discipline measure(s) taken and by which administrator? Was each parent contacted about each referral, and by whom? Some teachers complain they see no action when they make referrals -- WHY? Are the results of those referrals then shared with the teacher who made it? (why or why not?) If you ever look at campus crime statistics, you'll see a wide disparity in how crimes are reported from school to school -- and that again is usually based upon the discretion of administrators as to whether they decide to report incidents and/or involve the SROs. And in some schools, teachers are placed in a position of having to defend their decision to send a disruptive child to the office; "Why can't you control your classroom?" I don't think anyone is trying to point the blame at anyone, CS, but folks have to look at the reality of the climate before they can develop viable solutions. You can't walk in cold and develop a successful game plan for a team unless you study the players first, their strengths and their weaknesses.

As a white middle class parent, I realize that we are going to need money to deal with the issues that are in our school and I do not appreciate Real Truth making generalizations about all middle class white people.

I also realize that within our school we have students from every race and background with some of the same issues. Poverty itself is not the problem and it is not an excuse. Race itself is not the problem and it is not an excuse.

The problem is complex, but I think Terrino hit on something when she stated that the students are looking for a place to belong and fit in.

I have been told that the gang's at our school chose you. We have brothers that are split between the gangs, because of the gangs choice.

The desire to belong to a group is not new, we just need to give them different choices. We also need the assistance of the law makers, court systems and police departments to crack down on gang violence in our neighborhoods. We need the assistance of local communities and churches to crack down on violence in their neighborhoods.

We have had FIVE young people murdered on our streets with handguns!! FIVE wasted lives of Guilford County Students. My hope is that this violence does not pour over into our schools this fall.

Why are we not all in mourning??

Why is the community not up in arms??

Why are we not having candlelight vigils to bring attention to the waste of life?

Why Real Truth are you not marching in the street shouting for the lives of these kids instead of slinging mud at the entire white middle class
through a useless blog?

WAKE UP....

Four African American's started a national movement by sitting at the Woolworth counter because they wanted to be recognized as equal human beings.

Where has this passion for human life gone?

I am a white middle class parent, but not from North High Point. My child goes to a minority-majority school with plenty of good and also plenty of problems. It sounds like Real Truth supports establishing an alternative ISS school. It sounds like most teachers support this. Heaven knows, I support it and would like to see GCS fund it. If the school board funded ISS programs and got the problem kids out of the classroom, then it would save lots of money in the long run, because the rest of the kids would actually learn, and not need so much remedial help. With the right kind of ISS programs, some of the troublemakers might change their behavior and begin to learn, too.

Real Truth seems to imply that "middle class white" parents won't fund this. Nonsense. The problem is that, although Amos Quick may support an alternative ISS school, what will happen at the Skip Alston level when that school is nearly 100% minority students, as it will be, because most of the students needing to be suspended are minority? The usual charges of racism will be dragged out, and the program will be dropped. When are local black politicians going to start seeking solutions, instead of just handing out 1960's polemics???

White Middle Class,

I never spoke about all white middle class people. My comment is directed at the ones I described. If you consider yourself outside of that group then consider yourself outside of my comment. I do believe however, that many of the posters here are self entitled white segregationists and really don't care about all children just their own. This is a complex problem and it will takes lots of thoughtful study and money t make an improvement but many of the comments I read here are simply to segregate these poor kids away from middle class whites. For example, ignorant comments about parental responsibility. These posters have no idea what its like to grow up in poverty. To have single parent (often being uneducated and very young) who works two jobs and is not able to be involved in their school. They have no idea what its like to be raised by an elderly grandparent in public housing faced with crime, drugs and violence. No positive role models just street gangs. They don't know and don't seem to care. As long as they can have seperate schools for their privledged darlings they are happy. You know its true!

We owe it to these kids and ourselves to do a better job. Not just segregate them.

The Real Truth

Interesting link via http://www.nceducationalliance.org/:

Posted on Thu, Jul. 05, 2007
Changes ahead for disruptive students
PETER SMOLOWITZ

http://www.charlotte.com/local/v-print/story/185373.html

New discipline policies next school year will create more options for removing disruptive students from classrooms, while allowing kids to get an education and help for their problems.
The changes, to be outlined at Tuesday's Charlotte-Mecklenburg school board meeting, are aimed at addressing a big concern among parents and teachers. The plans won't satisfy critics who say CMS should expel more students. But some community leaders who have been working with the district praise the effort to focus on prevention more than punishment.
.
.
.

jwg,

Here is the link to that full story you mention above from the Charlotte Observer.

Terrina,

So who and what is this paragraph in today's editorial about gangs addressing:

"Yet as recently as last year some members of the Guilford County school board challenged a Greensboro police officer's warnings of growing gang activity. Detective Ernest Cuthbertson, a nationally recognized expert on gang trends, stressed the importance of addressing the problem before it becomes an epidemic."

I've seen Deena personally challenge and stonewall Detective Cuthbertson a couple of times when he tried to build a sense of urgency on gangs and youth violence within the school board. One time was last year on gangs and the other was when GPD tried to inplement a pilot Community Watch program. Both times, Deena attacked and embarrassed him. She may not want kids in her community joining gangs, but she sure is not doing anything to help law enforcement deal with.

I am aware of the issues between Deena and Ernest. The two of them do not see eye to eye on HOW to go about this. That is where that stalls out. I really like Ernest. I hope he can gain support with the powers that be in our commuity to get some real programs going here to save kids from the streets. Ernest is a parent too, and he really cares about the kids.

We often come to an impasse with these issues, but we have to keep working to get through those. I am hopeful that Deena and Ernest can work through the issues together.

Glad to see that comment was removed.

The Real Truth,

I disagree with you and I think most of the posters on this blog are white middle class people that do care about all of the students. They are just more concerned with the safety of their own and rightly should be.

Do you actually think that minority kids are the only ones that have it difficult? You obviously lived in this situation where your sense of entitlement came from. No one owes you or anyone else anything... Until students value education and take responsibility for their own education and behavior we are not going to win.

Being poor, being black, living in a gang infested neighboorhood with one parent is absolutely no excuse for...
...being disrespectful,
...disobedient,
...threatening to other students,
...carrying guns in the school,
...selling drugs,
...stealing
...using the "f" word every other word,
...ignoring homework assignments,
...skipping class,
...smoking joints in the restroom,
...fighting on the bus,
...jumping five on 1 in the hallways
...having sex on the hallway

You can choose to be different and many students do this everyday. It is the few that makes everyone else miserable and you think only white parents want their students away from this type of mess you are mistaken. I talk with black parents everyday that say what they need is a good dose of discipline.

I know kids that grew up in the projects that walk tall and are well behaved, because their single parent, two job mom kept them in line.

People like you are not helping these kids....

By the way, you did not answer my question...

Why are you not rallying in the streets of this city to end the needless violence???? Quit pointing your finger at everyone else and look in the mirror...

What are you doing to change things?

Do you want your child in a class with kids that
shoot each other? Do you want your child to sit next to somone that you know carries a gun and uses it? Do you want your child to sit next to someone with a razor in his hair or bandana?

If you say yes, you are lying?

If you say no, then you are in the same position as the middle class High Point parents that you routinely put down.

Does everything have to be a race issue? I am so sick and tired of it...if we continue to divide ourselves no issues will be solved.

It has to take EVERYONE in order to for there to be a REAL solution that will work. It is like a puzzle, and in order to see the whole picture, to know the whole story so we can fix it, everyone has to OWN their piece of the puzzle (even if they don't like the piece that they have!) and THEN have the courage to offer it up.

The teachers hold a piece, the administrators hold a piece, the parents holds a piece, the students hold a piece, the SROs hold a piece, and on and on; each piece being unique and particular and different and ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to the WHOLE PICTURE. And if one piece of the puzzle isn't brought to the picture, then the picture is incomplete, and we can't see the WHOLE picture. And if we can't see the whole picture, how in the heck are we going to solve the problem?

The time is NOW to put aside your gripes, prejudices, and blame and focus on how you can bring your piece to the picture.

CS,

I couldn't agree more. I'm sick and tired of it too. We've turned back the clock and are segregating or kids based on race under a less harmful cause ... Neighborhood schools. Its a shame that those self entitled, white, segregationist parents in NHP are only concerned about race. It seems keeping their children seperated is the only real priority they have.

Why can't we all live together in harmony? Why are they so afraid of black children? Why do they need all white schools?

The real Truth

Jennifer and Morgan, Why do we have to put up with this?

When are you going to stop this person namecalling?

You have tried being nice. You have deleted these comments before but it goes on and on. Any questioning of Grier or of the school system and its a NHP parent. Its not only High Point people that post here! I am sick of it. When are you going to stop this person from posting?

How long Jennifer?

NHP Parent,

That is an obsurd notion that I should be banned so you can spew your white ethnocentric, segregationist views but I cannot write my views because they are different than yours! You have never jumped to my defense when one of your self entitled, middle class white segregationist comrades called me names. Double standard! I guess you think you are entitled to have double standard because of your economic status or is it your ethnic status?

this thread is about school environment. Therefore race and economic status are very relevent issues. Do you really think that concentrating large numbers of poor kid in one school and then having segregated middle class schools like SW helps the school environment?

You white middle class entitled ethnocentric segregationists don't want to believe its about race but your primary focus is and always has been segregating your children from poor African American kids. After all you bought your tract homes in the suburbs to get away from black kids.

Face the Truth its about Race.

The Real Truth

The American spirit is about working hard and having the FREEDOM to make choices in your life. If you chose to live in an urban environment that is your choice. If you chose to live in a rural environment that is your choice, and yes RT I know that some people don't have a choice. Those that live in public housing have to live where the GOVERNMENT (not the people) put that housing. I don't see that can be controlled by individual people.

Can we talk about school climate inside the walls of the school, and not about the color of those children. Should we not have a set standard of acceptable behavior for our schools, no matter the make up of each school? We have laws of proper conduct, there is no color involved. Speed and you can get a ticket, shoplift and get caught you get to go to court, rape, murder etc the law applies to everyone.

Is that a standard that we can live with in our schools? The rules should apply to everyone equally. White children should get no special treatment. Black children should get no special treatment. A student is a student.

If the students don't understand what is acceptable behavior, lets teach them!! If the SRO's are biased, they need a new job. The right person can do a great job. I have seen it happen with different officers. The wrong person at the wrong school can do a crappy job. I have seen it.

We have to come up with some guidelines that all can feel comfortable with, conform to and inforce with the blindfold of Lady Justice.

Real Truth:

After reading your last post, I have to wonder what happened in your life experience that has made you so very angry at the white middle class? It is obvious that you have been deeply hurt by someone or a group because you would not speak so passionately about this if you hadn't. If something has happened to you I am sorry and I hope that you are able to turn that negative experience into something positive.

I believe that in a previous post Ms. Picorello made the statement, "what you focus on expands." Please be mindful of the truth that is in that statement. We all need to be careful with regard to where we place our focus and our attention. This is too important for us to lose our focus.

Noone here knows my race or my economic class because quite frankly I do not find it relevant to this discussion. It does not matter what section of town that I live in, or where my children go to school, or how much money I have in my bank account; what matters is that I am a member of this community, that my children are students in the public school system, and that we together are facing a crisis in our schools.

Hopefully, this discussion can be redirected to the REAL FOCUS at hand; the safety of our students and teachers, and the action steps to make sure the best procedures are in place to ensure the best school climate FOR ALL OF OUR CHILDREN.

On a separate note, I am curious as to why neither of the 2 SROs were present at the meeting....this is a little worrisome as I think that they are vital to this discussion and solution. I would be interested in knowing the answer.

RT,

I will tell that to my next door neighbor who is Black. He can tell his next door neighbor who is also Black. He can then in turn walk across the road to their neighbor who is Black.

I can walk two houses down the other way and tell that neighbor what you think. He is also Black.

You tell lies about North High Point. You insult the people that live here and anyone who attends Southwest. You are plain wrong and its very, very wrong what the moderators of this blog are letting you get away with.

How long will Jennifer let Real Truth tell lies and insult people.

All participants who missed the meeting -including the 2 SROs - had previously notified the the appropriate persons that they would be absent. Vacations, previously planned summer activities, etc.

NO CONSPIRACY, just normal happenings.

We should have the full Task Force in attendance on this Thursday.

According to the poster Real Truth this strand is about race. I thought it was about school climate and mainly discipline.

There have been several good posts and it is a very interesting read apart from the persistant posts of Real Truth baiting these unfortunate North High Pointers. Please go to a Car park somewhere and work it out but please:
GET OFF THIS BLOG!

Amos,
I applaud you for tackling this issue. It is extremely important to our children and their future. I for one, do not want to see children put into the judicial system for ridiculous things like cussing. If a student can't conduct him or herself appropriately they need an alternative location to learn in, not jail. If they don't know how to act; let's teach them.
All middle and high schools should have ISS funded by the county. The class should be tough and effective; not just removing the child from a classroom and letting them have a party.

Perhaps we need vocation education inside ISS. Teach the repeat offenders what kind of job they can get without a HS diploma. Let them pick up trash all day.. sort the recyclables, dig a ditch. I know I am being extreme; but if a child learns how hard that kind of work is (and it is honest work) with low pay perhaps they will want to do better in school.

I would love to see the explusion rate down, if and only if they are being sent out of school for an offense that could be handled inside. However, the children that put the rest of ours in a dangerous situation need to be removed permanently from our schools. I was appalled to read that we had over 100 fire related incidents this last year. We know from the disaster at Eastern what can become of fire issues.

Ask you daughter, ask any student at any school.. a very small majority of the students make the vast majority of the problems. Where do we draw the line? When is enough enough? We can't allow a few children to disrupt the learning of the many. Why would any student be sent back to the class after a fistfight 10 minutes earlier? What do you think that teachers? How can a teacher earn respect if the admin's don't back them up? Make no mistake the principals are under alot of pressure to drop the suspension rate. That would be fine if the climate was improving and that was the reason for the decrease, but to ignore issues just to get the number down is wrong.

Good luck with this mission, it could save alot of children and their opportunity for a quality education.

At Southwest Guilford Middle School, this past school year, there were more students openly interested in gangs than I've been aware of during my previous 10 years teaching there.

Almost exclusively, those students were African Amercians, and more of them were male students than female students.

The sad thing is how that interest in gangs kept those students from focusing on learning because without the negative distraction of gang culture, those students had all the potential in the world to contribute to and benefit from academic culture.

These are not "dumb" individuals, but like whites who belonged to our country's most infamous gang, the KKK, modern-day students who embrace gang culture limit their own positive potential as human beings.

Adults in all roles--as parents, as teachers, as administrators, as law enforcement officers, and as community members--are working against a popular culture that too often glamorizes gang culture and other negative examples of human existence and interaction, including language, behavior, and attitudes.

I just found out about one of the most positive funerals ever, one held by the NAACP, to bury the "N"-word. Some younger African Americans have embraced that word, as well as derogatory words for women, and in so doing, have contributed to a negative culture for themselves.

Excuses have been made for such language and such attitudes, just as so many whites used to make excuses for embracing ugly and indefensible racial hatred.

While there are no doubt still whites who embrace ugly attitudes toward African Americans (and others), that no longer is a part of mainstream culture.

It is remarkable how much progress has been made among white behaviors and attitudes, particularly when you consider that it was not too far in the past when such changes must have seemed near impossible. How was that progress made? How were minds changed so radically? How can we ensure that modern-day progress is similarly made and that minds that need to be changed are?

Our American culture as a whole is guilty of not embracing edcuation as strongly as it should. That is true across racial categories.

Technology (video games, the internet, social networking programs such as MySpace, other communication opportunities, etc.) and popular culture (TV shows, music, etc.) provide distractions and negative influences that make it more challenging for adults to connect with young people.

There are students who arrive at school every day too tired to function adequately because they've stayed up the night before playing video games, communicating with friends, and doing everything but read, study, and engage themselves academically. (It'd be a beautiful thing if we could determine how to get more students to communicate with one another about their academics instead of communicating about some of the subjects they currently focus on.)

Some parents limit or even eliminate those distracting influences from their children's at-home time, but even that is not a guarantee of more positive results because some students simply become resentful and remain academically disengaged.

Another problem that is broader than the issue of gang culture is the way students treat each other. Too many students have only negative gossip to spread about one another and live to be involved in and instigate conflict among themselves.

As much of a problem we have with some students disrespecting school staff members--(and these students are equal opportunity offenders; they disrespect adults who share their racial identity just as openly and quickly as they might do so toward a staff member of a different race)--there may be an even greater problem with how these students treat one another.

Interestingly, with peer treatment, students tend to interact more with their own race, so when conflicts exist, my observation has been that it is not usually across racial lines.

Our school made attempts this past year to respond to challenges we faced with some students' efforts, attitudes, and behaviors. Our staff members, under the leadership of our administrators, have done so ever since I've been there.

Years ago, when the problems with student behavior and attitudes were not so great, we chose to invest some of our school's money in security cameras. Those no doubt have deterred some students from causing problems and helped us catch some other students doing things they should not have been doing.

We've also implemented strategies designed to control and monitor student movement in our building. Some of those strategies have made a tremendous difference, even if more strategies and ideas are still needed.

This past year, we added the responsiblity of having staff members follow students between their core and encore classes, which is when they had longer distances to travel. We did so because some students were not doing what they were supposed to do during that travel time. It often helped.

It's unfortunate that some of these steps are necessary, but without them, there is a far greater risk for chaos and disorder.

We also had staff members assigned as individual buddies to students identified as having had past problems with academics, behavior, and attitudes. That worked or failed on an individual basis, sometimes depending on how much individual time and effort staff members devoted to connecting one-on-one with those students, other times seeming not to matter when staff members tried their best to connect and reach out to these students.

Some staff members would go out of their way to spend quality time with these students and/or do special things for them, only to have some of them turn around almost literally the next second and do something to get themselves in trouble. That does not mean that the effort should not be there, only that the effort perhaps has to redoubled or that the approach has to be changed.

Teacher training matters and providing as many strategies and ideas as possible for staff members to add to their tool box is important.

Maybe part of that training needs to be as intense as acting out worst-case scenerios and forcing teachers to demonstrate how they would respond, allowing constructive criticism and brainstorming sessions to take place afterwards.

I'm reminded of how civil rights activists planned to respond positively to the worst that white supremists might throw their way.

There were workshops during which fellow civil rights activists tested one another, hurling as much ugliness (including the "n"-word) as possible at one another so that they would be prepared not to lose their composure when faced with the very real ugliness thrown directly at them during sit-ins and other demonstrations for civil rights.

It wouldn't suprise me if it already exists, at least somewhere out there, but such hard-core training might better prepare school staff members and law enforcement officers not to react negatively when faced with students' negativity.

I vaguely remember Malcolm X writing of how a woman had responded negatively to him but how he had continued to come at her positively and how that gradually had changed her response to him.

That's easier said than done, of course.

Some of our elected officials remind of us how much easier it is to respond negatively than positively when they perceive others to be coming at them negatively.

School staff members are no different.

When a human being approaches us negatively, it is our human instinct to respond negatively in kind return. (That, ironically, has shown itself at times on this very blog.)

So what we are asking school staff members to do, in asking us to figure out better ways to respond to our students, is sometimes asking us to defy our human instincts, to avoid allowing ourselves to be drawn into negative responses to students' own negativity.

That's requesting a Herculean response, but perhaps that is part of what we must demand to diffuse problems and improve conditions.

Perhaps by training us to overcome our personalities and our instincts, we will prepare ourselves better for the challenge.

Middle schools, by the way, have a theoretical component that some seem to suggest is a brand-new idea: the notion of having each staff member assigned a small group of students with whom to connect.

It's called AA (Advisor/Advisee), but most often, it ends up being hardly different from homeroom.

How many middle schools effectively use AA?

At my school, I've never had fewer than 24 students in my AA and usually closer to 30.

Once you go above 10-15 students, the idea of connecting on a more personal, meaningful level becomes a far greater challenge.

Every year, though, I have typically gotten to know students in my AA better than I have other students on my team. During report card distribution, I see each of their collective grades and conduct marks and am able to provide reinforcement and encouragement for those students.

How much more could be done, however, if our AAs had only 10-15 students each?

What logistical arrangements would need to be done to set this up?

Are there any Guilford County middle schools that do have smaller AA sizes set up?

How do they do that, and how might the other middle schools imitate those arrangements?

(It sounds like a form of AA is being set up at Northern High School, from comments above.)

At the middle school level, we also have teams.

At Southwest, I know that many teams have made efforts to provide greater opportunities for their students.

My first two years at Southwest, not one eighth-grade team took any field trips, for instance.

At the end of my second year of teaching, a parent told me that she felt that we would have gotten more positive efforts, behaviors, and attitudes from our students if we would do more for them besides merely teach them (such as arranging field trips for them).

I took her comments to heart, and since then, field trips and other positive opportunties have been created for our students.

There are still students who do not change their efforts, attitudes, and behaviors, even knowing about those positive opportunities being made available for them.

But how many of the students who ultimately become positively engaged in our school environment might have chosen a more negative direction without those positive offerings?

It may be impossible to determine the answer, but the efforts must always be there.

Finally, to the Real Truth: you do yourself and your message a disservice by your gross generalizations about a group of people. There may be some members of the community you criticize who are guilty of what you charge them with, but by making some of the comments you make, you put yourself in no better a category than them, and any hope of people taking away constructive lessons from potentially legitimate points you have to make become lost, perhaps permanently. (Focus on the message, perhaps, and figure out how to persuade that your views are relevant and worth considering? Ignore negative comments directed at you, particuarly when you know within yourself that they have no merit? People can call me all kinds of names, and some, during the course of my life, have. If I know they're wrong, though, why do I need to respond to their negativity? Let them be ignorant and wrong, if they choose to be. Some of these comments are for us all, not just the Real Truth.)

We can't generalize or categorize people, because we all come from individual backgrounds and experiences that make us who we are today. How can anyone assume posters here don't know what it's like to grow up in poverty, in single parent homes, with alcoholism and other challenges? But the bottom line comes down to what our parent(s) expect from us, regardless of our color or ethnicity or economic status. Take Geraldine Barber, who raised twin sons Tiki and Ronde as a single parent after a divorce when the boys were only 4 years old. She worked multiple jobs but always had time to stress her values upon her children. She was quoted in the Roanoker magazine saying, "The hardest thing I had to teach my children is that life is not fair, but that you can't let that stop you from doing what's right." Maybe there's something to the character education programs established in some of our local elementary schools, beginning when the kids are in kindergarten. Does every school in Guilford have the same program?

Very good comments Seymour and ATS, I also agree that we cant go around generalizing. I really hope that Real Truth can stop name calling and we can get on with some serious discussions to improve our school climate.

Deborah, I'm sorry that you are now a target of TRT.

TRT, have you ever met Mr. Floyd?

I'll wait, because it's going to take you a while to get all of your appendages out of your mouth.

RT, The situation at SW middle this year was very complicated. Anyway, But you can bet one thing, that if anyone has changed a life of one of the lower income children it was Seymour Hardy Floyd. He is one EXCELLENT teacher that cares for ALL children Black, white, yellow or whatever.

You are so used to insulting people that you insult even those that try to reason with you.

Good morning Chalkboard.

I am happy to say that because of Garth Herbert's choice plan, my son will be allowed to stay at Southwest Middle School. (We are African Americans living in Oak Hollow Estates)

My son needs a role model like Mr. Floyd in his life and I am going to the school today to request placement on his team.

Thank you Mr. Floyd for caring about the children!!

Ignore Real Truth. He seems to find fault with everybody on this blog and I'm sure I am next. I could throw insults back and I'm sure that my comments would never be deleted since TRT's are never deleted or censored but I won't. We must start taking the higher ground! Blaming everything on the white race is not going to get it done. Take some responsibility for yourself and your family's future, Real Truth! If you aren't happy with your level of success, get busy! Teach your children differently. Stop blaming others!!

Jennifer and Morgan- I am using my real name. If TRT throws insults my way that are unfounded, I plan to sue for slander. I will expect you to appear in court with IP address information. This has to stop!!

Darlene,

I didn't say anything about Mr. Floyd except that I don't believe he said anything other than efforts he's made as a teacher. It sounds like he and other school administrators at SW are trying to make a difference. Good for them. But that has nothing to do with the school environment in every school. SW will remain un-impacted with poverty. It cannot be compared to challenges faced in other schools where poor kids are concentrated. Maybe Mr. Floyd should try teaching at an impacted school where he would make a bigger impact? I didn't say Mr. Floyd was a bad teacher, a bad person or anything. I simply said he said a whole lot of nothing. I don't know Mr. Floyd, I don't know if he's white, black or purple. I never singled him out. He addressed me and I responded. If he thinks SW middle was a tough,imagine if he had to teach in an impacted school. Nevertheless, hHe can rest easy now though because of Garth's segregation plan Poor children will be concentrated in two middle schools and he can return to the glory days when poor kids were kept out of the school. I bet even Buckmtn will get tired of paying tuition checks to HPCA and return to Sw now that is going back to the glory days of segregation.

I don't believe I've said anything that could be construed as slander. Ask a lawyer! I'm merely stating my opinion. You should be careful about making unfounded threats (ask a lawyer)!

Darlene I don't know you or the color of your skin but why are you choosing SW over other schools? Do you feel you cannot make a difference? What's wrong with the other school? By the way, Segregation doesn't just mean race. It means seperating people by various methods. In Garth's segregation school districting plan it has to do with income and it just so happens that most poor students in GCS are African American.

The Real Truth

TRT,

It's been our practice to delete any posts with swear words or sexual innuendo. So I deleted your earlier post because it included profanity.

Darlene,

Thanks for joining the Chalkboard. It's nice to have new voices here. A word of warning, though: people will insult each other on this blog. We've repeatedly asked folks to keep it civil, to no avail.

As I stated above, we'll delete comments that are profane or sexual in nature. But if we banned everyone who insults someone, well, we'd probably be left with about three people who could continue to post.

I hope this doesn't deter you. We'd love for you to join the conversation here.

Jennifer,

Profanity? Are you sure it was my post? I don't recall. Did I use the D word? If so sorry I thought I meant to say Darn. I'll be more careful next time.

RT,

Darlene stated she was African American (I believe that would be black) You said you didn't know the color of her skin.

FYI Mr. Floyd is black and an EXCELLENT role model. (You must have had some previous post according to Buckmtn since Jennifer had to delete it.) You insult the very people who help our children. There are many children in poverty now at SW schools. You apparently haven't been through the schools in a long time. Mr. Floyd does not have to explain to you why he wants to remain at SW and make a difference there. And if every teacher went to an impacted school, who would teach at the other hundreds of PUBLIC schools? Parents pay taxes to attend PUBLIC schools so therefore their children deserve a PUBLIC education. Most are the very parents who volunteer, the ones you insult daily.

You will never GET IT. Darlene does not have to explain why she wants to stay at SW, just as people never were asked to leave their home school of Central or Andrews in the fixed lottery plan. It was only SW parents who had to sacrifice their sanity for several years of stress in the lottery plan and constant threats of redistricting. This is not so for the rest of the county. SW love their school, sports, most of their teachers, just as Central or Andrews students do. We don't have to explain why we don't want CONSTANT turmoil in our daily lives.

You constantly mention why no one comes to your defense. Who would ever do that after they way you insultand make general, broad accusations of people you don't even know.

I feel sorry that you can't move on with your life. Others here are trying to work at providing safe, learning environments for all our children. The students, teachers and staff all deserve safe public schools.

Trust me. Buckmtn is NOT going back to Southwest.

And another thing...as a taxpayer the people are allowed to question Grier. Their taxes pay his salary.

and btw "seperating" is spelled "separating"

Jennifer, please quit making excuses for RT. Her rants have gone on for too long.

Debra,

Since my earlier post was deleted for using the D word (of course I read it in the paper often but I'll agree its best left not used) I'll restate what I said earlier. Since we are talking about school children, they don't have the freedom to choose their parents. They don't have the freedom to choose their neighborhood. They can't make their parents get better jobs or even be good parents. Remember they are only children.

Why do you think its ok to concentrate all poor children together and not give them the same advantages your children have? Its simply morally and ethically wrong. Civilized, enlightened people don't treat children that way. Only self entitled ethnocentric segregationists do. Why do you think your child deserves to go to Sw over some other child? Its a public school. I bet I contribute more to this county's tax base than you ever will but I don't feel so entitled. I think its more important to help those that need help and not cast them into a school with more disadvantages.

Didn't you see the problems at Andrews and their band. They were about to loose their band director because not enough kids were signing up for band. That is what happens when schools are concentrated with kids from poverty. Andrews isn't the only school. Central also has difficulty with the same issues. Their band has dwindled to a low number and the same can be said for the middle schools that feed them (Ferndale and Welborn). Have you ever attended an extra curricular activity at one of these impacted schools? There is a stark difference. Little or no parent involvement. Fewer teachers / administrators. SW not only has many more participants in the event but there are many more parents and teachers present. Its not because SW is better... its not.. its because its got a middle class base that other schools don't have. So I ask you again, why is it fair for your kids to have more? What is wrong with spreading resources equally so every school can have a band and a Lacrosse team.

Race and income are very relevant when you talk about school environment. I think you are afraid of the truth and that is why you want the issue left off the table. I'm not blaming the white race for all the ills of society as some of you posters have indicated but I do believe many of you don't understand when you are making statements that are ethnocentric (cannot use the R word because its sensative). You want to point the finger at Dr. Grier and the BOE while not dealing with the real problem. Garth's segregation plan only makes it worse. Many of you have rejoiced when the commissioners held back money from the school budget. You have taken pleasure from hurting kids all to get at your nemisis Dr. Grier. Shameful. So when I make statements about NHP segregationist I'm not talking about everyone in NHP. I'm talking about NHP Segregationists. Garth lovers who are happy to keep poor children out of their school. Shameful!

The Real Truth

The Real Truth

RT

Why do you feel you have to continually make any statements about "NHP Segregationists" on this blog. It solves nor changes anything. You just antagonize people. Get out and make positive changes as someone sugggested.

Many taxpayers believe the commissioners are finely wising up to the wasted money they see and the school system's blunders, i.e., Smith Academy. As you have must have read in the papers and on this blog the contruction team leaders are leaving. The commissioners want a time out to make sure someone competent is in charge of getting schools built properly, safely, efficiently and in a costly manner. That is why they delayed the bond vote until May.There is nothing wrong with the public wanting the best bang for the buck and the best facilities for our children. There is nothing wrong with questioning that money be spent wisely. This is only good common sense.

RT,

I dont know how many times you have been told this but Debora is not a SW parent. She lives in another part of the county. When are you going to put this SW thing behind you and move on as Darlene advised you?

In regards Andrews band. You have your facts wrong again. When this came up after more investigation by Terry Grier it was found that there is no problems with the band there. Someone was exagerating for some unknown reason.

Next fact?

I live in Summerfield and will have a student at Northern HS. No one at our school will have a marching band this year because we are too small, will you fight for us? Our teachers will commute over 30 miles between campuses one way each day... will you fight for them? We have to borrow fields to practice on.. Is that fair? We don't have enough teachers to offer alot of courses since we have less than 500 students... oh woe is me...

Every school has issues, the real truth in this world is that life isn't fair. You have to make the best of what life gives you. I pay taxes and how much is none of your business. I volunteer alot each week, how much is again not your business. I do think that I am fairly intelligent and try to offer decent comments.

You don't have to agree, but the last time I checked the right to live where I chose is still in the constitution. The right to hope that my taxes are used effeciently is still there. I personally hate to think of any school not having every opportunity, but my child's school doesn't have a cooking school, or Chinese, or Japanese, or German or Hebrew. I think it's great that others have those. I chose to look at that as a half full instead of half empty.

I have offered suggestions on climate improvement. Let's get back to some constructive dialogue.

Would anyone on this blog take the time to argue with a senile person? No, of course not. The same is true of RT. Leave him/her alone. Ignore him/her - the person has a real problem and somehow gets real satisfaction from angering intelligent people.

Please, no more posts directed at that person - I don't think he/she is capable of understanding intelligent conversation and debate.

Ahmen to that.

Goodnight and Godbless.

Where are my defenders. An un-named poster just called me senile! Thats the way you NHP entitled segregationists play the game. Because I don't share your ethnocentric middle class views I'm senile? As I've said before you started the name calling. I haven't called any specific person here a name.

Debra,

Where you live our how you live isn't relative to the discussion. Its about school climate. I'm just arguing that you cannot have a discussion about school climate without a discussion about the make-up of the student body. How can you have equal opportunity when you have large numbers of poor minority children segregated at one school and then a large middle class majority at another school? The climates are different. Race and income cannot be ignored in this process. Of course you want it ignored because in your selfish way of segregating schools you see it as a benefit to your children and don't care about the others. You don't want to have to consider that this unjust and unfair situation might have to change in order to make a positive difference. To use your Half full half empty analogy. The school system is the glass, your school is full, the other schools are empty but from your vanatage point things are great and you make no effort or have any empathy to fill the empty schools.

The Real Truth

Thank you Jennifer for the warm welcome.

I don't want to instigate TRT again but just want to say that with Garth's plan, EVERYONE that TRT seems to be protecting is allowed to go to SW if they want to. Transportation is provided! Nobody is "keeping poor children out of their school(SW)" rather we fought to get the plan passed where the poor children can CHOOSE! There is no reason for the poor children to stay in an impoverished school unless that is their CHOICE. It's an ingenious plan, really, and a plan used throughout Guilford County.

Also, TRT seems to defend Grier and the board members against what he calls the NHP segregationists because of comments made but I can't find one comment from anyone even mentioning Grier or the board members.

Now The Real Truth....who is living in the past? Please try to live for the present and your future. It will be the best thing for your children even if your attitudes can't/won't change. Maybe you should speak to a clergy member to check your anger. It works like poison and you will never be happy carrying that baggage around with you. I will continue to pray for you. Please, no more insults. Let's discuss things in a mature fashion...things that are happening NOW!

"Would anyone care to argue with a senile person?"

That is a cut and dry general question. There is no name calling involved nor directed at any one person. I have another question "Would anyone care to argue with a delusional person who imagines someone called them senile?" (another general question with no name calling)

Deb, PLEASE don't respond. Many of us know you and how much time you give to the schools, how many board meetings you attend and how involved you are with PTA. You do walk the walk not just talk the talk. You have many people in the community who admire your activisim for our children.

As someone mentioned before "life is not fair." There are many people who post on this very blog who had abusive childhoods or very poor childhoods. They made it. They rose above the hand they were dealt. They didn't join a gang. They made good choices and used the God given talents God gave them.

There are minority schools in many different cities with children from lower economic status that are thriving. About a month ago there was an article an a school that lowered the gap by facing the facts of the real problems about black children of lower economic means. No money was involved in the program. The program built the self-esteem and respect of the students among themselves. The teachers and administrators took the black children in one assembly and laid the problem and responsibility on the students. The members of the black community took the bull by the horns and lowered the gap by volunteering their time and being good role models. The scores increase immensely.

To say that poor children cannot learn is a tragedy. To say the only way they can learn is to bus them for 90 minutes across town is a tragedy.

As Debra and others have mentioned, Title I schools get extra funding. There is equity funding. There are community donations and community volunteers. Now we have Mission Possible with the jury still out on that program.

RT to answer your question "where are my defenders"? There are NONE, white, black, yellow, purple or orange. I haven't read any posts on this blog of people who share your views, opinions or who agree with your thinking process.

Give it up.

I apologize, I forgot to respond to one of TRT's questions. He asked why I chose SW rather than trying to make a difference in another school.

My job was in HP and I chose the Southwest area because of their test scores at the time. Yes, TRT, I want what I feel is best for my child. Being a black male he will face many challenges in his life. Having the option, yes, I want the best public education for him. You won't find many parents that are willing to sacrifice their child's future for the betterment of a race. And, what was he going to do for Welborn/Andrews? What could possibly be expected from a 12 year old boy? I will do MY part to right the wrongs of the past but I would be negligent as a parent to ask my son to do anything other than focus on his future.

If the Welborn/Andrews parents have similar attitudes to yours then I have made the right decision. Living life as a victim is prohibitive.

That's an awesome post, Darlene, and well spoken.

Garth's a great guy and seeks fairness for all. He really wants the peace back in our community just like the rest of us do. We're tired of the constant turmoil of redistricting. The focus now in our community and throughout Guilford County is getting the gangs out of our school, keeping our children safe and providing positive alternatives for children at risk of making bad choices.

Let's move on as you say from the past and all work toward helping ALL our children learn in a safe environment. They deserve to be safe.

Taxpayers are allowed to question Grier, the school board and any public official. It doesn't necessarily mean they hate any of these people.

Taxpayers can even choose to put a yellow magnet on their car that says "Get Grier Outta Here" if that's how they choose to express how they feel.

That's called free speech in this country. Does it necessarily mean they hate Grier? It's no different than Grier firing someone who he feels is not doing a good job. He just doesn't choose to put a magnet on his car that says "Get_ _ _ _ Outta here". He just does it and replaces them. It's called good business.

Can people choose to vote out, say for instance, Dot Kearns and put a magnet on their car expressing those sentiments? It may not mean they hate her. They just want a new person on the job that can do it better and work for the entire county, not just Central High School alumni. That's also free speech and politics in this country.

2008 will be a time for more positive changes.

Thank you Garth for the fine job you are doing for District 2 and the rest of the children in this county.

RT, Why dont you just continue to put your point of view but just leave out the name calling?