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Did the "team" suggest this?

Morgan....would freshmen start the year at the 'twilight' school if they had been suspended that many times in middle school, or would it be after they had been suspended 3 times in the 9th grade? Also, is it for the entire school year or for a time until the staff feel that remediation has occured?
Thanks for keeping us up to date!

these ideas are interesting. Dr. Grier always has innovative ideas. Money and follow-up are the problems. You can't propose something new the end of July and expect it to be ready in Aug; especially with around $3 million in cuts coming from the current budget proposal.

I do think we need alternative schools, the timing is my concern

I have nothing against Dr. Grier personally but he has had 6 or 7 years to curb discipline in Guilford County and hasn't been very successful. I hope he is letting the others share ideas. These other folks may have a better view of what is actually happening inside our schools.

Morgan Josey Glover...Thank you for keeping us up to date!

I don't meant to interrupt but I had some entries yesterday and wanted to see if I had any replies but can't find them. Were they all deleted?

I cannot answer some of your questions until I follow up with Dr. Grier. He proposed these ideas to the team (they were originally going to be part of his school climate program for the 07-08 school year). He told the task force last week that he would brief members on initiatives the district is looking at. Given that the task force has just started, I don't think anyone is expecting members to make recommendations yet.

Darlene,
Older posts are automatically filed to the right side of the Web page. You should be able to find comments under the post titles there.

For anyone who is interested, since SMOD is partially about discipline, the new dress code for SWHS is now available for viewing on the school website.

Until the parents intervene in this cycle of bad behavior by their kids, all the committees or money thrown at the problem won't mean a hoot.

If kids misbehave consistently, send them to a school for kids who misbehave, an alternative school. If that doesn't work, parent and child, society gave you the chance and now you face the consequence.

I am with you there Bubba. My point has always been that by trying to save the 5% and keeping them in school with no punishment this same 5% bring down another 25%. We lose more by trying to save a few.

It is not a good business case in my mind but how do we make the school board understand that?

This may be a little off subject; however, with more schools implementing SMOD next year as a supposed means to improve the school climate, does anyone know if the dress codes apply to the teaching staff also?

1,2,3 and 4 look like a watered down go nowhere areas.

How are these actions going to stop kids disrupting my childs classroom?

Are you really just interested in your child's experience at school? Did you know that the cost to our community for social service agency support to family's who are headed by a high school drop out exceed $32,000 a year? And you and I pay for that. And according to my information, the cost per day to house a child in the juvenile justice system is between $150-$200 per day versus the cost of public school education per day which is somewhere around $65.00. (someone help me out if I am off on that)

And if that child who disrupts the class ends up dropping out, the probability that he/she will end up involved in criminal activity is extremely high. So every time a child drops out of school you and I are more likely to be a victim of a violent crime. And that includes our children being victims of a violent crime.

So I will have a fit if a kid keeps interrupting my child's class too, but I will also want to find out what is going on with that kid. I want to get in between that kid and crime, to the extent that I can. I believe it is in my best interest to reach out to that kid.

And I believe it costs our community ALOT less to engage that kid at school, whatever that takes, versus letting him/her drop out and become a person who relies on social service support or a person who enters the justice system and ends up in prison. Guess how you get to prison? Usually because you have victimized someone. Will it be you or me?

So I believe it is an emergency that we reach EVERY kid. There is nothing more important. I am willing to go the extra mile for a kid that can't read at grade level. I am willing to go the extra mile for the kid who has problems at home. I am willing to go the extra mile for a kid with no active parents. I am willing to go the extra mile for a kid that has a mental health issue.

I believe it is in my best interest to do so. And as an adult in this community, it is my moral obligation. We are talking about kids.

Well said Terrina. Wish I could have articulated that as well as you did.

We have to keep these kids from falling through into the abyss of crime and failure. They don't have advocates so its up to us to advocate for them. It Takes a Village. Its everyone's responsibility.

Its also morally wrong for people to draw lines around their neighborhood defining it as their village... using socio-economic boundaries to define their village! We are all Gods Children.

The Real Truth

Fair enough Terrina. Very good. So we have 4 areas that deal with keeping the kids in school. Where is the 5th point about havibg discipline in school?
Do your kids go to a diverse school or they are in a white middle class school like Kernoodle for instance? I dont mean to be personal but if that is so then you dont see the problem that many of us do see. A small percentage are really affecting the majority here.

Fair enough Terrina. Very good. So we have 4 areas that deal with keeping the kids in school. Where is the 5th point about havibg discipline in school?
Do your kids go to a diverse school or they are in a white middle class school like Kernoodle for instance? I dont mean to be personal but if that is so then you dont see the problem that many of us do see. A small percentage are really affecting the majority here.

FYI: The BOE will receive an Update on New Light Student Suspension Program at the 7/26 meeting:

http://www.gcsnc.com/boe/2007/7_26/newlight_memo.html

Kernoodle is not a diverse school. Its upper middle class. I heard when that school opened lots of people pulled their kids out of private school. Its no reference to the reality of Guilford County.

I am okay with getting personal. And my kids do go to a mostly white middle class school. When we relocated here due to my husband's job, we had four days to find a home. My husband and I drove around with a realtor from Jamestown to Summerfield and all around Greensboro. In the end, we had to choose from what was on the market that week. So my kids go to Summerfield and Kernodle. I had no idea about all the issues here with schools. If I had, to be honest, I would have said no to the transfer.

That's why I also believe if we want to attract economic development in this area, we better improve our public schools.

However! I want to be clear that I am not volunteering my time on this committee to improve Summerfield and Kernodle. I have been in the schools across our county and I was really upset by what I was seeing. I have been to Eastern High (pre-fire) to Eastern Middle, to Guilford Middle, Page, Grimsley, Welborn, Dudley, High Point Central, Andrews and Allan Middle (among others). I have spent many hours at the SCALES school. I was not happy at all with what I was seeing. *Note: I am not saying the aforementioned schools are bad. My point is, I have been hanging out in the halls and classrooms.

I do see the discipline issues. It bothers me that any kids are going to school and experiencing that environment, and it bothers me that the teachers are totally stressed out at times. I just don't see how that environment supports learning, and as I mentioned in my previous post, I just think we have to get this right for all the kids. We all live in this community. I don't know about you, but I don't live in a bubble out here in NW Greensboro. I move all around the county in my daily errands and business, and it matters to me that all areas are family and kid friendly.

I have sat in classrooms and followed a particular student from class to class to just get an idea of how the school day goes for one kid or another, and most of what I see is pretty stressful. I just think, from the student's perspective, school is pretty stressful. Since my training is in mental health, I know that brains don't work when they are stressed. And cognitive processing diminishes when a person does not feel safe. The pre-frontal cortex shuts down and logic and reasoning ability goes out the window in deference to emotional responses. I believe this is what gets teachers flustered too. Have you ever heard someone say, "I was so upset I couldn't think straight!" ? That is actually what really happens in our brain. We can't be upset and also manage information processing functions. So our teachers ability to teach, and be effective is diminished by that stressful, unsafe, unstable environment.

I am concerned about your child at Eastern not getting a good education and you have every right to be upset about that. No question.

But how are we going to address this in a way that is really efficient and effective?

Alan Duncan and Dr. Grier have reflected that they are being pulled in two directions in the community with regard to how to solve this discipline issue.

One belief is: "Zero tolerance, get rid of the trouble makers."

The other is, "Don't suspend any kids. THere is a reason why they are behaving badly and we need to address it in the school building."

SO this is our impasse.

The other thing I know about human brains is that we tend to process information in dualities or in the framework of polarities. So we start making decisions and processing an issue based on the information we have and our experiences, biases and conditioning. And the first place we go is to polarites like GOOD/BAD, HIGH/LOW, ALL or NOTHING. So it makes sense that as a community we could be easily polarized on an issue. Especially an important one.

But polarity means a given solution will work for the kids at one extreme end of the pendulum and none of the others. OR it will work for the kids at the OTHER extreme end, and none of the others. We have to do something that serves the best interest of ALL CHILDREN.

So what if we just work this problem until we get it right instead of "working eachother" meaning turning on eachother in an effort to be right?

I understand the stakes here, and I really hope we can work this problem until we come up with solutions and action steps that really work. If human beings can create fax machines and space shuttles, can we not figure out how to run a safe and orderly school? Can we really not figure this out? I sure hope we can.

I am disappointed that a committee appointed to address discipline issues has decided not to make actual student behavior--surely one of the root causes of suspensions and expulsions--a central focus of its report. While I appreciate Ms. Picarello's comments that the committee will try to take a balanced approach, the statement of study areas for the final report suggests that the committee is already slanting to one side.

Meanwhile the majority take the consequences of the few.

I also appreciate what this team are doing and Ms.Picarellos comments but whole the disruptions go on the more children we lose to private school and for those that cant leave their test scores stay at mediocre.

I hope that while the committees work to find solutions to the problems in our schools, all children will have the option of attending another school like the newest choice plan in High Point. The fact is that it will take many months to find the right solution and achieve results (if not longer) and it would be nice if all the impacted schools gave their students a different option - with transportation!

"I just don't see how that environment supports learning..."
"School is pretty stressful..."
"And cognitive process diminishes when a person does not feel safe"...
"Our teachers' ability to teach and be effective is diminished by that stressful, unsafe, unstable environment...."
"can we figure out how to run a safe and orderly school?..." quoted Terrina

Everything you have said is true, Terrina.
1. That environment does not support learning. This is what we have been trying to say. The majority of children who want to learn and do not disrupt class are having their educations sacrificed to try to "figure out" why the others who constantly disrupt the class are doing so. Meanwhile while you are "figuring it out" for those children, the majority of the children who want to learn are being cheated out of their public education that their parents pay taxes for. Worse than that we are losing great children and family volunteers to private school.
2. School is stress to ALL children, teens in middle school and high school. It always has been. That has not changed. What has changed are the negative influences in society, the media, peer pressure, the internet that our chilren have to deal with. What has changed is that our public schools have become too tolerant of what is accepted. There are no consequences for bad behavior, so the negative behavior continues as the students know there are no significant consequences.
3. Cognitive process diminishes when a person does not feel safe. Amen to that one. How about when children are afraid to go to the bathroom all day because they don't feel safe in their own school? or go unaccompanied to classes in trailers? or walk down certain hallways in their schools for fear of being threatened?
4. Our teacher ability to teach is diminished if they don't feel safe. Amen to that too. We have been saying this. We are constantly losing great teachers because of these safety issues.
5. Can we figure out how to run a safe and order school? It's not rockets science. Look at what other successful schools systems do, public or private. You cannot run a safe and ordering school if children are constantly aloud to disrupt, fight, cuss at teachers and be totally disrespectful have no consequences. This is not how real society operates. Children who behave in such a manner will not be able to find decent paying jobs even if they don't drop out. In the end, if their behavior does not change, even if they make it through high school, changes are they will sooner or later turn to crime to support themselves.

To be honest, we are interested in our child's experience in school. You only get one chance at being a parent and it's a tough job today. As Darlene pointed out in another post what can her 12 year old black male son do to change Welborn or Andrews? She has to raise him the best she knows how as a caring parent.

We would all like to see discipline and order in our schools but we are tired of the few hurting the education of the majority of children who want to learn. I think the Twilight Schools and alternative schools have potential. The bottom line is we need to remove children from the classroom who refuse to follow the rules. In order for a school to be safe, you must have rules.

Terrina, following kids in school is great to see what goes on in other schools. Many of us do that and help in our own ways. But as others have said, this does not affect your life personally day to day as you don't have to deal with it in your white, middle class schools in the Northwest area. You don't have these issues. If your child felt unsafe going to his school, you would be seeing things differently. If your child was attacked for no reason, I think your first instinct as a mother would be to protect him and not try to "figure out" why the other kid beat the crap out of your kid.

Ditto to everything you said Dave Ribar,

There ARE reasons why kids behave badly. But allowing the bad behavior to continue without any consequences does these kids a disservice. Besides that it makes the kids who are behaving wonder why bother to behave if you can break the rules and do whatever you want with no consequences. In an orderly society if you break the rules, there are consequences.

And if it "takes a village to raise a child" what about the parents' and child's responsbility?

25% of children that start as Freshmen in High school do not get to their senior year. This is not a new problem, it has been happening for the many years now ( at least the last four years). To put a number on it this percentage is 1500 kids a year. Better still, 6000 start High School every year and 4500 are enrolled in their senior year.

We havent done very well have we?

My point is if these 1500 lost kids had been in a enviroment where there was discipline and learning it may not have been such a high number.

1500 a year means that we have already lost the war. Why not try zero tolerance then? Maybe we can save a few and maybe we can actually teach more sucessfully!

So.....Terrina, when are you running for school board?

This community NEEDS more parents like you, willing to take the unpopular stand in order to help our children...Thank you for all you do!

Terrina, Until your children attend a diverse school with gangs, major bad behavior issues, disrespect, disruptions, and discipline problems, and you can empathize with what many children and parents have to deal with on a daily basis, you have no valid reference point. I applaud your efforts in trying to help some of these lost children but what about the 75% who deserve to have a safe learning environment?

"The cognitive process diminshes when a person does not feel safe."

We can learn a little from private schools. Bad behaviour is just not tolerated.

Why cant we take the same stance in Public education?

Note: Keep up the good work Terrina.

CS,

In reference to your puzzle analogy on another strand and every piece must fit, we must all bring a piece to the table or how can we fix the problem, etc. That was a great analogy BUT

In real life some pieces cannot always be fixed and we have to face that reality too. That is the real truth. We can't "save" every child. Once a "child" is 16 (or even younger)the mold has been set. With strong positive intervention and the right help, a hard core troubled kid could possibly change but you are fighting years of a possible bad home environment, street smarts, negative peer pressure, etc.

We need to focus on not losing the majority of children who are on the right path or may be straddling the fence to join a gang, do drugs, making poor grades in school.

Not all pieces of the puzzle are always willing to come to the table. It takes the teacher, administration, a willing parent and a student at least wanting to try. If pieces are missing, it won't work. In the end, it's up to the student to make right choices or face the consequences. That is real life.

t

CS,

I appreciate your analogy on the previous blog strand about the puzzle and everyone owning a piece of the puzzle to make it work. What about parents and students who do not want to come to the table to bring their piece of the puzzle? What about those people who do not take responsibility for their own actions but continually look for excuses for their bad behavior or simply don’t care? The repeat offenders?

The truth of the matter is by age 16 or younger personalities and behavior is set. In some circumstances with the right intervention some positive changes might happen. But if someone comes from a tough family situation, is already in a gang, has the negative influence of today’s media, and negative peer pressure it is a rough uphill battle to change someone. In the meantime, do we sacrifice the educations of the majority of students who want to be in school and learn for those who have no desire to be there and just want out? What about the majority of kids who may be on the fence of joining a gang or doing drugs? How do we prevent this?

In some cases, even if we can have children at risk who do graduate but don’t have marketable skills to earn a decent living, they may still resort to a life of crime to have an income. In the end there is still the pipeline to prison for many no matter what you try. You just can’t save every child but maybe we could help prevent losing some to the streets who aren’t there yet. What about providing a safe education for those who want to be there? These children are our futures.

I also think Jeff Belton needs to be on this committee. He had some enlightening stories about some of the serious problems with hard core trouble makers in his high schools. There should be a balance of ideas on this committee. I hope at the next meeting the SROs will be there. We need to add more goals about addressing discipline and enforcing the rules in the school hand books.

ta

Private schools can deny an education to anyone they please, whenever they please, if someone doesn't fit their criteria. Do you suggest we have a similar attitude for public schools?

It seems that Grier has admitted that having special schools will increase student performance. It has taken him 8 years but he has admitted it.

8x1500 children = 12000 children.

What gets me is that this stupid County actually pats him on the back and calls him inovative!!

We are indeed STUPID!

CS,

I appreciate your analogy on the previous blog strand about the puzzle and everyone owning a piece of the puzzle to make it work. What about parents and students who do not want to come to the table to bring their piece of the puzzle? What about those people who do not take responsibility for their own actions but continually look for excuses for their bad behavior or simply don’t care? The repeat offenders?

The truth of the matter is by age 16 or younger personalities and behavior is set. In some circumstances with the right intervention some positive changes might happen. But if someone comes from a tough family situation, is already in a gang, has the negative influence of today’s media, and negative peer pressure it is a rough uphill battle to change someone. In the meantime, do we sacrifice the educations of the majority of students who want to be in school and learn for those who have no desire to be there and just want out? What about the majority of kids who may be on the fence of joining a gang or doing drugs? How do we prevent this?

In some cases, even if we can have children at risk who do graduate but don’t have marketable skills to earn a decent living, they may still resort to a life of crime to have an income. In the end there is still the pipeline to prison for many no matter what you try. You just can’t save every child but maybe we could help prevent losing some to the streets who aren’t there yet. What about providing a safe education for those who want to be there? These children are our future.

I obviously did not do a good job in communicating. I care just as much for the kids who are behaving and who come to learn. I believe it would be devasting to the public schools here to keep losing involved middle class parents to private schools.

I just think the way to create that learning environment is to find out what is going on with that out of control kid. I am not seeing that as mutually exclusive. I think those two things can exist together. Again, to do otherwise is all or nothing solution focused. How can these exist together? Can we not address the needs of the child who is acting out AND make sure the classroom is stable for the kid who comes to learn?

That is managing complexity which is what we are being called to do in the 21st century.

Why do we have to just pick one child to serve? I believe we are more powerful and resourceful than that.

Do you really think I do not advocate for the middle class kid that comes to learn?

That's my kid, remember!

Terrina,

As you stated earlier, many of the posters here only care about their own children so they automatically assume you are biased like they are. They can't imagine that a person would work to improve schools for everyone. They don't understand the concept of "it takes a village." Some of the posters here would push the poor kids into ovens if it meant keeping their little suburban children segregated.

The Real Truth

I would probably be tempted to push some grown-ups in.

CS,

I appreciate your analogy on the previous blog strand about the puzzle and everyone owning a piece of the puzzle to make it work. What about parents and students who do not want to come to the table to bring their piece of the puzzle? What about those people who do not take responsibility for their own actions but continually look for excuses for their bad behavior or simply don’t care? The repeat offenders?

The truth of the matter is by age 16 or younger personalities and behavior is set. In some circumstances with the right intervention some positive changes might happen. But if someone comes from a tough family situation, is already in a gang, has the negative influence of today’s media, and negative peer pressure it is a rough uphill battle to change someone. In the meantime, do we sacrifice the educations of the majority of students who want to be in school and learn for those who have no desire to be there and just want out? What about the majority of kids who may be on the fence of joining a gang or doing drugs? How do we prevent this?

In some cases, even if we can have children at risk who do graduate but don’t have marketable skills to earn a decent living, they may still resort to a life of crime to have an income. In the end there is still the pipeline to prison for many no matter what you try. You just can’t save every child but maybe we could help prevent losing some to the streets who aren’t there yet. What about providing a safe education for those who want to be there? These children are our futures.

Someone earlier said that it takes a village to raise a child. That is an African proverb which I find to be untrue. First, Africa is one of the poorest, disease ridden, out of control places on Earth. I certainly don't need that village to raise my child.

Furthermore, I don't want the village's help when it comes to raising my child. I don't need help with how to love, feed, clothe or discipline him. He is MY responsibility. I have to answer to my Lord later regarding the job I've done. These children are gifts from God given to the PARENTS, not the community.

I understand offering help when the parents have asked for help. These children in gangs need our help but if the parents don't want it, it won't work. I think most of our resources should be geared toward the younger kids. I know we have high-schoolers headed for prison but there is little that can be done at this point. I feel that 75% of the resources need to be focused on the younger, at-risk children. Hopefully, the parents of these children haven't thrown up their hands yet and will want our help.

Let's face it, if the parents don't back us up on this endeavor, it will fail. The village can't do it alone!

Amen and ditto that Darlene.

This is exactly how I have always felt about raising children, that they are a true gift from God, you only get one chance on this earth to get it right the best you can, and in the end it is the parent who has to answer to God and no one else. If we know we do our best that we know how and our child chooses the wrong path, then that is their choice.

I read a long time ago (was either Aristotle or Socrates) that the parents are the bows and the children the arrows. We can direct them the best we can, to make the right choices, then it's up to them.

If it "Takes a Village to Raise a Child" what if the "Village" is the trash we see on TV, in the movies, on the internet, what the Hollywood people push or the gangster images in rap music? Is this the "village" you would want raising your child. If the parent is absent from the "village" then that is what happens.

"Nough" said.

"push the poor kids in the oven"

There she goes again making false, outrageous accusations of people she doesn't know.

I am tired of worrying about my daughter's safety @ GMS. Very tired. SMOD didn't work. Now Grier wants to send the 16 year old "Problems" to Guilford Middle. No way. She is 12. We will take out a loan for private school!

Terrina, What GMS is reporting is the cost of no discipline in this school system. Its happenning more and more. I wrote to the school board about this earlier this year and all I got back was a rude reply.

Poster,

Could you elaborate on the rude reply? What elected official would do that? These people are supposed to listen to our concerns. Just as bad may be the ones that didn't respond at all. This is UNACCEPTABLE! Maybe the only way to fix the problems in this school system is to start right at the top with our board members. We should demand better.

Good luck trying to demand better from our school board!

Been there, done that. It doesn't work.

Once folks get elected, they forget that they are representatives, not "benevolent dictators." I've received rude comments in emails from several board members (school board, county commissioners and city council), and it is beyond upsetting.

Yes Terrina, most of us who moved here for a job would opt against that move, but hindsight is 20/20. I never thought that the schools could be so poor and that the leadership in a county could be so arrogant. Until GUILFORD COUNTY SCHOOLS is treated like ONE system, there will be issues. We didn't live here "pre-merger". It is out of my experience to know what happened then.

What I know is that the children of Guilford County who attend public schools are suffering at the hands of an out of control school system. It is so flawed, on so many levels, I don't know if it can be fixed at all. What saddens me even more, is that many of the people who live here don't know what it's like to have children in a school system that works.

Once folks get elected, they forget that they are representatives, not "benevolent dictators." I've received rude comments in emails from several board members (school board, county commissioners and city council), and it is beyond upsetting.

Yes Terrina, most of us who moved here for a job would opt against that move, but hindsight is 20/20. I never thought that the schools could be so poor and that the leadership in a county could be so arrogant. Until GUILFORD COUNTY SCHOOLS is treated like ONE system, there will be issues. We didn't live here "pre-merger". It is out of my experience to know what happened then.

What I know is that the children of Guilford County who attend public schools are suffering at the hands of an out of control school system. It is so flawed, on so many levels, I don't know if it can be fixed at all. What saddens me even more, is that many of the people who live here don't know what it's like to have children in a school system that works.

The current school board have forgot who their customer is: The parents and the majority of children.

The seem to prefer focusing on a small minority of children who virtually have no parents. I agree that these kids need help but dont ignore or treat the majority like crap and like they dont know what is good for their children.

This whole discussion reminds me of the old 80-20 rule, which is always so prevalent in so many organizations. The 80-20 rule says that you spend 80% of your time and efforts on the under-performing 20%, and very little time with the rest of the population. This is true of most work managers. They spend 80% of their time dealing with the 20% of employees who are performance problems and nearly no time with their best performers. Logic would tell you that the reverse would be much more productive.

It does take a village to a point. However, the raising of a child should be the primary responsibility of the parents who've hopefully planned for the security and future of their child before deciding to conceive instead of breeding like rabbits and then expecting society to nurture their spawn.

The reason there were few problem children in the schools where I was enrolled during my youth (50's and 60's) was because the school system held the parent responsible for the conduct of their child. Of course, today it's difficult to determine among some families which one is the child.

I'm disturbed when all it takes is one incorrigible student negatively impacting a classroom that my youngest attends and affects his learning of which he takes very seriously. For I as a responsible parent have imparted to my offspring the importance of education and it's impact upon them getting a career and living a productive life.

This committee can have all the meetings they want to discuss the matter of bad behavior but it will be for naught in light of the fact that instead of dealing with the child, the parent MUST also be dealt with in order to stop this cycle of a cultural acceptance of bad behavior.

Until that occurs, I don't give a d__n (sorry Jesus) if a child who refuses to respect authority might, unfortunately, eventually dropout, become incarcerated, end up in a juvenile center and costs taxpayers to house. Better he or she is there than in our schools disrupting the lives of those kids who are determined to make a life better for themselves and consequently for others.

It's called personal responsibility for one's actions and no amount of committee meetings can instill that in others. It's time that parents realize that the reason their kids are misbehaving is because they're just like mom and dad.

Lord Hear Our Prayers

Great points Bubba and well said. Nice to see you back on the Chalkboard again.

Also in the 50s and 60s (my era too) if you got in trouble at school it wasn't "my parent will sue you". You knew you would be in more trouble when you got home. It was all the age of the more traditional family where both parents didn't work and you usually had two parents in one home.

Unfortunately, much has changed since then with the family dynamics and make-up, along with modern technology, the media, the internet and a more liberal society. It's a different world we have to deal with.

I like the idea of the Twilight Schools and getting the trouble makers out of the traditional classrooms. Someone suggested they do jobs like, menial jobs as part of detention to let them know this is the type of job you can get if you don't have an education (that and selling drugs, of course).

Bubba, Good points but I have to ask you a question. You were in the past very critical of anyone that challenged the school Board or Dr. Grier.
Have you cahnged your mind?

If you'll recall, whoever you are, one of my main points of argument with respect to Dr. Grier was that in my opinion, through no fault of his own, he was damaged goods (open to derision from certain people in the community) in light of the fact that the Board, from whom he gets his marching orders, had placed Dr. Grier in the unenviable position of being the lightning rod for criticism as a result of some of the policy stands that the Board took. Dr. Grier is nothing more than a hireling like nobodies like me and whoever you are are. He reports to the Board and carries out their instructions. Certainly, sometimes he doesn't agree with those directions, but in order for him to keep his job, keep food on the table, and raise a family, he's gotta survive and cowtow to the majority of the Board's whims and wishes.

My point all along has been, that as a community we are a reflection of who we vote to represent us on the Board and accordingly shouldn't be so surprised with respect to the results, and if we're displeased with those who we entrusted to represent us, Thomas J., John A., and a host of others made certain we had that privilege where we could vote for somebody else next time.

Bubba Loves Jesus,

I don't disagree with what you said about personal responsibility and the breakdown of family values. Nevertheless, it is what it is and these are children we are talking about. We cannot turn a switch and fix it. Its going to take a huge effort to turn the tide and restore values and personal responsibility and the schools cannot do it alone. In the mean time, as compassionate civilized adults its our duty to help them and steer them on the right path. We cannot hold these children responsible for their parents actions or inactions. We owe it to them to do whatever it takes to nuture them and provide them with opportunity. Sure some will go bad but we can limit the number. I just don't think a prison school is the answer.

When they fail, we all fail. Our society, economy and way of life is dependent upon well trained prodeuctive citizens. We all own this problem. We cannot segregate ourselves from it. It will revisit us later with lower productivity, a sagging econmoy and higher taxes.

If one of these middle class parent's kid gets in a fight (and oh yes they fight too) and gets sent off to the prison school I think their attitude will be different. They too often assume that their kids are behaving perfectly but some are into violence, drugs, sex and alcohol and if they don't believe it they have their heads in the sand. I guess what I'm saying careful what you wish for. Smaller class sizes and personal relationships with teachers (like Seymour) trained to connect with these kids is a step in the right direction. Segregating kids isn't the answer.

The Real Truth

So now you’re The Real Truth instead of just being The Truth. I’ve been gone too long.

I'm unaware of school systems in North Carolina saying you must go to a school because you're of a certain ethnicity. There are Blacks, Asians, Arabs, Hispanics, and even some White kids who attend my son's school so your comment about segregation confounds me. Now there are parents who would prefer their kids not associate with other ethnicities and some of these parents opt out and do send their kids to the lilly white private schools, but as far as being an institutional policy, I disagree with you and we know that Dr. Grier wouldn’t allow that.

Please don't put me in the category of if some other child fails, then I've failed also. I don’t fail other parent’s kids. But I fail my kids when I don’t be the responsible parent that society requests that I should be. See that’s the problem with our society. Some of our elected officials have the philosophy that government is the cure all for all of society’s ills, and unfortunately there are many of us who’ve bought into that lie. Our government tells us that if as members of this society we fail to finish High School, we don’t care who we fornicate with and produce babies we can’t afford or love, we don’t seek and keep gainfully employed, not to worry, ‘cause government is there to provide the safety net for us that will give us all the disincentives in the way of free money, free food, and subsidized housing, to not better ourselves and thus break the bonds of poverty and the irresponsible lifestyle we live.

How in the name of almighty Yahweh can our education system assume a greater role in parenting when the challenge is on just for the instructor to provide a quality education, let alone be a psychologist, a mother or father figure to some kid whose family has forsaken him/her, and sadly to say, a peace officer.

Scarier still is the quality of teachers coming forth from our universities who will be the ones training our kids to face the challenge of the global impact that will be effecting their lives. I recently read a subscriber’s letter to a major newspaper indicating that “….between 2001 and 2004 of the 51 fields of graduate study tabulated by the Educational Testing Service, the bottom 10 fields of scoring on the verbal and math are headed for – or more likely, already employed by – public education systems. This GRE snapshot of the capabilities of the people who run government schooling monopolies is….” unbelievably bleak. We're not hiring the best and brightest to educate our kids and eventually we'll suffer the consequences.

Yet we need more programs and paper shufflers to solve the problems of our education system. Rrrrriiiigggghhhhttttt.

Poppycock and sheer balderdash.

Lord Hear Our Prayers

Bubba,

You have been gone toooo long.

Truth and The Real Truth are two different posters. Truth quit posting under that name because of the similarity to The Real Truth.

Great post Bubba!

Guilford North
Wednesday, August 1, 2007
Looking at stressful climate in our schools
By Terrina Picarello
Contributing Writer

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070801/NEWSREC0112/708010305/1058/NEWSREC0112