Nooses found at Andrews High School
Police and Guilford County Schools are investigating four nooses found on the campus of Andrews High School this morning.
Administrators found the nooses around 8:30 a.m. and immediately notified High Point police, said Chad Campbell, spokesman for the school system. Two nooses were hung on a tree in front of the school; others were found on top of a flag pole and in an old bus parking lot.
School officials do not know if the nooses were hung as a prank or if they were connected to recent national publicity about a similar incident at a high school in Jena, La., last year.
Some Andrews students saw the nooses before they were removed, Campbell said, and the district will offer counseling. Principal Monique Brooks Wallace also plans to send out a Connect-Ed telephone message about the incident to parents and a letter home with students. Administrators have also asked students to report suspicious or disruptive behavior.
“Obviously students are disappointed that this would take place, as well as the district,” said Campbell, speaking from the school. “We will not tolerate behavior that is discriminatory.”
Comments (30)
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Once again ... over reaction to a childish prank ..........
with the over reaction will probably come more copycats.......
Keep reportting these things as "news worty items"....and we are going to have more problems than solutions......
I've looked Morgan......
This newspaper has given more copy to Jena 6 and reaction which you have helped to perpetuate than to the 6 murders of formal Guilford County Students!!!!. Your not the only guilty ones...it has been on every news channel in the country.
Lets be accountable in reporting and spend less time exaggerating .....Non...news worthy events......
Let the local school deal with the ignorant few ... if they are even students... no one even knows who did this yet...
It could have been anyone ..
Be a responsible reporter................
Jena 6 students are felons........assault/battery....with the questionable intent to killl????
Have you ever seen four-six students jump, kick, punch 1 student......I have......
It can give you quite a different perspective on the matter... regardless of race...when you see
puddles of blood under the group.
Nooses might hurt your feelings...maybe even make you afraid...., but it doesn't kill anyone.
I am not saying it is right...but take it down, through it away, and give it the attention it deserves....None!!
Black students wearing black hoodies over their heads make me afraid in our school...
gangster wear is imtimidating......so let's get a group and beat him up...
no....implement SMOD or let's ignore it....hello!!
JENA 6... are NOT heroes!!!!!. If they are quilty of kicking and throwing punches,
they should be called criminal 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ,6..... and serve time for the crime...............
This is what a trial for and it is not suppose to happen in the news......
Posted on September 21, 2007 1:19 PM
By the way,
I haven't seen any reports or letters of apology sent home when gang members desecrated our school buildings with
the Crypts, Bloods, and Sur 13 paintings on the walls.......................
They have six on 1 beat downs in our schools weekly.....gang initiations......
Why is this not on the national news????????
Why don't principals send home letters of apologies when a gun is found on a student on the campus?
Posted on September 21, 2007 1:29 PM
Given the comments from the "Get Grier Outta Here" crowd on the Chalkboard, this is hardly surprising.
Hey - maybe they can add nooses to their roadside display over across from Southwest High.
Posted on September 21, 2007 1:42 PM
I don't recall the use of nooses in any "Get Grier Outta Here" efforts. It would have been a waste of good rope any way.
The only way to "Get Grier Outta Here" remains over-turning that incompetent Board next year.
By the way Grier did a bad acting job in front of the camera today. He does not care about any of these Andrews kids.
Posted on September 21, 2007 6:23 PM
Please Stop, You are so correct.
Posted on September 21, 2007 9:41 PM
Go Figure, That is a very offensive and poor poor taste comment.
Posted on September 22, 2007 9:49 AM
It's obvious that racism is still hear today and the more we ignor it, the more it will linger. The person who made the comment about black students wearing black hoodies makes her nervous is the most ignorant person i've heard a comment from in a while. It doesnt matter how a person looks, if they aren't bothering you then... so what. The truth of the matter is that no really cares unless it happens to them or their kind. Everyone's child is innocent in their eyes. What parent do you see walking around saying to the public "Please give my child the worst penalty possible, he deserves to suffer. " No one.
I think that the news should continue to cover stories like this because it lets the ignorant know that we are aware of whats going on and we will not tolerate it. I hope they find the kids who did this and try to give them a sentence for beyond what fits the crime, just as they did the Jena 6 kids. We'll see who's talking, protesting, and marching then. As long as there are people who point out differences in others to their children, we will always have these issues in society and as a mother of 3 inter-racial children it is my duty to teach my children that people are people and love is love. Every white person is not a serial killer, every arabic is not a terrorist, every hispanic is not a gang banger, and every black person is not a theif. We are people, one nation under God. It's time to start acting like it.
Posted on September 23, 2007 3:22 PM
It's obvious that racism is still hear today and the more we ignor it, the more it will linger. The person who made the comment about black students wearing black hoodies makes her nervous is the most ignorant person i've heard a comment from in a while. It doesnt matter how a person looks, if they aren't bothering you then... so what. The truth of the matter is that no really cares unless it happens to them or their kind. Everyone's child is innocent in their eyes. What parent do you see walking around saying to the public "Please give my child the worst penalty possible, he deserves to suffer. " No one.
I think that the news should continue to cover stories like this because it lets the ignorant know that we are aware of whats going on and we will not tolerate it. I hope they find the kids who did this and try to give them a sentence for beyond what fits the crime, just as they did the Jena 6 kids. We'll see who's talking, protesting, and marching then. As long as there are people who point out differences in others to their children, we will always have these issues in society and as a mother of 3 inter-racial children it is my duty to teach my children that people are people and love is love. Every white person is not a serial killer, every arabic is not a terrorist, every hispanic is not a gang banger, and every black person is not a theif. We are people, one nation under God. It's time to start acting like it.
Posted on September 23, 2007 3:23 PM
It's obvious that racism is still hear today and the more we ignor it, the more it will linger. The person who made the comment about black students wearing black hoodies makes her nervous is the most ignorant person i've heard a comment from in a while. It doesnt matter how a person looks, if they aren't bothering you then... so what. The truth of the matter is that no really cares unless it happens to them or their kind. Everyone's child is innocent in their eyes. What parent do you see walking around saying to the public "Please give my child the worst penalty possible, he deserves to suffer. " No one.
I think that the news should continue to cover stories like this because it lets the ignorant know that we are aware of whats going on and we will not tolerate it. I hope they find the kids who did this and try to give them a sentence for beyond what fits the crime, just as they did the Jena 6 kids. We'll see who's talking, protesting, and marching then. As long as there are people who point out differences in others to their children, we will always have these issues in society and as a mother of 3 inter-racial children it is my duty to teach my children that people are people and love is love. Every white person is not a serial killer, every arabic is not a terrorist, every hispanic is not a gang banger, and every black person is not a theif. We are people, one nation under God. It's time to start acting like it.
Posted on September 23, 2007 3:23 PM
Sure sounds like "Real Truth" is back under a new name. The mispelling of the word "thief" was a give away (plus the description of your children.) I do think most of your Volvo stickers have correct spellings on them. I agree that kids in gang attire make my kids real nervous.
To Go Figure, that was truly an offensive, uncalled for comment. You don't know many of the people who post on the Chalkboard.
No one knows who did this prank. It could be minorities doing it themselves to blame whitey (similar to some certain elections signs being covered with yellow raincoats by their own people).
Of course, we knew Deena's picture would be front an center in the press on this issue. Maybe she should deal with all the problems at Smith first before she judges a High Point school for an obvious prank.
Posted on September 25, 2007 12:00 AM
i am a junior at t.w.andrews high school...i am african american and i am a female...i was very offened by what happend last friday...the students at andrews are not mad about what happend friday we're in shock...we read,hear,and watch movies on racism all the time...but until it really happens to YOU it doesnt set in...when i saw the nooses i cried...it hurt me to know that people are that hateul...i dont care who did it...they should be punished...this is a BIG deal and anyone trying to make it smaller than what it is should ne ashamed of themselves..man or woman boy or girl...because if it wouldve happend to you,you wouldve reacted just like us kids at andrews...THIS IS NO JOKE...
to please stop:you are a joke...u need to stop living in a dream and face the real world...this is not a dress rehersal this is reality...this is a very serious matter...you arent giving it the justice it deserves...andrews is always being blamed for things that we dont do...and for the first time we get done wrong and everyone wants to throw this issue away...F that...if it was southwest...grimsley...page...or eastern people would be all over it...but it happpens to andrews and yall want to do is throw it away???...BS!!!...justice will be served reguardless of what you think...you need to put down your "people"magazine and pick up a history book...you are obviously closed minded and looking at this from one side...try both sides...and until u do that...PLEASE STOP!!
Posted on September 26, 2007 12:35 PM
Concerned Andrews Junior....
If you are a student from Andrews and you are this upset, I apologize for "appearing" to be inconsiderate.
It is still my opinion, that this was a very inappropriate childish prank that should have been dealt with as such. I would
have not given the pranksters prime time news coverage and press which I am sure they are gloating in. It was just what
they wanted to happen!! You can choose to react or to ignore these ignorant, immature people....
Ignore them and they will receive no satisfaction for their deeds.
Reality ... get your head up out of the history book and look around at what is really going on....now.
........... five young men being gunned down in the streets of Greensboro?
........... 70 year old women being shot in the afternoon in her business?
........... three young men murdering a 12 year old girl?
............three young men jumping and assaultiing and beating one?
............gangs graffiti/initiations
Now these are reasons to be upset....this is what we should be having community forums about!!!
Yet I have not heard one speak out on these issues......................
Posted on September 26, 2007 2:04 PM
Junior at Andrews,
I noticed that you made your post during school hours - is that appropriate?
A 14 year old 9th grade student minding his own business and walking to class was brutally attacked by 3 older students (2 suspended) at Grimsley High School the other day.
That is a tragedy.
This child will need reconstructive surgery to repair the broken bones in his face.
An innocent child was nearly killed.
Where's the outrage?
We need to direct our energies toward ending real violence in our schools.
Tell me, would you rather have rope hanging in a tree or be fighting for your life in a hospital?
Posted on September 26, 2007 3:58 PM
I live in Alabama and i read the news on a daily basis. Its said that people find ways to hurt other people. True somethings can and should be looked over but not all things. My heart goes out to mychael bell and his family because of the way the system is handling things Justice should be serve on both ends. If appropriate action had of been taken when the noose were hung then this other stuff wouldn't of escalate Other things took place after the noose were hung from the tree that people seem to look over I'm not saying that what the jena 6 done was right but neither was the white kids to my understanding the white kids had been pranking and picking for some time and i think they felt that they could continue to get away with it and the black kids got tired of it. No it wasn't right on either end but that just goes to show you how the system works. Yes mychael should pay for the crime he committed but so should those white boys. Mychael didn't do anything to have the book thrown at him when it all boils down to it the DA is diggin up much as he can to ruin that kids future and career. And for Andrews I feel bad that someone would see all this happen and still go out to pull what some call a prank like this. Whom ever took the time out to do that knew what they were doing and did it intentionally to hurt someone and make them angry I pray they be caught and pay for their premeditated action. I have a 13 year old son whom was beaten up by 3 white cops and he had to be transported to the ER the chief of police defined his officers and they tried to call my bluff by telling me all kinds of lies about what supposely gone wrong. I wasn't hearing it I continued to take legal action against the police we're still going to court now after I done my on investigation I learned that the cop intentionally beat up my son while other kids his age watched I turn to the system for help and they up hold the cop they insist on giving my son a state appointed attorney and at his first hearing his attorney did or said nothing in his defense I immediately fired him and hired my son an attorney although white cops hurt my son it didn't make me hate other white people but it did open my eyes that everybody in the justice system isn't honest and some are even prejudice and I will not let them get away with what they did to my son Again my heart goes out to the parents and the children that has to watch and put up with these cruel action from stupid people and the unjust system I've watched and observe how the system operated and all does is manipulate people innocient and guilty to make their job easier and they even go as far as getting revenge or sticking it to someone because they don't like what they did or disagree with it. The law should be upheld not twisted and tossed and turned to fit our agenda or to get even with someone what ever happen to to protect and serve liberty and justice for all? People forgot just that quick that the noose hanged from a school tree is root of this whole thing I must say somethings can't be dealt or let go until you get to the root of it and take care of it why do you think whom ever hung those noose at Andrews did that because they think they can get away with it. If the root had of been dugged up and burned in the beginning at jena then this wouldn't be going on but someone had to come and throw water on the fire and put it out because they thought it was just a simple joke now look that simple joke has left jena La and made it to NC will somebody please get the picture stop this nonsense before it gets started or dig up the root and burn it before it starts to grow and get out of control
Posted on September 26, 2007 10:22 PM
What is the root of it? Its not the noose is it?
Its racism.
Anyway, Andrews jnr, I dont think it does any good to express your thoughts using cuss words or abbreviations of cuss words. I do think that people are very happy to hear that the students there at Andrews are taking a business as usual stance. They need to focus on getting an education and letting the grown ups do the sort the rest out.
The Grimsley beating up sounds very bad and things like this are also going on in our society day after day as well as racism.
I still dont think the Politicians of High point and others (Deena Hayes) are adding any value to this discussion. I believe they are just trying to further their own careers.
Posted on September 27, 2007 12:07 AM
2sidestoeverystory,
You have some excellent comments and viewpoints. Thank you for sharing. Jena did have some underlying issues related to the hanging of the nooses in the tree. They were hung in direct relation to the young man sitting under the tree the day before.
This was not handled properly... but six people jumping on one person does not make a school yard fight either.
Why were the nooses hung at Andrews? It could have been for many reasons...This is different , because I don't think
any students from Andrews had anything to do with it. It should be dealt with at Andrews, but if the students are innocent
of this I hope it does not start stirring up feeling of hate toward each other that was not there in the first place.
Our school is one of the most diverse in the county and my son has a diverse group of people that come to our home and to our church. Jerry Rowe was correct. We are talk about diversity and love, but
Sunday morning church services is one of the most segregated times of my week. Until we start worshipping together in our churches and living together in our neighborhoods, there will always be misunderstandings and misinterpretations and ....fear.....
Yes...racism...it comes from fear of the unknown... it exists among whites/blacks, blacks/whites, blacks/hispanic, hispanic/blacks, white/hispanic, white/mideasterner, hispanic/white..........now come to church with me and lets get to know each other.....
Reality:
I asked my son what he thinks about when he saw the image of the noose on the flag pole.....his answer was Sadam Hussein!!
Posted on September 27, 2007 9:10 AM
im at home sick thats why my last comment was typed during school hours...&im sorry for my language...but im more than upset...what people dont understand is this...people are always looking at andrews as soon as something goes down...tragedy or prank...we always get blamed...it never fails...people are always talking about how unaccomplished andrews is but never speak on the accomplishments that we do have...my thing is something tragic has happend at our school...is has brought down the spirit of the school and when you walk in the school you can feel the tension...when the inccident happend students wanted to know what was going on the teachers and other administors were trying to keep it from us...adults are the first people to always tell us "if you dont know history then you are doomed to repeat it"....what happend last friaday is history...administration wouldnt even tell the students what happend...they pushed us away and told us it was nothing and not to worry about it...but those of us who have sense knew they were covering something up...not cool...when i saw the nooses reality set in...racism is still around...it was not a prank...they found ten nooses in all...whoever did this knew what they were doing and the places they put the nooses are places where they knew people would see them...they did it on purpose...i and many of my other fellow classmates spent most of first period crying...like i said...adults tell stories...we watch movies...we read books and newspaper aricles...but until you actually see it for yourself it doesnt have much of an effect on you...and it hit me pretty hard...
about the grimsley student...i really dont know what to say...whoever jumped him should be punished becuase thats just ridiculous...i dont know the reason for the studnet getting jumped but im pretty sure it was recovering in the hospital worthy...the students who did it should be ashamed in themselves...im really sorry about what happend to the grimsley student...he is in my prayers...
Posted on September 27, 2007 12:21 PM
Concerned Andrews Student.....
Keep standing up for yourself like you did in your last post!!
We do not know how incidents effect another unless we really listen. If students do not speak out and tell how they feel,
the parents will speak for them... and it may not be correct.
I called this a prank because the perpetrators are probably punks that got tired of writing on walls and thought it would be
funny to scare the h... out of a few Andrews students. Some people find amusement in this and unfortunately hurt people
when they do. I don't think Andrews students had anything to do with it, because the rope was painted red which would
point toward ALL of Andrews students.... I am at least hoping that this is the case....
Your generation has the ability to turn this around. I have seen that your generation has the insight and wisdom to help us all overcome judging others too harshly and unjustly.
Stay strong....you are a good reflection of the contents of the students that attend Andrews. If you still feel tension,
talk with your counselors, teachers and administrators.
Be the one that helps to open up appropriate discussions to help everyone
deal with this and to understand it.
Thank you for joining this strand and I hope you are feeling better soon.
Posted on September 27, 2007 3:39 PM
The noose could be a stupid prank by one person. So far nothing has come of this "threat". If you saw the low number of people that came to the meeting at Andrews, it was obvious that it was only a handful of parents who seemed concerned. Of those few, you saw some of the SAME faces on the news that are always crying racial tension.
While the hanging of a noose is certainly wrong and unacceptable in our community, so are GANGS. Gangs are real. There was an incident at SWH involving gang members and 12 cops cars the other day. THIS IS REAL. Lockdowns are REAL. We needed no lockdowns after seeing noose.
Let's deal with the real threats of safety in our schools. If you think students are afraid of a noose, think how afraid students are that have to go to school with gangbanger and be on lockdown.
Posted on September 28, 2007 8:13 AM
The noose could be a stupid prank by one person. So far nothing has come of this "threat". If you saw the low number of people that came to the meeting at Andrews, it was obvious that it was only a handful of parents who seemed concerned. Of those few, you saw some of the SAME faces on the news that are always crying racial tension.
While the hanging of a noose is certainly wrong and unacceptable in our community, so are GANGS. Gangs are real. There was an incident at SWH involving gang members and 12 cops cars the other day. THIS IS REAL. Lockdowns are REAL. We needed no lockdowns after seeing noose.
Let's deal with the real threats of safety in our schools. If you think students are afraid of a noose, think how afraid students are that have to go to school with gangbanger and be on lockdown.
Posted on September 28, 2007 8:13 AM
The noose could be a stupid prank by one person. So far nothing has come of this "threat". If you saw the low number of people that came to the meeting at Andrews, it was obvious that it was only a handful of parents who seemed concerned. Of those few, you saw some of the SAME faces on the news that are always crying racial tension.
While the hanging of a noose is certainly wrong and unacceptable in our community, so are GANGS. Gangs are real. There was an incident at SWH involving gang members and 12 cops cars the other day. THIS IS REAL. Lockdowns are REAL. We needed no lockdowns after seeing noose.
Let's deal with the real threats of safety in our schools. If you think students are afraid of a noose, think how afraid students are that have to go to school with gangbanger and be on lockdown.
Posted on September 28, 2007 8:14 AM
According to my source in Andrews the admin is thinking that one of the students probably did it as a joke.
Posted on September 28, 2007 11:32 PM
I've been curious about that possibility myself. What if one of the African American students at Andrews did this?
What will the reaction be from those who have demanded punishment? Will they feel the same way?
Posted on September 29, 2007 11:42 AM
i dont care who did it white or black...male or female...they should be punished with equally...
Posted on October 1, 2007 11:59 AM
i dont care who did it white or black...male or female...they should be punished with equally...
Posted on October 1, 2007 12:00 PM
Please citizens of Greensboro, who have posted in response to the junior at Andrews... if viewed by those who are not from the racist, 20 years behind the rest of the country South, you sound kind of ignorant. And the use of strong language with the restraint of abbreviations shows restraint within the context of emphasis and social context. Please get over your narrow definition of the human language. Please pray that the South catches up with the rest of the country. I am.
Posted on October 10, 2007 11:32 PM
And by the way, hanging a noose anywhere is no more a harmless, childish prank than shooting a gun into a crowd. You can claim after the fact that you were just kidding, but you will just reveal your ignorance. Get over your ignorant self. You are responsible in 2007 for educating yourself and your children to do different and better than that. In the absense of that teaching you are just responsible for your own ignorance. Nothing personal.
Posted on October 10, 2007 11:41 PM
I am Pat McCollough, a retired United States Marine Sergeant Major, also known around campus as, "Coach Pat." I returned to the education industry at my alma mater, Hawthorne Middle/High School; this was a dream come true. My dream turned into a nightmare when I became the victim of a hate crime.
On 1 Jun 2007, the last day of school, I fell prey to racial discrimination and a victim of hate. This happened on campus during the school day. My classroom was the only one spray painted with hate graffiti, K.K.K. and a Swastika symbol. My vehicle was also spray painted with similar graffiti.
One student has been identified as the suspect. It has never been explained or investigated why this student was out of class and allowed to just roam around campus without a pass or any supervision. This was final exam day.
The administration was very passive about the entire situation. They gave the impression that even though the incident was identified by the local police as a "criminal act" or maybe "just a prank," they had not taken into consideration how the entire event must have traumatized me as a human being. They stated that they must have misread me because I was a pillar of strength and so well composed though out the entire situation. Well, Isn't that how professionals are suppose to respond.
If this type of racial behavior continues and is condoned with little or no consequences for the real criminals, someone is going to get seriously hurt...remember Jena 6? I wonder if those three nooses hanging on the tree traumatized any of the students or were they provided with any type of professional psychological counseling after having been subjected to such hate. I requested professional psychological counseling and was denied at two different levels. I had to eventually seek professional counseling through other resources outside of the school district. The local community also turned a deaf hear to my cry. It is a known fact there is a current issue with safety and security within the Alachua County School District, Gainesville, Florida. From my research, there are many other schools throughout the Nation facing similar incidents.
I did not return to teaching this year.
Still Hurting,Pat McCollough
Posted on October 17, 2007 11:55 AM
I am Pat McCollough, a retired United States Marine Sergeant Major, also known around campus as, "Coach Pat." I returned to the education industry at my alma mater, Hawthorne Middle/High School; this was a dream come true. My dream turned into a nightmare when I became the victim of a hate crime.
On 1 Jun 2007, the last day of school, I fell prey to racial discrimination and a victim of hate. This happened on campus during the school day. My classroom was the only one spray painted with hate graffiti, K.K.K. and a Swastika symbol. My vehicle was also spray painted with similar graffiti.
One student has been identified as the suspect. It has never been explained or investigated why this student was out of class and allowed to just roam around campus without a pass or any supervision. This was final exam day.
The administration was very passive about the entire situation. They gave the impression that even though the incident was identified by the local police as a "criminal act" or maybe "just a prank," they had not taken into consideration how the entire event must have traumatized me as a human being. They stated that they must have misread me because I was a pillar of strength and so well composed though out the entire situation. Well, Isn't that how professionals are suppose to respond.
If this type of racial behavior continues and is condoned with little or no consequences for the real criminals, someone is going to get seriously hurt...remember Jena 6? I wonder if those three nooses hanging on the tree traumatized any of the students or were they provided with any type of professional psychological counseling after having been subjected to such hate. I requested professional psychological counseling and was denied at two different levels. I had to eventually seek professional counseling through other resources outside of the school district. The local community also turned a deaf hear to my cry. It is a known fact there is a current issue with safety and security within the Alachua County School District, Gainesville, Florida. From my research, there are many other schools throughout the Nation facing similar incidents.
I did not return to teaching this year.
Still Hurting,Pat McCollough
Posted on October 17, 2007 11:55 AM
I am Pat McCollough, a retired United States Marine Sergeant Major, also known around campus as, "Coach Pat." I returned to the education industry at my alma mater, Hawthorne Middle/High School; this was a dream come true. My dream turned into a nightmare when I became the victim of a hate crime.
On 1 Jun 2007, the last day of school, I fell prey to racial discrimination and a victim of hate. This happened on campus during the school day. My classroom was the only one spray painted with hate graffiti, K.K.K. and a Swastika symbol. My vehicle was also spray painted with similar graffiti.
One student has been identified as the suspect. It has never been explained or investigated why this student was out of class and allowed to just roam around campus without a pass or any supervision. This was final exam day.
The administration was very passive about the entire situation. They gave the impression that even though the incident was identified by the local police as a "criminal act" or maybe "just a prank," they had not taken into consideration how the entire event must have traumatized me as a human being. They stated that they must have misread me because I was a pillar of strength and so well composed though out the entire situation. Well, Isn't that how professionals are suppose to respond.
If this type of racial behavior continues and is condoned with little or no consequences for the real criminals, someone is going to get seriously hurt...remember Jena 6? I wonder if those three nooses hanging on the tree traumatized any of the students or were they provided with any type of professional psychological counseling after having been subjected to such hate. I requested professional psychological counseling and was denied at two different levels. I had to eventually seek professional counseling through other resources outside of the school district. The local community also turned a deaf hear to my cry. It is a known fact there is a current issue with safety and security within the Alachua County School District, Gainesville, Florida. From my research, there are many other schools throughout the Nation facing similar incidents.
I did not return to teaching this year.
Still Hurting,Pat McCollough
Posted on October 17, 2007 11:55 AM