News-Record.com

How about the impact of Terry Grier's departure will have on school climate, discipline, and school safety? Will these issues change when Grier is no longer in charge?

By the way, why does the board plan to continue paying Grier his full comp package of $372,000 per year until July 1, even though he will be spending a lot of time in San Diego and drawing a $1,000 per day salary from them during that time? What's to be gained by this in GCS? Why not take that $155,000 for the next 5 months and use it to find a new superintendent? Surely, we have someone on central office staff qualified to be an interim superintendent until July 1. What is the school board thinking? They should give him a swimsuit and tanning lotion and send him on his way, so he can give his full attention to San Diego and its education problems.

Could someone please ask the Board if it is true that GCS payed several of the High School Bands $ 1000.00 each to march in the MLK parades in High Point and Greensboro ?

Does GCS pay the Bands to play in the Christmas parades ?

in reference to The General, yes the school system did each band that participated in MLK activities a $1,000 stipend.
Don't think they get paid for the xmas parades. Maybe b/c MLK was a holiday????

By it's very politically correct nature, aren't those parades in December, well called Holiday Parades? If so the General is correct, these performances should be compensated for as well OR do not pay for the MLK day performances.

Just another example of how consistent our School Board is. No one can twist something into a pretzel any better. That is with the possible exception of Trudy Wade, who on a regular basis could out maneuver Alan Duncan whenever he and the good Dr. would come a beggin' to the County Commissioners.

Why is school safety, violence, gangs, consequences for violating school rules not on the agenda????

The agenda is prepared by staff. Some things they do not want to talk about. In those cases, they do not put them on the Agenda unless told to by the Chairman. The Chairman seldoms dictates Agenda items. Some things that need to be discussed are not ever discussed. Any Board Member should be able to put an item on the agenda. But they don't follow that practice in Guilford County. Also lacking, is oversight of various departments in the system. When was the last time they did an oversight on the Human Resources Dept. It was prior to Dr. Grier's arrival. The BOE makes little effort to look good and serve as a role model for efficent government. But change is on its way.

Why is "Funding for the Arts" a topic for discussion when GCS Staff has already admitted the arts education cuts were not due to funding issues? Is this a new issue? Are we going to have to fight for funding now as well as intructional time for art and music?

I have been to a couple of these sessions for part of the day... the problem is the staff reports, the BOE listens and asks very few questions and then they move on.. nothing is decided, the staff only brings the minimum info to the table and they always have to find more info, bring it back and then the public never knows what goes on. I have asked several times why this cannot be televised, but have never received a good answer. We have the capability and many of us would watch what we could find time for during the day instead of driving down to Eugene Street.

Cathy's correct. If anything the 07-08 instructional time cuts to music, art and PE actually increased costs because other subjects were added to the curriculum requiring additional instructors. (As Dr. Grier pointed out no art, music and PE teachers were fired.) Consequently the term funding is misleading.

If the BOE is looking at increased spending, then it is more appropriate to look at that as the expense associated with the introduction of newer programs.

I asked for the report on arts funding as it relates to the funding we provide to the schools for instruments and art supplies. As an arts supporter I want to know the extent of our funding for the above and in particular, what we do to insure that a child without means is able to play an instrument in middle and high school.

Great point Pierce! It bears repeating: "If the BOE is looking at increased spending, then it is more appropriate to look at that as the expense associated with the introduction of newer programs." I hope that the title "Funding of the Arts" was an unintentional misrepresentation by GCS Staff rather than a deliberate attempt to mislead the public into thinking that additional funding will be needed to restore the arts education program.

Sorry Darlene, I was COMPLETELY misunderstanding what that agenda item was about. I thought the agenda item was pertaining to the costs listed on the scheduling proposals discussed at the Dec 20 meeting. My apologies! And **thank you** for your support of arts education and the kind comments you made at the end of the last BOE meeting.

Ms. Garrett, thank you for coming out as an arts supporter. However, it seems futile at this point to be investigating funding for supplies when we are fighting cuts in instructional time. What good are paint brushes and musical instruments if there is no classroom time scheduled to use them?

Darlene:

I appreciate you asking for the report about middle and high school instruments. I see lots of students who would love to be in the band or orchestra, but they can't afford it. Thank you also for the positive comments you made at the end of the Jan. 8 meeting.

At the Dec. 20th meeting, at least 3 BOE members voiced support for the arts programs during their closing comments:

Darlene said wonderful things about the NW Middle School Orchestra & Chorus Concert.
Anita did the same regarding the Southern HS Band and Chorus concert.
Garth gave a glowing report of the Southwest HS Orchestra and Chorus concert.

There have been others, but those three came to mind, since the schools and/or directors were mentioned by name.

Mrs. Garrett, could you please look into the questions in my earlier post concerning the MLK parade, and the payments made to our High Schools bands???

If all this is true, it explains why we seem to run short on $$$$$ for legitimate education programs such as Music and the Arts.

As a part of the Task Force work, I visited many schools, and I have to say that there is a huge difference in what is offered in music and art classes. If you go to an affluent school there is an abundance of art supplies, and musical props. If you go to a school that is more impacted by poverty, there are NO art supplies, and no music props. I saw this on many occasions. It made me very angry. I watched one art class at a low income school and the kids sat at their desks for 20 minutes with NOTHING on the desk while the art teacher read them a story. Then in the last few minutes of class, the teacher gave them a piece of white paper and some crayons and told them to draw a picture of something in the story. The teacher sat at his desk and ignored the kids for the rest of the class. There were no art supplies in that room. Myself and another member of the Task Force looked around and there was nothing "artsy" in that room. There was nothing. I was so upset that I took her the next day to visit Summerfield to see a real Art teacher teaching serious art. Of course the art room there is packed full of supplies and that teacher uses every moment for work on a really amazing project.

Can anyone tell me why there is a difference in supplies and instruction at the affluent schools versus the low income schools?

Terrina:

You asked, "Can anyone tell me why there is a difference in supplies and instruction at the affluent schools versus the low income schools?"

Thank you SO much for voicing your concern for the impacted schools. I cannot speak for the quality/quantity of instructional supplies. I can, however, comment on the difference in instruction at some of the low income schools.

Many of them lost 50% of their art and music instructional time this year. They have art and music for only one semester each, or else they rotate, offering classes once every 2-3 weeks.

Of the 20-25 or so affluent schools (those with low free lunch numbers) only 2-3 lost instructional time in art and music.

Adding to the last post:

I was talking about the elementary schools only. I don't know about the middle or high schools.

But what would Deena say about this?

Grier and the Board are to blame.

Simple as that!

It also depends on the particular art teacher. I have seen art teachers in middle class elementary schools that spend 10 mins having the children be quiet or sometimes watch the same art video. At the elementary schools there isn't much time to ever finish a project. Just like any other subject, some teachers are better than others; some teachers are burned out and ready to retire.

I would think that at many of our impacted schools that receive extra Title 1 money that art supplies should be plentiful. Each school gets a pot of supply money... what are their leadership teams doing with that money. Every team I have worked on had a clear budget for each department. Could it be that the teachers themselves don't have high expectations or clear class plans to understand their supply needs? I am talking paint, paper, etc.. not the amount of time; but using the time effectively. I do understand at the more affluent schools there are more donations,but the schools themselves have money. The Title 1 funds are used for various things, and I don't know the legal parameters of us... some use them for field trips; often overnight... tutoring etc. Can they buy art/music/pe stuff with those funds? If they use Title 1 for expanding their students view of the world... would that not mean arts as well? I think that school based decisions are fine, but it sounds like we need better guidelines for those decisions.

Debora,

In addition to the Title I money, remember that GCS uses a weighted forumula to determine the money that each school gets. For example, I think a child on free and reduced lunch is weighted at 1.5 times, a student having English as a foreign language has another weighted factor.

Schools having large numbers of poor students receive much more money from GCS than those who don't.

Again, what is the purpose of this additional money if not to purchase supplies, etc.?

Terrina,

You asked, "Can anyone tell me why there is a difference in supplies and instruction at the affluent schools versus the low income schools?"

Think it's partly because the Summerfield PTA raised $135,667.90 in 2006?

http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2006/561/385/2006-561385312-029041a4-9.pdf

FYI, GCS implemented a weighted student funding formula which provides more funding to schools with high free and reduced meal and English as Second Language populations.

I know that Summerfield raises a ton of money, I was Pres there one year as was Terrina, but I will also say that we would love not to have to, but to have the programs that we run money is necessary. We also had almost 1100 students that year, so that makes a difference. Of course that was not all profit.

My point was that Title 1 schools receive alot more money per child that affluent schools, as per Anon. above. They have smaller class rooms, more teacher assistants, etc. I know that they need more resources, but where is that money going if there are no paints, crayons etc in the Art Room.

The one thing the poorer schools don't have is good experienced teachers in the quantity that they have in the more affluent schools. I would estimate that 70% of the teachers in the affluent are very good. In the poorer schools, it is more like 40 to 50 percent. Over a 13 year program that is a big difference. Many of the teachers in the poorer schools have little experience. They are either lateral transfer or fresh out of college. The assumption that a teacher coming out of college is ready to teach in a inter-city environment is dead-wrong. They need support and worshops over several weeks before they set foot into the classroom.

It would be nice if we could exchange the faculty between say Summerfield and Washington. I think Summerfield would hold their own and Washington would make a lot of improvement. Of course, this will never happen.

We have to have teachers in front of the class that does not let poverty get in the way of learning. It is hard work but it has been done at other locations and it could be done here.

A variant on Mission Possible in CMS?

Gorman: Time to reassign teachers

ANN DOSS HELMS
ahelms@charlotteobserver.com

With big incentives failing to entice experienced teachers into high-poverty schools, it's time to force teachers to work there, Charlotte-Mecklenburg Superintendent Peter Gorman said this morning.
...

http://www.charlotte.com/breaking_news/story/459082.html

Anon #2:

The issues that you mention (school safety, violence, etc.) are on the agenda. These are things that are being considered by the School Climate Task Force. It appears as the 5:30-6:00 p.m. agenda item.

As valuable as arts funding is, one has to wonder why it has been allocated 45 minutes of discussion and these safety issues only 30 minutes.

Title I money can only be spent on programs/supplies that directly impact reading and math scores. Therefore, it can not be spent on art supplies or music instruments. It can not even be spent on band or choral music, which is the "textbook" of a music class.

This retreat looks like an opportunity for various committees and GCS departments to update the school board on their progress. Does anyone know if that is an accurate characterization?

Basically the meeting is a day's worth of non-sense...a glorified board meeting where they talk for hours about nothing, decide on nothing and come to conclusions about nothing. I mean if your going to have a real "retreat" make it somewhere fancy and faraway. How drab is the board meeting room. There's always a stench in there too...hmmm

Terrina - "Can anyone tell me why there is a difference in supplies and instruction at the affluent schools versus the low income schools?"

jwg - "Think it's partly because the Summerfield PTA raised $135,667.90 in 2006?"

debora - "know that Summerfield raises a ton of money, I was Pres there one year as was Terrina"

Why is Terrina asking this question, if she already knows the answer? Was this post for effect, Terrina?

Anon:

Are you a lawyer or just an ignorant bully?

Terrina asked a valid question....and then you try to get technical and take piece's of peoples statements and take them totally out of context to try and bully some irrational point?

This isn't a courtroom where you can take someone's statement out of context and use it against them.

It is obvious that you have some personal bone to pick with Terrina, and somehow you believe by misrepresenting what was said that you make a point.

Well, you made a point alright, but it has nothing to do with Terrina.

Quit being a bully. What value did your comments bring to this discussion? Your only purpose was to attempt to degrade someone who works hard for our children and community. It didn't work.

Anon:

Are you a lawyer or just an ignorant bully?

Terrina asked a valid question....and then you try to get technical and take piece's of peoples statements and take them totally out of context to try and bully some irrational point?

This isn't a courtroom where you can take someone's statement out of context and use it against them.

It is obvious that you have some personal bone to pick with Terrina, and somehow you believe by misrepresenting what was said that you make a point.

Well, you made a point alright, but it has nothing to do with Terrina.

Quit being a bully. What value did your comments bring to this discussion? Your only purpose was to attempt to degrade someone who works hard for our children and community. It didn't work.

I'm sorry my posts yesterday were a bit contentious. I was letting my frustration over the cuts in my child's art/music classes get the best of me. I place tremendous importance on the arts because I believe I owe much of my personal and academic success to my extensive participation in music as a youth. I want my child to have more, not less opportunity to succeed than I did. Onslow County, where I grew up, is a much poorer county and spends much less per student than Guilford County yet they manage to employ a full-time Cultural Arts Coordinator and every elementary student in the county attends both art and music classes every a week.

Just yesterday my son got off the bus absolutely beaming and holding something in his hand. I couldn't wait to see what it was because normally he is in such a sour mood when he comes home from school. It was his art project. There is nothing that can improve a child's outlook at school or in life like the arts!

Ms. Picarello, it is blatantly unfair that low-income schools are being short-changed on art supplies. I wonder if the more affluent PTA's like Summerfield and others wouldn't mind sharing the wealth a little. If each PTA could spare just $1000 out of their budget to help lower income schools, it might do a lot of good. Or what about an art supply drive like we do with canned food?

If funds really aren't the problem and it's just lack of drive or poor supply management on the art teacher's part, then that shows why Guilford County really needs a Cultural Arts Coordinator. An Arts Coordinator would manage resources and hold personnel accountable.

Its Grier that is to blame because he didnt have the drive to really dig into those issues.These issues are the bread and butter issues that nobody has an explanation for. He preferred to "inovate". That means come up with flashy new progams and then throw them out there like he was really doing something. One after another. He then just plainly lists them on his resume and thats that. No measurements exist to see what is or is not a sucess. No accountability. No follow up from the school baord because they are lost in the maze of change.

8 years on and Dudley and Smith are still in the same mess. Grauating only 60% of their students. There has been no change. No improvement! That is thousands of kids, his kids, in the trash can of life!

His solution to close the acheivement gap has been to bus kids around and then mix up AL kids with not so fortunate kids. The end result is that scores have gone down. He has no "real" solution. Middle school has become a non event in our chldrens education.

Of his real acheivements, even I could get the brightest of the brightest and put them into the same place of study and create a great program like the early college.

We paid someone big bucks to solve the tricky issues like Smith and Dudley. What did we get....NADA!

This community failed to see that! The news and record failed to see that. San Diego has (thank goodness) failed to see that.

jwg:

You reference an article by Ann Doss Helms (Charlotte Observer) which talks about how Superintendent Gorman (CMS) wants to force experienced teachers to teach in high poverty schools. This idea backfired in CMS and it will backfire in GCS if tried. Many of the experienced teachers who were faced with forced transfers quit their jobs and crossed county lines to work in Union and Iredell Co.

I totally understand why they would do this. After spending the first 9 years of my teaching career in the "ghetto", I was finally able to transfer to a school where parents were supportive, spoke English, owned homes, paid taxes, and had jobs. More importantly, I no longer have to stop my class every five seconds and wait for someone to shut their mouth so I can actually teach! How nice.

Anon,

My understanding is that this is a current statement by Gorman (given the date on the byline 1/23/08) and info in this accompanying article:

http://www.charlotte.com/408/story/458479.html
...
The 2008 equity report, designed to gauge whether students get a fair shot at a good education, comes three days before a retreat where the board will reopen the question of forcing top teachers and principals to move to struggling schools.

The board authorized Gorman to do so in 2006-07 as a last resort. He moved some administrators, but said forced teacher transfers weren't yet needed.

But Tuesday's report brought signs that current efforts aren't working.
...

I don't know the history of CMS but heard this on NPR & thought it might relate to Mission Possible here. I am, by no means advocating this, just passing along what I thought might be relevant information.

Thanks!

FYI, our district received the Crystal Star Award by the National Dropout Prevention Network in 2005. Its annual dropout rate decreased from 5.97 in 2000 to 2.99 percent in 2007. In addition, the percentage of students graduating from high school within four years of entering the ninth grade increased from 66 (2002 data) to 79.9 percent, the highest of the five large school districts in the state.

Thank you, ResponsetoAnon. I don't understand why anyone would want to publicly attack Terrina. Terrina is all about children. I hope she gets some kind of community award for her work.

JWG, what a fascinating note about the Summerfield PTA. Gosh, I would love to see the break down of what other PTAs are earning!

You probably will never see a single report of all PTAs fundraising budgets in Guilford County. It would take some work to pull that report together. PTA budgets generally are only available to the members of that school's PTA.

Plus, from time to time, some schools don't have a PTA due to lack of parent involvement. That is truly sad for those schools.

Hey, isn't Terry Grier on the Board of Directors of the National Dropout Prevention Network?

PTA budgets are public as are all non-profits. Each is chartered to help their school and the primary focus is to advocate for good public education.

Each PTA has to follow federal laws and cannot donate money to other PTA's. The budget for each has to be voted on my their members, and has to be followed just like any non-profit. Many schools (Summerfield included) have 'adopted' schools and helped with supplies etc. While my son was at Summerfield we held book drive, coat/mitten drive and school supply drive and donated all to Hunter elementary. Two pick-up trucks worth of books in just one year. I don't think that partnership is continuing currently, but it was quite rewarding. Parents made those donations out of their pockets.

Many if not most parents in our community realize how lucky we are in our lives and do alot to help others... that doesn't mean that our children don't deserve a quality education provided by our tax dollars.

As non-profits PTAs must give you a copy of their 990 form upon request. That's not quite the same as the budget. That would give you the PTAs income though. It just would take some time.

That would make an interesting newspaper article.

I'm not an accountant but I believe that any nonprofit with income over $25,000 per year is required to file a 990.

Guidestar (www.guidestar.org) collects and makes this information available to the public.

Many PTA/Band/Athletic/Booster 509a(?) organizations do not meet this minimum and are not required to file the form.

PTAs can also file a 990-EZ if the income is from $25,000 to $100,000. Over a $100,000 requires a 990. I know...boring. Back to the point though, it would be interesting to know what all the PTAs pull in.

Actually one non-profit can donate to another non-profit. I don't think that is a federal rule. PTAs also donate to other PTAs and to non-profits in other states.

PTA's as a rule are not suppose to donate to other PTA's unless it is in their approved budget. Occasionally a gift is made to a new start up PTA, but there should be a line item for donations... if done correctly. Minutes and budgets should be available upon request by any PTA member or for that matter anyone that wants to see it.

My comment about schools that are Title I not having funds for art.. I meant if they used the Title 1 money for math/english/tutoring etc, they should have money in there standard supply funds for art, since all the extra money goes toward other subjects.

Transparency in a non-profit is always best. Sometimes we don't always get that though and a formal request may be necessary. Just to make the point clear, one non-profit can donate money to another non-profit. Look at the federal law. Also, non-profit budgets are not written in stone and thankfully so. Budgets can be changed at any time with the appropriate notification and vote by the membership. Summerfield as a non-profit may not want to donate money and that is fine too. It's their money.

Debora, thanks for all the great info. The partnership that existed once between Hunter and Summerfield is inspiring. I will look in to something like that for our PTA, but we have many needy families within our own school whose needs have to be met first.

You are so right that whether to donate should be completely decided by the individual PTA's and not coerced in any way. However, if low-income schools make their needs known, I'm sure help will be forthcoming because of the wonderful spirit of giving in this community. Those schools receiving donations will have to be good stewards and show they can manage resources well.

This is from the Treasurer's handbook on NCPTA.org

PTAs may not raise money for individuals,
nor may they donate money to other groups
or organizations (i.e., Student Clubs, The
Red Cross, etc.).

Requests for Donations
PTAs may not raise money for individuals or other
organizations. PTAs may not donate funds to any
other individual or organization. If, however, the
PTA is involved in a cooperative program or project,
the PTA may bear its share of the costs. Before
joining a coalition, contact the State PTA Office to
verify the group’s purpose.
On occasion, grade levels will be added to or
removed from a school facility. In the case where part
of the school’s population is moved to a new facility,
the parents of those children who are relocated will
have the opportunity to start a new PTA at the new
facility. While not required, it is considered a
beneficial act for the existing PTA membership to
pass a vote giving the new PTA some start-up funds.
Please remember that the new group must be a valid
PTA/PTSA affiliated with the State and National
PTA before any funds may be given.

So sorry! Anonymous, not Debora said, "Summerfield as a non-profit may not want to donate money and that is fine too." It was Anonymous I was agreeing with when I said "whether to donate should be completely decided by the individual PTA's." I shouldn't have been trying to communicate this early on a Saturday morning!

Debora, do you think that extends to donations of goods as well? When the PTA sponsors a food, toy or a winter coat drive that's okay, right? Then couldn't we do the same for supplies for low-income schools?

Again, thanks for the info.!

Yes, you can do drives for other schools, but it should be advertised as such. Those that give to a certain PTA or raise funds for the PTA are doing so for the particular PTA and its students. Many parents would not be happy if the money was given to other schools when almost every school has needs of its own. However, if a drive for Hunter, as an example is advertised as such then the stakeholders realize that their donations(not money) is being used for that specific school.

I think it would be great for PTA's to 'sister' with a needy PTA. The best benefit would be to get parents involved with the 'needier' school and help tutor, hold meetings and trainings for the stakeholders of the 'needier' school. It goes back to the old addage.. teach a person to fish, they will have food for a lifetime. Donations such as books, supplies are great, but many schools need to know how to write grants, ask for community help, partner with local businesses. If we could teach those skills all would benefit for more than a short time span.

You should check with National PTA. Plenty of PTAs in other states give to other other non-profits. I'm not so sure that book is accurate.

Your point is well taken thought that PTAs need more than money.

Great point Debora. Mentoring could be the best way strong PTA's could help needy ones, but many of the ways our PTA makes money wouldn't work for low-income families. For instance, I was amazed at how much money linking the Harris Teeter VIC cards and Target charge cards made for our school, but lower income familes can't spend as much and make as much money for their schools. The same goes for fundraisers that sell items to raise money. They are a doubly hard for low-income familes because they can't afford to buy much from their children and many times their neighborhoods aren't safe for children to go selling items. There have to be other ways for low-income schools to fundraise and I'm sure more creative PTA Moms and Dads than I am can think of them.

You are right Cathy. I also have seen dinner fundraisers work well when most, if not all, of the food items needed to put on the dinner are donated by parents. In lower income schools, this is not possible and all the costs of buying the food for preparation are then deducted from the gross profit of the dinner.

Also, I have seen some PTA's simply ask for cash donations in lieu of fundraisers. Works well for schools with mostly middle class families but not so with low income ones.

Until you work with a lower income school, you do not realize the hardships some of these school's PTAs face regardless of whether they get additional money from Title I or not.

Most schools that I know about never made very much when asked for donations without 'receiving' something for their money, even if overpriced wrapping paper.

Again, mentoring is the way to go. Most Harris Teeters, Food Lions and other supermarkets will make a $25 gift card available. You do that a few times and you can buy alot of hotdogs... Sams makes donations etc. You have to think outside the box, however it is alot of hard work, driving around, spending lots of time etc.

At Elementary schools, skate night is big, and although not free, its a fair price and can be fun for the family. Pancake Breakfast isn't expensive to put on. The best ideas are those that involve the entire family.