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Amanda, is that art and music every week or every 6 day rotation?

Every six-day rotation.

That amounts to a reduction in arts instruction at about 2/3 of all the elementary schools. Hardly an improvement.

Any discussion about restoring the lost instructional time at the middle school level?

Does anyone think that this Jeff Belton comment was in reference to what the Rhino reported this week? It was evident to me that Mr Hebert had told the Rhino about some closed discussion about a raise for Dr Grier.

Well when I read that I thought thank goodness that we have Mr Hebert on the board. Why could that not be made public? Their power has gone to their heads. Who do they think they are? This school board has schemed behind closed doors for too long now.

I think that information like this out in the public is extremely healthy and I am very pleased to know it?
Times are a changing and I, for one, want more.

If thats true I love it.

Guilford County wants more, more, more of that kind of attitude!

Go Garth!

Why does Jeff Belton want this information hidden away?

If they did discuss this and Dr Grier was informed why can the public be not informed?

Amanda:

"$30,000 a year to a high school and a middle school" for musical instruments.

This says to "a high school" - not "each high school", and "a middle school" - not "each middle school".

In the past, I would have assumed that it meant "each" school, but you have to watch what you assume now. Did Dr. Grier say "a" or "each"? There's a big difference.

A good muscal instrument can cost 1,500.

I guess its 30k each HS.

The GCS Arts Report from Dec 20 says that there are currently 196 elementary specialist teachers in the county.

This weekend's proposal calls for 215 for next year, an increase of 19 teachers.

To implement foreign language in the 19 "IB feeder schools", it took about 25 foreign language teachers.

How are they going to spread the foreign language to the other 45 or so elementary schools next year if they are only adding 19 new positions?

It doesn't say 30K for EACH high school. It says 30K for A high school.

Which high school is getting the money? Which middle school?

Hello,


What a great post. Thank you for your hard effort. It's a brilliant work.

Amanda, "equal amounts of art, music and gym, and two classes of language per six-day rotation" does not seem to be an improvement for my child. It still puts art and music on a lower plain than foreign language. I would like to see them all equal with the same weekly instructional time. It would save the county money too by not having to hire as many new foreign language teachers. The art and music teachers are already in place.

I am thrilled to have my child taking Spanish this year! I just don't want to see it take precedence over his art and music classes or his PE classes for that matter.

A 6-day plan sounds like it would be confusing for parents and students to follow. How about it teachers and principals? Is a 6-day plan more confusing?

A BOE member that reveals something that took place in secret session that should have been discussed in open session does everyone a favor by revealing the info. Whether to throw Dr. Grier's contract in the trash can and give him a new one, should be discussed in open session. Setting the pay should be done in secret session. This BOE and Jill Wilson has consistently abused the secret session exemption. They go in there are talk about everything under the sun (like performance at certain schools) when the discussion should be done in open session. Jeff Belton wants business as usual. He does not want the public to hold him accountable for what he says. Three fourths of what is discussed in secret session could be discussed in open session if the Administration and Chairman wanted to address the issues with a preference for open session. Garth did nothing wrong. I applaud him for doing what is right.

Joe, I agree with you 100%.

Here is how it was reported in the Rhino:

"Board member Garth Hebert said the board, in its Dec. 10 closed session to consider Grier's possible exit for San Diego, took a "straw poll" and agreed to offer him a contract extension and an increase in compensation in effort to get him to stay. "This was conveyed to Terry by the board, and Terry still chose to leave," Hebert said.

No other board members would confirm Hebert's statement. Sharpe said it did not happen. "I have no recall of this board offering him one penny more to stay here," she said. Board member Walter Childs said he remembered no such discussion, and Routh said she does not, as a matter of policy, discuss personnel actions taken in closed session.

Board member Amos Quick said he does not remember any such discussion clearly, and that, in any case, no formal offer was conveyed to Grier. "If it was a straw poll, that's all it was," he said".

I think the board has broken the rules. I really dont trust them and thats it now. They get no bond vote from me!

I had some hopes for Jeff Belton. He seemed to be a thinker. Now we know he is a behind closed door schemer just like the person before him.

My children's school has done a 6 day rotation, and, yes, it is confusing. Their teachers sometimes forget where they need to go because it's never on the same day of the week. If they get sick suddenly, the sub often ends up taking them to the wrong place because the 6 day rotation is tricky. The children can't remember which days to bring library books, instruments, tennis shoes, etc. If you have more than one child, you have that much more trouble, unless they both have PE on the same rotational day.

The way it looks to me is this: you don't need as many specialists if the kids are on a 6-day rotation, which translates to saving money for the school system. It may not seem like a lot, but when you're talking about 1600 or so elementary classrooms county wide, it's a lot of money to be saved.

which school?

I agree with Cathy. It is commendable that the staff wish to add foreign language to every elementary school in the county. The cost of adding language estimated at 1.39 million seems a little low. Are they planning to cut positions in other areas to hire more language teachers?

Grier's proposal sacrifices class time in music, art and PE in order to insert a double load of foreign language. The former subjects would lose 18 classes per year total, 6 classes each. Any teacher will tell you what a huge hole that gap leaves in their attempt to meet the objectives of the North Carolina Standard Course of Study.

Fortunately Kris Cooke is one Board Member who seems to categorically reject adding language at the expense of instructional time in art and music. "I certainly don't want one to be sacrificed for the other," she said at the retreat. To her great credit, Ms. Cooke made similar statements about the cuts made this year and has consistently reiterated these statements when the issue came up in Board Meetings. Thank you Ms. Cooke!!

Let us hope the remainder of the Board follows Ms. Cooke's lead and rejects these new cuts to music and art instructional time.

The staff has laudable goals, reinstatement of the cultural arts coordinator position, finally funding our bands at a reasonable level and bringing foreign language to our elementary schools.

However it is truly stunning that the staff is now recommending a new round of reductions in art and music instructional time for 08-09 in the face of the public outcry against the reductions made just this year. It's time to wake up and face the music (and art)!

Is Jeff Beltons comment an admission that this straw poll was actually taken? Several school board members had said that it did not happen?

Can we demand some sort of enquiry into this?

We absolutely need honesty above all else from our public elected officials!

How many back door discussions are being taken about this arts situation?

Terry Grier, April 2006 -

"Grier withdrew from the Charlotte superintendent search and opted to stay at his current job, citing “a deep commitment and responsibility to the children, citizens, and leadership of Guilford County Schools to continue to improve upon our good work,” according to his commentary published in the News & Record in Greensboro.

Terry Grier, January 2008 -

"It wasn't an easy decision," he said, "but at this particular point in my career, I think it was the right decision." "We are also excited about the future and look forward to the challenges and opportunities that are ahead of us in San Diego."

So, is that deep commitment and responsibility to the children, citizens, and leadership of Guilford County now history due to challenges and opportunities ahead in San Diego? Sound like the words of an opportunist? Why would Terry Grier take a job in San Diego, where the cost of living is tremendously higher, making less money than he did in Guilford County? His salary is slightly higher, but his total comp, based upon what has been reported, is about $100,000 per year less. That would be paying for opportunity.

This is the real reason why Grier is leaving:
The game is up. he and he News and Record cannot keep saying that we are getting better and better. The Standards are being increased to be closer to the rest of the Country. Its the optimum time for him to leave. The resume just goes down from here!

"This school year it will be especially hard for schools to met AYP, or "adequate yearly progress, " a No Child Left Behind Act measure of student achievement, says district numbers guru Gongshu Zhang. It's not that students aren't improving, he says. It's that the state has increased the standards so much this year, they will be tough to meet".

Jeff Beltons message is clear.

Lets keep the public out of "their" business.

We know better then they do!

Amanda,

It would be interesting to know how many days vacation Grier has left. Can you ask that?

My question is it fact against any school board policy to mention publicly anything discussed in closed session.

Joe, Reference your comments quoted below:

This BOE and Jill Wilson has consistently abused the secret session exemption. They go in there are talk about everything under the sun (like performance at certain schools) when the discussion should be done in open session. Jeff Belton wants business as usual. He does not want the public to hold him accountable for what he says.

How do you know this?

I will be glad to answer. After meeting in secret session, the Board Members sometimes decide to make public information that was obviously discussed in secret session because it was never discussed in open session. You have two choices when you take an item into secret session.

(1) Mix up the secret stuff with non-secret stuff and declare the whole thing as requiring a secret session or
(2) Divided the discussion into two parts, that that can be handled in open session and what must be handled in secret session.

Dr. Grier, who has worked with many Boards, told me that this Board is more secret than any Board he has served. In many districts, the vast majority of the Supt. evaluation is done in open session.

If you have any doubt about this, talk to people in other districts. Look at the time spent in secret session here as opposed to other Districts.

Superintendent discussions should NOT be held in "Secret Session"--I love your new name for the "Closed Sessions", Joe! This position should be under close public scrutiny! This position is steering the education of our children and discussions about "getting him outta here", hiring a new one, increases in salary, etc..should be done in front of the citizens in which the board serves!!! I cannot think of ONE instance in which the board should go hide out in private and make decisions! The fact that they feel the need to have secret meetings makes me even MORE suspicious of them! What ever happened to the teacher from SWHigh that was arrested for possibly doing things illegal on-line?--See! ..we don't know!! So here we are again with issues that should be OPEN to the public! If my kids are going to stay in this system they better start communicating with me! I've had it with the secrecy! It's time to just be open and honest. We have ONLY one board member who seems to want to solve issues this way--it's time to find TEN more!!!!!!

On the band issue:

That was 30K a year for one high school and one middle school, and the money would rotate from year to year. At least, that is they why I understood it.

On the vacation days:

Grier has 15 in his contract annually.

Amanda,

How many of those 120 vacation days (8X15) has Terry Grier actually used in the last eight years? Conversely, how many does he have banked (does school policy allow accumulation of vacation days), and can he get paid for them when he actually leaves?

While the discussion is on the money for art/music/PE instruction, could someone answer why it was that 20 of the elementary schools and 2 high schools had NO instructional dollars to purchase library books last year? Or why, of the remaining 47 elementary school media centers that did have moeny to purchase books, 45% of that money came from outside sources, i.e., money the PTSA or the librarians raised themselves? Or why, because of budget constraints the average age of non-fiction books in our high schools is 1985? Or why the average age of books in media centers across GCS was 1993 last year? The essential dismantling of the Media Services department and the trickle-down disdain for libraries and librarians under this administration should also be addressed by the BOE and during the selection of any new super.

In regards to closed session, BOE members in other school districts have been and are currently being sued as individuals for revealing information from closed session. While I signed up for the criticism that comes with this position, I did not sign up to be personally sued.
I can not stop anyone from revealing what ever they want to from closed session, even if it is factually incorrect. Or pure speculation by a BOE member who was absent at the time of the session.
My recollection thus far is that we have only discussed personnel and legal/real estate issues in closed session. I am sure everyone(taxpayers) understands that if a property owner knows the school system is interested in their property they are going to raise the price. Personnel issues concerning state employees are protected by state law, it is that simple. I can not stop, nor will I try to prevent others from saying what they will, even it is factually incorrect, or pure speculation by an absent BOE member. For me it is a principle, one I put my hand on the Bible and stood before the public with my family at my side and swore an oath to. I do not vote to go into closed session to hide information from the public, but rather because that is my understanding of the law. If I misinterpret the law then please correct my interpretetion.
I have not given anyone true cause to believe that I am secretly crafting some golden parachute package to further enrich Terry Grier. I think he is more than well compensated.
I did not support getting in a bidding war with another district, and simply thank him for his service and say goodbye. I fully expected that when he received the NC Superintendent of the year Award that he would receive offers for better paying jobs. That is what happened, and the Grier era is over. I, and the district have nothing to gain by throwing the taxpayers money at Terry Grier. I most certainly will not vote to hire any new superintendent until everyone with input on the subject has had an opportunity to speak their opinion.
As for foreign language time, we understand that language peaks in childhood. So that elementary and middle school is the optimal age for learning a foreign language. However, I do not yet see how to give art,music, and foreign language equal time in our current schedule. This community has stated clearly and repeatedly that it favors art and music over foreign language. That is the position I plan to support. The staff not presenting alternate proposals at least one of which reflected a full return of time for art and music surprised me as well. I have asked staff to present a schedule proposal reflecting a full return of art and music time as well for Board consideration.
For those who wish to think the worst of me without attempting to communicate with me about their position on an issue, I honor their right to their opinion.

Yours,
Jeff

Jeff,

THEN DON'T HAVE "SECRET SESSIONS"!! You can't get sued if they don't exist! It's so simple!--Talk open and honestly IN FRONT OF THE PUBLIC YOU SERVE and then there's no debating what really happened!

Why is it that private schools can find time for weekly PE, art, computer AND a foreign language? Their instructional day is no longer than the public school instructional day? Is it magic? Actually, some get PE twice each week! Man, that's some real hocus pocus!

Jeff,

You said, "I think he is more than well compensated." with respect to Terry Grier.

Didn't you vote a raise for him?

If he is "more than well compensated" then you wasted tax payer money.

Quite simply - the superintendent should be compensated as appropriate to the work he's performing - never more than well compensated.

Maybe I'll put my name in the hat for the next super!

FYI: Since 2000, beginning teachers' salaries rose from number 11 to number one in the state.

Jeff, what you need to do, is make an independent judgement on what should be discussed in secret session. You should not follow what Jil Wilson says or what your fellow members say. Other School Boards in NC and outside of NC are advised by legal counsel and seem to find room for more public discussions. For instance, whether to sue a contractor for sub-standard work. It should be based on facts and circumstances. You don't have to be in secret session to come to a conclusion that a contractor did or did not meet specs. Somehow the Eastern Fire settlement turned into a legal issue when it was no such thing. We had a loss and were we paid for the loss IAW with the insurance policy. Did the BOE ever approve the settlement or did you turn it over to Jill for settlement. It is wise and understandable to seek legal counsel, that does not mean that you have to follow legal counsel's ideas. This especially true when she is pontificating on issues like autisim facilities. When is the last time the BOE has done a review on the costs for legal counsel. Sometimes Jill is right and sometimes she is wrong. She is never God.

Jeff said:

"The staff not presenting alternate proposals at least one of which reflected a full return of time for art and music surprised me as well. I have asked staff to present a schedule proposal reflecting a full return of art and music time as well for Board consideration."

Thank you for your STRONG support of Art and Music in our elementary schools! This is at least the second time you've put your opinion on this matter in print.

The proposal presented at the BOE retreat (215 total specialists for art/music/pe/foreign language) will most certainly mean a reduction in class time in ALL of these specialist classes (not just art/music) in ALL elementary schools next year (not just the "IB feeder schools".)

215 is just not enough positions to fully restore art/music, keep PE as it is now, AND add foreign language twice a week to the 45 non-IB schools.

Joe,

I agree with you 100%. As a taxpayer, shouldn't I be entitled to know how much we pay Jill, our paid-by-the-hour attorney? I understand that she's not the only legal expense that we. I understand that we employ other attorneys when we sue contractors, and even when we apply for federal magnet grants.

Amanda - can you find out our total legal expenses for the year 2007?

Also, Joe, on the autism comments. I found it terribly disappointing for Jill to pontificate on that issue as well. I was ready to request a copy of her medical license - she seemed to have all the answers regarding autism. Since when is she expert in that field?

Joe, you're making sense. And as for the commenter above, I too have been wondering how much we're paying in legal expenses? A school system as large as ours...we can't put someone on retainer instead of paying them by the hour?

It's all adding up, folks.

http://erikhuey.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/belton-denies-secret-deals/

Re Jill's costs. Lets ask Garth. He will find out and tell us. The other board members want to keep that sort of thing secret.

Garth Hebert, a new face for the Guilford County School board.

Quote:
"In regards to closed session, BOE members in other school districts have been and are currently being sued as individuals for revealing information from closed session".

Mr Belton, you say that what was reported was "factually incorrect" I would bet large sums that something along those lines was discussed. In saying that I just dont see how the info that was leaked would result in anyone being sued. I do think that this should have been discussed in the public and the public needed to be informed that it did happen!

This board hides behind lawyer scare tactics to justify hidden agendas. Welcome to their club Mr Belton!

Jeff,
I have watched the BOE for years, as you know. The staff only makes one suggest for most things, and that is the one they want done. I have seen this over and over to the detriment of the system and the frustration of the board. When you ask for a 2nd or 3rd suggestion... they will 'bring it back to you' often months later, and then surprisingly, the BOE never has time to discuss those fully, and a decision has to be made... quick... quick... and 90% of the time they go with the first suggestion. I have often felt that the vote goes the way staff wants due to lack of information and timing of that information.

Jeff, Any chance that you might tell us what hapenned in the closed session last Saturday?

Garth,

You are a refreshing addition to the Bored of Education.

Thank you for always trying to do the right thing! We appreciate your candor and honesty.

With you and Darlene on the board, hopefully things will begin to improve.

Jeff Belton is a straight shooter. In fact both he and Garth Hebert are dedicated public servants who are responsive to the community at large. Their frequent postings to local blogs should be ample evidence of this fact.

They have a disagreement here, but to suggest that one or the other is trying to put something by the public is to seriously underestimate these fine individuals.

Jeff Belton - straight shooter?

Huh?

Can you give some examples?

I dont agree with some of Garths comments or actions but I do like him shaking things up. I agree that Mr Belton is a nice man but I havent seen any impact of his actions on this school board since he arrived. Perhaps he is too nice/ shy or whatever. What we need is change!

We need people to shake things up!

Garth, he can!

Dont just pick on Mr Belton. I havent seen the school board do anything for along time. They rarely discuss education issues.

We desperately need a school board that takes the lead. We NEED leadership. Hopefully with Terry Grier leaving they can turn over a new leaf.

If this speculation is true and Mr Herbert did talk to the press when he should have not then I think that Jeff Belton is setting an equally bad example.
This should not have been mentioned in public at the retreat. It is really a subject for behind closed doors. Public criticism of fellow members is normally behaviour that we see from the County commisioners.

SAD. I thought this school board knew better.

Garth is to congratulated.

The question of whether or not the BOE should reexamine Dr. Grier's contract should have been done in open session. The advocates for giving Dr. Grier more money did not want to do that. They were afraid they would look silly which is not a good or legal reason to go into secret session.

Joe,

I agree with you - Garth is to be congratulated. He was looking out for the public's interest. He simply provided information that should have been discussed during open session.

On the other hand, Jeff Belton is directly criticizing a fellow board member. He's wrong and that's not only unprofessional, it's inconsiderate and he gives the impression he doesn't want the public to know anything.

Jeff Belton is interested in Grimsley only.

Those of you who are calling for change listen again to what Mr. Belton said:

"This community has stated clearly and repeatedly that it favors art and music over foreign language. That is the position I plan to support."

In this statement Mr. Belton is clearly breaking away from the GCS Staff recommendations and hearing the public outcry for full restoration of arts education. THANK YOU MR. BELTON! We need more Board Members who listen to their constituents, reject bad planning from the Superintendent's Office and then require the staff to come up with viable alternatives. I would only like to remind Mr. Belton that I merely favor art and music EQUAL to foreign language instructional time, not over and above. A 5-day Schedule with elementary students receiving 1 class each of art, music and Spanish every week is a more balanced curriculum.

Anon: You must not have been watching the BOE's meetings. It is clear that Jeff Belton cares about students throughout the whole county, not just Grimsley. I remember not long ago that Mr. Belton gave an *impassioned* defense of Smith High School and its students after it had been called a "drop out factory." At times his voice was cracking with emotion as he lambasted the magazine's insensitivity to the students and the accomplishments so many had made.

Similarly he took the lead on arguing for the installation of air conditioning in the Smith gymnasium.

As you can see from his comments above, he is also responsive to the community. As he says, "This community has stated clearly and repeatedly that it favors art and music. . . That is the position I plan to support."

Those are just a few examples. Garth Hebert and Jeff Belton may have a difference of opinion regarding the protocol surrounding closed sessions, but they seem to work well together. More importantly, both seem to have the best interests of our children at heart and both are willing to stand up to the administration when they feel that is warranted.

Jeff is a graduate of Smith High School.

Joe,

Yes - correct. So Belton stands up for his alma mater and for his children's school (Smith and Grimsley).

Who stands up for Northeast? Southeast?

But more importantly, impassioned speeches are one thing - improving education is another. I don't see Belton leading the charge to improve the educational experience for children at Smith.

Yall keep moving teh goal posts. you say the dude doesn't care about what people have to say and someone shows he does. You say he dosent care about anything but grimsly. Someone says he cares about smith and you say he went there like somehow that doesnt count. imho you need to do a little looking before you flame somebody

What do we call a school where only 60% of the kids that start 9th grade end up in the 12th?

Sorry , thats about 50%.

Not very efficient dropout factory but getting there.

Thats a great comparison there. Belton, the nice guy would say that Smith is a good school. Garth would be more likely to say that its a drop out factory. Thats a straight shooter.

With a 50% drop out percentage what is the right thing to say? Whats the right thing for the kids that have dropped out?

Garth is not policically correct but we need that. We need a good dose of the truth. How else can we change things?

We dont need another warm body on the school board to toe the line.

We need CHANGE! Thats where Garth comes in!

I think you guys have to agree that Belton and Garth are both good people. Both have different personalities and both are much better than their predecessors.

I think they are a good mix and I hope they can work together.

Jmoodie:

I agree. Now, maybe we can get our focus back on the issues from the original posting:

six-day rotation for all elementary schools
funding for band/orchestra instruments
achievement
school climate task force
new superintendent

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If somebody can supplement my list please publish here your research or bookmark

PS I am sorry if my message out of forum topic or it`s not interesting to community.