News-Record.com

I seem to recall that there were some unanswered questions in a prior thread: "Here's some AP data for you" (http://blog.news-record.com/staff/chalkboard/archives/2007/06/heres_some_ap_d.shtml).

Are AP teachers being given enough training to teach these types of classes so that their students can learn enough to pass the test and receive credit? Are there clear learning objectives or syllabi for teachers, students and parents to follow? Do the AP tests fairly reflect these objectives?

Thanks for looking in to this Morgan! Could you also look in to the proposed countywide cuts in elementary art, music and physical education? Many parents are upset about this issue and Kris Cooke said her email "lit up like a Christmas tree" over it but the N&R is not giving it any coverage.

FYI: Since 2000, the number of non-white GCS students enrolled in an Advanced Placement course increased from 447 to 1,377

It's great that more kids are in AP courses. But the issue seems to be whether the AP instruction is effective and challenging to the students. How are our county AP students doing.

See strand "Terry Grier resigns" for many more comments and information regarding AP.

AP is there. The Good and the bad.

AL in middle school is NOT there.

Think about it folks. Lets attack what is not there!

If the bond issue passes, will this help?

I agree - AL in middle school is non-existent.

I agree - AL in middle school is non-existent.

I agree - AL in middle school is non-existent.

i question the qualifications of both dr jane flemming and lisee timmons

ive learned from a very reliable source that
neither has Al certification how could our
human resource dept hirer such unqualifide personnel,making such salaries as director and executive director of the Al dept

i question the qualifications of both dr jane flemming and lisee timmons

ive learned from a very reliable source that
neither has Al certification how could our
human resource dept hirer such unqualifide personnel,making such salaries as director and executive director of the Al dept

Well, if you hire incompetent and unqualified people, then you can clearly place the blame when AL isn't implemented properly.

Reading todays story it looks like it has to become a black/white issue. Blacks don't do as well as others.
There is a solution....STUDY.

GCS pays the $83 per test fee for all the students who take AP exams. If 8400 students took exams last year, it cost the county nearly $700,000. If fewer than 50% passed, that means a strong argument could be made that $350,000 went down the tubes. Where in the GCS budget does this money come from? And how could it be better spent . . . maybe on reading recovery programs or identifying and working with "diamonds in the rough" in early elementary grades so when they reach high school they are actually ready for AP or honors level courses?

I'm not certain, but I think I read that GCS gets a grant to cover some (possibly half) of the costs of AP exams.

It's been a long time but I think I remember my parents paying the fee for me to take my AP exam. What's wrong with that? It's only about the cost of a college text book. Of course those students who cannot afford fees should receive funding.

I spoke with Alan about this before during a lengthly debate. He said that many students have senioritis and don't even try on the tests, but GCS policy is you MUST take the exam.
I think a good compromise is that GCS would reimburse anyone that gets a 3 or more on the exam, if they fill out a form. Yes, more paperwork, but come on; at $83 dollars for each we could save alot of money. In addition anyone that is on FRL would have their test paid for no matter score. That would cover everyone that needed the assistant. Give the student an incentive to study and make the parents pay attention to the entire thing. $83 for 3 hours credit in college is much cheaper than paying to take a course in college.

With money getting tighter all the time, we have to consider basics before we consider the extra. AP Exams are extra in my book.

Is there a benchmark as to who is eligble for AP classes ?

I have heard something about the 85 % range for white students and 65 % for Minority students.

I have also heard that there are special programs in place for the Minority students to reach the 65 % if they are close( I guess a White Kid at 82 % is SOL )

If the above is true,,,,and if anyone can confirm this,,,, GCS has once again watered down the intentions of what AP courses are all about....

GCS once again does NOTHING for the MINORITY student.

Labeling an unqualified Student as AP for the goal of making a Superintendent look like a great innovator should be against the law, and there should be no doubt that it is UNETHICAL.....

I do remember when Judge Manning threatened to close Andrews High School for lack of performance,,,about the same time that Newsweek Magazine named Andrews as one of the Top 300 High Schools in America ( Based on the number of kids TAKING AP classes)

This may have been Terry Griers' biggest Con Job while watching over GCS.

one of the idicators that GCS uses is PSAT scores. My son's counselor said anyone making 145 on the PSAT would automatically be put into APWorld History instead of Honors. Not sure about the other AP classes.

AP world is the first kids will get put into. It is for Sophomore's only.

If we really think about what an AP class is - it is supposed to be taught at a college level, right?

I find it very hard to believe that there are that many 10th graders ready for college. You have to ask yourself - is my 10th grader ready to sit in a Greensboro College class with freshman taking World History? (putting aside the obvious age difference, let's just think about the academics).

I believe there are fewer than 1% of 10th graders truly ready for that, yet we all too eagerly put them into AP World History in the 10th grade.

Is it possible that the AP World History being taught to these 10th graders is really not the same as the one taught on college campuses across the country?

To change the thread a bit, but not much, DPI just had the funds alloted to each county for gifted students audited and found that many counties don't use the money appropriately. Is there some way to see how much of that money came to GCS and how it has been spent? That might explain why the AL program is lagging, especially in middle school, and why money is spent for testing students who have not qualified for AP classes using any method other than PSAT scores--a test which is decidedly NOT a placement exam.

This is so stupid. Half the time people on the blog spend talking amount how there is no AL in middle school and then the other half complaining about having AL (AP) in High School.

AL in middle school means taking Algebra 1 in 7th grade. If you do so then next its geometry or Alg 2 in 8th. If you take this route then there is no choice but to be taking AP math courses in High School.

Do the people who question AP classes actually have kids in High School?

It seems that we speak from both sides of our mouth on this. Or you people dont know what you want.

Yes,I think some Blogers have children in both middle and high school. I have a child in both. I am all for AP classes if taught by qualified teachers which gives students a change to pass the AL exams- regardless of who pays parents or the GCS. But, I know that AL in middle school is lacking and that the students are bored and we should be preparing them for these AP and advanced classes and we are not. My school does not even offer 7th grade Algebra and 8th grade Geometry. How's that for fairness in the schools. They say it is because they did not have enough students who scored 97 or above on EOC. But I know for a fact that other GCS schools have the program with only a handful of those qualified with the majority of the class as fillers. How's that for GCS challenging the brighest- when they kids could certainly benefit from the program.

Students are put into advanced math if they make 97 or 98% on the 5th grade math EOG-- at NWMS that is about 30 students out of 400 plus when my son entered 6th grade. That does not include the over 100 that are strong AL but not in the top 2% of the class. Legally those students are suppose to get differential instruction. Just like an EC child. Does it happen? Not much. It you put all those students in one class then they have a better chance of moving at a faster pace and deeper depth of material. If you put them in a class with non AL students they end of being tutors. It is the truth. I have lived it. Most students are living it now.

None certified AL. How about AP teachers
We get no real info.

I am having some real concern about the usefulness of the school system WEB pages/"sharing" of information.

1) A while back an education group was brought in to audit/review the systems Human resources operation:

The results were never visibly published (best I can tell).

2) Recently the College Boards audited/reviewed the AP program

Again results not promulgated.


3) After 3 or more years of operation the school systems Quality System ((PMS) Process Management System ISO 9001:2000) had its certification/accreditation revoked.

This fact was never disclosed to the public.

This systems glowing propaganda on the WEB pages simply disappeared with no explanation

A significant amount of money had been spent on it.


They have now started a new Quality System ((CSI) Continuous System Improvement)


From their WEB pages. http://www.gcsnc.com/depts/csi/index.htm

Continuous Systems Improvement (CSI) is a quality management system that focuses on efficient systems performance and customer
Satisfaction.

That is what was said about the old system (start spending again).

This is what Ms Ozment says about the new system.

"The current priority for GCS is process management and documentation versus any specific vehicle/methodology”

A quality system with no methodology?
In fact no Quality manual (I have never seen a quality system that writes procedures before a quality manual. Never)
However that does eliminate the need for methodology.
Maybe that is our educational systems problem (lack of methodology)?

Mr. Garth Mr. Quick. Put a stop to this nonsense.
You’re expecting us to vote for bonds

ANON - "they did not have enough students who scored 97 or above on EOC"

http://www.gcsnc.com/al/levels.html
Levels of AL Services Middle School
Sixth Grade through Eighth Grade

"In the case of a school with too few students demonstrating a Moderate, Strong or Very Strong need for differentiation to justify an advanced learner class section in language arts and/or math, such students may be given the option of enrolling in a section of that subject at the next higher grade level at that middle school. A school may also make other options available for meeting the student’s needs."

The AL Department is in the process of 'auditing' the implementation of tha AL plan at each school. I 'm sure they would welcome your comments.

Dr. Jane Fleming (fleminn@gcsnc.com)
Executive Director of Advanced Learners/AP/IB
120 Franklin Blvd.
Greensboro, NC 27401
336.370.2316

Hey Morgan, Have you ever checked out the passing rate of our IB programs?

Morgan,

I think you will find the number who actually get IB diplomas interesting.

According to the DPI, Guilford County received $2,352,790 in federal and state funds for gifted education. Given that there are around 9000 students identified as gifted, that means each student had approx. $250 to be put towards their education--a class of 20 would have $5200. Did that happen, and if not why is the AL leadership spending so much time recruiting/identifying new students when they're not doing much with the students already identified?

Could it be the new leadership in the AL department?

Friday Notes from Guilford County Schools

July 20, 2007

"Thirty-six GCS students from the class of 2007 have been awarded an International Baccalaureate (IB) Diploma from the IB Organization"

"A total of 36 diplomas were awarded to GCS students for 2007, an increase from 31 in 2006."

We surely must of had more then 36 students enrolled in the IB program (Grimsley/Central and Smith).

2006 was REALLY bad then. We didnt read about that in any Grier sponsored journals did we?

Jack,

Does 'gifted' mean AL or another subgroup?

NCDPI stats say that there are about 10,500 'Advanced and Intellectually Gifted' kids in GCS (April 2007).

About 15%?

Anon,

See the section "AIG Child Count Reports" in the Exceptional Children Division of NCDPI at http://www.ncpublicschools.org/ec/data/childcount/ .

I think gifted includes AL students and possibly students in AP classes. If the latter, then it would boost the AIG count from the number I gave. That was a 2006 number. Numbers aside, GCS really doesn't seem to be doing what they need to for AIG children and are currently putting lots of effort into identifying children who can placed in AL or other upper level groups. From comments here and in presentations before the BOE, it seems that parents who have AIG children don't believe their children are being served at the level they need.

Are they being served:

NO

I have one and he continues to tell me that he's still waiting to learn something this school year.