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If those that should step up to the plate as role models, instead of hindering a strong gang strategy, selfishly give approval. Looks like we'll just have to wait until one of the hoodlums kills somebody. If blacks represent the majority then whos failure is that, is it those that put race first over everyones safety. Beau

I really don't care what the proper definition of a gang is - this is just a extraneous conversation to overlook the real problem. There are students who are misbehaving and they're not being punished. Period.

While our board is trying to determine the proper definition, in the meantime, kids are disrupting class with no consequence, fighting other students with no consequence, cussing in class and being disrespectful to the teachers, etc. etc. - all with NO punishment.

I don't care if they wear clown costumes to school - if they misbehave, discipline them. Get them out of the classroom with those who are there to learn.

AMEN! Forget semantics! If rules are broken, enforce discipline measures!!! I don't care what color the clown is! Let's make Rule #1--PULL UP YOUR PANTS!

Exactly...what constitutes a gang?.....

I think we need to be extremely careful in labeling kids as gang members in our schools...

Forgive this analogy, but it gets to my point:

Cancer and a heart attack are both very serious conditions, but you do not use the same course of treatment.

The same can be said of student misbehavior and gang activity. Both are very serious and have to be treated, but without a clear definition of what "gang activity" is, you may will be treating the wrong thing.

Listen, no one is arguing in favor of allowing students to misbehave. Period. No one is arguing in favor of allowing "gang activity" on our campuses. Period. However, if we are going to eradicate our campuses of "gang activity" don't we have to know what to look for?

Our educators deserve a policy that clearly spells out for them what to look for; not one that implies "everyone who coughs should be treated for a cold."

As for the race issue in all this, I've said before and will repeat: No community has suffered the ills of gang activity more than poor, minority communities. No community wants to see the disappearance of gangs more than poor, minority communities. But a basic "willy-nilly" approach of round them all up and let the judge sort it out does not work. Just ask the judges.

Where students are misbehaving, the student code of conduct should be used swiftly, fairly and consistently. None of us want fights, profanity directed at our teachers or disruption of our classes, etc.

And where "gang activity" (properly defined) is taking place, we owe it to our kids and community to remove the threat from our campuses.

An argument for clarity in policy is just that and not an argument in favor of anything else.

To my friend Beau Jackson: many of us serve directly, everyday, as role models to scores of children across this county. I invite you to give me a call at my office at 235-0345. There are many wonderful volunteer opportunities at my agency and many others throughout this county for you, or anyone else, to get involved in the life of a child as a tutor, lunch buddy, etc.

Not race first, my friend, but our children first.

God bless us all.

This statement:

Both are very serious and have to be treated, but without a clear definition of what "gang activity" is, you may will be treating the wrong thing.

Should read...you may WELL be treating the wrong thing....

Thanks.

If you’re from a big family and have friends from big families and you all hang out together and sometimes there are fights with other kids, does that make you a gang?

Yes!

If you are emulating the things you see in pop culture – throwing up gang signs and wearing certain clothes a certain way – does that make you a gang member?

Yes!

I would say this.

f you’re from a big family and have friends from big families and you all hang out together and sometimes there are fights with other kids, does that make you a gang?

Maybe not a gang but you need to be punished for fighting.

If you are emulating the things you see in pop culture – throwing up gang signs and wearing certain clothes a certain way – does that make you a gang member?

Clothes in certain way following pop culture, no.
Known gang signs, definitely yes. We should not encourage this. Should be punished.

Beau,

According to GSO Police Capt. John Wolfe, who is over the gang unit, Asian and Hispanic gangs are the most dangerous gangs in the city.
One could argue your assumption plays directly into the argument school board member Amos Quick is making.

Everyone,
I'd also like to note that most of the board members I spoke with seem to agree that this is an issue of behavior. They have behavior policies (whether they are adhered to or not) already. So do we really need a policy about gangs?

I think at the heart of this is knowing what the reality of gangs in our community and schools is versus the perception. What prompted this policy attempt, the reality or the perception?

First of all, as a teacher who has spent over twenty-five years working in schools with large numbers of minority populations, I understand Mr. Quick's and other board members' hesitation to define specific behaviors as "gang" behaviors. There are few things more discouraging to a teacher than seeing a bright and talented thirteen year-old lose give up on his life before it has really started. However, one of those worse things is to find out that one or two of your former students has been shot and killed in a senseless drive-by. All that potential lost leaving everyone around him wounded. I am writing this rather long blog in memory of a young artist and in honor of the friend of carried him from the car to the hospital steps where he died.

Importantly, our school board members, whether we agree with all of their positions, are role models for our students through their (in most cases) service to our community and interest in education. No one is clocking in the countless, and sometimes thankless hours, the board puts in on behalf of the children in Guilford County. Furthermore, in Mr. Quick's particular case, his work providing supervised recreational activities for children, particularly those children who might not otherwise have access to organized and supervised recreational activities,
is a vital part of solution in turning communities around. In fact, for many children and young adults, the experiences they have through sports and other community recreational activities provides the outlet and the self-esteem that helps enable them to come to school and work hard for a goal that won't be met in a thirty second sound bite.

Getting back to the difficult definition of how to handle the gang situation that actually exists and the one that could be construed to exist is complicated. Those writers who protest that the problem in our schools is not whether or not a student's disruptive behavior in the classroom, the hallways, gymnasium and so forth is caused because he or she is in a gang are right. It is the behavior that must be addressed. Addressing the behanior in a fast, firm, and fair way is the challenge, but it must be met. Absolutely.

Disruptive, disrespectful behavior can not be tolerated anywhere in a school, and that is the message that administrators, educators, teachers, parents, aunts, uncles, and neighbors all need to be sending students. When you have parents arguing that it is OK for a child to shove another child because the child is "just being a boy", that parent needs some re-education. Or, if you have a parent whose child refuses to stop talking and swatting at other students in class say, "Yes, I know she talks...I'll give you that," but who can not connect the talking and swatting to developing the skill of concentration, well, that parent needs re-education. Communicating what kinds of behaviors must occur within the classroom and within the walls and boundaries that define the school and the school community is the responsibility of leadership but the job of everyone.

It is important to recognize that school climate is not the total province of the particular school or the school system. School climate is not created solely by what happens from August until June, Monday through Friday, 8:00 AM until 4:00PM. It begins in the homes and the communities that feed the school. The fight at Grimsley High School between students from two different neighborhoods is a case in point. If the school system, city and county government, and all of us fail to understand this, we will never be able to fix what ails our public schools.

What is disrespectful behavior? What is disruptive behavior? Why is repeating the same offense over and over problematic for teachers and administrators as well as the behaver and the students her noncompliance influences? What is a threat? How will threats be handled? How will the defense, "She was just playing," be handled? What will (not should) happen if a student brings either a real gun or a toy gun presenting it as real gun to school? All of these questions and many more should be spelled out so that there is no doubt about what course of action will occur. This should published, for starters, in a student handbook of rights and responsibilities that is published by the system throughout the system. Teachers need to go over this with students and students should be held accountable; and parents need to know that if their child does X, he will receive X consequence. There need not be surprises.

What happens to a student who has a conflict with another student to the extent that it influences a student's ability to learn and perform in school---even if the interfering behavior (fighting) does not occur on school property? I do not know what state law in North Carolina says about this question, but in another, at one time largest school district in its state, urban/suburban school system where I taught, the school system had the authority to deal with any type of behavior that interfered with another student's ability to perform in school. So when a girl in one of my classes and some of her friends took a 2" by 4" to another student in the school at a party Saturday night, the school system had the authority to act on behalf of the injurred student and the interests of the school system. This provision in Guilford's County code of conduct would send the message to students, parents, and our community that the school system recognizes that actions and activities that occur outside the physical boundaries of the school and school activities can and do influence what happens within the school.

Getting back to the idea of student creativity in getting around rules as written, there needs to a coda that the school system realizes that it is impossible to define every possible situation that will occur, and that it reserves the right to make a judgment should the intent of a specific rule be violated. For the example, if a student brings a toy gun to school or a facsimile of a gun, it will be considered a weapon and treated accordingly.

Taking this one step further, a student that behaves as if he were a member of an organized gang engaged in criminal activity will be treated as if he were in an organized gang and will be subject to all federal, state, and school system laws, statutes, and regulations. The intent of the behavior is irrelevant. Gang behaviors include but are not necessarily limited to the wearing of specific colors, the wearing of accessories that would not normally be considered part of gang identity in such a manner that is recognizable by others as being identified with a particular organized group engaged in criminal activity. The use of any language system including but not limited to written symbols and hand signs identified with any organized group engaged in criminal activity is strictly prohibited. The creation or use of email accounts, web pages, chat rooms, or other technology provided by the school system for the purpose of either conducting or appearing to conduct the activities of a group engaged in criminal behavior is illegal and may be used in a court of law as evidence of criminal activity. The recruitment of a student to join a group engaged in organized criminal activity by another student in the school system will subject the recruiting student to expulsion.

The key to defining the type of gang the school and other governmental systems should be concerned about in the context of the current policy discussion is "organized criminal activity". That should eliminate the wannabes. However, the wannabes should get the message that if they present themselves as a person or persons involved in organized gang activities, they will be treated accordingly.

Do we really need a policy about gangs?

Gangs are a very real, prevalent, underlying danger in our schools and communities and NO community in Guilford County is exempt from this...

Gang initiations going on in our schools are very real and it is getting worse....

Every African American boy that I ever worked with has been approached and threatened to be "beat down" on school grounds into a gang.....It is just a case of picking the side you want to be a part of.

African American boys do not have a chance if we cannot provide them a "gang free" zone at school where they can come to learn...without fear!

My son is white and has never been threatened...matter of fact...he would not be allowed to join the gangs at our school because of the color of his skin....yet....every black friend he has ever had has been threatened or beat down into a gang.

Every one!!

I don't know how to address it ...
but it must be addressed?

One of these boys that actually had a chance in life that my son knew well was

Keith Love.........arrested at Southern Guilford with cocaine, a 35 mm hand gun, and an assault rifle........

This kid had a future....maybe would still have one if he would have never attended a public school!!!! Never forced to choose between being beat up or beat down!! Ask him how gangs are affecting our kids....

An African American friend of mine has considered taking her children out of public school because her kids have been accused of "acting white".

That is something that this school board just dont consider. While they ponder on the subject countless kids are being forced to take a wrong direction.

As adults...

we must take the responsibility seriously and step up and do what we can to remove the perceived dangers that our kids live with on a daily basis on our campuses..

Tell the students that were recently jumped, robbed, and cut by a razor by eight - 10 young black men between the ages of 18 - 22 that the "gangs" are just for protection!!

The problem with "policy" and gangs is the same problem we constantly face with any other criminal activity. By the time we get through all the red tape and pass a "policy" it's already outdated. The criminal element is almost always a step ahead. We have to change the attitude and perception in our communities and families, especially our poor minority communities and families. The harsh reality is that being smart, making good grades, following rules, et cetera, are not seen as the right thing to do in many of our socioeconomically disadvantaged, minority communities. As commented earlier, this is seen as acting too white, or being to goody goody and the child is ostracized by his/her peers. We as parents set the bad example for our children when we try to one-up the system by ordering water at McDonalds and filling our cup with Sprite, or making that U-turn when the sign says not to, or any other “it’s easier to get forgiveness than permission” actions that we as adults take. We send the message to our youth that some rules are ok to be broken and some are not. The problem is, children don’t have the cognitive ability to discern between the two which is why children’s rules are made by what should be responsible adults who do. We do need to enact policies to identify and label “gang activity” for the purpose of consistency in school discipline and more importantly for the educative benefits the policy enacting process will provide to parents and educators alike.

I have a friend who works with 4th graders at a Title I school. She told me last year a speaker came to talk to the children about gang life, that you either end up "dead or in prison." There is a definite need to start these talks at a young age, sad but true. What startled her was one of the 4th graders raiser his hand and said, "But what if your parent wants you to join a gang? What do you do?"

Now how does one answer that question? Children are taught to obey their parents so what does this child do?

We need to start ASAP protecting the children that are getting "beaten down" to join a gang, not the ones doing the beating!

The "acting white" syndrome is a big problem in our schools.

The Black school Board members Quick and Hayes are ruining the lives of many black youths in schools by not supporting strong anti gang policies.

Too many young blacks are getting sucked into bad behaviour by a small percentage.

I work in Guilford County elementary school in a poorer school area. There are many minorities, Hispanic, Black, Asia and other. These are great kids. I can see already the writing is on the wall for many of these children because of their home lives. They are very fortunate to have great teachers and a wonderful support system at this school. This is not enough. We need to reach these children at an early age to prevent them from joining gangs. But it must start at home too.

Amos,

Where are you? What do you propose about reaching children at an early age?

Amos,

Where are you? What do you propose about reaching children at an early age?

Proposal from GC School Board.

Stick our heads in the sand and pretend that Gangs dont exist and lets watch another couple of thousand kids ruin their lives.

The Obama election team said that they didnt discuss race once. This is something that Deena "Jeremiah Wright" Hayes should think about.

The best way to keep kids engaged in positive pursuits and out of negative ones - at any age - is academic success.

For very young students this begins in home environments where reading is promoted and encouraged in a variety of ways.

I strongly disagree with the "anonymous" person who says that I am ruining the lives of many black youth and thank God that my life's work is a testament to the exact opposite.

The 6-units of The Salvation Army Boys & Girls Clubs of Greensboro, where I work every day, help hundreds of our community's youth annually. We are indeed the "Positive Place for Kids" and I am blessed to be the leader of this dynamic organization.

I invite you to call me at (336) 235-0345 and get engaged in the lives of our children.

God bless.

Clubs like these are a sucess because the kids that go there "actually" want to be there.

Why cant we create the same atmosphere in our schools?

Please forgive the intrusion here, but alas I hate to see this issue churned by heat rather than addressed properly. Amos has no tolerance for improper behavior, but has seen enough misapplication of discipline that giving a “hunting license” for supposed gang activity brings fear of more lives ruined and kids pushed into gangs.

Point about Latin and Asian gangs is also well taken, but again misses real point, most of these kids are looking for something to hang on to. Role models, someone who cares, the pressure these kids are put under to “gang” is tremendous both from outside influences and also from the very real stress of trying to grow up in a very uncertain world where your very skin color places you at a perceived and probably real disadvantage.

Amos works in the trenches every day, I do not and therefore give a lot of head to his words. We may disagree, sometimes strongly, but I do listen carefully to his view as it is probably one of the best we have. I must also use what little knowledge and experience I have been granted and as many note will make an independent decision as most Board members do.

I want criminal gangs out of our schools and out of our society, period. It is easy to define the majority of gang behaviors, but I recall decades ago signs and symbols used in fraternities were common place among the elite of Yale, Harvard, Oxford, Georgetown etc. and one of the oldest gangs with a very unusual and often misunderstood past are the Masons. Another “gang” is the Knights of Columbus, defining “gang” behavior appears to be very simple, up to the point where begin removing kids from school or punishing them for behavior that has been tolerated for decades and beyond among some of our most revered institutions.

I do believe we are too tolerant of violent behavior and disrespectful behavior on campus and we must get a handle on it instead of compromising as we have killed academic performance in our poorer schools because of this tolerance. Some blame it on teachers and some teachers should be held accountable, but mostly it is principals and their supervisors that have bred a dangerous climate in many of our schools, yes I said dangerous and I mean it. Here lies the real issue.

Are gangs tolerated in the 6-units of The Salvation Army Boys & Girls Clubs of Greensboro that Amos mentions?
Do they have misbehaviour in these clubs?
How is it dealt with? Are latinos and Asians welcome there?

P.S. I spent a lot of time as a kid at the Boy's Club with my little brother in tow and have great memories of making things in the plastics shop there.

And look what that got you into!
;-)

Garth,

Why do we continue to tolerate bad behavior and total disrespect for teachers in our school system? Who wants to keep things status quo? We are destroying the futures of children who do want to learn for the sake of some thugs that will esooner or later drop out.

What happened to a good old reform school?

ALL children are welcomed and nurtured at the 6-units of The Salvation Army Boys & Girls Clubs of Greensboro. The only membership requirement is that they be between the ages of 6 - 18. Race is not a consideration when children register and we have children of many ethnic backgrounds on our membership rosters: African-American, Caucasian, Hispanic, Native American and Asian - and it is a beautiful sight to see them engaged in beneficial programs together.

Yes, there are incidents of misbehavior at our Clubs, just as there are anywhere you have children. Our youth development strategy is very effective in dealing with these incidents. There is also considerable work done to instill certain competencies and "ownership senses" in our children before misbehavior occurs. Boys & Girls Club youth are constantly exposed to a variety of programs that promote health, social skills development, education character building, leadership and problem solving skills.

There is no measurable "gang" problem within our local organization or the children who are engaged in our B&GC programs. Our biggest current problems: needs for newer transportation and more space.

LET ME AGAIN REPEAT WHAT I HAVE OFTEN SAID: NO BOARD MEMBERS - NONE - WANT GANGS OR THEIR ASSOCIATED NEGATIVE INFLUENCES IN OUR SCHOOLS, COMMUNITIES OR NEIGHBORHOODS.

Groups like the Boys & Girls Clubs of Greensboro and High Point; Win-Win Resolutions, the YW and YMCA's, etc. work very hard everyday to minimize the negative outcomes our children too often face.