News-Record.com

This post will say it all, JR:
http://erikhuey.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/grier-gets-giddy/

E.C. Huey

Oh my god. This is the funniest thing I have ever heard. Well we definitely know why and where Grier gets it from. Then to think about it the NC School System must hold dumb a** seminars every day of the week. Because Guilford County School System has more than it's fair share. Just check out the Southern Guilford High, Middle and Elementary Schools.

The Guilford County Schools have accomplished a lot and have much to be proud of. Test scores are up; drop out rates are down. There are many remaining challenges to be sure, but we should take time out to acknowledge the many positives.

Dave Ribar, you must work for GCS and looking for some brownie points with Grier. Because, test scores in the schools are not up like the REPORTS are showing neither is the drop out rate down like the REPORTS are showing, mainly because no one knows exactly how to read these reports, these reports are sent out and published on the internet only to make Grier look good. Try calling and leaving him a message to return your call, his office has the biggest black hole I have ever seen.

Actually, tests scores are up, in most cases. And the drop out rate was up slightly the last time we reported it, but it was still lower than any of the state's other metro systems.

Dear uhave...:

Bless you. Why in the world would anyone hesitate to return your calls when you offer such thoughtful and reasonable comments?

OK, before this gets out of hand, this is a reminder to keep comments civil. No reason to go down the road of personal attacks.

"He surrounds himself with people who share common beliefs and values." Does this mean that he surrounds himself with "Yes Men and Women"? I thought that GCS was all about diversity? I guess that diversity doesn't extend to people with different ideas and opinions than that held by Grier? Most great leaders surround themselves with people with different ideas, so as not to get into groupthink. Highly cohesive groups are much more likely to engage in groupthink. This unquestioned belief in the rightness of the group can cause the group to ignore the consequences of their actions. And, we have seen this in real life occurring often in this district.

John, I see that you attempted to marginalize posters that you know will be critical of Terry Grier, but nevertheless, I will leave you with a simple set of questions to be answered.

I assume this award was based on a criteria based upon accomplishments, rather than a political process or popularity vote. Your article said that Grier was cited for winning based upon three accomplishments: "The organizations credited Grier with halving the high school dropout rate to 3 percent, increasing student participation in higher-level courses and formulating an incentive plan that pays math and reading teachers extra to work in low-performing schools."

So, let's review those accomplishments. One, He gets credit for a 3% dropout rate when 2/3rds of the students never graduate (this doesn't compute). Four of the high schools in the district were cited by a national publication as "Dropout Factories". Several of those schools are being threatened with closing by Judge Manning if they don't improve. This represents accomplishment? Two, he gets credit for increasing the number of students taking AP test, when the taxpayers pay $700,000 per year for the test, and the pass rate is abominable. (Most districts do not pay for tests for students, but many reimburse upon successful completion.) This only counts to get listed in Newsweek as having the best schools in the nation, based upon taking tests, not passing tests. Third, he gets credit for Mission Possible, which is a program without a record of success as yet. Yes, he implemented a potentially good program, but we really haven't seen any results reported as yet, have we? They may be there eventually, but it is going to take a few years to really call this a success.

So, I ask you, John, and the other debaters, is this the best performance by a Superintendent in the State of NC? If so, the state of public education in other districts and NC must be in a truly deplorable condition.

Stormy, not marginalizing. Just trying to keep the discussion at a level in which data and ideas are exchanged. (Your post, for instance, does just that and I'm appreciative.)

I am hopeful that uhavegot will come back with information that supports the charges he/she makes about test scores and dropout rates. If you google guilford and test scores, you can see stories about the results pretty easily.

I am taking no side in the debate. I'm simply trying to facilitate it. So, I'll leave your questions to the others.

If things under him are so great? Why is teacher turn-over so ridiculous...come hang out some time...see what we mean.

I know exactly what you mean, Pam.

JR: maybe not marginalizing, but it is a little bit condescending when you remark or editorialize about the anti-Grier folks in jest. There is a hefty population of county residents who believe GCS needs to take a different direct with regards to our children...and fast. These are the goof folks that will speak very loudly in the May primary.

And like Stormy accurately points out, GCS regularly engages in fuzzy math, rolling out Dr. Zhang with his fancy charts to cover up the fact that are schools are really failing and that our students really aren't doing as well as they should and that Grier & Company really is responsible for what happens. Let Judge Manning go in and actually take over a school; yes it really may not get to that point, but I'm not calling that man's bluff.

JR: maybe not marginalizing, but it is a little bit condescending when you remark or editorialize about the anti-Grier folks in jest. There is a hefty population of county residents who believe GCS needs to take a different direction with regards to our children...and fast. These are the good folks that will speak very loudly in the May primary.

And like Stormy accurately points out, GCS regularly engages in fuzzy math, rolling out Dr. Zhang with his fancy charts to cover up the fact that are schools are really failing and that our students really aren't doing as well as they should and that Grier & Company really is responsible for what happens. Let Judge Manning go in and actually take over a school; yes it really may not get to that point, but I'm not calling that man's bluff.

Fair enough, E.C. I wasn't trying to make fun of the anti-Grier folks. If you think I was, you could also make the case that the second sentence in the post makes fun the other way. I was really trying to delineate that the guy has supporters and detractors, a point that obviously didn't need to be made.

And I didn't think you were, JR. As a former journalist, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.

But having previously been inside a GCS classroom and being openly critical of certain policies that are detrimental to our children...seeing things for yourself that really scares the heck out of any human being...being an anti-Grier person is actually not an act of shame. It's quite okay.

As a former GCS teacher and the parent of a GCS 2nd grader, I only want what's best for our children, and ALL of us (both pro-administration and anti-administration) only want what's best for our children. My theme is putting children first, and that must take place above all else.

Dave Ribar, should have know you were an educator.

Dave Ribar, should have know you were an educator.

God help us all. This man (speaking from personal experience from the Guilford County School System) is a spineless coward who uses his status to get what he wants. In doing this, he steps on those who are hard-working, dedicated, self-sacrificing individuals who put their hearts into what they do. But he doesn't care how hard-working, dedicated, or self-sacrificing you are. Grier is of no more worth to me then an ingrown toenail.

You think that anyone could ever be a successful superintendent in Greensboro? No matter what a person accomplishes, no matter what other cities' value of our civic leaders is, we are fairly quick to criticize (sometimes vehemently) whoever they are and whatever they do and sometimes before they even do it.

I think this is what Ed Kitchen meant by "picking at sores." We don't seem to be able to appreciate any of our leaders; how in the heck do you think we're going to recruit future leaders if we are so hostile toward the good ones we have?

Sue,

Give us some future leaders who are truly dedicated to the future of this county's population and not their own political or personal agenda, and you will see how they are supported. Charlotte probably was at the same point with its school board and superintendent until about 2 years ago. Their school bond referendum went down in flames, with the stated reason that the citizens had lost trust in the board members and superintendent. They had some valid issues. Well, the board got religion and a new attitude, and they got a new superintendent. The board got in tune with the citizens and taxpayers on education issues. They are turning things around, and the citizens just approved a new, hefty school bond. So, yes it can be done. Greensboro is no different. Give us some leaders worth supporting.

John,

One further point...you and Dave Ribar raised an issue for debate as to whether test scores are up or not. This is really not relevant here, as I pointed-out in my first post, the people that voted the award to Grier did not specify test scores as one of the three criteria for choosing him for election. So, whether test scores are up or down is irrelevant to the matter.

Based on the criteria used to make the award, Mr. Grier is probably deserving. When most of the parents I talk to, many teachers in the system, tell me "that they just hope they can survive (insert number) years and then be done with the schools," and most veteran teachers, when asked about when they can retire look at their wrists as if watches are calibrated in years and months, something is not right at the top. Morale could be worse, I guess, but I don't know how.

I think Terry Grier has had many forward-thinking ideas, but has had trouble seeing them through to fruition. While I am new to this area and school system, upon first inspection I am thorougly unimpressed with both the school board and superintendent.

However, upon receiving this award, I think it would go a long way towards convincing me of Grier's actual commitment to the school system if he donated his $5000 cash prize to Guilford County Schools.

How about it, Terry?

Some things never change! In 1991- 1994, Terry Grier wrecked havoc with the Akron City Schools in Akron ,Ohio. Many of the comments by the bloggers described Terry's leadership styles. Evidently he hasn't changed. We were very glad to be rid of him ( and his band of good old boys) but our happiness was tempered by the knowledge of the havoc that the Sacramento, CA district was headed for as he talked his way into their system. Officially, he received "good recommendations" because we had to send him packing. Many of us tried to "warn" Sacramento but they had to learn for themselves and it took less than 18 months for them to give him walking papers.
We lost so many valued administrators and excellent teachers during his reign that it has taken us years to recover. It was a "difficult three years" according to the paper...who understated the situation.
He made the Akron Beacon Journal today because of the news story about parents fighting in the elementary parking lot.
If the story of his recent award as Superintendant of the Year was ever printed, it would only have us shaking our heads about the state of North Carolina's public school administrators...if he was their best....North Carolina has our sympathies.

I work for GCS and I AM GLAD TO SEE HIM GO! The explusion rates are down because HE WILL NOT ALLOW US TO EXPEL STUDENTS no matter how much a discipline problem they are! Number of students taking AP tests are up because GCS forces all AP students to take the tests (at tax payer expense) and unfortunately only 9% pass. He consistently rotates principals to keep things semi-chaotic so he can remain in complete control. He is despised by the public, by the principals, and by the teachers. The BOE is completely out-of-touch with the public, students, and teachers and I hope the public recognizes this and votes for new board members who will not cow-tow to the superintendent. It is a case of the "tail wagging the dog." Good riddance...hopefully our county school's morale will increase. That letter of recommendation we teachers sent San Diego schools must have paid off!