News-Record.com

I don't know what can be done to stop students from fighting. However, once students DO engage in fighting, they have to be suspended. School should be a privilege and not a right. I think it is wrong that Walter Childs excuses the students' behavior by saying, "They fight because they don't have the same kinds of things other kids have." Who teaches people that it is OK to fight if you do not have as much as somebody else? And I am also disappointed to see statements like, "a black male is 44 times more likely to be suspended at Grimsley (attributed to Terry Grier in your 12/18/07 editorial)," with no statistical perspective. 44 times more likely than whom? And, are black males engaging in 44 times more fights? If black males are violating the school rules more frequently, then I would expect to see them disciplined more frequently.

Michelle:

I couldn't agree more with what you said about two patently silly statements. If poor students were fighting because they didn't have anything, one would expect them to be attacking students who appear to have more . . . students from Irving Park, for instance. . . rather than other poor students. Mr. Grier's statements using statistics always remind me of George Carlin's partial scores--Notre Dame 47 . . . . Does he mean that for the same offense a black student stands a greater chance of being suspended than a white student? For that would be a real problem needing redress.

Whenever such statistics come up the pertinent question is, "Did the student suspended DO something for which the proscribed and appropriate penalty is suspension?" The answer is always yes. So, the school administrators are acting properly in suspending students. The next question is why do some students misbehave, especially when by the time they are in high school they have been in school for 9 years and the rules haven't changed; yet, they haven't figured things out.

A start would be for the principals to be able to say, "I'm not responsible for things in any other school or in society at large, just this school. And from 8-4 M-F this is what's acceptable here. End of discussion." Seems too simple to empower the principals to actually run their schools as any manager of a company can.

The excuses for the inexcusable have already begun, and that's the way things are in GCS!

I guess it is a little to much to ask parents to raise their children with a little respect, right?

I don't care what race you are, that has nothing to do with it, if a child is not raised with respect - giving and earning, they are lost. I person that does not have respect, for him/herself or others is going to make/get into some sort of trouble. There has to be respect for something, and if that means the respect is for getting arrested or disciplined, so be it. Unfortunately, there are some that don't even care about that, parents and children alike.

"Board member Walter Childs said that many of the students involved come out of poverty. "They fight because they don't have the same kinds of things other kids have," he said.
Schools can't handle the problems alone, he said.
To combat those issues, Childs said, a number of things need to happen: Better jobs are needed to fight poverty; More role models are needed; More recreation facilities and programs are needed."

I personally think Mr. Childs' statements are an insult to many folks who, though struggling financially, still manage to conduct themselves in a responsible manner.

There may in fact be societal factors at work here(i.e. poverty, etc). But let's be honest--money, jobs, recreation facilities aren't at the top of list of items needed to remedy this situation. What kids in public housing need more than anything are FATHERS. The number of black children born to and being raised by single mothers is staggering. Recent data indicates nearly 70% of all black children are born out of wedlock (in public housing, where many of the students involved live, fathers living with and supporting their children are practically non-existent). The problem can not be solved by the schools, nor can it be solved by money, programs, or recreational facilities. Black men need to start accepting the responsibility of the lives they've created. Until we see a significant trend towards all children being raised by two loving parents (ALL children--all races/ethnic groups) I don't expect to see much improvments in the way kids (mis)behave these days...

Many African American males don't have the same opportunities that white kids have. They are not being taught how to read in school. They are unable to find jobs during the summer. However, I find it interesting that once they are in the juvenile justice system, suddenly there's over $50,000 a year available to take care of them. This is crazy! The more often a child is suspended, the more likely they are to drop out of school. High school dropouts are far more likely to end up in prison. This is one of the riches countries in the world, but we incarcerate more people annually than any other country. Why is this?

Could it be that corporate America is making billion of dollars annually off of prison labor. In 2006, incarcerated Black and Latino helped to generate $1.3 billion in revenue for Corrections Corporation of America, the largest owner and operator of privatized correctional facilities in the country. Furthermore, Unicor, a trademark name for the Federal Bureau of Prisons, reached over $700 million in sales in 2006. Google the reports and read them!

The 2006 annual report for Corrections Corporation of America stated, ?We expect that growth in the projected inmate population and limited development of new prison beds by the public sector will be favorable to the private corrections industry.?

Black kids are caught up in a system that draws them into a "school to prison pipeline" intentionally. White kids are far less likely to get in trouble for committing the same offenses that Black kids commit in many schools. How do I explain that to my son? Frequently, teachers call on white students and ignore the hands of Black students. How do I explain that to my son? An "A" at a predominantly Black middle school is not the same as an "A" at a predominantly white school. So, when my Black child arrives at a racially mixed high school, he is far behind his white peers. How do I explain that to my son?

Is fighting the answer? "No!" But when you feel unwanted in a school, you are not reading on grade level, you don't know what your gifts and talents are, you have no chance of getting into college, you really don't have a lot to lose by fighting. Black kids need an education and more opportunities to discover their gifts and talents. We need to stop spending money to attract businesses to Greensboro and put more effort into ensuring each child receives a quality education. Black, white, and Latino parents must demand that every child is taught to read. We must demand that our kids receive equal opportunities in school. We must demand that all kids are treated fairly. We must demand that our kids behave. We have to not only be concerned about our kids, we have to also be concerned about our neighbor's kid too. Many of us are doing just that, and we could use a little help from Michelle, Jack, Meghan, and Mike S.

Interesting. School board member Walter Childs, who is black, says in your newspaper that "many of the students involved come out of some kind of poverty. 'They fight because they don't have the same kinds of things other kids have.'" Childs say he wants better jobs, role models, recreation facilities, etc.

Nowhere does Childs mention that the majority of black kids come from homes with only one parent, usually the mother, perhaps a grandmother. Where are the fathers of these kids? Further, he does not mention that many of the mothers are mere teenagers themselves, who gave birth to children out of wedlock. Why doesnt Childs mention the lack of discipline in the black community?

I believe that blacks could get better jobs, etc. if they would buckle down and go to school, study hard, not bear children out of wedlock, and take personal responsibility for their actions without blaming others in the community. Fighting will not help black kids get "better jobs", as Childs says he wants for them.

see http://erikhuey.wordpress.com/2007/12/18/more-grimsley-fight-spin/
for my comments on this. Child's comments were both
inexcusable and disgusting.

Dear Cathy,
I disagree that black children are not being taught to read at school. I tutor in a school and see first hand that all children are being taught to read. What I find disturbing is that parents of the children (black and white) that I tutor do not participate in the process. It's not a matter of time, it is a matter of sacrifice. Stay home on week nights and turn off the TV sit down together at the table and read together.

Don't just tell your son, to learn as much as he can now so that his children will not have to experience the same the same crap that he has to experience. Show him what to do. Teach him to teach, so that he can rise above the aggravation that you have experienced so that he can teach the next generation to rise even higher. Hope for tomorrow begins today and it is inspired by you.

I don't believe that black kids are put in the "school to prison pipeline" by society or by the schools. Nor are they naturally drawn to it. Their lives take that turn because of a lack of respect for themselves, others, and the greater community in which they live. The kids that were engaged in the fight at Grimsley were not drawn into this conflict because of respect, it was a matter of disrespect. One young man spoke of that disrespect when he said that he would not tolerate another person berating his neighborhood because that was disrespecting his home.

So what if some one said something about another's neighborhood. That's a petty excuse to justify a unjustifiable action. Saying something bad about ones neighborhood is not a justifiable reason to go to war. And it certainly is not a matter of self respect. The bigger person would have walked away.

Tell your son that society respects the person who can walk away from such petty issues. Tell your son that he and he alone is in control of whether or not he is respected or feared. A man who lives his life seeking respect will find it by being respectful. A man who lives his life by fear will feel the sting of anarchy and will also experience that fear when some one stronger comes along. Democracy is the way of people who wish to work together, anarchy is the way of the beasts.

Cathy, I hope that your son and all of the sons of this world would learn one day to live together. Let's choose to begin together, let's choose to begin today. It is your time to choose for the sake of your son.

Thank you for your comments Rick. Please look at the report cards of each school on the Guilford County School's website. Not all kids are performing at the same level. I encourage my children and their friends to avoid living out the negative stereotypes. However, we must all try to be apart of the solution. I am in the process of trying to help the young people at Grimsley. Everyone seems to have an opinion, but too few people are offering their time and energy to work with kids. So, I appaud you for your effort to help kids read.

Grimsley is a great school, and I promise you the Grimsley community will step up to the plate and help students to become better educated and make better choices going forward. We won't solve all of the problems tomorrow, but we are going to give it our best efforts. I'll keep you posted.

Have you people noticed that it is always someone else fault?

Seems simple to me...

Parents, Parents, Parents.

It's time the parents take some responsibility for their children and their children�s actions. If you can't raise your children to treat others with respect you shouldn't be a parent. The parents should be held accountable in some fashion if their children misbehave. I'm not saying criminal charges but maybe mandatory parenting classes and weekly meetings with child services or school counselors.

From a teacher within the Guilford County system, believe me that this sort of thing is going on at about every school in the county. I see Grimsley gets all of the publicity because well, it's Grimsley.

It's about time the public wakes up and sees that these kids shouldn't be given the PRIVILEGE of a free education. They simply don't want to be there and take away from the students who actually are there to learn.

I don't care what ethnic group or religion you are. Please wake up and stop making excuses (Grier, school board, and PARENTS)! I'm so tired of everyone playing the RACE CARD to get out of trouble. The kids are smart, they catch on and throw that out anytime they get in trouble.

If you are a trouble maker and have been supsended or referred numerous times, you shouldn't be given anything based on who you are! Don't label all minority students and students that come from low socioeconomic homes. There are plenty of examples of people bettering themselves and overcoming obstacles. How about we do what we advertise and hold a high standard for our youth.

It's great that GCS gets all of this nice press for having low dropout rates and AP courses/scores. I would love for the schools to take a major hit with the dropout rates because it would better the entire system by getting these thugs/punks out of the county. It may not look good for a year or two but we'd have a better overall product with these students gone.

Principals have no control over their respective schools because their hands are tied from Eugene Street. You couldn't pay me to be in their position because frankly I feel as though I am contributing enough to this downward spiral as a teacher.

Teachers already feel like they are ineffective and unappreciated due to factors out of their control. Situations like these make us want to leave the profession.

The kids did what they did at Grimsley (and at other schools) because they are mimicking what they think is the best way to resolve conflict-with physical violence. This whole thing was garbage, and I don't want to hear the garbage about the "woe is me black male" argument. I am a black male, grew up in southeast Greensboro, went to Dudley, went on to procure 4 college degrees, including a doctorate, all without the excuses people make for these hoods-no father in the house, no summer jobs (I kept humping until I found one), and all that jazz.

To the frustrated teacher-your district office isn't to blame, because principals do try to put these miscreants out of schools, but, and I'll bet you my mortgage, most of these hoods are identified as EC, and under extended due processes, they can, if it is proven that their behavior is a manifestation of their disability, come back to school with a 0-10 day suspension and a revision of their functional behavior assessment, behavior improvement/intervention plan, and IEP. Yep.

If you really want to see change, lobby your board of education to fully utilize the alternative schools in your district and separate and segregate the hoods from the ones who really want their free, appropriate public education.

Mr. Feel Your Pain, after you got all of your degrees, did you move back to the hood to help others make it to college? We are currently in need of African American males to help the students at Grimsley to see that there is a way out of poverty. Perhaps you could come by and share your success story with students. We'll look forward to working with you....