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If the teachers taking the day(s) off are paid,then they should not expect the taxpayers to pay a double fee.They should pay and cover the cost.
The teacher's unions will never be happy until they have destroyed the middle class,and make as much as the person who works 7 days a week in a real job,that requires accountability.
Harvey

I agree with the first part of Harvey's post, but he's so far off base in the second that it's laughable.

I would like some clarification, documentation or perhaps a little research supporting the claim that teacher's unions will never be happy until they destroy the middle class. Honestly, this is the first time I've ever heard such an accusation. As far as a person who works a "real" job seven days a week... riiiiiiiiight. I don't know about you, Harvey, but I work a "real" job five days a week, 52 weeks per year. If my "real" job required me to work weekends as well, I'd probably quit because the only types of jobs that require that are retail and food services. Do you work your "real" job at Mickey D's?

As far as teacher compensation goes it isn't as bad as most think because they do, after all, work 10 months out of the year. But those are a very tough 10 months that require more hours every week than I put in personally. Then again, I do it for 12 months whereas they only do it for 10. In my opinion, it really evens out in the end. Back to the whole paying for a substitute debate, I do agree that they should continue to have it deducted from their payroll because this is a known condition from those in the field. It would be different if it was to change from being paid by the system to being payroll deducted - in that instance, it would be like a loss of benefits.

Oh, and as far as accountability goes, Harvey, how many bosses do you have? Teachers have roughly 30 kids in each class and, assuming those kids each have two parents, that makes 60 bosses per class. That doesn't even take into account their department's director, the curriculum facilitator, the principal and vice principals. For a high school teacher with three lectures, that makes 180+ bosses! I realize that your Mickey D's might have a substantial amount of assistant managers, but I doubt there are 180 of them to oversee your fry-cook duties.

Typical teacher talk,more funds, over crowded rooms,don't try to talk down to me,I probably am better informed than many of my detractors.
In past days there were one room schools,those children who finished,could read,and write and count.
The schools today are a disaster,they are just dumbing down the students.Have done so with the assistance of the teachers unions for about 40 years,so many of the parents are in the same boat
Sorry,but that is fact to me.
By the way,I am not a burger pusher,nothing wrong with that,so don't try that trick.
Forgive me if I have returned your insults.
Harvey

Harvey,

I'm still waiting on any glimmer of proof that you can provide that the teacher's union is destroying the middle class.

Oh, and I'm sure that someone as knowledgeable as yourself already knows that Teacher Unions are illegal in the State of North Carolina.

Please try again.

FACT ,"Forsyth Association Of Classroom Teachers,Teacher's Associations.
These names are used in NC to conceal their real purpose.Insult returned!!
So,get over it,you are not so smart,as you think.
I am not the only one who believes that teachers unions are a threat to the middle class,Read the book,titled "Some Body Has To Say It".The author believes that teachers' unions,and the terriosts present equal threats to the security of this nation.
So........
Harvey

FACT - An association is not a union. Unions have the right to strike, teachers do not. Try again, Harvey.

And as far as a book is concerned - I can cite dozens of texts that state America is evil or that Unions are the greatest invention since sliced bread. Is America evil? Nope. How about Unions, are they awesome? Nope again - I actually believe that they've long outlived their usefulness. Problem is, such texts are inherently biased, just like your "Somebody has to Say It." That's pretty much the equivalent as someone hanging onto every one of Rush Limbaugh's words and holding them as fact. Not fact... bias.

It's cool if you want to buy into drivel like that, everyone seems to need something to be upset about these days. The boards here on the N&R have always maintained a good bit of idiocy, but to liken a teacher's union (which doesn't even exist in our state) to terrorists as an equal threat to the security of our nation is laughable at best.

Keep digging yourself in, Harvey, this is getting entertaining if nothing else.

Oh, before you can even bring it up, I know next that you're going to mention the NCAE.

Frankly, I don't know how an institution like that exists since teachers in NC are not allowed to unionize. Again, I'll just let you know that I agree with you that unions should not exist - they are an institution that have long outlived their usefulness.

Gotta agree with Sensei here...thought it was common knowledge that teachers aren't allowed to unionize in NC. And to liken a teachers union to TERRORISTS??? Really? I think we all know our education system needs a change but likening whatever unions do exist to terrorists is taking it way too far.

No teacher unions in North Carolina. Sure, they can have organizations that basically lobby the state government like the NCAE does, but it's a far cry from an actual union.

That said, I think teacher pay could be increased slightly across the board to at least get North Carolina to the national average. Regarding the vacation days, I think Sensei has a point - since the norm is to have to pay the substitute, and it obviously works, why change? If the state ever gets so desperate for teachers that they have to increase the benefits, that might be one aspect to consider.

The cost of living is much higher in some other states than in NC,like a salesman selling air conditioners in Alaska,because they are popular in southern Florida.
So,using that ruse as a tool to get more funding for this failing public school system is only believed by the dumbed down,many of whom will believe anything.A growing number,are joining my ranks.
The public schoosl receive local,state,federal,county fines,traffic fines,lottery receipts,assets from many seizures of private property,and they still can't operate and still have an voracious appetite to gobble every asset in sight.
Voucher schools,private schools and home schooling, are a no no with the teachers' unions,I know why,so do they,so the old smoke screen is again employed.
By the way,calling me ignorant,narrow,etc,only underscores the fact that "THOSE THAT TEACH CAN'T".Got that ?
Harvey

"We've got to find ways to make North Carolina stand out from the states around us to reduce our teacher shortage."

Sure, benefits and pay scales do have some effect in attracting teachers, but of much greater potential would be to provide a relaxed and pleasurable environment where true and consistent learning can take place; teaching is fulfilling and effective, godly virutes and truth are instilled, and where a deep appreciation for American principles of history, govenment and western culture are promoted.

Perhaps this would stop the brain drain. early retirements and career shifts that plague the current system.

But most of all: stop all government involvement, state and national, in American education! Let it ALL revert to private support and management, of whatever affiliation. The current system is an ailing, failing brontosaurus that needs much more than a few superficial bureaucratic bandaids to fix it.

The current public system is just educational socialism - mirroring our general cultural and political drift in that direction. Like all neo-Marxist clones, it always falls short, always fails to deliver the intended goods and leads to oppression, academic mediocrity, violence, social corruption and a godless, amoral metaphysics.

First step - no more property taxes and bonds!!!!! Then a five-year transitional period to private schools, healping EACH school to set up private donation-based funds for scholarships for the truly needy. Most importantly, shut down the entire state education apparatus, including all national bureaucacies.

The only question that looms before us at this point is: how long will we put up with it (funneling the countless, minimally effective billions into it) until our eyes are opened and we take the necessary steps to alter it, systemically, not just piecemeal.

If we opt for a socialist for President this time around, the whole debacle will continue, and worsen. If we
elect the "conservative" alterantive, it will continue, just a little more slowly. I suppose it's going to take a general peasant uprising to end the cycle of failure.

It's a sad day when a conservative, Christian Constitutionalist sounds radical. All because we have drifted so far left we don't even see it (viz-a-viz the leftist Obama demagoguery). Much of the American populace is the proverbial frog in the boiling pot - so mind-numbed by the leftward drift that they flock like sheep to the polls to elect the next crypto-socialist front man.

Harvey,

If your incoherent psycho-babble is indicative of the leadership of your "ranks," perhaps you do have a right to be angry with the school system, as you certainly didn't garner anything while in English class. You are a giant case in point of the failure of our school systems because somehow you have made it to adulthood (I assume, you could be 15 by the quality of your posts) without having the knowledge of how to compose a proper sentence.

Much like Sensei, I am growing more and more amused with your unqualified statements. For example, when you say:

"The public schoosl receive local,state,federal,county fines,traffic fines,lottery receipts,assets from many seizures of private property,and they still can't operate and still have an voracious appetite to gobble every asset in sight."

Where's the proof? Also, where's the spacebar? You know, when you type a comma, it's generally considered common practice to place a space afterwards, but I digress. The state does support the school system through the education lottery, but I would welcome hearing how they gobble every asset in sight.

Instead of returning an actual qualified response, I'm sure it'll just be yet another batch of drivel from someone the public school system so obviously failed on so many levels. Oh, and Harv-meister, master of intellect, the phrase is: "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach."

Nolan,
I can whip you and 20 more of your intellect in my arena.
Harvey

Harvey,

Don't make me laugh! I'm sure your two year traditional college career has empowered you to take on someone like myself. I believe your posts are indicative of your intellect and you, sir, have been found significantly lacking.

However, I am starting to feel bad picking on a senile old man because you're likely confused on such a scary place like the internet. How did that Alderman's race turn out, Harvey? I guess the people of Kernersville could just as easily see through your confused rhetoric as I can. Keep fighting the good fight, my man. It does take some guts to stand alone on everything.

At least I don't hide.Nolan,you are just as pissed as many of my detractors,because I see through your elitist attitude.
I am on the internet,if you want to be informed
check me out www.ncconstirtion .com. & www.HarveyPulliam.com.I am not senile,my experience might eclipse your youthful exurberance.You might learn something,perhaps you are have big a hat,that is much too big for your head.
I don't hide from anyone,not even you.
Harvey

OK, kids, I guess I'll leave you to meeting after school at the bike racks. This discussion is closed.