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Well, I'm anti-death penalty all the way 'round ESPECIALLY after the many, many cases of death-row convicts that were overturned based on DNA evidence and a recent story I read about how prosecutors (not all, but some) will use manufactured evidence to ensure a conviction. I couldn't live with myself if I sat on a jury of someone who was sentenced to death and later was found to be not guilty.

The death penalty is a pretty touchy subject. Just because a person commits a horrible crime, does that mean that the state, acting in the place of all of the people, should kill? Philosophically, that makes all citizens of a state that executes a person into killers.

On the other hand, the people have the right to expect the state to do whatever is necessary to protect them from known dangers, such as anti-social criminals who kill.

Is executing a criminal really the only way to protect society from such people? What about life without parole? What happens if a person is killed by the state, and is then later proven innocent? I'm not sure I would want innocent blood on my hands, philsosphically speaking.

On yet another hand, what is the difference between killing a criminal and locking him away in prison for life without parole? In both cases, the person dies while in government custody. Given that equality, wouldn't it be necessary to look at secondary issues, such as the expense to the state? It's far less of a drag on the state to execute such people, rather than support and care for them for upwards of a half-century in some cases.

Obviously, I've spent a lot of time thinking about this without coming to any firm conclusion.

One last thing... I can't help wondering whether Christians who support the death penalty ever ask themselves what Jesus would have to say about the concept...

The problem with the death penalty, death penalty for those under 18 and the supreme court is the fundamental problems of the court system.

1. It is difficult to map crime to punishment. A kid watches the news report of a crime, a few days later they hear about an arrest and then what? nothing. Or worse, a day later they see the person has been let out (either bail, slap on the wrist, etc). What is the message there?

2. Because of (1), the death penalty is useless. I believe in the death penalty. It is the same thing as life in prison, but cheaper; however, it does not operate as a deterrant like it should. Some folks are in jail for 10 years or more before getting juiced. The court system that was designed to deliver justice has turned into a BINGO bar that criminals go to each week hoping to hit the lottery.

3. Our supreme court is turning into a laughing stock. The recent opinions that reference "consensus" and "NATO" and the "EU" attest to that. I guess reading the constitution is to passe.

Kids, and adults, need to know that there are consequences to actions. Especially when those actions are breaking laws.

One quick example: speeding. The law says that the sign tells you the MAXIMUM speed limit. The State Hwy Patrol gets on TV and says they ain't gonna mess with anyone going 10 mph over. Additionally, when you do get a ticket, all you have to do is go downtown, bribe the A/DA (they call it a fee) and a) all is forgiven b) the ticket dissapears from the computers and c) of course, insurance co. is not informed.

So the message: its ok to speed, even if your caught, its not a big deal. The same message is replayed for our children for shoplifting, stealing and even murder.

Eric,

Jesus did speak to murder and the penalty.

In reply to the Scribes and Pharisees who questioned Jesus about the Mosaic law and if he intended to change their laws, Jesus spoke very clearly when He said, "I did not come to do away with the law but to fulfill it."

So in answer to the Pharisees and to you, Jesus stood in agreement to the Mosaic Law which of course was given by God, his Heavenly Father, and since he and the Father are one, He gave the law(Thou shall not kill) and did not change it.

Jesus further commented on man's law (the Roman law at the time)and showed respect for the law when he said," Render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasar's and unto God the things that are Gods."

There is much more to establish that Jesus spoke in regards to the law. (the Jewish and Roman law which were the laws of his time.)He did not address each of the laws separtely to be recorded but gave his full intent of the law and the consequences of that law.

I wouldn't like living in a country that killed children. Yes, what a very few children can do is heinous, but "we" should not kill them. No, it's not simple, but I think it's clear (to me).

Mrproduce, are you saying that Jesus approved of the death penalty that was then handed to him, even though it was done unjustly? Doesn't that strike you as being just a teensy bit ironic?

Well Eric, you have asked the question that so many people have asked over the ages. Why did Jesus die on the Roman cross?
It is not ironic that Jesus accepted the death penalty that was , yes unjustly in the eyes of man, but was just to Him since it was for our justification. Justification (just as if I had never sinned). While he came to fulfill the law, he also came to fulfill prophecy made by the Prophets of the Old Testament. He also came to do away with the continual need to offer the blood
sacrifice of a lamb. He became that final sacrifice as the Lamb of God,(He went before his accusers as a Lamb before the slaughter and uttered not a word) when he bore the sins of the world, my sin and your sin. In the Old Testament days, the lambs blood sacrifice would cover their sin for the year. By offering up and accepting this sacrifice they were justified for another year, even though they were directed to continue to offer up prayers for forgiveness, just as we are today.
Yes,he could have come down with the two malefactors, the ones who were guilty and who were crucified with him down from the cross , but then we would still be offering up the blood sacrifice of the lamb each year.
Jesus was not forced upon the cross but freely laid down his life for us, each of us who will hear his word and believe that he died for our sin and freely confess that belief with our mouth. Since it is the gift of God, there is nothing that we can do to earn it. After all do we earn gifts that are given to us? It is given as a gift through the grace of God and is totally undeserved by any of us.
It is just as simple as I stated above Eric, hear, believe and confess that Jesus died for our sin. Nothing more, nothing less.

His death was not ironic but necessary.

As a Quaker, I believe that a life should never be taken...that includes the State taking a life. The fellow above who used the Bible to "prove" that Jesus supported the death penalty is doing selective reading.

Fundamentalists, whether Islamic, Jewish or Christian, take the Bible literally. And that is what has gotten us into all the trouble we are in right now with Iraq and the Middle East. The bombing, killing and other horrible events are all done because the fundamentalist god demands justice...retribution.

Jesus said to love our enemies...to pray for them. Now some may think that Jesus meant to love them then kill them but I believe that is just not true.

Apart from religious reasons for being anti-death penalty, one only needs to look at the racial and class makeup of people on death row. If you are white and rich, you can afford the best lawyers to avoid the death penalty. If you are poor and a person of color, you are MUCH more likely to get the death penalty.

The death penalty is a touchy subject. I pray that God would grant me the grace to hold fast to my beliefs even if my parents, my spouse or a friend were murdered.

I am firmly anti-death penalty, however I can sympathize and understand the feelings of those who have had loved ones murdered. Following Jesus is not easy...forgiveness is the hardest thing in the world sometimes. But Jesus calls us to carry the cross (even in the face of grave injustice) for there can be no crown if there is no cross.

Dear Craig,
You are to be commmended for your beliefs and I in no way will condem you for them. I ask however that you re-read my reply to Eric who asked if Jesus approved of the death penalty in leiu of the fact that he was being condemned to death. My answer, Craig, was "It is not ironic that Jesus accepted the death penalty that was , yes unjustly in the eyes of man, but was just to Him since it was for our justification." My statement was to point out, and if you will continue reading, that Jesus accepted his sentence for reasons other than proving or disproving the right or wrong of the death penalty. It was all in the plan of the Almighty God that Jesus would die on the cross as the atonement for our sins.
I have taken nothing selective in any of the post here. I have taken what I have said in the full context of the Word of God which is not to be added to nor taken away from.
Yes, Jesus did say to love our enemies and do good to those who spitefully use you. But he also said, The wages of sin is death. To take what the word of God says as His Word,infallible, without error is not what has gotten us in trouble Craig. It is those who would twist and pervert that Word to suit their own purposes that has brought us to where we are today. It certainly is not the Word of the Living God that has done it. Jesus addressed the Scribes and Pharises on twisting his word and taking only that which they wanted to use in Matthew 23. He also tells them of the consequesces of doing such. To pick and choose only those words that suit an agenda is fundamentalism. The jihadist are doing just that to justify their terriorist activity. The Jerry Falwellins do the same thing. It is called legalism and in the above Chapter sited you can read what Jesus had to say on that subject. You will also find the basis for your own belief in promoting peace which Jesus also taught.
So Craig , I have no agenda to condemn your belief and have not,as I stated in the beginning attempted to add to the Scripture or take away from it to address Eric's question.
I believe Craig, that all of God's Word is true, or none of it is. The Word says, That God is not man that he can lie. If God can not lie then his word must be taken as truth. Peace and blessing on you and your house.

Mr. Produce said, "To take what the word of God says as His Word,infallible, without error is not what has gotten us in trouble Craig."

While I respect your understandings and know from where you come with this statement (for I once belived it myself), I humbly disagree. This literalist thinking has been the thing that has gotten us all into trouble. Just look around at the terror done in the name of fundamentalist religion. Look at the history of fundamentalism and the fruit it bears.

I suggest that one does indeed read the Bible as you say and take it literally...as God's word. My suspecion is that, if one were honest, the type of God portrayed in some of the Bible would not be worth worshiping. Fortunatly, the Bible is an inspired book written by humans to explain thier lives and the happenings surrounding them.

This inspiration did not stop when the cannon was set (and was it really ever set?). God's inspiration...God's still small voice, can be heard in our own hearts. We can experience God just as the writers of the Bible experienced God.

An invite...John Shelby Spong will be in Greensboro on May 1st, sponsered by New Garden Friends Meeting and a number of other congregations. Please come out and hear what Spong has to say. You may disagree with what he says, but come hear him and judge for yourselves if what he says is truth.

While I do not call in doubt my conservative/evangelical brothers' and sisters' faith, I do want people to know that not all Christians are fundamentalists. There are many (and the numbers are growing each day) that are people of the Spirit rather than people of the book.

Peace!

Craig, Thank you for your civil discourse but to finish reading my post and seeing that I said:To pick and choose only those words that suit an agenda is fundamentalism.
This Craig is what has gotten us into the mess we are in not taking God's word as it is written. I stated that the jhidist and the Falwellians are both guilty of this. When either of these groups use only the phrases they wish to support their agenda then we get into a mess.

"My suspecion is that, if one were honest, the type of God portrayed in some of the Bible would not be worth worshiping."
In His Word, which yes was given to inspired men to record, it shows that God is a loving God, a just God, a mercifuly God and yes a God of wrath.
It is all these things which make Him worthy of worship. An anology would be, who would you love more, a parent who give you no guidence so you just run wild no matter how harmful it is to you or one who gives you guidelines to go by and then brings correction when you disobey?

I do truely respect your beliefs Craig but must take issue that not all fundamentalist are nut case terriorist. Unfortunately some who appear to be fundamentalist are not such at all but are those who I mentioned that take only the parts of God's Word or what ever word they read and twist it to suit their own purposes.

Unfortunately Craig I do not live in Greensboro anymore but I would certainly entertain the idea of attending and hearing the speaker that you speak of. I am sure that I would come away more informed regardless if I agreed or disagreed with his opinions.

Thanks for being patient and open minded. Even if we do not see eye to eye on every issue we both seek to make the world a better place.