News-Record.com

I guess "one nation under (fill in the blank)indivisible (HA!), with liberty and justice for all."

I don't think "under God" needs to be removed. I think it's merely stating a fact: the U.S. was founded and established using Christian principles, morals and law. Even if those aren't true today, we can still point to the countries origins as being "under God."

You'd think that we've always had a "pledge of allegiance" in this country. Heck, you'd think it had the words "under God" in it from the start as well.

Neither is the case. Having an official pledge of allegiance was a fad started by a socialist preacher in the 1890's. Why we "need" such a thing is beyond me. The nation got along perfectly well for more than a century without one. One could argue that it was better off without it. At least in those days, we weren't trying to force our kids to make a promise they weren't equipped to understand, let alone necessarily keep all their lives.

Adding God into the mix was a political grandstand move that we should be ashamed of. Instead, people insist on embracing it as if it was the most sensible idea ever put into law. Having people fight over this is embarrassing. Get rid of the whole thing and teach the kids proper civics instead of making them memorize a meaningless chant.

Jason, seems to me the Framers might have invoked God somewhere in the Constitution if that was their intent. But they didn't, and for a good reason: Many of them were not, in fact, Christian, but Deists (Unitarians). The principles and practices encoded by the Constitution were much more a result of English legal practice than they were of any specifically Christian tenets or practices (that is, the principles may have parallels in Christianity, but they also have parallels in other religions, as well as secular institutions).

As for the phrase "under God," it was added in the 1950s during the so-called Red Scare, when political leaders of almost all stripes were seeking anything and everything to distinguish Our Way of Life from that of the godless Communists.

I personally think it matters much less what the Pledge of Allegiance (a contradiction to the notion of freedom, if you think about it) says than how we as individual Americans and as a nation act toward one another and toward other nations, which is probably the only reason I'm not being interviewed for a Supreme Court gig right now. :-)

But Jason, that is the point exactly. The ACLU and the far left don't want any remembrance of God in any part of this country. They only wish us to worship government as the provider of everthing.
They say to have "under God" infringes on the Liberty of a few. I claim that to exclude 'under God" infringes on my Liberty and the Liberty of the many. However to be politically correct, the few must always win.
May God have mercy on this country.

"But Jason, that is the point exactly. The ACLU and the far left don't want any remembrance of God in any part of this country."

Prove it. Give me a document from the ACLU that says this. If you can give me evidence that the ACLU is against all religious speech as you claim, fine. Otherwise, please be decent enough to admit that you're a liar.

Now isn't that interesting? Mr Produce drops in, tells a story about "the Big Bad Libruls" are trying to get rid of "any remembrance of God in any part of this country," yet when I ask him to expose the details of this horrible, unAmerican plot, he remains totally silent!

I wonder what the trouble could be? Perhaps he's afraid of publicly admitting that he "misspoke."

Man, I hate hearing from people who tell stories like this.

Excuse me Eric. Not all of us sit around a wait to see who is gonna respond to what one says. I have a life outside the blogs.
Eric, no one has to have a document to see that the ACLU is pushing and siding with anything to do with God in it. Just read the papers, turn on your local news, or CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC , heck even Fox and see just who is behind all the suits removing God from all things.
Eric just because you, as one of the few, object to having anything to do with God does not mean that I and the rather overwhelming majority agrees with your opinion and that of the ACLU and FAR LEFT.
And no Eric I am not a liar, you just hate when one speaks the truth concerning you pet peeves or pet agendas or groups backing such. And just for a point, I mentioned nothing about liberals, I stated the FAR LEFT and there is one heck of a difference in the two.

"Eric, no one has to have a document to see that the ACLU is pushing and siding with anything to do with God in it. Just read the papers, turn on your local news, or CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC , heck even Fox and see just who is behind all the suits removing God from all things. "

I see. So you actually in fact have no documentation saying that anyone wants to destroy religion in America. It looks like all you are doing is extending your fears to the extreme and assuming that you know what others are thinking. You say there's suits out ther to "remove God from all things." Where are they? That's all I asked for. List a single lawsuit -- JUST ONE -- that tries to do this thing.

"And no Eric I am not a liar, you just hate when one speaks the truth concerning you pet peeves or pet agendas or groups backing such."

So you claim that you have access to "the truth" about my agenda? How very omniscient of you. I sort of expected that you would do this. You can't produce any evidence to support your claim, but you stand by it anyway. All I asked for is ONE instance where the ACLU or any similar group has attempted to stifle all religious speech. But you can't because no one has even expressed that desire. My pet peeves extend EXCLUSIVELY to speech sanctioned by government. I have always supported free private expression in all venues. And so has, if you'll examine the record of the ACLU and Americans United, have these groups you accuse.

But the public record has no interest for you, does it? All you want to do is sit around, spew wild accusations and never admit that you're wrong. I asked you to do the decent thing, and either support your claim or admit you were wrong. Naturally, you have done neither.

Any suit brough under the guise of Seperation of Church and State which has been twisted to suit the agenda of those who seek to remove any mention of God in this country and is sponsored by the ACLU is a suit against the freedom of religion, not freedom from religion as some would interpret it to mean. The suit in mention is only one of the many which the ACLU take's the Godless society stand. Can you show different? If so please inform the rest of us who you consider misguided and ignorant. There are a dozen or more suits filed by the ACLU under this guise listed on even the ACLU website. You take what you wish of this Eric. Your position on God is plainly visible on your website and you never miss an opportunity to denounce God, ridicule anyone who states a christian point of view, denounce the Bible, (of course you have your own revised edition of that according to what I have read on your site and on these blogs.) You twist any subject on religion by taking most out of context and attempting to show that God has no place in any part of this society. Show me where I I am wrong on this Eric. You will not, and can not because those of us who have read your continuing rants against any form of God and religion other than "there is no God" know where you stand.
You go on believing what you wish Eric. Just do not attempt to cram the opinion of the few down the throat of the majority.

"Any suit brough under the guise of Seperation of Church and State which has been twisted to suit the agenda of those who seek to remove any mention of God in this country and is sponsored by the ACLU is a suit against the freedom of religion, not freedom from religion as some would interpret it to mean. The suit in mention is only one of the many which the ACLU take's the Godless society stand. Can you show different?"

Talk specifics. That's all I've been asking you for. What suit that the ACLU has participated in seeks to "remove mention of God" from the entire country? The only suits I'm aware of that the ACLU has been involved in have been ones asking to restrict the goverment's statements.

Or are you saying that you need the government to talk about God for you? Is that what you're whining about? With all the people and churches in this country that shout, broadcast, print, and display YOUR God 24/7 everywhere we go, do you actually think you need the government to help in the process?

I'm glad we don't live in a pure democracy. If you were really in as big a majority as you think, I would have been silenced and most likely executed for heresy years ago. You like the idea of mob rule because you're a member of the mob. It hasn't occurred to you that one day, you might need to be protected from the mob the way I am today. You'd do yourself (and a lot of your fellow citizens) a favor if you'd take a little time to learn a few things about civics.

Eric, I have only one comment to make to end this question of if the ACLU is against references to God in our society. "By their fruits you shall know them."

Are you aware that Francis Bellamy, a Baptist minister and socialist, wrote the pledge? It originally read "I pledge allegiance to my flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." Bellamy considered adding "equality" but ultimately decided his superiors would not approve given the opposition to equality for women and African Americans.

Bellamy was writing about national unity. He stated that his writing process "began with an intensive communing with salient points of our national history, from the Declaration of Independence onwards...”

In my opinion, the Pledge is about patriotism, not religion. The framers of the Constitution purposefully left out references to religion. The decision in 1954 to add "under God", while sincere, was politically motivated.