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I find it really difficult to take Mrs. Ciccone-Ritchie seriously. She's a celebrity. If she is indeed seeking spiritual truth, then I pray that she finds it. In the meantime, I don't find her offensive. Just sad. And lost.

I think it's such a waste of time and energy for peple to get all bent out of shape over how "holy" some person is. The old sage was just a man, like any other.

But what really gets to me is the fact that the person whose memory these people are defending against "desecration" was a Jewish mystic. I've talked with many mystics over the past several years, both Jewish and Christian. I seriously doubt any of them would be pleased to think that they would ever be considered "holy" in the sense that their name couldn't be uttered except under the correct circumstances.

Bloody ridiculous. These people ought to grow up and pay more attention to the real issues of importance, rather than arguing over this stuff. They sound like the guys who fought over how many angels could dance on the head of a pin. Grow up.

Headline from the link you posted, Nancy:
"Rabbi's fury at Madonna song lyrics"
(how can you take them seriously if they can't use apostrophes correctly?)

As for Madonna's song and the use of the word Isaac, referring to Isaac Luria, those rabbis quoted are not mainstream Israeli rabbinic authorities; they're as fringe as Madonna is.

What this really says is that NO ONE should dip into a religion, take only that piece that suits them, and adopt it as a personal ethic. Religion doesn't work that way; there's more to it than the "fun stuff" that lets you wear red string. Had she studied and learned, she might not have used his name -- as a matter of respect gained through knowledge -- but she might have, too. We'll never know because she didn't study and learn. She grabbed a brass ring for a fad, cult-ish moment and that's plain stupid. It makes as much sense as listening to say, Tom Cruise, opine about psychiatry.

"What this really says is that NO ONE should dip into a religion, take only that piece that suits them, and adopt it as a personal ethic. Religion doesn't work that way"

I beg to differ. The fact that all monotheistic religions have many different factions indicates that all followers of such religions do just that. So what if someone just dabbles and makes up their own mix of beliefs that suits them? If it was good enough for Gandhi, it should be good enough for the common man, eh?

Sure, nemo0037, you can create a personal ethic, but you can't call yourself an "X" if "X" is a religion that is multifaceted. You can call yourself an individualist with a personal ethic, which I believe in quite strongly. However, that's not what she did. She wants to be a Kabbalist. If you want to one, then you've got a lot of different levels of understanding to attain, not merely a superficial one. That was my point; sorry if I didn't make it clearly.

i agree with Sue. I don't know Madonna's heart, but I have a hard time watching celebrities hijack a religion and then use even a minimal affiliation to make money or bring attention to themselves.

"Sure, nemo0037, you can create a personal ethic, but you can't call yourself an "X" if "X" is a religion that is multifaceted... She wants to be a Kabbalist. If you want to [be] one, then you've got a lot of different levels of understanding to attain, not merely a superficial one."

So would you say the same thing to a Christian who just joined the faith? If ever there was a multi-faceted religion that holds many volumes of material for study, this would be it.

Good point, Eric. Only people like Madonna and Britney know that whatever they do draws attention, and you would think that if they chose to embrace a religion--and maybe this isn't fair --that they would delve beneath the superficial before announcing it to the world with a red wristband. Then again, maybe I'm not allowing them to be human.

Perhaps Madonna is simply acting like any new convert and telling people that she has found something that is good, hoping to encourage people to look into it themselves.

I bet millions of people have now heard this "holy" name and have done a little looking into this guy. And I also would wager that the old greybeards who are hoppin' mad that their hero is in a song have no problem with the extra attention.

Ain't religion a fun game? Twistin' the mind!

Perhaps the problem is that my understanding of what a "convert" is -- is very different from eric's. That's enough to end this conversation now for me; we're not talking about the same thing.

Yeah, Sue's not the first to decide there's no sense talking to me. Maybe some other time...