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No one can or should answer that question.

One can surmise that this person has chosen to ignore the parts of the Bible they find inconvenient. That's unfortunate.

"One can surmise that this person has chosen to ignore the parts of the Bible they find inconvenient."

In my experience, everyone in the Christian religion ignores parts of the Bible they don't like. What is interesting is the rationalizations they use when confronted with the conflict.

So... what part(s) of the Bible do you ignore, James? And why?

I ask because with each new group finding 'clarity' or making firm its stand on homosexuality, it says to me that lots of you are thinking about it, and many of you would answer yes.

While there is a litany of sins listed in the Scripture, homosexuality included, it is not the individual sin that sends a person to his/her eternal destiny. God provided, from before the beginning of the earth, the absolution for sin through the death, burial and resurredtion of His Son, Jesus Christ. He gave to us a freewill to decide our own destiny.
The only sin that condemns mankind to eternal separation from God, is the rejection of Jesus Christ as their personal savior.
Jesus said that if you will confess me before mankind, then I will confess you(knowing you as one of my own) before my Father who is in heaven. If you deny me before mankind, then I will deny you (knowing you as one of my own)before my Father.

Jesus also said that if you love me, then you will keep my sayings(my commandments, my directions and those of the Father for we are one, to you on how to live) So then let each one answer this question in their own mind, in their own way. Is what I am doing, is the way I am living, in line with the confession I have made in my belief in the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord of my life?

It will then not be us who are standing in judgement but the person who takes their stand , one way or the other, who will then answer for themselves when they stand face to face with God Almighty.

OK, first I take umbrage with those that state that "homosexuality" is among the "litany of sins listed in scripture."

I have stated previously and will continue to do so; homosexuality is a 19th century word. Inserting same into a pre-1st/1st century document is erronous! Doing so invaldates the document. How can we, in the 21st century, say that a 19th century word is what the writer was referencing?

When renowned scholars of Hebrew and Greek have been consulted on the "bashing passages," they are perplexed as to an exact interpretation. Therefore, we should tread lightly as well.

It would do every person well to read/reread the teachings of Jesus the Christ and strive to follow those, rather than those of the SBC, etc. A far better life could be lived if that were done.

And for those who like to alienate GLBT people, check the suicide statistics! Can those people live their lives comfortably knowing that they could have very well aided in someone taking his or her own life?

I can speak this from a personal view; I know what the words can do. However, not everyone has a good friend that will walk him/her through the long valley of dispair. Those are the ones who make up the statistics to which I refer.

Think about those lives that are lost and then tell me that it is ok to "punish" a group for its acceptance of a GLBT person!

Shalom

Darryl, you have said,

"I have stated previously and will continue to do so; homosexuality is a 19th century word. Inserting same into a pre-1st/1st century document is erronous! Doing so invaldates the document. How can we, in the 21st century, say that a 19th century word is what the writer was referencing?"

I am not seeking to enter the debate, I will only post Romans 1...technically the word may not be used but the concept is surely there.

26For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Darryl need to go back and re- read the Bible instead of having someone tell him what is written there.These are not bashing scriptures they are the spoken words of a living God, or do you deny that also. Darryl, you need to know the real answers that are written there for there will be a final exam.

Thank you brian for those scriptures and there are many more both in the Old and New Testament as well which call what is described in todays language as homsexualism an abomination in the eyes of God. Did you ever read that anywhere Darryl, or did someone tell you that it's not really written there or you don't have to believe that part.

There is a solution Darryl for those who you claim commit susiside because they are condemned by others. I submit to you that they commit susiside because of their own confusion and lack of direction. There is a solution and that is through Jesus Christ. He spoke that He came to set the captive free, to break the bonds of sin and to tear down the strongholds which the "enemy" (satan) has set up.
Only through Jesus Christ can the captive be free and be free of the things which would come against him to seek out to rob, steal, kill and destroy, even their very life.

I do not condemn anyone Darryl, I only tell them what God has to say about their lifestyle. He ,God, states that I must love every person but He does not say I have to love their ways. That's the stand I take, and I stand on the Word of God as it is written not as how someone decides to tell me what is real and what is not.

I would recommend a book to you and others Darryl, written by an Episcopal priest who in his youth was very famous and caught up in a homosexual lifestyle. His name is Father Dave Foster,and the book is called "Sexual Healing". His website is Masteringlife.org. Not only does he write about homosexual lifestyles but other sexual problems as well so please don't think it is only some nobody preaching about the gay lifestyle. He does not preach , he only presents facts that he has gathered along with others over many years of research. We have found the book to be very helpful in dealing with family members who have suffered from a variety of sexual problems including homosexuality. We are personnaly acquainted with Bro. Dave since my wife has edited some of his books and other writings. I beleive you would find what he has to say very enlightening.

Ignore? None. Don't live-up-to? Too many to count.

The difference is that i know the many places that i have problems and try daily to not do the things i know i shouldn't. Why? My God asks that of me.

It's a lie, not acceptance, to tell someone to come to Christ, trust in Him for salvation and continue in your sin.

JER III sounds as if you and I have the same problem that the Apostle Paul had: Romans 7:18-19 (NKJ)
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.

He goes on to say later in the chapter, "Oh wretched man that I am. Who will deliver me from this body of death."

Nancy, you are correct, far too many "religious" groups would condemn people to "hell" for being gay/lesbian. God does not do that! Nor can any condemnation be found in the teachings of Jesus the Christ condemning same.

I do not debate, I state truth. The Romans passage is taken out of context in the previous post. One should read the entire passage in CONTEXT for a better understanding. One need also gain an historical context for the time period of the writing and find out what was happening in worship practices for Paul to have written as he did.

And for the suicide reference, those person's who attempt/complete suicide they are seeking to be freed. They realize that they cannot change who they are and to end the agonizing pain which they suffer continually, they find not other recourse than to end their life. They only want the pain to stop. When all they may hear is how they are not loved by God and cannot experience God in any form or fashion unless they change who God created them to be, they find themselves in the most agonizing of places. I speak of what I know here!

As for condemining, that is not my place to condemn anyone. I do not state what "God" has, as a person of Inner Light, God is still speaking today. Therefore, I speak of what God says to me on a continual basis.

And if one desires to compare Episcopal authors, how about J. S. Spong?

I know of peole who struggle and have struggled, from many faith traditions. These people have thankfully survived their "dark night of the soul," and come through. This happened even though they were bombarded with negative aspects of God. Yet, in the silence, God spoke and they responded and God engulfed with God's love and acceptance.

Shalom

"Ignore? None."

Oh really? So you try to avoid all the things Leviticus says to avoid, along with gay sex, and make sure anyone you see breaking those laws knows they are sinning? You must be a busy fellow.

Tell me... do you also urge your fellow Chrisians to burn books the way they did in Acts? Do you support slavery as the New Testament says you ought to? Are you trying to not give any thought for your future and wishing you were dead? Believe me... all of this is in the Bible and a whole lot more. Be sure you don't ignore ANY of it!

Darryl, the verse in Romans you refered to has nothing to do with homosexuality. It has to do with what James wrote about not always doing the things that we should and doing the things we should not but yet striving to do each day what is right. And yes Paul is refering to the law but then his writing throughout the book of Romans refers to that subject and to his struggle with that since he had been educated in the Jewish law and now no longer lived under the Jewish law but under the teaching and direction of the one who came to fulfill that law, not to replace it.Her speaks of and is trying to make the point of living in the Spirit and not living in the flesh,as the old carnal man, who mind is on the things of the earth rather than those of spiritual nature and the struggle thereof. It is not out of context for what it was written for. I suggest you start reading and understanding what is written and how it is written before you attempt to use it as an attack weapon. That unfortunately seems to be your method. Take one line, one sentence and use it to attack instead of basing a discussion on the entire context of what one has written. You did the same with my previous post by taking only the first sentence and proceeding to attack. It is eviedent that when you do such that you have no real solid background on which to base you discussion.

AS to the reference to suicide. No Darryl no one can free themselves from that which torments them. If you had read or understood what I wrote then you would have found that I gave the answer and pointed to the one who can deliver them from this torment and set them free. HIs name is Jesus Christ. Believe me I know of what I speak here also. Not perhaps in the same way but in other forms of bondage from which I have been set free.
God continues to speak through His Word today just as clearly as He did when it was originally spoken. It is through His Holy Spirit that we are given the ability to understand what He is saying in His written word. Yes, God does continue to speak in various ways to each of us who know His voice and we have to know Him in a very intimate way inorder to know his voice. Those who don't know him in such manner can not hear His voice for their "ears" are blocked. (I speak of spiritual ears not physical ears, for spiritual ears are the way we hear God's voice). We may hear God's word calling for us to turn from our sin through our physical ears when another is speaking God's word to that point and then it is the Holy Spirit that convicts us and allows us to act upon which we have heard. The danger in depending on just what we hear with our ears is that there are three voices which speak continuely and we must be sure that what we hear lines up with the Word which God has spoken. The three voices are the voice of the human spirit, the Voice of God and the voice of Satan. Satan will often attempt to use the words of God ,because he knows them well, inorder to deceive, the rob, to destroy and to kill. He will use the words of God to get us to go along with anything and stand for nothing of substance. He knows that when we are compromised in our spirit that he then has a foothold on which to continue to deceive us and lead us farther from the truths that God's word contains.

AS far as the Rev. Spong goes, he has no real background on this subject at least from what I can conclude. I do not beleive that the Rev Spong was ever sexually addicted or lived in a gay lifestyle as did Bro Dave. I also find that Bro DAve does not attempt to pervert the Word of God as I found the Rev Spong to do. If you will do some research, he is even frowned upon among his own denomination for his what they deem heritical statements. I find one who denies the virgin birth of Jesus Christ to be less than reliable and I beleive that the Rev Spong leans to that thought. But then he is a different subject for a different thread. I would hope that you would at least take the time to look at Bro. Dave's website and then read what is there, if you can find the book, read that and then decide if what he says makes sence.
With this I bid you a good evening for I have study to do.

Eric , when you choose to attack someones statement, please give references to what you are saying inorder to remain crediable. Everyone here knows that you were once a believer and have been deceived and lead away from God's word by the things of the flesh or because of them. It is so sad to see someone so angry at God for whatever reason. But I can tell you Eric, God says it's ok for you to be angry with him, He only asks that you shut up and stop your ranting long enough to hear what He has to say to you. I know this to be a fact, been there , done that.

Just because Eric's viewpoint is known, does not give anyone the right to verbally abuse him. Furthermore, what Eric has asked are legitimate questions. Yet, I see no one making even the least attempt to respond to those questions.

Now, regarding my "attacking," I find that in poor taste. It seems that is exactly what is happening to to me. Because I do not follow the "party" interpretative line, I am attacked. Yet, when this happens on the opposite side, there is no problem. Oh how the inadequacies are accepted.

Am I to understand that God only speaks through "His Word?" Did I read that comment correctly? I definitely do not want to only "pick & choose" comments on which to respond. However, I most definitely need clarity on this specific comment.

While Spong may not have any "known" sexual struggles, he is extensively qualified to comment on scripture.

Shalom

No where did I abuse Eric only offer a word to him concerning his anger which he seems to display so often against others and anything to do with God.

Darryl there is nothing to clarify, you need to do as I have repeatedly said, go back and read carefully. You seem to skip over parts that suit you or that you do not wish to read. No where did I say that God speaks through his word only, I said that God still speaks through his word and that he also speaks in other ways as well. "Yes, God does continue to speak in various ways to each of us who know His voice and we have to know Him in a very intimate way inorder to know his voice. Those who don't know him in such manner can not hear His voice for their "ears" are blocked. (I speak of spiritual ears not physical ears, for spiritual ears are the way we hear God's voice". Now that is what I said.
You are not attacked Darryl only your lack of knowledge is being subjected to questioning.

Darryl if you had a heart condition and needed surgery would you go to a foot doctor to have him do the surgery. I would think not! I rest my case as to the qualification of Rev Spong Bob and Bro. Dave.
Your argument on that point does not even stand. It is not even a strawman argument it is so lacking.

Sorry Darryl, you lack the knowledge to continue this discussion for your mind is closed, your spiritual ears are not opened and you lack a teachable spirit.It seems that all I have done tonite is have to repeat what I have written before. I hope that someday you will find the true light of the world and that is Jesus Christ. It would seem that you deny His word that does not suit you and only accept what someone who has some earthly credentials that you deem high and worthy. Please do continue to study but also be open to understand what is being said. If you can't understand what I write here , how can you understand what God says in His Word.
My break time is over and I need to get back to the books.

Mr. Produce, Eric is abused when his questions are discounted and never acknowledged. This is due to only addressing parts of him posts, as well as my own. The abuse happens because like I, Eric present truth and is lambasted for doing such.

While I failed to fully recognize the extent of what had been posted regarding God speaking today, the ensuing post only gives validity to the basic context of what I had summized. There can only be one belief for some people and if one should have a differing belief structure (minority), then the one with the differing belief structure (minority) is wrong. This is the reason Anne Hutchinson and her family were driven from the Massachusettes Colony by the Puritans into the wilderness during a hard winter. She was left to perish and some of her family were murdered by hostile Native Americans. Roger Williams is another example of this same religious tyranny. Thankfully, God saw this oppression and Williams was able to found a TRUE free religious colony!

The ending parargraph on the posting of 9:37 PM is clear, plain, and classic example of Christian religious right-wing fundamentalism. I have refrained from using any stereo-typical names until now. However, I feel that I must state this here for any and all who read this blog to know a name for this oppressive line of Christian thought.

It saddens me to to think that someone feels that I lack knowledge to continue discussion. However, it would seem that the terms used to describe me (mind is closed, spiritual ears are not opened and lac of teachable spriit) are manifestations of the traits of the very person who initially wrote them. I say this because there seems to be a complete lack of effort to examine anything that might suggest that the "traditional" belief could even possibly be wrong.

I come from a background with this "traditional" belief. However, through God's wonderful Grace and love, I heard God speak to me and learned that what I had been told for many, many years was not correct. God spoke through others and directly to me.

And for the assumption to be made that "someday you will find the true light of the word and that is Jesus Christ" is very closed-minded! How can that be determined just from my thoughts and belief on one specific issue? And then to have the comment made, "It would seem that you deny His word that does not suit you and only accept what someone who has some earthly credentials that you deem high and worthy" is asinine. That undoubtedly deals with my reference to J. S. Spong. (BTW, the "Spong Bob" comment is only another example of belittling and attacking those with whom one disagrees.) I never noted any credentials of J. S. Spong. I only noted that "he is extensively qualified to comment on scripture." Just because I made that comment does not mean that I hold him as infallable.

Yet it would seem that the authors that others deem worthy are just and fine to be respected.

As for being open and understanding, I feel that I am to most degrees. However, when presented with the errors of my former belief structure, I must adamantly stand firm in where God has led me at this current time.

As for understanding what has been written in these postings, I have! And yes, I do even have a comprehendible understanding of what God says in His Word.

I can only hope that what I have written here may help some struggling GLBT person who finds her/his self in that most dreaded "long night of the soul." And that these words will give hope and encouragement so that NO MORE GLBT lives will be lost to the right-wing Christian fundamentalists.

Shalom

From Titus 3:

"At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another.

But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy.

He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone.

But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.

You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."

------------------------

Y'all, please stop fighting. Love, Missy

Darryl, where you come up with all this twisting of what I have said is beyond me. It is not I that has spoken much of what I have written but I have taken much of what I have written directly from the Scripture. He that has ears let him hear (again speaking of spiritual ears).
Missy is correct. I have spoken all that is necessary to you. If you wish to continue to twist what I have said then so be it.
As is directed in the scripture. Matthew 10:14
And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.

With that I bid you farwell on this subject.

Missy, it may be considered fighting by some. However, I too must take a stand; in the positive realm. I do this because others have taken a stand; in the negative realm.

What troubles me is that when someone takes a stand which is opposite from ole tradition, that person is viewed as indifferent and divisive. Yet, I am reminded of the Hebrew prophets and even Jesus the Christ himself. That is where I find solace! I know that what I am sharing is correct and will continue to do so.

Shalom

Darryl...the fundamentalist American Taliban have spoken. You must obey for they only have the "truth". Don't worry...you're in good company. The same thing was said about African-Americans regarding how they should be "happy" to be slaves and be obiedient to their masters. The same thing was said about the Jews by the German State Church.

Another decade...another group to demonize. Hey, I'm interested in who the next victim of the American Taliban will be.

And, frankly, this whole debate on whether homosexuality is sin or not is getting tiresome. I know, lets debate gluttony and gossip!

Remember what Jesus said and taught and you'll be fine. Don't listen to our modern day Pharisee friends. We all know what Jesus had to say about them.