News-Record.com

I was only yesterday wondering what local Imams are saying about this. There hasn't been any news I've seen of American Muslims getting so bent out of shape that they're asking for heads to literally roll...

Even though many Muslims may not like the political cartoon of Mohammad I hope that it will help to create an honest dialogue between all people of faith. It would be a good time to discuss who Mohammad really was-the good and the bad-there is much written about Islam's prophet and some of it shows him in a negative light. This would also help Muslims to understand why Christians do not see Mohammad as the final prophet.

Course, we must recall that Christianity went through a period where they wouldn't tolerate others saying negative or even simply unorthodox things about their top icon, Jesus. There were whole wars fought, and untold troves of book were burned over who was "right."

I mention this because I know an awful lot of Christians who feel inclined to look down on Muslims over this trouble, hardly even realizing that the history of their own religion holds many stories of similar uncivilized behavior.

If my oft-failing memory serves, the aforementioned cartoon (with bomb/turban) was NOT one of the cartoons originally published by the Danish news outlet. They published illustrations for a children's book. The one cited by the writer was "added" to a mostly web-based collection.

In other words, the original perceived insult was related to cartoons that, by Western standards, don't seem very provocative. However, the addition of malicious cartoons has incited global rioting.

This isn't "Denmark's fault," nor is it the "fault" of observant Muslims. There has been political escalation on both sides and that's why I do not believe the discussion should be relegated to religious discussion. There's a heckuva lot of politics involved.

"This isn't "Denmark's fault," nor is it the "fault" of observant Muslims. There has been political escalation on both sides and that's why I do not believe the discussion should be relegated to religious discussion. There's a heckuva lot of politics involved."

Ain't that the truth! And since it has a lot of politics to it, you can be sure that it will only get worse before it gets better. I sometimes wonder if we as a species have enough brains to actually survive our stupidity...

Honestly, I would like to see the ACTUAL cartoons published by the Danish newspaper. I say this because I would like to actually see what is causing such an uproar.

I agree with what some others have said that there basically there is a line between being tolerant and being tolerant of intolerance. While I have no personal problems with people of Islamic faith, they, like myself, should learn to just not let the people that offend them in such manners as this "get under their skin."

And on the Christian side, the Hebrew Scriptures instruct people of faith to "make no graven image" of God. I believe that we have gone far beyond that one!

I believe that now all of the uproar is something to gain media attention and nothing else.

Shalom

I was not surprised Mr. Hammer chose the low road. His paper has become increasingly mired in self-aggrandizing, blatant jingoism. His reporters are openly biased. His devoted readership probably enjoys offending those who disagree with their vaunted free market capitalistism-at-all-costs (to the little guy) and damn-the-torpedoes tone. I was not aware he had a virulent anti-Muslim bias himself, with his roots and social ties going both in Christian and Jewish directions, I believe. But the N&R ombudsman was exactly right: by verbal descriptions, the images were superfluous IF someone merely wanted to know the identifying markers.

Mr. Hammer apparently is a closet aesthete: he thinks "art" shoould be shown and enjoyed (?) for its own sake; it defies verbal description. Unfortunately, editorial cartoons like these are clearly propagandistic, not aesthetic. Their goal is to provoke through semiotics, signs and symbols, not sheer formal visual beauty of compositional finesse.

Since I assume Mr. Hammer actually knows this, he is probably being less-than-fully-forthright.

Nancy,
The cartoon issue is not about freedom of expression vs freedom of religion or about blasphemy. The issue is about demonization.

The cartoons did not attack the dogma of Islam but depicted the Prophet as one who supports terrorism and suicide bombing.

A study of history shows us that the persecution of Native Americans, African slaves, African Americans, Jews (especially in Nazi Germany), Bosnians, Gujarati Muslims (India) and other similar persecution was always preceded by demonization.

Mr. Flemming Rose, the culture editor of the Danish newspaper that first published the cartoons has ties to Daniel Pipes (of the notorious Campus Watch- so much for freedom of expression), a well-known Islamophobe.

I am providing you some links for you to judge the appropriateness of the decision to run a demonizing cartoon in these times of growing hatred against Muslims.

The media should also do some research before making sweeping statements or agreeing with them -statements such as drawing a picture of Prophet Muhammad is considered blasphemous by all Muslims- they are not accurate.

Thank you for your time.

Shaik Ubaid, MD

References:

"Here in America, Native Americans were portrayed as savages, so when they were killed, people wouldn't feel as bad about it," Ubaid said. "The same with slavery; even the New York Times at one time depicted African-Americans as apes, as less than humans. They would not do that now, so why is the clock being turned back for Muslims now?"

http://northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2MDYmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY4ODMwNTY

meXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkz

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More Than 1,000 Protest Cartoon Depiction of Prophet

By KAREEM FAHIM

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/18/nyregion/18protest.html?_r=1&oref=login

More than 1,000 Muslims gathered yesterday for a rally and prayer session across the street from the Danish Consulate in Manhattan, protesting cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad that have set off a series of violent demonstrations around the world since their first publication in Denmark.

The rally, billed by the organizers as a stand against the vilification of Muslims, was considerably larger than another one this month, drawing South Asian, Arab, African-American and other Muslims to a plaza a block from the United Nations as the sun peeked out after a morning of rain.

In a program that lasted several hours, the speakers talked about the responsibility that comes with free speech and their reverence for the prophet to a peaceful crowd that included families with small children and student groups.

"We were tired of demonization," said Dr. Shaikh Ubaid, a spokesman for the Muslim Leadership Council, which organized the rally. "There is a rise of Islamophobia in Europe. More and more Americans think negatively about Islam." The depiction of the prophet as a terrorist mirrored insults that in the past were heaped on other immigrant populations here, including blacks, Jews and Native Americans, he said.

Today, he added, the insults against those groups are widely considered to be taboo.

Such Depictions Have Been Used as a Weapon Against Oppressed Peoples for Centuries
An American Indian's View of the Cartoons
By ROBERT ROBIDEAU

http://counterpunch.org/robideau02092006.html

Don't Be Fooled: This Isn't an Issue of Islam versus Secularism
By ROBERT FISK
For the Danish cartoon to be dumped on top of this fire is dangerous indeed

http://counterpunch.org/fisk02062006.html

Mohammad cartoon protests aren't unique to Islam - Yahoo! News

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060212/wl_nm/religion_cartoon_faiths_dc_1

Rotten in Denmark
Flemming Rose and the clash of civilizations

http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=8512

Hate and fear are created out of thin air by the most skillful means, and stereotypes take the place of reality as the world prepares for war. That's what this is all about: the hate propaganda emanating from certain quarters in Europe and the U.S. amounts to preparations for war just as much as the manufacture of arms and the mobilization of armies

* The Danish newspaper continues to grant copyright permission of its objectionable cartoons to other European newspapers.

* The latest season of Islamophobia in Denmark started with the printing of Danish Queen's autobiography in May last year which called on the country "to show our opposition to Islam"

* The Neo-con newspaper which commissioned cartoons depicting the Prophet as terrorist, refused to run drawings lampooning Jesus, three years ago saying that "they will provoke an outcry"

* Section 142 of the Norwegian Penal Code provides for punishment for any person "who publicly insults or in an offensive manner shows contempt for any religious creed...or for the doctrines or worship of any religious community lawfully existing here." However, these laws provided no protection to the Muslims who despite their sizable populations in Europe carry no political weight in the European democracies.

* One of the Danish newspaper's editor which commissioned depicting the Prophet as terrorist visited Daniel Pipes http://kurtnimmo.com/?p=211 who says that Muslim immigrants are "brown-skinned peoples cooking strange foods and not exactly maintaining Germanic standards of hygiene."

I often wonder why it is that some folks prefer to post entire articles of stuff they find on the web, rather than just saying what they think in their own words. Maybe I'm not familiar enough with this medium yet. I just think it's preferable to converse on a subject rather than get a series of pre-packaged stuff.

Oops... My bad. I failed to read the small section at the top of the Ubaid post.

"A study of history shows us that the persecution of Native Americans, African slaves, African Americans, Jews (especially in Nazi Germany), Bosnians, Gujarati Muslims (India) and other similar persecution was always preceded by demonization."

What I find interesting about this case is that demonization has been rampant all around. I seem to recall that the US was commonly called "The Great Satan" in many parts of the Muslim world. Of course, when you are looking at a culture that calls all aliens "infidels," you can't help but assume that it is built around xenophobia.

At this stage of affairs, I think it's hardly worth discussing "who started it." The fact is that the house is showing signs of burning down around us. What we need is a serious dose of water, not an investigation into blame. That can come later.

I just read that a powerful Iranian official and others, including Pope Benedict XVI, are renewing calls for an end to the violence (45 people dead!). Eric is right, we can figure out the cause of the fire later...where should our efforts go?

Eric, I yet again applaud your insightfulness!

The blame game is just that, a game. Regardless of who "started" something, it is up to those of us who remain to END the uproar and seek to bring a semblance of peace once again.

Shalom

Actually, what we are seeing in these violent, even deadly, reations from the Muslim world is their attempt at pschological jihad: terror, threat, intimidation - since they do not yet have cruise missiles and the bomb. The Danish cartoonist was simply doing what Western journalists and cartoonists have been doing for ages: lampooning everyone with their irreverent jabs; sometimes unjustly, and sometimes pressing the truth with great effectiveness.

Religion, because it takes itself much too seriously most of the time, needs a good jolt every now and then. But we accept this MO; Muslims do not. It just underscores their extreme legalism. It has elements of true relgion, but as a whole is not. But, we have our fair share of legalism and relgion in the Christain fold too. True Christianity is grace and Holy Spirit love and joy. There is a world of difference.

Dr.Ubaid needs to get his quotes correct or find a site that does not change them or repeat them to suit their agenda.
"that Muslim immigrants are "brown-skinned peoples cooking strange foods and not exactly maintaining Germanic standards of hygiene." The quote made in 1990 was actually this: Western European societies are unprepared for the massive immigration of brown-skinned peoples cooking strange foods and maintaining different standards of hygiene...All immigrants bring exotic customs and attitudes, but Muslim customs are more troublesome than most." (National Review, 11/19/90)
The article linked by Dr.Ubaid, only repeats the charges stated by Wahida Valiante, the VP of the CIC and published on it's website "Friday Bulletin". The article "Worth Repeating" accused Mr. Pipes of being a follower of Hitler and/or used tactics like Hitler. The Friday Bulletin issued an Apology and Retraction" In its June 10-05 edition.

It would seem that Dr. Ubaid has a vendetta against Mr. Pipes for speaking rather bluntly about Muslims. He fails to mention that many non-radical Muslims agree with him as is demonstrated here: Others, including Muslims, defended the appointment. Akbar Ahmed, professor of international relations and Ibn Khaldun chair of Islamic studies at American University, asked "Who is better placed to act as a bridge than the scholar of Islam?" Pakistani-American Tashbih Sayyed, editor of the Muslim World Today and the Pakistan Times, called Pipes "a Cassandra. He must be listened to. If there is no Daniel Pipes, there is no source for America to learn to recognize the evil which threatens it. Historians will write later that Pipes saved us. There are Muslims in America that are like Samson; they have come into the temple to pull down the pillars, even if it means destroying themselves." Sheikh Dr. Ahmed Subhy Mansour, a former visiting fellow in the human-rights program at Harvard Law School stated "We Muslims need a thinker like Dr. Pipes, who can criticize the terrorist culture within Islam, just as I usually do.

Could it be that Dr. Ubaid does not like Mr. Pipes for his stand on Israel? Pipes is also controversial in academia, where his conservative positions especially his strong support for Israel and his argument that Islamism is a threat to the West—"as the population of Muslims in the United States grows, so does antisemitism."

Or perhaps Dr. Ubaid agrees more in line with this group: Left Turn magazine, a radical left-wing publication, described Pipes as a "leading anti-Muslim hate propagandist.

Or perhaps Dr. Ubaid doesn't like Mr Pipes because of this: The Pipes were from well-off, assimilated Polish Jewish families that escaped from Poland in 1939.

I have read Mr. Pipes in several of the overseas papers that I have on line access to and have found him to be rather blunt but he is also fair in his presentations. He doesn't worry about who's toes he may step on and this perhaps does not endear him to many. He has taken on GWB as well as Arafat and others. Sound like a much different individual than the one that Dr.Ubaid seems to have such a distaste for.

Dr. Ubaids' post is a joke and another example of cause and effect history. Lets see just before slavery blacks were portrayed as less than human and American Indians were portrayed as savages and that is why those minorities were mistreated. Well doc you should look at the hate filled cartoons of the Arab world and the always present America the Great Satan chants of the rioting Muslims. If you call on satan to many times dont be surprised if he comes back to haunt you....

Just a few comments concerning todays Faith Matters section. First of all I have got to wonder what their teaching in our colleges and universities about history and religious faith in Western society.
In one swoop the articles author declares that "Eurocentric/Western Dominance and oppression must be dismantled" Why? because 9/11 and anti-cartoon violence are the result of "internalized oppression" of Muslims. And since few Muslims hold their own/or their religion accountable for any destructive behavior something else must be blamed.
I wonder if history classes still teach the fact that when one system of "oppression" is dismantled a worse system often takes its place. It appears that much of what occurs in the study if history is agenda driven; words like tolerance, oppression, genocide, homophobia, dismantle, Eurocentric and justice are tossed around like so many rocks, rocks which do little but cause damage.

Just a few days ago a Muslim student at UNC-angry with the way Muslims are being portrayed in West- attempted to run down and kill innocent students on the UNC campus. Is this just another form of internalized oppression?

The West doesn't have to portray Islam in a negative light, its followers do a great job of representing this religion of peace quite well!