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I heard Ms. Goldberg on "Fresh Air" last week. The tale she tells is ominous, indeed. If the powers that be continue to kowtow if not outright join up with the most radical "Christian Nationalists", we will rue the day. The idea seems to split between those who believe Jesus will come down and then the golden age will be upon us, and those who believe Christians must cleanse the world of infidels first, before Jesus returns. The former are dangerous because they may just firgure it's useless to try and amend anything in this life; the latter because they more actively seek, in their own words, "dominion".

Many of us have believed what Nancy's little article notes for several years at the very least. We have been call naysayers and poor losers. Now look who is speaking up!

Shalom

Truly said, Darryl. I have been reading all srts of news reports for several years about Senators and Representitives of both parties kowtowing to the likes of Pat Robertson and "Reverend" Moon, even taking part in a ceremony crowning Moon as some sort of savior.

These things are almost totally ignored by the standard media outlets. I can't help wondering why...?

Can you tell me what Christian groups say that the infidels must be cleansed from the earth before Jesus returns? There may be a scattered few farright groups who claim this just as there are those who say that there are only a certain number of places in heaven and those who say that they are the only one's going to heaven.
I believe that the great majority of Christians believe that the infidels will be take care of after the return of Jesus.

Kooks on the fringes there will be, both right and left, but the most scholarly and fiathful Christain expositors only reiterate what the Scripture says consistently throughout: that Jesus Christ (the promised Messiah) is Kin gof kings and Lord of lords, and that God has decreed that He alone reign in both heaven and earth, and that every knee shall bow and every tongue confess this eternal reality.

Yes, there is a lot of inferior pop theology and kooky ideas of potilical hegemony, etc. but although consistent biblical Christians cannot deny the ultimate victory of Messiah and the fulfillment of earth history according to biblical prophecy, they must not fall into the trap of "human fulfillment" of that which God alone will sovereingly accomplish. We have our part to play through declaring the Gospel and working to implement biblical principles in all of life - through legitimate means.

I am under the impression many PRE-millennial Christians fervently desire to see the vast majority of human beings converted to Christianity and thereby "cleansed" of their sins by the blood of Jesus. Or is that wrong? Maybe I have been misled. Perhaps these particular (there are others) right-wing Christians would be perfectly content to allow more and more Hindus to immigrate and build temples; for Buddhists to erect shrines; for Muslims to call out five times a day across the American suburbia?

In fact, all evangelical Christians of whatever eschatological stripe, (including myself – postmil) desire to see “all people come to the knowledge of the truth;” but the premil dispensationalist group believe in an imminent “rapture” and therefore have a kind of exaggerated urgency about conversion, missions etc., focusing primarily on just getting “people saved.” I personally believe that they are the victims of an erroneous interpretation of Matt. 24, Revelation and other prophetic passages as well.

This fanciful school of eschatology has given rise to the evangelistic, but theologically erroneous “Left Behind” series, as well as a host of antichrist speculations, and many failed projections during the 20th Century regarding the return of Christ. Their error can be seen by just a brief study of Matt. 24, which is so obviously referring to the “coming” of Christ in judgment in 70 A.D. They see it as either all referring to the final appearing of Christ or as a kind of “double fulfillment.”

Their fantastic interpretations of Revelation are even more confused and imaginative. But you atheists and liberals should like their rapture idea, because you get rid of them all when it occurs. Not so with us postmillennialists; we are here for the long term, participating in the gradual expansion of the Messianic reign.

It is only to be expected that those who reject Messiah and His Word would seek to denigrate Him, and those who honor Him as Lord and King. Extreme characterizations and outright distortions are part of the mix. Unfortunately, as I have said before, there is a lot of grist for the mill; which in no way detracts from Christ Himself or the truth of Gospel; the Da Vinci Code notwithstanding.

"But you atheists and liberals should like their rapture idea, because you get rid of them all when it occurs."

Um... you do realize that atheists don't much care about the "rapture idea" because we have no expectation of it actually being on the way... right?

However, the rapture does give some good material for bumper stickers:

"Come the rapture, can I have your car?"
"If you can read this, you were not raptured."

Things like that.

But seriously, the folks who are expecting Jesus' return any day now are scary because that expectation colors everything they do. And when they get into positions of power, they're downright scary. For example, there was James Watts' declaration as Secretary of the Interior that caring for the environment was unimportant, since the end of the world was near, and God would set things right anyway. All we need now is for a world leader to get it into his mind that what is needed more than anything is to get rid of the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, so that the Temple of Ezekiel can be built to pave the way for the Second Coming.

Yeah... that move would go over Real Well.

My colleagues would find it amusing to hear me tagged as "liberal". I am no right-winger, but I have stodgy New England-German blood that bristles over many of the same issues some "conservatives" would find equally appalling. One's politics may be tied to one's religion, but it is also possible to come to certain shared stances without agreeing on divinity. Although I don't find arguments for any god convincing, I do not intend to denigrate the teachings and example of ethical life of Jesus, as described in various scriptures...even Dan Brown's! As far as I can tell, this book doesn't malign Jesus' character. He was/is and had a great character.

Fanciful schools of eschatology...

I agree with you, Eric; (can’t believe I’m saying that) those who have bought into the rapture – dispensationalist-antichrist “theology” have done much damage to the cause of Christ and to sound exegesis of Scripture. The idea of being yanked out any minute is all based on faulty interpretations and bizarre historical visions. I reject any idea that Christians should not be actively involved in ALL areas of social, scientific and political betterment of society; albeit from a biblical perspective; which was generally the case before dispensationalist theology gained the ascendancy in many of the revivalist prophetic circles the latter half of the 19th century and into the 20th. Christians pioneered the way in such efforts as anti-slavery, benevolent institutions, et al.

Rapturist dispensationalism was also a major factor in the development of the fundamentalist enclave mentality during the first half of the 20th century. Not only did they circle the wagons in the face of the attacks of liberal higher critics, but figured on a speedy removal when the rapture occurred. And the neo-pentecostal/charismatic movement, so dominant on TV today, is heavily invested in fundamentalist/ dispensationalist thinking as well, which only compounds error. But then, ALL movements and isms have their misinterpreters, extremists and fringe thinkers. The fact that Christianity ranges over the entire spectrum of human society almost insures that you will find variant, extreme and even erroneous manifestations. So I’m glad you see that the teachings and person of Christ are not coterminous with “medianity.”

I believe that staying very close to the center of creedal orthodoxy, especially in its classical Reformed expression, assures a relevant and complex theological position; and together with a postmil view of history, provides for compassionate, yet uncompromising, social reformation, political activism and responsible evangelism. Orthodoxy is, by definition, also opposed to all departures from biblical morality, affirming that only God’s ways, revealed in Scripture, eventuate in true life, justice and peace.

To say that mainstream christianity was in opposition to slavery is extremely false. In actuality it was its largest supporter and it was only fringe groups that preached abolishment. Now think of it this way, virtually everyone at the time professed christianity. I cant think of anyone who would actively profess to be atheistic or agnostic. While Lincoln did appear to have written an anti-christian book and was a disbeliever in the divinity of christ he didnt preech there positions. And evidence points at the idea that he genuinely converted to christianity (possibly maintaining a disbelief in divinity of christ but not confirmed) Point being there were VERY FEW ABOLITIONISTS Lincoln wasnt really regarded as one. And virtually everyone was christian therefore its safe to say american abolitionists were (largely) christian. You might want to brush up on the bible though. Slavery is exceptionaly barbaric, yet jesus tacitly endorses it by recommending you should only beat a slave as much as they deserve and not more than they deserve (trouble finding the quote but other NT passages should enlighten). The first group of people to want to radically abolish slavery in the modern era were the french "freethinkers" during their revolution.

Genesis: 6:9 - 7:1 and 9:20-9:25
Largely the basis for so much christian support of slavery in America

Genesis: 17:12-13 17:23 17:27 - Tacit support by "gods word" of slavery

Exodus: 21:7-8 Rules for selling your daughter into slavery

Exodus: 21:20-21 Its ok to beat a slave to death as long as they linger more than a day before dying as they are your property

Leviticus: 25:44-46 Telling the Isrealites to make slaves of all thier "heathen" neighbors.

Ephesians: 6:5 NT support of slavery
If you spent some time you would find many more passages in support of slavery.

1 Peter: 2:18 Do as your masters say regardless of if they are good men or not.

In all honesty I bet you are a very nice person, most christians (actually all people i meet)usually are. But you seem reluctant to realize that your religion was dragged kicking and screaming into the modern world as something that resembles something that is moral.

Mike, your references are germane to the discussion, to be sure; but your application of them is lacking in contextual perspicacity and nuance. First of all, the Old Testament expression of the one Faith in “the Lord our God” is very much conditioned by the norms and practices of antiquity. There is certainly a progressive revelation and progressive application of God’s pure and ultimate truth. Polygamy was “allowed,” but is certainly not God’s model (Genersis 3, Ephesians 5 and I Timothy 3). There were societal forms which morphed significantly as history progressed and the liberation of Gospel truth pervaded the world. Even though some social norms, such as servitude, have been institutionally eradicated in Christian nations, people are still slaves to debt, ignorance and sin. Slavery is rooted in alienation from God. Note the Sudan and eastern sweathouses.

The New Testament is the story of human liberation (not leftist ‘liberation theology’). Jesus, quoting Isaiah, says, “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because He hath anointed me to preach . . . deliverance to the captives, and . . . to set at liberty them that are oppressed.” Certainly Jesus was no proponent of slavery! In the Old Testament slavery existed everywhere as a deeply entrenched social norm, but in Israel it was highly regulated, and mistreatment was punished. The passage you referred to as “Selling your daughter into slavery” is not such, but is concerned with regulations regarding a certain kind of betrothal. “The word used is marriage . . . She is legally protected from being either a concubine or a slave; she cannot even be sent out into the fields as a slave.” It is well established that slavery as was practiced in the U. S. upon African persons existed also in the ancient world; but in Israel there were various types of servitude: there were no prisons as we know them. Criminals were either forced to make viable restitution to the offended party or were executed if the crime warranted it and was proven by law. Servitude of some kind is unavoidable in all places at all times if one lives in community. It is just a matter of degree and nature. Millions of Americans will tell you they feel like a clave to their jobs, which are often alienated from the fruits of their labors and sheer drudgery. And then there is the credit card “master.”

It was the purpose in ancient Israel to allow for servitude, but to make it just and equitable. A runaway slave could not be forced back into slavery, for example: the pretext for the Underground Railroad, perhaps. And there was voluntary servitude, which could lead to the loveslave arrangement where the servants ear was pierced and he declared himself a loyal servant of his beloved “master.”

As to the Genesis 6 and 7 references, I guess you are referring ot he idea that black people were seen as the descendants of Cain, and were thus cursed to be slaves. Because Christianity was the universal religion of so many across the ages, there is BOUND to be abuses, misinterpretations and applications. Any reasonable person knows this. It is just as true of other widespread isms. Stalinist socialism/humanism is certainly not espoused or embraced by modern democratic socialist types today. And Hitler was truly an atheist, but most humane atheists of modern America would not associate them- selves personally or ideologically with Nazism. So, modern biblical Christians do not agree with the misinterpretation of those who upheld slavery based on a TOTAL misinterpretation of Genesis 7. When ideologies reach the popular level they are often crass distortions of the original belief.

The fact is that all of us are slaves; either to God or to sin and self. In I Cor. 7 St. Paul declares, “Were you a slave when called (within the institution then in place)? Do not be concerned about it. But if you gain your freedom avail yourself of the opportunity. For he who is called in the Lord as a “slave” (mine) is a freedman of the Lord. Likewise he who was free when called is a slave (loveslave) of Christ. You were bought with a price; DO NOT BECOME SLAVES OF MEN. So, brothers, in whatever condition each was called, there let him remain with God.” They had no real choice. WE DO! “If the Son shall make you free you shall be free INDEED.”