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So I wonder exactly what would be so bloody terrible about letting these "enemies" have what they want? Oh yeah, I forgot to ask: what do they want? To live in peace without a bunch of nosy busybodies sniffing around their bedrooms, I should think. I'd also expect that they might want to feel safe from discrimination in employment and family law. I wonder why these things might be so hard for some people to live with?

And let's not hear that Santorum-like BS about beastiality or NAMBLA, m'kay? None of the few gays I've ever known had no pediphilic issues, and the animal sex business is a red herring used to try and distract from the actual question.

Here's one atheist's guess. There is this thing in the Bible about corporate responsibility. In the Old Testament, entire cities and nations were punished if even one person stepped out of line on the laws. I wonder if some folks might be worried that if two women fall in love in Greensboro, that God will send another Hugo to wash us away.

See, one of the things that gays and atheists have in common is having to live with unreasoning fear and unjust demonization from the vast majority of the people we live with. It's simply not right, in both cases. None of us "outsiders" are a danger to the community. Most of us have qualities that can contribute positively to the life of the community, provided we're not shouted down and marginalized over such nonsense.

If we're productive, peaceful members of society, we should be accepted in that light. Not spat on by the "holier-than-us" people who have no use for actually taking seriously the idea of "love thy neighbor."

ALl people MUST be accepted in an open and lawful society,especially in the privacy of ther homes. The alternative is Big Brother, which none of us should want. But not all things are good for a society to openly condone and make legal. God will surely judge a society that does so - and idivuduals who practice such things, secular or Christian. Your moral realivism, John, is VERY shakey ground; it opens the Pandora's Box of all kinds of perversions and evil to be seen as right and good. That's why the bestiality is thing is frequently mentioned. Homosexuality, bestiality, necrophilia, protitution, etc. are all considered sinful and abominable - ALL of them. Picking one to sanitize, dress up and market doesn't cut it. God will NEVER allow it to prosper and succeed for long, regardless of its short term success in the media and liberal courts.

"Your moral realivism, John, is VERY shakey ground"

Your moral ground is just as shaky, sir. You've had this pointed out to you before, so I need not repeat the matter.

"God will surely judge a society that does so"

Old testament-based superstition. Didn't Jesus point out that God makes it rain on the just as well as the unjust? What do you think he might have meant by that?

What it clearly means, in context, is that the negative and detrimental occurrences of life are not selectively focused on sinners, but occur across the spectrum of humanity. Jesus' point here is that we should not hypocritically go around "hating" and judging our personal enemies or sinners (those who habitually love and embrace sin – we’re all of us sinners, though saved by grace through faith), but should have divine, merciful love for sinners, even though they are doing evil and wretched things; because God, who hates and judges sin, shows mercy to all by continuing to bestow the basic elements of life. In other words, it ain’t over yet. Don’t you guys judge before God is ready.

In other words, if God exhibits patience with sinners enough to continue essential natural provision for them, we should, likewise, not pass final judgment upon them with the plank still hanging out of our own eye. In other words, we should reach out in love and mercy to those in the thralldom of spiritual darkness and sin, as God did to us, in delivering us from it. Jesus was proclaiming the Good News of the Kingdom – but it also required repentance and ammendment of life if it were to be entered into; so also today.

If speaking out against sin (but not condemning or browbeating individuals) were wrong, then the Prophets and Apostles – even Jesus himself – would have been in error. We are called to “judge righteous judgment” – that is, declare God’s absolute truth without apology – and let it apply equally to ourselves (hypocrisy is failing to do that) as to others. There is a difference in Scripture between the public preaching of God’s revealed truth concerning sin, and personally beating up on an individual. I would speak and act very differently if I were to sit down over a cup of coffee with someone, than on a publicly-read blog.

It is the difference between objective proclamation and subjective entreaty of an object of God’s love and mercy. God works in his own merciful but convicting way through the preached Word; but we are to minister the Gospel to other individuals in a spirit of humility. Jesus did not proclaim final judgment on the woman at the well or on Nicodemus, but mercifully and patiently reached out to them. He convicted them of their sin and unbelief to save them from its tyranny over them, while never compromising the truth - never.

This passage from Matt. 5: 43-48 was simply a way of calling for mercy and humility; not of tolerating or justifying sin as a principle or societal norm. Interestingly, at the end of this passage Jesus says: “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” Sin is anything that mars the perfect wholeness of God’s blissful and righteous kingdom. He will not tolerate its practice and promotion forever, but will surely judge it finally. God allowed Hitler to “succeed and conquer” for a season, but ultimately brought final and horrible judgment upon him and all who followed and advocated his dark designs. But now, for America, it is still the time of repentance and mercy. A false deduction that it is now OK to promote and practice sin, can only portend further judgments and ruin for our free and once Bible-based nation. “Now is the day of salvation.” “Choose you this day whom you will serve. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.” What an incalculable blessing!!

Again, I see this blog as yet still another where people are seeking to determine that homosexuality is sin/sinful. Sadly, there are no Hebrew or Christian scriptures that CLEARLY, PLAINLY, UNEQUIVOCALLY state such. What we do have are texts that have homosexuality "read into them" without any proof that is the intent of the writer.

We also have texts where modern translations have inserted a 19th Century word into a 1st Century document. This cannot be done without knowing full-well what the writer was intending.

Basically, the above matters are known as "proof-texting." This can be done to prove ANYTHING that one so desires. Yet, this does not mean that is what the writer intended. Even more, how do we know fully that what the writer wrote is what God intended?

Scripture is a guide, not a check-list. To treat scripture as such limits God. Scripture is not an end-all. Rather, it is a beginning point. Revelation is continuing. To believe otherwise would mean that God is finished with humanity and there is nothing left to do. What a sad life it would be to believe and live as such.

Shalom

Darryl wrote: "Again, I see this blog as yet still another where people are seeking to determine that homosexuality is sin/sinful. Sadly, there are no Hebrew or Christian scriptures that CLEARLY, PLAINLY, UNEQUIVOCALLY state such. What we do have are texts that have homosexuality "read into them" without any proof that is the intent of the writer."

What part of "you shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination," (Lev. 18:22) or "and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error" (Rom. 1:27) seem unclear or equivocal? I know many gay sympathizers have labored diligently to make them seem so, for I once taught a class in the local MCC to that effect; but their efforts are in vain. Heaven and earth may pass away, but God's Word endures forever, and His view of homosexual acts does not change. "abomination...unnatural...shameless acts...error" all seem pretty clear and unequivocal to me.