News-Record.com

Even though you're going to get some rather flaky reactions (pig races?), the general concern is understandable. The tennets of Islam are pretty much across the board anti-Christain-Jewish-Western-secualr, etc. And Mosques are notoriously centers of radical thinking, and possibly activity! The British citizenry knows all about that now.

Although there are many ordinary-folk type Muslims who are just trying to apply their particular spiritual system in raising their families, working and making a life; they are unfortunately part of a world-wide religion that is notorious for radical connections and aggressive take-over thinking - not to mention blwoing up our major national infrastructure.

So the insipid headline, "Who Are the Terrorists Here" is just another anti-American put down, so typical of this blog and paper. Suburban over-reaction stunts are NOT TO BE COMPARED to the vicious Isalmo-facists. There is evil everywhere, of course, but these folks in Katy are actually justified in wanting to oppose the building of a Mosque in their town. We may not be able to make Islam illegal,(although 9/11 brought us to the brink) but we can sure try to resist it within the law - as people do a number of other unwanted things. Christainity is being opposed, put down and driven out of the public forum in a number of legal ways. Just leqave out the pigs and other nuttty stuff.

If a concerned group of citizens wanted to "resist" the building of yet another stinky Christian church or decide to run Wicca rituals or some such activity nearby to unsettle them Christians, do you think they'd be right, even if they were within their legal rights? Are there any behaviours that one's neighbors could legally do that would send the same sort of message to Christians wishing to have a place to worship?

Or do Christians get to have their say against everyone else?

This is what relativism does to one's thinking. Some liberals would probably support a Jeffrey Dahmer restaurant chain's right to build anywhere they wanted.

Not Christians; just the Lord Jesus Christ.

Seriously. All I was saying was that (besides the nutcase pig-race dude) public resistance to a Mosque has good historical basis. It should NOT be legal to actually forbid building a Mosque (until clear and ubiquitous evidence fo terrorist connections and designs is set forth in court); but to resist within the law is not only legal but understandable in this case. Resisting the building of a Church or Wicca place is not based on recent evidence of terrorist activity, but on sheer bias, distaste or disapproval - which is par for the course for anywhere on earth.

I would resist the building of a Wicca place but would never vote to make it illegal. We might consider making Mosques illegal if the evidence continues to mount that they are generally covert terrorist sponsors. I don't see that now; but perhaps further revelations and investigations would prove its veracity.

A lot of people are acting as if all Muslims are responsible for the actions of the extremists. You'd think that good Christian folks would be sort of sensitive to this type of treatment, considering the situation with Christian history. But sadly, it is not happening. For shame.

"This is what relativism does to one's thinking. Some liberals would probably support a Jeffrey Dahmer restaurant chain's right to build anywhere they wanted."

And this, coming from the guy who says that Christian mind games "are NOT TO BE COMPARED" to terrorism. There's a word for this sort of behavior. Sort of like "hypodermic" IIRC....

Interesting this "average Mosque-attending Muslim" guy in Ohio of late who planned to set off a bomb or two in a shopping mall. If you don't understand the grace imparted by Messiah's atonement, and the love that fills the soul when the Holy Spirit fills the heart at the time of faith in Christ, then you can't appreciate the legalistic nature of Islam: its agressive, conquering history, fanatical legalsim regarding women's cloistering, wanton blowing of men, women and children in Iraq just to destabilize the govenment, etc.

Yes, its not just the exptreme terrorists; it is the nature of ideological Islam itself. The common folk are just victims of its structure and law-keeping. Most sane people would rather have order and meaning than chaos and futility. Religion provides that; but not necessarily life (Zoe). But without true spiritual life ("eternal life" in Scripture) legalism always devolves into religious drudgery, creating frustration and aggressive, hate-filled antagonism toward who know joyous, garce-based Life.

All religious systems, Christian and otherwise, who do not understand the Gospel of grace and implement it, are prone to devolve into law-keeping/works righteousness (religious type, or do-good social action type) alone as the means to please God and attain true spiritual life, which is found only in a Person, the Lord Jesus Christ, the "only mediator between God and man." This was the spiritual revolution of the Reformation in the midst of legalistic, religion -infested RCism.

Islam is merely religious legalism, hence its unbiquitous propensity to hate true Christianity, which offers not lifeless law, but Spirit-filled, love-based Law-fulfillment. The Spirit of God imparts His divine life to one created in His image and likeness, enabling us to love God and relate to Him, not just keep outward religious strictures.

The fruit of Islam, and all other law-based systems, will always be the old sin nature doing its wretched thing dressed up in religious garb. Superficially benign, no-obvious-violence Islam is merely a Trojan Horse to get inside our walls in order to achieve eventual hegemony.

Thinking that Islam is just another religion to add to our national Pantheon to porve how liberal and "tolerant" we are is the height of naivite and unreality. And thinking that all that has claimed to be "Christian," or passed for it in the past, is also sadly and totally mistaken. It wasn't the phenomena of the Papacy, Byzantine Empire or Crusaders that turned the world upside down spiritually, it was the Gospel of grace alone; for, as St. Paul said, "It is the power of God unto salvation." This is what we preach, love and rejoice in, not fallible organizations, hierarchies or institutional abberations. This is what sets the Faith apart from all else.

Somewhere, somehow, another Muslim or American "convert" will succeed in helping to destroy those horrible Christain and secular men, women and children attending some concert, some mall, some Bar Mitzvah. Legaistic fanaticism knows no moral bounds or divine love - only doing the untimate heaven-assuring, law-keeping act of blowing up unsuspecting infidels.

nikos i agree with you ....but most of your audience has a hearing problem.( 1cor.1:18 & 1cor.1:21 )

"Islam is merely religious legalism, hence its unbiquitous propensity to hate true Christianity,"

Newsflash Nikos. Islam is against everything that is not islam. You seem to share a common trait with a lot of christians today. It's called a persecution complex. Contrary however to what you beLIEve, the whole world is not in a war with christianity. Merely because most people see things a little differently than you do doesn't mean every word out of their mouth is a direct attack on your god.

"Thinking that Islam is just another religion to add to our national Pantheon to porve how liberal and "tolerant" we are is the height of naivite and unreality."

That's why we have the first amendment Nikos. To prevent people like you from establishing a christian theocracy in this country. It's a good thing the founding fathers were a little more openminded than you are.

" only doing the untimate heaven-assuring, law-keeping act of blowing up unsuspecting infidels."

"Men never commit evil so fully and joyfuly as when they do it for religious convictions"
-- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)

"Native spirituality was suppressed by the U.S. and Canadian governments. Spiritual leaders ran the risk of jail sentences of up to 30 years for simply practicing their rituals. This came to an end in the U.S. in 1978 when the Freedom of Religion Act was passed."
(http://www.religioustolerance.org/nataspir.htm)

Dancing traditional tribal rituals was also illegal in the US until 1937.

The official government reasoning for this oppression was that the Indians had shown propensity for insurrection and violence, as far back as the founding of this country. The "Ghost Dance" was a 19th century attempt to rally several tribes to "rise up" against the White Man, they contended.

So, on this basis, perhaps we should confiscate the casinos and beat them back to the resevations again. And perhaps Buddhist Japanese-Americans should once more be interred?

Nikos is speaking from a sound mind.

Freddy, they were never “interred,” (thank goodness), only interned. (I know what you meant)

Rebel, it’s not a persecution “complex;” it’s reality, that Islam, or any man-created religion is in direct antipathy to Grace - i.e. God provided a Lamb. Man cannot save himself - by good works or good intentions - only by repenting of his sin and rebellion, and fully trusting in Messiah's atonement ALONE. St. Paul called it the "scandal" of the Cross – a stumbling block to the Jews and foolishness to the Greeks (Gentiles). This is also why Western secular humanists reject orthodox, grace-based Christianity. It's too simplistic; not "intellectual" enough (i.e. it doesn’t feed man’s pride that he can figure everything out and extricate himself from the existential quagmire. It also gets in the way of big government programs of social salvation, etc.

The Scriptures promise that the world will reject and persecute those who are in Christ. Jesus spelled it out very plainly: “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet, because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you ‘A servant is not greater than his master. If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you.” (St. John 15. 18-20)

I think that what we, as a nation, did to the Indians is shameful, Freddy - the same with slavery. The worst thing that we have done to the Native population is to inflict the gaming industry upon them. The secular state has tended to operate in the darkness of the sin nature, with little or no awareness of true biblical approaches. One can hardly blame the Indian for trying to oppose and hold back the European invasion. If the early colonists had exhibited (some did) the love, understanding and righteousness of Christ the wretched treatment of the Native population would not have occurred. I guess some conflict would have inevitably happened; but not to the degree that it did.

But despite the noble savage idealism surrounding PC views of Natives, they were steeped in the darkness of witchcraft and paganism; as were the Europeans before the light of the Gospel came to them. I greatly respect their closeness to nature and many things about their life and culture, but I do not agree with animism, nature worship and demon manipulation. All, apart from the light of Jesus Christ, is darkness, whether it be in the world, the heretical and apostate Church or in pagan religion. Jesus: “I am the light of the world.”

I will state MY opinion concerning the theocracy thing again. To begin with, the entire world is a theocracy, “the earth is the Lord’s and the fullness thereof.” The concept of human independence is a myth. Ultimately God’s will and plan will prevail in human history.

As far as America is concerned; this nation was clearly a theocracy (human government and culture based upon the sovereignty of God and His Law/Word) in the beginning, although the Constitution was an attempt to avoid the establishment of any particular denomination, and so was couched in rather neutral terms. But the culture, as a whole, was decidedly Christian in orientation, and God was invoked in prayer and law by both state and national leaders and bodies. It was only as humanism and secularism gained a foothold in the 19th century, and almost full sway by the latter art of the 20th, that America ceased to have a Christian consensus.

Theocracy is not something man can set up; it is man recognizing what already IS, and living and governing accordingly. It is achieved by changing hearts and lives through the preaching of the Gospel, true worship and Scripture education. National freedom is based upon individual responsibility and righteousness – from God alone. And so, I oppose (not hate or desire to persecute) all that is not in line with God’s Word; not because it makes me feel important or right, but because it’s the only way that any individual or nation can achieve maximum happiness, justice and fulfillment on this earth. Genuine Christianity can only be preached - to those with volition, in the image and likeness of God. It is a mutually free relationship, and so cannot be forced (Jihad), by its very nature. True freedom can only be known in a condition of holiness, in submission to the Creator.

America is becoming a nation in darkness and bondage as it slips further and further from its Christian moorings. Becoming a potpourri of religious and philosophical error will only further open the floodgates of moral and social chaos. But one cannot see it unless he first sees Him. When the light goes on, all is illuminated. Neither Buddha, Mohammed, Dawkins, or anyone else, can turn that light on – only the Lord of Glory, the Way, the Truth and the Life. Here I stand, I can do no other. Soli Deo Gloria!

"it’s reality, that Islam, or any man-created religion is in direct antipathy to Grace - i.e. God provided a Lamb."

That's right Nikos. Your way is the only way and the whole entire rest of the planet is wrong, doomed to burn in hell for all eternity. How very arrogant.

"This is also why Western secular humanists reject orthodox, grace-based Christianity. It's too simplistic; not "intellectual" enough"

Uh, Nikos? How about not based in reality?

And one more thing. This forum is not the place to launch into a sermon on how evil everyone is.

"But despite the noble savage idealism surrounding PC views of Natives, they were steeped in the darkness of witchcraft and paganism"

I've read a little about the spirituality of the native American nations and in Hawai'i. While they had a lot of beliefs that modern day people would find ridiculous, I know of nothing that would be any more or less silly than your religion. I'd have to guess that you know nothing about the spiritual beliefs of any of the native peoples who lived here millenia before your ancestors arrived on the scene. Too bad, though. Theirs is a story of great wonder and beauty, and has nothing to be ashamed of when placed beside the "great monothist religions" of the world.

Histrocially, there is one factor in favor of what you desire, Nikos: in general, societies have required a basic agreement as to the majority spiritual belief system to maintain and thrive as a unified nation. In the US, the love of money and the belief that one can achieve if not riches then at least a "better life" financially, is the true American religion. It trumps all the doctrinal differences among the various Christians sects and Judaism, and as long as immigrants from Asia and converts to Islam are brought under the spell of "free-market capitalism" and especially the lure of Madison Avenue, all will be well enough, no matter the stripe of individual god espoused.

Rebel, who are you to tell anyone what they can and cannot say on this blog? I thought it was an open forum. I would say that all viewpoints are game; only vitriol and personal attack would lack civility and intellectual credibility.

Even though your accusation that I am saying “how evil everyone is” is lacking in substance, I will address it. My positions are not MY way, or MY religion; they are based squarely on Scripture; which is my working premise in all matters. I try to give ample Scripture references as I express my ideas. So take your grievances up with the Magnum Mysterium – which, I admit, you do at times. But please don’t give me credit where I neither want nor deserve it. It is far greater and larger than I.

I not only desire to hear your, and everyone’s, opinions, but am thankful that we are all able to express them; regardless of how we vehemently disagree on most issues – which debate would be highly unlikely in a truly Islamic or Communist society. If I, or any Christian, cannot convince you through discussing issues of truth, and a worthy life, we have no other way that God ordains. As I stated before, coercion is antithetical to the propagation of the Gospel.

I can certainly understand how you might view my Christ-only position as “arrogant;” but it is the consistent and avowed position of the Scriptures: “all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.”
Jesus: “Those who believe not are condemned already.” In other words, man is born in a state of “sin,” or “alienated from the life of God.” He is not devoid of mental acumen or talents; rather unable to know God truly and to live the way God created him to live.

There was a time when man and woman were so living, but that ended at the point of disobedience and rebellion. Again, it was based on free choice. Everyone still alienated from God thinks and acts in that same rebellious mindset. This explains the cruel, hate-filled, warlike, criminal, depraved thinking and behavior of the human race apart from a moral sense and commitment, based on a vital inner union with the Creator. Life and truth ARE God. When we transient, miniscule, and presumptuous beings seek to operate disconnected from God we fall into the most depraved error and darkness.

And I do NOT say that non-Judeo-Christian religions or philosophies are utterly lacking in this moral sense; or in truth or partial knowledge of the divine, because all religion stems from the religious thought and practice of primeval human society. However, it was corrupted through sin and ignorance; thus, the necessity of maintaining the Messianic line in the OT and the consequent giving of the Mosaic Law, the OT Prophetic preaching and, finally and completely in the coming of Messiah Himself, Who provided the cosmic atonement of the Cross; faith in which is the instrumentality for inner transformation and the restoration of true relationship with the Creator.

In this same vein, John; as I said in my last entry, I greatly respect and admire the simplicity and naturalness of many of the Native ways; I simply do not see their religious thought and practice as reflecting the knowledge of God that is necessary for Messianic salvation or spiritual reality. On the other hand, I do NOT EQUATE true Christian living with what we have seen in Western history. There is much in our Euro tradition that is good and wonderful; and much that is utterly evil and disastrous, all the latter being the result of either rebellion against, misinterpretation of, or ignorance of the Word of God; which in no way justifies either demonic, pagan practices or European pride, unbelief and error. We must think outside the historic box, without totally and unreasonably abandoning the box, to build a viable Christian civilization for the future.

And Freddy, I couldn’t agree with you more. You’ve hit the proverbial nail on the head, my friend. Materialism, greed and godless amorality (all sins, all contrary to Scripture) are indeed the dominant “values” of modern Western societies. We disagree only on the alternative. Any way you slice it, however, there is a profound lack of spiritual reality, values and perspective; all of which is driving us into the utter depravity of sin and unbelief. What is your grand alternative, in terms of actual values, goals and MO - given, a confused, unjust and conflicted world; what is the solution, and your vision for the future? Anybody.

Nikos, I don't think there can be any "one size fits all" grand narrative; theories are by their nature unreliable and new myths arise at different times to provide the much-wished-for easy answers. The oldest myths still linger with us. I am glad you admit there are grains of truth in each, but, unlike you, I would argue none are sufficient to explain all realities; especially in light of a radically contigent universe of evolutionary and human-created change.

I plainly reject, Nikos, your presupposition and contention that unbelief in your particular brand of Christianity leads inexorably to what you call "sin" and the evils of depravity. For one, you use blanket terms that do not define what amounts to depravity (though I can guess such "abominations" as homosexuality are ranked alongside murder and incest in your rogue's gallery), nor will I ever understand the unprovable fiction of "sin" if it is to be linked to some metaphysical concept such as a "soul" or "spirit", never mind "god".

That doesn't mean I don't agree that the distractions and passions of the day have heaped a terrible toll of greedy hoarding and wasting of precious resources while wreaking havoc with likely future reserves.

Thus, I have no panacea for pulling people away from materialistic greed. Oddly, though, I am a materialist when it comes to explaining the workings of the physical universe. That doesn't mean I approve of purely hedonistic, self-and instant-gratification.

Like you, however, I do not want to attempt some enforced be-goodism. I agree that in a democracy (long may it endure), our recourse must be to considered argument for the benefits of enlightened self-interest (very different from sheer hedonism) and long-term solutions that spread the benefits of prosperity across classes and generations; this opposes the "I got mine" attitude of rampant capitalism.

Your short list, Freddy, of depravity was a good start. Unfortunately there is much more. When examined closer, it will become obvious that war, hatred, perversion, incest, slander, ad nauseam stem from the human heart (inner motivational center) - power lust, pride, self-gratification at the expense of others, etc. It is called sin, evil, corruption. The Bible gives a thorough treatment of both its causes and cures.

RebelSnake wrote: "That's right Nikos. Your way is the only way and the whole entire rest of the planet is wrong, doomed to burn in hell for all eternity. How very arrogant"

On the contrary, Reb; hearing the word of an all-knowing and all-powerful God and responding, "yes, Lord; I believe" is humility, not arrogance, for it recognizes, and submits to, an infinitely superior intelligence and goodness, even when it doesn't fully understand it. Arrogance is thinking that your reason alone is sufficient for understanding life, or that your belief that some action is good is all that is neccessary to make it good. Arrogance is being your own god.
And it's not "Nikos'" way or "my" way, it's God's way. And until you can heal the sick, make the blind see and the lame dance, raise the dead, teach God's truth, die for our sins and rise from death, or until you can show me another religious leader besides Christ who did the same, I will continue to walk with Jesus as humbly as I can, giving all the praise to Him from whom all good things flow.

"On the contrary, Reb; hearing the word of an all-knowing and all-powerful God and responding, "yes, Lord; I believe" is humility, not arrogance, for it recognizes, and submits to, an infinitely superior intelligence and goodness, even when it doesn't fully understand it."

Doesn't look that way to objective observers, Steve. You claim that only you have communication with this all-knowing creator, but we see no reason to accept that any more than you accept it from Muslims who make the exact same claim. Using exactly the same terms. Only with a different book to read from.

You can't expect to be taken seriously in that situation, can you? In fact, when you realize that you are in the same boat as the Muslims and Jews so far as we are concerned, how can you avoid understanding that we can conclude nothing BUT arrogance?

"And until you can heal the sick, make the blind see and the lame dance, raise the dead..."

Um, Steve? If you can show me evidence that such things can really happen, I'll be happy to agree with you.

http://whydoesgodhateamputees.com/

Otherwise, I see no reason to think that you have anything real going on for you.

"On the contrary, Reb; hearing the word of an all-knowing and all-powerful God and responding,"

...Is a clear sign of a person in need of psychiatric therapy.

Boy, that was a powerful argument, Ms. Snake; very astute ad hominem logic, there.

John: “Doesn't look that way to objective observers, Steve. You claim that only you have communication with this all-knowing creator, but we see no reason to accept that any more than you accept it from Muslims who make the exact same claim. Using exactly the same terms. Only with a different book to read from.”

Man, such nuance and delicacy of reasoning here: “Only with a different book to read from.” Just a modicum of reading and study normally produces a clear conclusion that the two books are very, very different. I won’t belabor the point; it’s pretty much common knowledge.

People make similar, or equivalent statements about many things; but doesn’t mean that they are all right. Both Hamas and Fatah claim to be the rightful leaders of the Palestinian people, but they are very different and can’t both be right, what with elections and all.

The Judeo-Christian Scriptures have been shown time and again to be extremely reliable, in terms of Mss. and historicity: extra-biblical witnesses, eye witnesses, huge number of mss., ardent willing-to-die followers, the gestalt of all the testimonies, etc.

I don’t think that Steve meant to say that only HE had communication with God; but that all those who are redeemed and filled with the Spirit, and have the Scriptures to read and study, are in true and real communication with the Source and ultimate Author.

It’s not like human communication, but is a genre beyond, interior and profound – but tied to and wholly dependent on the Word of God written. This is precisely why orthodox Christians make no personal claims to revelation or insight; knowing full well that human spiritual perception is hopelessly flawed by sin and depravity, having been there done that. As with Paul, we “preach Christ and Him crucified.”

Healing and miracles seem to be clustered around major pivots of revelation: Sinai, the Prophets, and the Messianic ministry and early Apostolic follow-through. But then, Jesus didn’t say for naught to (doubting) Thomas, who demanded physical corroboration, “Blessed are those who not seen and yet believed.” And Jesus words to the unbelieving Jews: “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign . . .”

Faith is most true and simple when it stems from seeing one’s utter pride and sinfulness in response to the Gospel, humbly receiving the gift of Messiah’s atoning sacrifice, and giving God the glory due His holy name; declaring with Thomas, “My Lord and my God.”

Although I love to talk to people about Jesus Christ and the Word of God, I have no illusion of bringing anyone to saving faith by my pedestrian reasoning and logic. It comes solely by grace and revelation; although God has used discussion and apologetic arguments numerous times to prepare hearts to receive the Truth.

Therein lies the crux of the issue: if it requires an entirely nonlogical leap prompted by supernatural inspiration to ever accept the sheer incredible claims of any revelatory religion (and aren't they all?), there's seems little point or hope in making arguments for one's faith with those who have been taught to weight evidence as objectively as humanly possible.

Our criteria for what is "true" ad "real" are apparently utterly anbd irrevocably at odds.

Except that many would argue that how one actually behaves towards experience and reacts on the primal level to phenomena are more alike than not; the great frustration with the suicide bomber contagion is that their survival instincts seem to have been trumped by the mad love of religion. In Christianity, such behavior was seen during the Crusades, the wars of the Reformation/Counter-Reformation and Renaissance over heresy (though manipulated by those after simple earthly power and riches) and, one might conjecture, the colonization by Empires since not only Byzantium, but on into the twentieth century via Britain and the US (see McKinley's love for "our little brown brothers" in the Philippines).

Terrorism has become a too-easy word, thrown about as polemic. However, the word "fanatic" is often appropriate. Beware all fanatics.

Freddy, especially the anti-Christian humanist types (of fanatics, that is), who would tend to jump all over somebody for criticizing Jewish attitudes and actions (wrong to do of course, if untrue and unjustified), calling them anti-Semitic bigots, but would have no compunction whatsoever in maligning, putting-down and dissing all things and persons Christian. Apparently, the compulsion to destroy their nemesis, trumps all humanist restraints at such chicanery.

Your insinuation (not so subtle) that I, or any other committed and passionate Christian practitioner or apologist, like the Islamo-facist terrorists, has a "mad love of religion" - ending with "Beware all fanatics," is pure ad hominem put-down. Bringing up the historically sensistive and contextual Crusades, etc. is far-removed from sound discussion of the issues at hand. I could bring up the sad, sorry and oppressive record of unbelievers, atheistic Communists, failed humanist social experiments, et al. I only mention it here because you have slipped into the ad hominem mode, deferring to discuss the merits of true, biblical Christian teaching (Moses, Jesus, Paul) – as you have proven yourself capable of doing in the past. Your pride in “total” objectivity is undeserved by this entry.

Bring up the Crusades is really tired and tawdry argumentation. Actually, the Crusades had some justification in view of the very real menace of conquest-driven Islam; altho very poorly carried out by a very undeveloped, biblical-challenged and effete church and state establishment. However, the Reformed defense against the Papist assaults was entirely justified, if tainted with inevitable human imperfection.

Well, perhaps I'm wasting my time - you seem to be committed to viewing every historical aberration and contextual occurrence as a means of dismissing biblical Truth itself, ignoring all the good things the Gospel has brought to the world: the sacrifice of saintly humanitarians, excellent schoarlship and beautiful artistic triumphs, etc. "Every good and perfect gift cometh down form the Father of lights . . ." All that is sinful, corrupt, erroneous and depraved is NOT from God, His Word or His consecrated and obedient followers.
Sin and unbelief permeates, distorts and undermines all areas of human thought and endeavor (total depravity), including the Church. It is only the grace and power of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God that mitigates and overcomes it at all.

So, Nikos, is there or isn't there a truth to your religious views that goes beyond objective verification or rational test and analysis? I think most Christians would say there is. Fortunately, most people do not act exclusively upon such supernatural beliefs for daily living.

But do you deny there are fanatics (I was NOT aiming at you, Nikos; you clearly attempt rational discussion....if I am using ad hominem attacks, it is upon those who can be riled up to maim, kill and run roughshod over the rights of others by appealing to the aforementioned supernatural beliefs; it isn't there person that is the danger, though, it is their way of thinking leading to their way of acting...these must be attacked and vigourously!)?

And yes, there are excesses on all sides of fanaticism...I would not have signed up to carry a torch with the mobs of Paris to burn the cathedrals. At the same time, I think those buildings are now better off maintained as museums and tourist draws while letting those few who might worship in them do so.