News-Record.com

Nancy,

Thanks for posting that story by Ms. Kersten of the Star-Tribune. She is spot on.

What we are seeing in these reports is merely a foretaste of things to come. I have noted many times before that it is never Islam’s goal to integrate or adapt to another culture, but to do everything possible, from the very outset, to make it a Sharia-based Islamic state; and “open and tolerant” America is a sitting duck for their goals. Islamization is their stated goal, and anyone who thinks otherwise is living in bleeding heart fantasy land.

These incidents involving seeing-eye dogs and other refusals to offer services, and demands for accommodations for their prayer times are just installments in their strategy for take-over. But America has been so secularized and biblically dumbed-down by the liberal/humanist educational system and media that we no longer have the capacity to discern the obvious. The Europeans have already begun to experience the ominous implications of allowing Islam to be implanted in their national cultures.

Rather than a work of persuasion and encounter, Islam is by nature a virulent, aggressive and legalistic ideology; taking every opportunity to demand accommodation and special treatment, in an effort to gradually become powerful enough to tip a nation toward Islamic law and cultural dominance; which will inevitably involve the disenfranchisement of all other religions and ways of thinking. Their deceptive jargon about working within the American system is just that and no more. They are not in the least concerned about honesty, pluralism and integration – ONLY about eventual hegemony. Any superficial show of accommodation is merely a stealth tactic of gradualism. Humanism now has a masterful competitor in the satanic effort to supplant our free Christian culture.

Again, failure to recognize Islam for the intrusive and domineering force that it is spells only increasing conflict and vexation in the public sphere, and continued erosion of our Judeo-Christian heritage, already under severe attack from within by humanism, atheism and neo-Marxism. America is no longer a unified, free and evolving Christian republic, but a staging area for competing foreign elements, intent on enshrining their languages, ideologies and religions in disparate and ascendant cultural enclaves, bristling with manipulative street campaigns and opportunistic voting blocks, as they suck the fat sow dry. The retrospective vision of the happy melting pot is now simply a formula for cultural disintegration and spiritual capitulation.

"Again, failure to recognize Islam for the intrusive and domineering force that it is spells only increasing conflict and vexation in the public sphere"

Why might that be, Nikos? Does Christianity as an intrusive and domineering force have dibs on America?

Eric:

How has Christianity intruded and domineered your life?

Well, there's all those laws that I have lived under during my life, making it illegal to purchase certain things on certain days (or in fact making it illegal to purchase anything at one time), or live with certain people, or perform certain acts in my bedroom with a consenting adult if I so chose. IIRC, all of those laws were passed because they were Christian ideas of what should or shouldn't be legal.

And let us not forget the vast number of Christians who have made untold efforts to limit the reading material that could be made available for people to access at public libraries across the nation.

Those examples good enough for starters?

Oh, and then there's the whole restricting of scientific thought and advancement thing. Question -- even after this latest announcement regarding the discovery of a way to harvest stem cells without harming a fetus, why is the Christian Right still so dead set against moving this research forward?

Oh, and then there's the whole restricting of scientific thought and advancement thing. Question -- even after this latest announcement regarding the discovery of a way to harvest stem cells without harming a fetus, why is the Christian Right still so dead set against moving this research forward?

Eric:

Are you saying that Christians shouldn't be allowed to participate in public discourse and public policy?

So, Eric, do you want to eradicate our Christian heritage, or just those parts YOU prefer. You want the laws against stealing, lying, covetousness, and murder to continue I bet; but not the one against Sodomy (connected to adultery). James 2:10 teaches us that the Law is a whole, that to offend in one point is to break the Law of God - period.

Israel was to be the blessed, law-keeping people, each person being the loving righteous ideal Adam/Eve. This did not happen of course, because the Law does not MAKE us righteous, it only sets the standard, revealing how sinful, willful and selfish we really are - how far from a being able to have holy fellowship with the Creator.

This is the key difference between Islam and TRUE biblical Christianity. Christians are saved by grace and not by the Law. We are redeemed in order that we might keep the Law, because NO ONE is able to become the perfect, Adamic ideal the all-holy Creator requires. Therefore, Yeshua became the perfect and pure Adam who alone could take upon Himself the sins of the world; and all who put their trust in him can be inwardly transformed and know eternal joy and sweet fellowship with the Lord. No atonement, no eternal life. Islam falls woefully and fatally short.

Islam, with its rigid Sharia, is a throw-back to the enslaving legalism of the Pharisees - worse, because they have no part in the biblical promise through Isaac. Only a short, cursory study of Islamic tradition and current practice shows how demonically and deadly true this is.

Eric, you may not like some of the laws and traditions of Christian America (and there certainly have been misapplications, mistakes and excesses along the way - par of the human course) but you also are heir to a culture that is benevolent, free and representative - all directly attributable to Judeo-Christian doctrine and common grace. We are free to a fault in today's violent and abusive world. But as St. Paul exhorts: “ Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.” As Christians, and people living in a biblically-based culture, we are heir to Christ’s liberating grace: spiritually, economically and politically. To choose Islam, or even to defend it, is the height of naiveté.

Law is inescapable. We will either choose to live by God’s Law or we will choose to make up our own. The latter will bring us only death and misery. Eric: “Well, there's all those laws that I have lived under during my life,” I’m sorry, buddy, but you will always be living under somebody’s law – always, always, always! Just pray (well, hope) you don’t ever have to live under Islamic law. You don’t know restrictions. On second thought, you’d better pray – hard.

"Are you saying that Christians shouldn't be allowed to participate in public discourse and public policy?"

I didn't say that. You asked me how Christians are intrusive and domineering in my life. I gave you a list of reasons for saying that. If they want to intrude and domineer, I think their right to make that effort is supported by the Constitution. I think they're wrong those cases and I'll speak out in opposition and vote against it, but I wouldn't dream of asking for their silence.

What makes you think I would do something so un-American?

Nikos said:
"James 2:10 teaches us that the Law is a whole, that to offend in one point is to break the Law of God - period."

So your view of laws is absolute, and disrespect for your mother is the same as murder. Gotcha.

"Islam, with its rigid Sharia, is a throw-back to the enslaving legalism of the Pharisees - worse, because they have no part in the biblical promise through Isaac."

And your criticism of Islam's "enslaving legalism" gives you no feeling of irony at all, does it? You are a piece of work, Nikos, you know that?

Take it easy. {;-)

Eric:

Man, do you get up early or what!

How are the efforts you describe above unconstitutional?

"How are the efforts you describe above unconstitutional?"

Um -- I thought I was saying that Christian efforts to affect the laws of the land ARE protected by the constitution. I wouldn't want to squelch your right to express your opinion or to vote on any proposition. I only said that I disagree with such views... and that's all.

Eric: “So your view of laws is absolute, and disrespect for your mother is the same as murder. Gotcha.”

“Gotcha?” You’ll have to do a lot better than that to gotcha anybody. In answer to your question, my friend: yes and no. You didn’t really interact with the substance of my entry; I was trying to point out that sin is sin, and the consequence is always spiritual, and sometimes physical, death. You were picking and choosing: rejecting Sabbath laws (“Thou shalt keep holy the Sabbath”) and wanting the idea of murder being evil and wrong to remain a part of our law code - I’m just assuming from silence you do. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Disrespecting or dishonoring one’s parents – mother or father – is more sinful and deadly than most people imagine; especially nowadays. It sets in motion a rebellious attitude that undermines the social order of holy living and divine providence. Breaking generational continuity of the Covenant has dire and disastrous consequences (Deut. 28), with Deut. 6 directly connecting national blessing and prosperity with teaching covenant children the ways of the Lord. To not do so will bring judgment and ruin upon the nation.

And so, yes Eric, it IS absolute and unchanging. It is true for America, or any nation. For a people to say that it is OK to murder - just don’t break any of the other Commandments - would plunge that society into such a destructive binge that it would collapse though depopulation. However, the very worst and elementary Commandment to break is the First; all hinges upon submission to and love for Jehovah.

We have been consciously and deliberately breaking the Commandments of God big time in this country for several decades now (extra-marital sex, perversion, drug taking, lewd and degenerate “entertainment,” Marxism, unbelief, corporate and taxation thievery:
the wretched list goes on.

“And your criticism of Islam's "enslaving legalism" gives you no feeling of irony at all, does it? You are a piece of work, Nikos, you know that?”
Yes, I know that, Eric. God’s Word says that we “are fearfully and wonderfully made.” And that we are “God’s workmanship.”
And I tried, but I see unsuccessfully, to propound the theological fact that Islam is all law and no grace, without atonement and true forgiveness. I NEVER said that God’s Law is not essential to spiritual growth and living. It was St. Paul, the champion of NT grace theology, who said in Rom. 7:12 categorically: “Wherefore the law is holy and the commandment holy, and just, and good.”
The problem with man and the Law, Paul teaches, is that the righteous and holy Law condemns sinful and rebellious man. It is grace that provides atonement for sin and offers reunion with God on that basis, not on perfect law keeping – which is universally impossible anyway. The animal sacrificial system provided, provisionally, this grace-way in the OT, based upon the shed “blood of the (future) everlasting covenant.”
Islamic law is similar in some respects to the Mosaic Law, but some of it is based upon Arabic tribal influences and harsh applications of law. In that sense, it is NOT true biblical Law. So, not only is it a false law system, but it offers NO atonement for sins, which is absolutely requisite in both Testaments. It is this grace-less legalism that is the source of the mindless killings in Iraq, of women’s oppression and the hacking off of head and hands, ad nauseam.
The Muslims do have a much better understanding of the importance of spiritual law than our chaotic post-Christian Western humanists. They are understandably disgusted with the wretched corruption of America and the West, which has abandoned both God’s Law His Gospel. And the attraction that Islam has to post-Christian Europe and America is the intrinsic understanding that divine Law and spiritual authority is essential to both sanity and social order; the lack of which is having is grievous consequences in our Western world.

American, and the West, has become a by-word (I Kings 9:7) to the peoples of the earth; and God’s judgments are upon us. The solution is NOT more troops in Iraq; it is more Truth and the Rock – God’s perfect, life-giving Truth and Gospel. Guns and tanks and high-tech weaponry will not deliver us from our national soul sickness, nor the wages of our sins.
I do not at all hate Muslims (or anyone), even though I reject their religious system; but rather, I love them with the love of Christ, and pray for their redemption in Messiah. I do not want to legally silence them or curtail their right to legitimate religious worship and practice. It is a sad thing, however, that Islam is so legalistically driven to take control, not by Gospel persuasion, but by cultural high jacking, as the article and other reports verify so clearly.
If we don’t return to God through believing the Gospel and honoring the Law of God throughout our culture, we will either fall prey to Islamist legalism or humanistic disintegration. God grant us true revival and a return to the Faith of our fathers.

Getting back to the original topic -- isn't it odd that some folks get all upset over cabbies who refuse to do their job for religious reasons, but many of those same folks have no problem at all with pharmacists who do the same thing with contrceptives?

Eric:

If I misunderstood you, I'm sorry.

However,if Christians are following a process that is constitutionally protected, I fail to see how that is "intrusive and domineering". It merely sounds like the democratic process in action. Sometimes your side wins, sometimes it loses. Isn't that the way it should work in the marketplace of ideas?

When someone tries to restrict my access to reading material (for instance), that is "intrusive" and "domineering." Same with folks snooping around my bedroom, checking to see if I am loving the sort of adult they approve of. So you think that's an acceptable sort of attitude, do you?

Eric:

Are you saying it's wrong for a person to try to force his (or hers) views on someone else?

ECUMAN, it sort of looks bad if a person responds to a question with a question, particularly if it looks like an effort to deflect the subject under discussion. Is there some reason that you can't respond to my question above?

Eric:

I'm just trying to find out if there is a point to your assertions or do you just want to bash or ridicule Christians?

I seriously doubt anyone snoops around in your bedroom, but I don't know where you live so I don't know for sure!

The real point of the discussion is that the Muslims are coming into an already established culture with the INTENTION of muscling every conceivable practice or law their way. They EXPECT us to bow to their rules and ways. They have no intention whatsoever of assimilating; merely to take every opportunity to force accommodations. They're just looking for any way they can to manipulate the bleeding-heart liberal establishment to their advantage.

On the other hand, Christ and the Apostles taught consistently that the world would oppose itself to Christ’s Church and teachings, but that the Kingdom of Messiah would eventually embrace every nation and people. As Jesus said, "All authority is given unto me in heaven and earth." The difference between Islam and Christianity is that the way of Christ’s ascendancy is the way of the Prince of Peace, who commanded his followers to love those who hate them and to pray for those who abused them, etc. Any departure historically from this MO is a total contradiction and departure from the teachings of Christ and the Apostles. Islam was born in violence, grew in violence and continues today, predictably, through violence.

So, as far as the pharmacists are concerned, they are simply exercising their American rights, as their forefathers did before them. This nation was born in a Christian context, grew in it, and still has a substantial Christian influence. Buddhists, Sikhs, Hindus, et al. all have their communities and welcome all who want to follow their ways, but radical jihadist Islam is a brazen and assertive force that intends not simply to worship and practice in their own communities, but believe that every culture must cow before their demands – or else. They see every Muslim home and neighborhood as a staging area for aggressive take-over of the entire nation, wherever they are.

So, John, there is a tremendous difference between moral and cultural debate, and legal and political confrontation within our longstanding Scripture-based culture, and the continuing onslaught of jihadism. But, as I have said elsewhere, there will always be conflict between religio-legal systems, for only ONE can truly predominate. Nations and cultures are just that way. Humanism and true Christianity are totally disparate and competing law-systems. But, as it says in Revelation, “The Kingdoms of this world have become the Kingdom of our God and of his Messiah.” And, in the words of O Holy Night, “His law is love and his Gospel is peace.”

"I'm just trying to find out if there is a point to your assertions or do you just want to bash or ridicule Christians?"

You say that as if you think Christianity should be above criticism, or as if you think my statements are unfair in some way. I'll remind you that you asked me why I said that Christians act intrusively and in a domineering fashion. I responded to your question -- that's the point to my statements.

I also note that you still haven't responded to my question above.

"I seriously doubt anyone snoops around in your bedroom, but I don't know where you live so I don't know for sure!"

I'm sure you're intelligent enough to understand the sense with which my statements were used. After all, you're ECU-man! {;-)

Eric:

You initially brought up the statements about Christians so it's your job to defend those statements, not mine to respond. You painted with a broad brush. I was merely asking questions to find out what you believe and why you believe it.

Also, I'm not about to defend some things that Christians do that are indefensible. I would hope you would not defend everything atheists or skeptics do that are either wrong or wrong-headed. Sometimes Christians do somethings that are well-intentioned, but wrong-headed (not wise or use the wrong approach). I'm no fan of Jerry Fallwell or Pat Robertson. They are vocal, but generally not very effective in advancing the cause of Christ in the media in my opinion. Apparently, they are about the only people the news media have on their Roledex when religious or moral issues are in the news.

I hope you don't mind answering a personal question. I know from previous posts that you are married, but do you have any children?

"Also, I'm not about to defend some things that Christians do that are indefensible."

That's cool. I appreciate and respect your response here.

"I hope you don't mind answering a personal question. I know from previous posts that you are married, but do you have any children?"

I have one child. Well, an adult son. I'm very proud of him and he's one of my best friends. Why?

Eric:

That's cool. I have a 14 year-old son and a 12-year old daughter. I hope we'll be close friends when they are older as well.

I was just looking for a point of reference and to get to know you better.

Another thought -- I heard a story recently of a fellow who was a contractor in Saudi Arabia. He was arrested for drinkning from a bottle of water during the day in the middle of Ramadan. I wonder if these cab-driving zealots are planning to ban anyone from their cabs during Ramadan if they're carrying a breatkfast bagel or a cup of coffee with them? Someone needs to find out before next winter, I think.