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A Wiccan site unapologetically declares in an ad blurb: “Wicca store and Witchcraft supplies for the Pagan-minded. Our enchantments include the finest in candles, spell crafting supplies, hand dipped incense, sabbat supplies, witchcraft and occult books and more.”

They may try to distance themselves from the devil, per se; but it’s still self-consciously connected with witchcraft, spell casting, and other occult machinations. It is truly shameful that we have come to the place where witchcraft is seen as “religious” in any true sense.

But it’s really just par for the course in our relativistic, neo-pagan, culture; spurred on by humanistic, anti-Christian judges. We are storing up judgment for ourselves big time. And it WILL come – more than it has already - because there is only one true and living God, and one Messiah, the Savior of the world. All else is false and pagan, and an affront to God’s glory. Unless we repent, it will be for America as it was for the nations of old - when their “cup of iniquity” was full, God’s sure judgments came upon them – swiftly and irreversibly. The godless and the false religionists are compelled by their spiritual darkness and rebellion to press for the dishonor and disenfranchisement of Messiah and His Ekklesía. Psalm 2 vividly prophesies their fate:

1: Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2: The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3: Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4: He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5: Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6: Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7: I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8: Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9: Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10: Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye JUDGES of the earth.
11: Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12: Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Christ’s victory is already won; it’s just a matter of time when the implications thereof are made manifest. It is not for Christians to strive and win themselves: God will consummate history and execute his judgments accordingly. “It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.” (Heb. 10:31) If that was addressed to the Church, what of the godless and unbelieving? As with Israel, we also will disintegrate from moral rot within, and our enemies will assault us from without. 9/11 was just a shot across the bow.

"It is truly shameful that we have come to the place where witchcraft is seen as “religious” in any true sense."

It's as much a religion as any other, Nikos, and it means as much to the soldiers and their families as your beliefs mean to you. If you can't respect the beliefs of these people who fought and died hoping to protect your freedom of religion, the least you can do is keep from calling them names. It would be a small, decent thing to do, IMO.

"All else is false and pagan, and an affront to God’s glory."

So if Nikos was in charge, the only emblem that could be allowed on any soldier's grave would be a cross? I hope you're grateful that there are thousands of soldiers out there who have more respect for you than you have for them. I'd urge you to be ashamed of yourself, but I know better than to think it possible.

Actually, the culture isn't humanist enough. If it were, there would be far fewer religious symbols of any sort. I am with Goya on Wicca; but he, like most true humanists (secularists), was equally affronted by the ignorance of "mainstream" religion.

That said, in a pluralistic society, I can see no good compelling reason why the neighboring corpse of another valiant fallen hero should care which emblem is above his comrade's tomb; especially as the Wiccan may well ahve saved many of his buddies in the act of giving his life for his country.

If people like Nikos were in charge, we would have a christian theocracy burning witches at the stake. Any anti-christian thoughts would be a crime.

"Actually, the culture isn't humanist enough. If it were, there would be far fewer religious symbols of any sort.".............
i could care less which symbol you put on your headstone, but it sounds like FN is just the same as what Nikos is being accused of !?
imo Nikos is intelligent enough to understand that most of what is transpiring today is simply fulfillment of prophesy......yet he also seems to know that in the face of that, that Christians don't just throw in the towel. Nikos you voice is sorely needed in the world which we live.

And Nikos is ever so lucky to have a group of loyal yes-men.

What is it Nikos is being accused of that you think I am, Buz?

My point was that if there were in fact such the secular humanist conspiracy out there Nikos and others bewail, there wouldn't be symbols on headstones...not because secularist would impose some sort of ban, but because secular humanism, or just good ol' humanism itself, would convince the vast majority they simply didn't need headstones, let alone symbols on them.

"And Nikos is ever so lucky to have a group of loyal yes-men."......fairly immature of you FN.

"If people like Nikos were in charge, we would have a christian theocracy........"

and if FN had it his way (we all become humanist) "there would be far less religious symbols......."

rsnake comments that if Nikos (i.e. Christian) had it his way.....FN says if humanist (FN) had it their way....well don't you see some parallel ? that is what i meant about nikos being accused.

FN why does it grate you the wrong way that i agree with nikos theology ? i personally believe he has been provided revelation, just as many other Christian would also and have, if they studied to show themselves approved and sought the counsel of the Holy Spirit. Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.

Except I never said I thought it would be good and preferable IF the humanist view usurped the theist's. I am fine with letting anyone who wants have whatever symbols they like on the stone of a departed relative. The point was how absurd such ceremonies seem to many humanists, and thus why there might be less overall if there were more humanists. But there is no conspiracy to ban them outright. Absurd.

The thing that separates humanists of the classical bent from Christians is, we don't proselytize. We may seek to reach rational agreement. But we don't intend to convert and certainly never to threaten with divine retribution, etc.

Or use little, condescending, covert threats like "Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting." Give me a break.

No humanist is his right mind would ever want so-called revelation: that means not thinking for oneself.

Christians proselytize because Jesus requires that of us and it would be to your benefit(according to Gods word) to be converted. i'm not surprised that you find Gods word condescending and threatening. it is unfortunate that you believe that any Christian who receives reveleation from God automatically is classified as a non thinker. i would assume that you have never taken anyone elses advice on anything....for surely if you had you would undoubtedly have to call yourself a non thinker....hmmmmm

" and it would be to your benefit(according to Gods word) to be converted."

The qu'ran says the same thing.

"any Christian who receives reveleation from God"

The funny thing about "revelation" is that it's only a revelation to the person supposedly receiving it. To everyone else it's only second hand information, dubious information at best and no one is obligated to beLIEve it.

Claiming to receive "knowledge" via divine revelation is a far cry from taking someone else's researched or tested opinion on something, especially when the chance to observe using similar experimental/empirical methods is available.

I did not say all Christians/believers in revelation are non-thinkers all the time; but when they rely on claims of divinely-revealed doctrine and specious logic, that doesn't bode well for free thought. A lot of their daily lives, I assume, these same people do think perfectly rationally.

It's the finger-wagging tone that made the quote you used sound condescending.

For starters, Buz is no “yes man.” We have disagreed on things in the past, and I’m sure we do not see eye to on all the details of theology. But we do have the inner oneness of the Spirit, and the unity of biblical authority. And besides, you humanist/atheist dudes have certainly sounded like yes men to me at times. But it’s simply not worth pursuing.

I understand what you guys are saying about a brave soldier, who gave it all, deserving to have whatever symbol he wants on his headstone. At the same time, I perceive that the Wiccans are also using patriotic feelings to muscle their way in on this issue. So it is not just that an occult symbol is engraved a few fallen soldiers’ grave markers, it is the larger, non-personal meaning of it in regard to our society as a whole that gives me grave concern.

Yes, of course, I would prefer that this nation, and all nations, be fully and totally Messianic. (Just as you guys would prefer that it be religion-free and God-free.) But I know full well that that is not going to happen any time soon. But it WILL happen, because the Word of God declares that it will - unequivocally. “Thy Kingdom come on earth . . .” was no idle musing of Jesus, but a perfect prayer from the heart of the Son to the Father; and it will be answered.

Kingdoms and nations have embraced idolatry, sexual perversion and all manner of godless ideas and practices over the centuries – and God has judged them ALL. Where is great Babylon? or Rome, Nazi Germany, Marxist USSR, et al. And America is on the brink of disastrous ruin, unless it turns, in repentance, to the living God of her fathers, and lives in obedience to His perfect Law. We have let the corrosive effects of sin and lawlessness pervade every aspect of our culture, and are even now reaping the terrible harvest thereof: in our streets, our prisons, our elementary schools and colleges – just for starters.

To approve of witchcraft, which the Scriptures condemn throughout, is part of the last few drops in our “cup of iniquity” – along with same-sex marriage, abortion and disgustingly corrupt media and arts. That’s what bothers me – not the scratching of a pentagram on a gravestone. Anything that denies God and promotes disobedience to His divine Law/Word moves us closer to judgment. Whether we will collapse from within, or be blown apart from without is an open question. The enemy is working relentlessly in both venues.

But, “Let God arise and His enemies be scattered.” There is still hope for America, but not in our political system, or our money, or our Constitution. The dilemma is not in that realm: it is in the hearts and minds of people. If a nation reaches the critical mass of unbelief and corruption before there is revival and a return to God, its fate is sealed. Let us pray, arfently, that America is a Nineveh, and not a Sodom and Gomorrah. Kyrie eleison!

No, actually, I don't prefer the country to be entirely religion-free. That would be boring. We need a variety of viewpoints. Our government must steer clear of endorsing religion, though.

You certainly are entitled to believe your prophecies, Nikos. But it looks increasingly as if that quite non-Christian natio of China will be the leader in years to come. And India, too. If Taoist and Buddhist ideas become enculturated world-wide, that may be an interesting change of pace.

Actually the Church is alive and well in China and growing at a very fast pace. In fact, the Church is much more robust and comitted in the third world than in the effete and irrepigious West.

I am very glad that it is God who will established His Kingdom and exalt His Messianic King. It is a divine thing, not a humanly contrived and implemented plan. In fact, the Kingdom will come on earth as it is in heaven, despite the Church, not because of it - at least the way it looks now - at least in decadent America.

My bet is that the indigenous beliefs of Confucianism, Buddhism and Taoism will remian and once more come to the fore in China.
Just as the vast majority of Westerners will never "get" Eastern religion, the Asiatic religions and philosophies are far more in tune with the cultures of their creation.

Not that I think that is any better or worse than the irrationalities of Christian systems. We are all doomed to our limited absurd perspectives on many things. So, rant on. Perhaps Reason itself is equally absurd, eh?

FN,
"Just as the vast majority of Westerners will never "get" Eastern religion......" - what you are failing to understand is that it is not about 'getting' religion - it is about 'knowing' Jesus Christ. you choose not to believe and i chose to believe - one of us is right and one of us is wrong and as for me i will live my life by the precepts that Jesus taught and fully expect Him to keep His word - i will not be disappointed !!

God asked Job this :
4 "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell me, if you know so much. 5 Do you know how its dimensions were determined and who did the surveying? 6 What supports its foundations, and who laid its cornerstone 7 as the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?
8 "Who defined the boundaries of the sea as it burst from the womb, 9 and as I clothed it with clouds and thick darkness? 10 For I locked it behind barred gates, limiting its shores. 11 I said, `Thus far and no farther will you come. Here your proud waves must stop!'
12 "Have you ever commanded the morning to appear and caused the dawn to rise in the east? 13 Have you ever told the daylight to spread to the ends of the earth, to bring an end to the night's wickedness? 14 For the features of the earth take shape as the light approaches, and the dawn is robed in red. 15 The light disturbs the haunts of the wicked, and it stops the arm that is raised in violence.
16 "Have you explored the springs from which the seas come? Have you walked about and explored their depths? 17 Do you know where the gates of death are located? Have you seen the gates of utter gloom? 18 Do you realize the extent of the earth? Tell me about it if you know!
19 "Where does the light come from, and where does the darkness go? 20 Can you take it to its home? Do you know how to get there? 21 But of course you know all this! For you were born before it was all created, and you are so very experienced!
22 "Have you visited the treasuries of the snow? Have you seen where the hail is made and stored? 23 I have reserved it for the time of trouble, for the day of battle and war. 24 Where is the path to the origin of light? Where is the home of the east wind?
25 "Who created a channel for the torrents of rain? Who laid out the path for the lightning? 26 Who makes the rain fall on barren land, in a desert where no one lives? 27 Who sends the rain that satisfies the parched ground and makes the tender grass spring up?
28 "Does the rain have a father? Where does dew come from? 29 Who is the mother of the ice? Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens? 30 For the water turns to ice as hard as rock, and the surface of the water freezes.
31 "Can you hold back the movements of the stars? Are you able to restrain the Pleiades or Orion? 32 Can you ensure the proper sequence of the seasons or guide the constellation of the Bear with her cubs across the heavens? 33 Do you know the laws of the universe and how God rules the earth?
34 "Can you shout to the clouds and make it rain? 35 Can you make lightning appear and cause it to strike as you direct it? 36 Who gives intuition and instinct? 37 Who is wise enough to count all the clouds? Who can tilt the water jars of heaven, 38 turning the dry dust to clumps of mud?
39 "Can you stalk prey for a lioness and satisfy the young lions' appetites 40 as they lie in their dens or crouch in the thicket? 41 Who provides food for the ravens when their young cry out to God as they wander about in hunger?

how we as mere human can think we are so smart, when we can't answer the easy questions that God might ask of us !?

It's not about thinking we are "so smart"; it's about thinking.

Which includes making errors in thinking, but then using logic and evidence to correct it.