News-Record.com

Interesting letter to the editor today on the subject, and a number of very good responses. I think that the central point here is that our society must have a level of trust in the fair operation of the system of justice. Once that trust is lost, the system becomes meaningless.

Doubtless, this very issue is at the heart of a lot of social problems we see today anyway.

What is never mentioned, or dealt with, in the media is the fact that there would have been no incident if the Duke lacrosse team members had not been doing something wrong and sinful. This is because our society does not see what they were involved in as sinful. It was; and they, hopefully, will come to see that the wages of sin is death - death meaning negative, life-damaging impact on so many. It's a classic case of "if you play with fire you WILL get burned." Their legal victory will not absolve them of their sin. Only repentance before God can do that. But the temporal effects cannot be erdicated - only ammended - by livng in grace and righteousness.

It certainly isn't dealt with that these athletes were a wild bunch to begin with, but it has been mentioned a fair amount. I really can't understand why it was that the D.A. didn't see to it that there were charges relating to underage drinking and disturbing the peace of the neighborhood, for instance.

Just on account of those facts, regardless of the assault and rape charges, I think it was a good idea for the coach to be forced out... he certainly failed to exercise the discipline needed with a team -- especially one that was just starting its playing season. I mean, one could understand having a party to celebrate a successful season, but having one with illegal activities when the team needs the greatest amount of discipline? Um -- no.

I agree Eric, I didn't understand why he bring several of them into custody on those matters to begin with. If you look at Coach K's program, you'll see that its a pretty tight ship. If you're caught drinking at a party it means you're in big trouble - probably won't play for a game or two. If the Duke b-ball team ever had a party with drinking and strippers it would be a huge shock and coach k would bring down the hammer hard.

Although these kids were horribly mistreated by the legal system, they exhibited deplorable behavior. Let's not forget the chilling e-mail they found where one guy joked about sodomizing the strippers with a broomstick. It is uncontested that they were taunting these strippers with racial slurs and generally slanderous comments that a respectable gentleman should never even think, much less say to a woman. I hope this matter awakens the program up to discourage this type behavior. College sports should be about teaching respect and character - something most of lacrosse team members seem to never have learned.

I suppose its best that this situation be resolved quickly and without further ado. Nifong did rape victims across the country a huge disservice. He is better off disbarred. However, he was truly in a no-win situation. He would probably have been fired if he brought no charges given the level of race-baiting going on by Sharpton et al. Now that he did bring charges he's disbarred. However, his job was to see to justice, and he failed miserably. There is no excuse for that.

One can only hope that we've learned not to jump the gun - no matter how shameful the defendant seems, they are innocent until proven guilty.

We all acknowledge the reprehensible nature of the team's behavior. But WHY is it reprehensible? If there is no absolute truth (moral as well as philosophical) then perhaps they were just seeing things from their perspective, and deemed morally acceptable; good even.

In order to avoid moral chaos and ruin we HAVE to agree to some kind of moral ubiquity and consistency. And I think we ALL are seeing moral failures to this affair. The original moral breech was when two or three of the team members started throwing out the idea of hving a big bash, with alcohol and strippers. Thus a chain of events was begun which resulted in many people being hurt, in many ways, for amny years to come.

It is interesting to me that humanists are so big on moral relativism when trying to force a particular moral behavior on the public, such as gay marriage; but when something like the Duke Lacrosse Team affiar occurs, we ALL, Christians and Humanists, agree on the ethical and moral wrongness of their behavior. Hmm.

I believe it is because it is so crystal clear that "moral transgressions" (sins) occurred. If one asserts that maybe in another time and place, it might be OK to express racial taunts, and suggest horrendous sexual acts, we are pulling the rug completely out from under any viable assertion that it is "wrong." If it is excusable in one instance, it could very well be excusable in any number of others; inclining people to much more easily transgress; which seems to be the case in our culture today. Anything goes it seems.

When viewed honestly there are just a plethora of moral transgressions that occur alomst every day that any decent person would deem wrong - sinful; rape, murder, terroist bombing of innocent children, corporate decpetion, congressional crimes, stealing, spousal abuse, child abuse, et al.

This phonomenon is called in Scripture, "the law of God written on thier hearts." (Romans 2. 12-15)- or theologically, natural law. The Decalogue is simply a categorial, divinely sanctioned, statement of the absolute moral Law built into the very core of our being - all people, everywhere; and rightly connecting it to the God who formed the moral as well as the physical universe. In other words, without a supreme and absolute Law-giver, no reliable and consistent knowldege of right and wrong is possible. It's each man for himself, to each his own, situational ethics - chaos!

My point: that, unless we begin to ackowledge the ubiquity and absolute nature of the moral Law, we will never beging to teach our kids, with any sense of authority, to order their thoughts and lives according to its precepts; we'll have more school yard massacres, cheating on tests, collegiate binge drinking, mass murders, unwanted pregnancies, and all the other destructive behavior that afflicts our ailing culture, and is a shame to the world - even as the nations despised Israel when she departed from the living God and reaped the whirlwind of her sins.

It never ceases to amaze me that 9/11, Va. Tech, and Columbine, were apparently not enough to convince naysayers that there is moral evil, and that the moral good is readily apparent, universal and absolute - and also the rationalizations of unbelief. I guess only Light dispels darkness.

But I'm glad we can agree that the boys were naughty, and culpable; even though we may not agree on the source of our moral authority.

"But I'm glad we can agree that the boys were naughty, and culpable.."

WHICH boys, specifically were naughty? The team? Only the three accused? The team, minus some members?
I'm waiting for the answer. Feel free to state exactly whom you mean.

"But I'm glad we can agree that the boys were naughty, and culpable.."

WHICH boys, specifically were naughty? The team? Only the three accused? The team, minus some members?
And what were the three accused "culpable" for?
I'm waiting for the answer. Feel free to state exactly whom and what you mean.

Alice, do you ever make sense? I think anyone with a modicum of common sense can tell what and whom we're talking about. If you want I can hold your hand and walk you through the above posts, but maybe just reading them would suffice. Let me know if you need help understanding what we're talking about after reading the above posts and I'll help you through it.

Yes, Nikos, honey- PLEASE hold my hand. Just don't lust in your little heart while doing so.
I want an explaination- which boysin your opinion, are the naughty boys here?
Again, did you mean the whole team, just the accused players, all Duke students or ???
I'd love to know.

paragigm,
i think alice's last post proves your point that she doesn't comprehend well. apparently she believes nikos posted the "hold your hand comment". ever notice she always seems to be in the attack mode rather than simply dialoging.
here is your answer ....ALL BOYS ARE NAUGHTY !!

Buz, I have no difficulty comprehending that neither you nor Nikos wish to directly answer questions and that you both appear to be very facile at reinterpreting the plain meaning of both scripture ( " Love one another" and biblical concepts/ laws such as " Thou shall not kill" to suit your own beliefs and agendas.

Why don't either of you answer the question regarding who you believe were "naughty" rather than making a snippy " all boys are naughty" retort?

Oh geez, look, Alice, its not a big deal. From the evidence I've seen and from stories I've heard from Duke grads, the ENTIRE team's behavior has been deplorable under the x-coach. In the night of the "incident" it would appear that the lacrosse team (minus those not in attendance)was acting with bad taste and downright "naughty" behavior. I just don't see why you couldn't tell that from Eric, Nikos and my posts.

As for "thou shalt not kill" - show me where that verse appears in the bible. As for love your enemies, well, what's your point?

paradigm,
i believe alice can only mimic what she has heard someone else say concerning scripture - as i've said before, she neither knows the word of God nor the power it contains - thus she say "thou shalt not kill" instead of what scripture actually says. when life is approached solely through human logic, i believe they miss the 'heart' of God.

and alice let me state is more clearly...when i said "ALL BOYS ARE NAUGHTY !!".....this is what i actually meant.... "Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"...i.e. ALL BOYS ARE NAUGHTY. hope that helps clarify it for you.

If we are wanting the coach or the administration to curtail the "naughty" behavior of out-of-control, partying collegiates, we are saying that lustful/sinful actions DO indeed exist, and need to be reigned-in by authorities. This is the consistent teaching of the Word of God - from the sanctions of the Law, Proverbs, the Prophets acting to curtail royal and national transgressions, to the NT teachings of Paul in Romans 13.

Sin, if left unchecked, will always bear the bitter fruit of personal ruin, guilt and suffering. In short, "the wages of sin is death." From what I've seen in the news clips of the young men involved, and the woman as well; there is more than enough pain and suffering (spiritual death) to go around. If they had been having a friendly evening together with their dates, treating them as young ladies, and controled to no drinking, there would have been no problem.

We have lost the art of pleasnt and cultured conversation, desirable courtship, and honorable behavior. Just reviewing our movie fare is ample illustration how degraded and corrupt we have become. The "sexual revolution" has robbed us of this, and so much more. We have little knowledge today of the "peaceable fruit of righteousness.